Not proud of your predictive abilities, or not proud of reading the Herald?

A lot of both? :) But at the risk of sounding like a pretentious wank, trying to rationally engage with the very special world Winston Raymond Peters lives in does not put my head in a good…

(A disturbing proportion of which I predicted before reading the Herald this morning. Which I'm not proud of.)

Not proud of your predictive abilities, or not proud of reading the Herald?

I'm not having a dig at Russell at all. I'm having a dig at PAS readers. I'm honestly surprised no-one has anything to say. Are you all Labour stooges?

Nah, my standing Wednesday night down the pub quiz at the local (we won again, BTW) or trying to make sense…

Graeme!!?? I understood (maybe) that now the ETS bill is passed, there's no more chance for a vote of no confidence & they're home & hosed. Or is that not until parliament stops sitting?

David Farrar has a post on the issue. Crux quote:

Some people think that just because no formal…

Link to Gordon Campbell's summary of Peters' rebuttal viz Glenn.
I haven't heard radio or read the Herald front page today, so hadn't caught up with whether Winnie still rides.

The whole thing seems like a circus sideshow to me, i keep wondering wtf else is going on.

Heh, New Zealand's own version of the West Lothian Question?

I really want to bring Crichel Down into this conversation but I cannot find a way.
One day I will get a chance to use my A level in Government and Political Studies.

which would

Graeme!!?? I understood (maybe) that now the ETS bill is passed, there's no more chance for a vote of no confidence & they're home & hosed. Or is that not until parliament stops sitting?

To summarise I guess: I dunno.

But a spurned Peters /NZ First is highly likely to decide to withdraw from the coalition.... which would.

Lets go back a week or two...
Glen " I met Mr Peters at karaka sales in 2006"
Peters "no you didnt, that was 2007"

Now, apparently Peters…

Or are we all just following my mothers advice: if you haven't got anything nice to say, say nothing?

What's there to say? Anti-climax. Predictable anti-climax. Until next week perhaps.

Are you all Labour stooges?

Only craig as far as I can tell. Maybe Damian.

Is everyone waiting for Russell to come down on high with tablets of stone? Sorry to disappoint you but today he's talking about the Silver Scrolls

Um, because he was there last night and not up to speed enough to offer informed comment? Occam's Razor, chap.

Is everyone waiting for Russell to come down on high with tablets of stone? Sorry to disappoint you but today…

To be blunt, ... what the hell made Glenn think he was that special?

Five hundred MILLION dollars, that's what. Plus another 100k to help Winston, to help Labour.

In fact I sentence him to be locked in a ships hold with…. Michael Cullen I get the feeling they deserve each…

It's online now (I assume Craig means the 9/11 "joke"?). .

Yeah — was my original link broken? Anyway, in a weird way it hit me like Trotter and Coddington reaching for the gang rape analogies. Lazy thinking that leads to trivialising some things (sexual violence and the murder of…

And for anyone who doesn't get the print version of the New Zealand Herald, I think the only sane and decent response to Rod Emmerson's effort today is to quote John Waters: "One must remember that there is such a thing as good bad taste and bad bad taste."

It's…

Glenn himself has given a vivid case study that he wasn't too sentimental when it came to defending his honesty and/or mental acuity.

And IMHO gone a little bit beyond that, rather overplaying his wounded integrity (lets not forget this guy is a very successful businessman) and acting a bit…

So basically, the list/electorate balance is never revisited after the election?

Which means also that if a party (as might have happened) misses threshold and has no MPs, then one of their members gets elected at a byelection somehow, they only get the electorate MP, not the list ones.

Yes.…

Today, I…

With respect, Craig, that's ridiculous – Dyson and Dalziel humiliated themselves through drink-driving and lying, respectively.

I don't disagree with you, and I'm certainly not saying Clark was wrong to give them the sack. (Though I'm not sure I'd have had them back but that's a whole other sidebar.) But…

o be blunt, if Clark is willing to very publicly humiliate personal friends and political allies like Ruth Dyson and Lianne Dalziel when needs must, what the hell made Glenn think he was that special?

