Sounds like he was ascribing being non-vaccination to me .......

Also I admit mistakenly REPEATING an urban myth regarding Samoans and the census ( which had…

Ross was making shit up about me

When? All I can see is that he compared your comment about your total lack of trust and respect for our "leaders" with a similar line coming from many who are against vaccination. He did not, as you claimed, actually state you personally…

Spot the difference ????????

Sacha's quite good at it too.

By sticking up for a mob you'll allways have numbers on your side ;-)

Who would have thought that the mild civil disobediance of not doing a census would result in such a wide range of insults.

You mean like "clown", "muppet" and "idiot"?

All insults you were happy to call Ross.

I call it mild civil disobediance.

And the things I heard you calling sacha was " irrelevant delusional clown", and" non-functioning pothead".

Thats quite a bit of extrapolation from your good self.

I suppose at…

Ignorance is one reason the world still needs change. You bring deficient reasoning here and you'll get called on it. Your cause deserves better.

upon re-reading the abuse that this thread has.

I think russel should re-name his site PublicKiwiAddressBlog.

Who would have thought that the mild civil disobediance of not doing a census would result in such a wide range of insults.

Anti-vaccination, paranoid, tin-hats, mocking, irrelevant, delusional, off…

Of course, but there are clear social benefits from the collection of the information, assuming one doesn't live in a true libertarian paradise[tm] where anything that you want is provided entirely at your expense and discretion.

Yes, there are clear social benefits from having everyone fingerprinted too. However, there are…

The hint is in my user name here

how does the census have anything to do with you growing pot?

Who said anything about pot? He's a Peter Grower.

I'll take a Piper, a Pan, a Jackson, a Sellers and one 'The Great', please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na2W38tLp_Q

.. unless said true libertarian paradise[tm] just put each child in their own learning pod and the pod travelled with the child to be clustered with other learning pods at whichever school happened to attract that child's parents' education dollar

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to…

Yup, but not as private as never even giving the information.

Of course, but there are clear social benefits from the collection of the information, assuming one doesn't live in a true libertarian paradise[tm] where anything that you want is provided entirely at your expense and discretion.

And I suspect…

TVNZ's complaints committee has upheld the flood of complaints over Paul Henry's questioning of Sir Anand Satyanand's ethnic suitability to be Governor-General, acknowledging his remarks "encourage discrimination".

That's pretty private, IMHO.

Yup, but not as private as never even giving the information.

That's part of the reason I won't fly through the USA. It's not that I'm a criminal, it's just that being fingerprinted is something I don't want done to me, like ever. I don't really…

As a point of interest, information gathered pursuant to the Statistics Act 1975 is considered to be so private that…

This rather proves that someone doesn't actually know anything about the government or state, wihich rather diminishes the power of his observations.

This'd be the perpetually whining Mr. grower, who started out with the name-calling ("muppet", "idiot"), immediately followed by the passive-aggressive "i do hope that the kiwi blog infection…

The Government ( or parliment if we want to split hairs )

This rather proves that someone doesn't actually know anything about the government or state, wihich rather diminishes…

Oh, unless you put down pot grower as your profession in the last census. But even then, Statistics NZ are not allowed to pass that on to the cops.)

Even IRD won't pass it on to the cops, unless you don't pay your tax (and good luck with that audit)

But... how does the census have anything to do with you growing pot? The census doesn't have anything to do with drug laws.

Which is a shame really, as it seems as good an avenue as any to determine NZers' drug use and attitudes.

Statistics NZ are not allowed to…

(Oh, unless you put down pot grower as your profession in the last census. But even then, Statistics NZ are not allowed to pass that on to the cops.)

Er, I get the distinct impression that the cops might already know what pot grower does hence the problem being conveyed,…

The Government ( or parliment if we want to split hairs ), call me a criminal, so does the "justice system".

There's certainly an argument to be had about de-criminalizing growing…

I'm sure the government could use info from our births registrar to determine primary school numbers. That and perhaps council information on which citys are growing or shrinking.

Many New Zealanders move house between when they are born and when they start school. And Councils get their demographic information from..…

My analogy was in relation to the criminilization of people like me.

The hint is in my user name here..........

The Government ( or parliment if we want to split hairs ), call me a criminal, so does the "justice system".

They bully and…

I have copys of my "life-time" drivers licence and a "life-time" fire-arms licence. Both of these were changed at the whim of the Government.

Oh, the humanity. Yes, that's exactly comparable to domestic violence. What an appropriate analogy.

Meanwhile, on this planet, [[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/education/news/article.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=10681109|government uses Statistics data to anticipate rise in demand…

Martin I have copys of my "life-time" drivers licence and a "life-time" fire-arms licence. Both of these were changed at the whim of the Government.

And its the whim of the Government which decides how confidential the census info is ......................

All three of those things are governed by legislation,…

And its the whim of the Government which decides how confidential the census info is ......................

The NZ govt, whether Nat or Labor has always…

The Sunday Star Times displays interesting postmodernist editorial standards with an interview/non-interview with Paul Henry a la Alice in Wonderland.

I did think that was about as blatant a case of not getting consent for an interview and printing it anyway as you could get. The whole thing stinks quite…

Census Confidentiality

But then again, you don't sound like you put too much faith in any government organisation.

Well done you lot ....................

Not doing a census is very mild civil disobediance .

Its not a crusade.

Now i do hope that…

I don't mind anyone deciding to dodge the Census, so long as they don't think that makes them some big crusading hero rather than an irrelevant delusional clown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtuPvwBa2U
"Don't push your politics on me, pal."

SST: Is there any chance that we could have a catch-up?

PH: Look, I really haven't got anything to say to be honest. I've made the decision that, unlike Chris…

If you want to change things, then do it. Holding your breath until you turn blue doesn't count.

And good to see kyle hold politicians in such honorable regard.

Actually no. I just decided that this has descended to the level of mocking you. Given the number of scientists and social scientists who work on the census, among other things.

I'm not paranoid .................... I'm just not gonna help the fuckers.

By remaining invisible you are of no consequence to them, they can't just look into the eyes of 4 million people and decide basic infrastructure and social policy, they (we) need to know what the population actually looks like…

Some other idiot thought my not doing a census made me anti-vaccination.

I'd like to hear how this govt applies science to drug policy, or education.

We'll see who's got the tin hat…

We will be back to full strength…

And good to see kyle hold politicians in such honorable regard.

Perhaps Kyle could give me some examples of this Govt baseing its laws and regulations on science and evidence.

.... cause I can give him multiple examples of…

those people who ignore science and evidence, who dog whistle, who pander to the mob

That's not tin foil in your hat, that's iron-y.

It's kinda sweet that you believe Steve, in a government ' genuinely trying to make the best decisions for the people'.

I didn’t say they act they way all the time, obviously, just there may be occasions when a government tries to implement a policy that’s good for society, albeit…

or as Onan said
Know thyself

Sofie, if the issue is politicians misusing stats, then addressing that makes sense.

Yes ,if I had that beef I'd complain in that direction. I'd also fill in the census cos I like to be involved if for nothing else than the right to do so. The likes of Peter…

To help them lie in a short simple sound bite.

'The bludgers are gonna cost us $50 billion and we cant afford it'.

Any Government dominated by the nats or labor ( which is all of…

There's no balance.

People are tricked and fooled.

Maybe, but I don't see what that's got to do with the census. There'll still be government spin and bias in media even without a census, and we'd lose a tool that can sometimes be used by government critics to show this.…

and your refusal will not make any useful difference there.

But he will feel better about himself and who are we to suggest statistics should be entered for benefit of the country when we do know the power that be, will skew whiff whatever is needed for the benefit of…

A recent example of such spin was the Nats claiming Welfare was going to cost 50 billion per year, if everybody on any…

How many "overstayers" facing deportation fill out census forms ?.…

In a statement, Sir John and Mr Ellis said they would be making no further comment.

Henry Fucking Kissinger

That's Henry Alfred Kissinger.
Common mistake.

Yasar Arafat for example.

Henry Fucking Kissinger.

Which does (admittedly in the face of some circumstantial evidence) suggest his claim about not knowing enough to talk was correct.

Or that he waited until after taking criticism, as per the Paul Henry thing. Both options are quite depressing.

Yasar Arafat for example.

Which some might also consider a bit sad.

our Census shows that there is twice as many Samoan woman living in Nz as Samoan males

You're completely wrong.

I found the numbers on the stats website (table 3).

Male: 64,530, Female: 66,573. Exactly what one would expect.

Do you have any more ignorance you'd like to share with…

It probably helps the Govt decide which minority it can scapegoat.

Btw the Statistics Dept actually has some very heavy regulations compelling New Zealanders to submit and comply with their invasion of our privacy.

Look! They've made a hat just for you.

What a clown.

What kind of muppet can draw a conclusion like that ??????.

Census .............. vaccination. Yeah those two issues are really really similar.

Back in the real world, I believe that our Census shows…

Another good article: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/10/exclusive-ari-neeman-qa/all/1

In chasing ratings and the advertising dollar they have bought into, and nurtured, the culture of hate. Hate is the new black, it seems. Bigotry, the hot new fashion accessory. Wear it anywhere. "Express Yourself" :(

Those Facebook comments on Paul Henry's support page sounded startlingly like the "Leb…

but denies any pressure from the Chinese government.

Which actually makes it worse. Appalling statement, or lack thereof. What a small, small man.