With respect, Craig, that's ridiculous – Dyson and Dalziel humiliated themselves through drink-driving and lying,…

Do I hear the sound of someone who didn’t get his bauble

I don't think so, but politics is full of people who've been very successful in one sphere and (how to put it politely?) find they on a whole new food chain — and not at the top. To…

But these quotes nicked verbatim from the herald tell me more about Owen Glenn than I would want to know.

Two rounds of press and then the privileges committee and we get…

Heh, New Zealand's own version of the West Lothian Question?

Oh, goody, something else that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to my tiny little brain. :) But seriously, I really do think Sharples fronts the MSM more than Turia for a pretty obvious reason — he's media savvy,…

Meanwhile, I'd be quite happy with that if the Maori Party caucus stopped voting on legislation that affects we tauiwi.

Heh, New Zealand's own version of the West Lothian Question?

Turia doesn't do 'Pakeha' media on the fairly sensible grounds that we don't vote for her.

Thank you Governor Palin. :) Meanwhile, I'd be quite happy with that if the Maori Party caucus stopped voting on legislation that affects we tauiwi. To be quite cynical about it, I suspect Pita…

Might be a douche but can be pretty funny at times...

Gareth, there's good linguistic change afoot. Consider reconsidering.

How would one say "the first Mrs Rochester" in Te Reo?

Te wahine Hoheta tuatahi (to mangle the transliteration)? :P

There would have been a by-election. Clarkson is an electorate candidate, he'd have lost his electorate seat. National would be one person down while waiting for the by-election, and would have stayed one-person if they'd lost the by-election.

So basically, the list/electorate balance is never revisited after the election?

Which…

I’ve got a major problem with it DC.

I also don’t like the implication in all of this that this Maori media do not need to apply the same kind of rigour in their questioning.

I’m not saying that’s the case, but the inference is there for those who may…

I also don’t like the implication in all of this that this Maori media do not need to apply the same kind of rigour in their questioning.

I’m not saying that’s the case, but the inference is there for those who may…

Turia doesn't do 'Pakeha' media on the fairly sensible grounds that we don't vote for her.

Actually, the more I think about this, the more it's problematic. She's set to be the leader of the 4th largest party in Parliament ... and she won't speak to the general media. She…

We have not seen much of TT since she made this allegation.

Turia doesn't do 'Pakeha' media on the fairly sensible grounds that we don't vote for her. I'm told she's highly visible in the Maori media and she puts in a lot of legwork visiting various Marae.

Paul: but is it a "crisis" if the money has simply been prespent on things you don't wan tto spend it on, and which are politically very difficult to unravel? OK, for the donors and cronies, yes, but for the rest of us...?

Indeed. Bloody salaries for cleaners and the…

Sacha: they already are. It means for…

Labour's fiscal poison pill

Silly buggers will probably swallow it themselves going by current performance.

Mr Glenn denied meeting anyone from the Maori Party and said an allegation he'd offered it $250,000 was an "absolute fabrication".

OK, that's clear. But Tariana Turia's allegations 2 years ago were very serious. This was an attempt to persuade the Maori Party to go with Labour. So either she…

Meanwhile, looking away from the sideshow, National has just set itself up to claim a financial crisis if elected as a way around Labour's fiscal poison pill.

Gee, you mean Doctor Crippen... I mean, Cullen wasn't going to get away with poisoning quite as easily as he thought? Funny that...…

"and at the end of the day it seems that it boils down to a politician being a shade to economical with the truth. Given how out there in talkback land all politicians are assumed to be compulsive liars, what is all this fuss all about? "

word

"sir it's…

freon.3e.org descriptive text "Anesthetized monkeys exposed to 25,000 ppm or 50,000 ppm [of freon] for 5 minutes had [cardiac] [arrhythmia]s including [tachycardia] and decreased contractility (U.S. EPA 1983)" -->

Buggered if I know what the lat one means

It's all about freon

Sacha, I read Armstrong's piece also and thought it was pretty fair. I think his career is over and it was always going to be a train-wreck. The collateral damage is likely to be significant.

I agree, this started out a grubby affair but is about to turn really ugly.…

Speaking of the LHC – here is a technical site that is monitoring the powerup of the LHC and will indicate problems as they develop

That was brilliant! I had a quick squizz at the code and found these comments:

Buggered if I know what the lat one…

Is that one of them ambitious yoof gangs?

Anything's poss in tha hood.We are a diverse bunch:)

And apropos, the issue is to establish if said money was used for what it was intended and declared appropriately. Which has been suggested, it was .

A meeting away from disgrace
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10531367

Winston Peters is teetering on the brink. His three long decades in politics are just one short meeting of Parliament's privileges committee away from ending in abject disgrace…

That's the matter under consideration – not whether there was a donation.

Mt Roskill shipping tycoons

Is that one of them ambitious yoof gangs?

first require the Opposition to publish a coherent and meaningful set of alternative policies

But Paul, surely that's what Mallard is for? :)

Does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that Ron Mark will be the leader of NZF by the end of the week?

No. Any ordinary party, yes, but NZ First is a personalist party, and Winston is very much in control. Without him, they're nothing.

Still, sometimes it is better…

if Winston won the Tauranga seat then Labour's nemesis – the Nats – would have lost a seat in Parliament.

Under MMP?

No. It would've been their next list candidate in, rather than Bob Clarkson.

Graeme?!

Sorry – I was in a meeting :-)

There would have been a by-election.…

Sometimes a coherent and meaningful sentence appears to be beyond them.

And Clark seems to have put a little too much faith in a monosyllable.

Perhaps I've got it wrong Rik, but I thought the issue wasn't that Peters denied there had been a donation, but rather that he claimed…

So if she knew about it and watched Winston publicly declaring that it did not exist (ie. she knew he was lying) and then does nothing about it – what does that say about her ethics?

Perhaps I've got it wrong Rik, but I thought the issue wasn't that Peters…

Emma, don't you dare!

It's alright, Paul, all you have to do is put your name on the 'yes I'd like some kiddieporn' list.

As if Glenn would want to get rid of that Laura Ede…

Now that you mention it, I am getting tired of checking my own messages. An executive assistant or two wouldn't go astray.

... shaking my faith in a Labour-led government would first require the Opposition to publish a coherent and meaningful set of alternative policies...

Sometimes a coherent and meaningful sentence appears to be beyond them.

As if Glenn would want to get rid of that Laura Ede…

Paul I'll never read the phrase Large Hadron the same way again, thanks to Craig.

It is a big erection but...

I have a secret plan to get PA blocked in Australia. Craig doesn't know he's a Cylon yet.

Emma, don't you dare!

I'm interested to know what it would…

She knew about the donation, but she didn't necessarily know whether Winston Peters knew it about it did she?

So if she knew about it and watched Winston publicly declaring that it did not exist (ie. she knew he was lying) and then does nothing about it – what does…

Their maps are like a GIS with 7 layers, all visible at once, with a resulting mess.

Ha, excellent – never thought I'd see GIS concepts as political analogy.

I'm interested to know what it would take to shake the unbending faith that the author and a large number of the readers of this blog have in Helen Clark?
As reported in the Herald today, "Mr Glenn said by February this year the Prime Minister was fully aware of…

Sacha, I don't think Peter's has ever been a holier than thou crusader. he has been a populist, the last inheritor of Rob's mob, and the elites – like all political elites from Bangkok to Bainimarama – fear and loath the populist disturbing their cosy exercise of power.

Oh please,…

Is it really OK for Helen to sit back a stay quiet while she watches Winston Peters lying to the NZ public?

She knew about the donation, but she didn't necessarily know whether Winston Peters knew it about it did she?

I bet Winston forgot, or mis-remembered.

Rachel

What you suggest may have been possible but do you really think it was wise for him to use the grand-standing "NO" placard that he held up?

Perhaps if you plan to do something as definitive and un-retractable as that you think he…

I bet Winston forgot, or mis-remembered.

Yeah, maybe he has so many billionaires cutting him $100,000 dollar checks this one just slipped his mind.

As reported in the Herald today, "Mr Glenn said by February this year the Prime Minister was fully aware of…

I don't quite see why Glenn would want a Maori/Labour coalition. Since they had the support from NZ First (and National had zero chance of putting anything together), all it would do is make a Labour/Green/Maori government possible, which I doubt Glenn would be keen on?

Well, Rich, let's get…

But I am aware of way people constantly make assumptions like "she must have known", 'if you knew x you would do y", "You would remember that wouldn't you" or "you'd definitely ask more questions about that, wouldn't you".…

I am…

Craig doesn't know he's a Cylon yet.

Oh, I know I'm not a Cylon. Cylons are hot. (Yes, even the old guys. Remember my better half is older than Obama, but not that much younger than McCain.)

I, tragically, am not.

Unless he likes giving…

For a modest fee, I'll lower the tone of absolutely anything — Weddings. Funerals. Select Committee Hearings. :)

I have a secret plan to get PA blocked in Australia. Craig doesn't know he's a Cylon yet.

for the sake of Winston Bloody Peters.

Those claiming to be 'over' all this…

Paul I'll never read the phrase Large Hadron the same way again, thanks to Craig.

For a modest fee, I'll lower the tone of absolutely anything — Weddings. Funerals. Select Committee Hearings. :)

I reckon Labour's best play on this now will…

Instead he has been sloppy and arrogant, and his hypocrisy is charmlessly revealed.…

Sacha: I am not saying this Peter's business isn't a story but, well, it isn't a very big story.

I don't agree Tom. It mightn't compare with the Large Hadron Collider in terms of enduring significance or even with the risk that a McCain/Palin administration could overturn Roe v Wade,…

Given how incredibly tight the numbers in the house were for the last three years, Winston winning his seat through the courts would have been a massive coup for the Labour government.

This might be true but – and this was Russell's initial point as I understood it – the…

Given how out there in talkback land all politicians are assumed to be compulsive liars, what is all this fuss all about?

Well, TomS, call me a cock-eyed optimist but is it possible that we're not all as glibly cynical as Michael Laws and his drooling fanboys? And with good…

Under MMP?

Trivial point, but if Winston had won his case, wouldn't there have been a by-election in Tauranga rather than Winston being awarded the seat?

Graeme?!

I will add that Labour's actions since it has come to light in trying to shield Peters and deny it all look incredibly dodge. Once these things come up they should have been entirely upfront about any peripheral knowledge they did have...

But to be fair (you in the back,…

I don't think this is true: if Winston won the Tauranga seat then Labour's nemesis – the Nats – would have lost a seat in Parliament.

Under MMP?

No. It would've been their next list candidate in, rather than Bob Clarkson.

On your last point (the Maori Party issue) Kathryn Ryan asked the question at the end of her interview with Mr Glenn this morning. He categorically refuted it and said it was a lie.

What Sacha said, Jordan. To my mind, Glenn pretty convincingly refuted allegations made in the House…

I'm still not convinced about Labour's massive flaws in this Glenn business – the fact that the party president was asked by someone if they had objection…

Must admit to being a little bit sick of it.

Ditto.

I too wonder who is orchestrating all of this.The NZFirst parliamentary members must be feeling kinda sick and be updating their c.v's...

Sounds like Glenn is taking a parting shot at the PM and Williams in his Press conference this morning,

""Mr Williams is wrestling with the truth"... Don't we all?

I have been out of N.Z. for the last two and a half weeks – all I can say is there isn't a lot of news in this country.

Must admit to being a little bit sick of it, myself--most particularly with the Herald headlines and 'digitally enhanced' images.

If…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4687159a6160.html

They have been in an unenviable position. But it would be sadly ironic if they prove to have sacrificed their electoral fortunes for the sake of Winston Bloody Peters.

Well, perhaps both National and Labour have had to learn the hard way that when you lie down with that dog,…

This is what pisses me off – I really can't see them behaving this ineptly in their first or second terms. It's as…

But then, Winston Peters has been too.

Meh.