The Nobel Peace prize was just awarded to the Chinese writer and human rights activist Liu Xiaobo

John Key was just as weak and weaselly over the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1010/S00059/pms-presser-no-praise-for-jailed-nobel-winner.htm

John Key says he has no words of congratulation for a Chinese political prisoner who has won the year’s…

I think it was the shock of seeing my beloved country slapped down by my beloved Grauniad as much as anything. CRASH! Ouch!

...cos the world is sooo black or white, and NZ is just like the United States, eh.

I don’t see how that’s got much to do with it. Chapman’s mistake wasn’t in missing ‘shades of gray’, but in misunderstanding how the principle he advocated works. Also, in the US, people…

Have any of you guys watched the excellent BBC doco called "Century of the Self"? It's available online for free viewing.

That and other Adam Curtis films downloadable from archive.org.

...I'm sure, like most media bores, he thinks he's only saying what the country is thinking. So if that's the case, New Zealand, I'm sure your spring scenery is most jocund, but I've decided to stay at home.

Ouch, alright.

But weirdly placed...which is probably a good thing.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614#docid=6718420906413643126

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614#docid=-7139259509177310748

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614#docid=-6111922724894802811

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614#docid=1122532358497501036

Does he really print out every email, or have his PA do so for him?
Or perhaps Paul Henry's lawyer brought that stack in as a bargaining tool. Not that I'm implying he was pushed rather than choosing to jump.

No mention of what may be a complaints pile twice…

...I'm sure, like most media bores, he thinks he's only saying what the country is thinking. So if that's the case, New Zealand, I'm sure your spring…

I would like to acknowledge the thousands of Paul’s supporters who have contacted us and who will be disappointed at this outcome. I have a stack of emails on my desk fully 20cms high.

Does he really print out every email, or…

The principle of free speech is very simple: we either defend opinions that we find hateful, or we do not defend them at all. Public broadcasting or private.

Bollocks. This is conflating Freedom of speech with Obligation to provide a platform. It was tvNZ, rather than Radio Live or running…

He can say whatever he wants to and he won’t be arrested or imprisoned. That’s free speech. But it means everyone else gets to speak too – the version of free speech that Paul Henry’s defenders advocate is one in which he gets…

I think it is most unfair that the short, otherwise normal sized Governor General is not allowed to answer back in his own defence, to all these public insults.

I think it says a lot about Anand Satyanand's character that he has no interest in doing so. As far as…

And I live in a very multi-cultural city, diverse and wide, one which also includes the mythical census race , "The New Zealander",…

As a nation, we seriously need an informed discussion about this as part of our growing up.

I posted links to both a downloadable Word doc and…

BUT – there is – and always has been since the second wave of settlers happened- a truly venomous undercurrent of racial & class hatred -…

My rose-tinted view of my adopted country and my fellow Kiwis has taken a hell of a battering these past couple of weeks.

I'm pretty ashamed to be associated with them as fellow citizens right now.

And as for FB – well, I have a…

Hearing some ignorant, uncontextualised blather about "freedom of speech" – even from some surprising quarters like Wallace Chapman.

Yes. Surprising but well argued, I thought.

I'm flabbergasted by the support for Henry; so far I've seen pro-Henry comments on fb from people I know. This is shaping up to be…

The principle of free speech is very simple: we either defend opinions that we find hateful, or we do not defend them at all. Public broadcasting or private.

...cos the world is…

These are some comments from Paul Henry's fans, at his TVNZ affiliated Facebook page:

"October the 29th is international run down a rag head day all Indians killed or maimed will be eligible for points 1 point per male 2 points for females and 3 points for kids.”…

Actual figures were roughly:
Pepperell 9%, Yan…

ONe News should be interesting.
Top story? "Thousands of outraged Paul Henry fans".

Sorry; total fizzer.

Puckish? Give me a break!

Heh. AngeW just caled him a puckwit.

Lhaws joins the apology roadshow

Lhaws' desperate "what about me?!" sideshow has been a cause of genuine mirth throughout this whole thing.

How is "fat slug" anything other than insulting?

Puckish? Give me a break! It's no more puckish and no less insulting than me saying something like "Laws just talks shit all the time because he has a mouth that looks like puckered arsehole". Which, funnily enough, is what I actually…

Puckish? Give me a break! It's no more puckish and no less insulting than me saying something like "Laws just talks shit all the time because he has a mouth that looks like puckered arsehole". Which, funnily enough, is what I actually…

I reserve the right to be controversial and outspoken.

But my off-air comments, in particular, crossed the line from puckish to insulting, and although…

I liked the way that…

Possibly true, though it seems to be me that in general Indians take insults very seriously and they are quite protective of people in seniority, so laughing at a chief minster's name could come close to being a national insult in itself.

My own interpretation was that he insulted all…

...he had around 30,000 friends. It was up to 50,000 after a couple of days and is now hitting 65,000.

That's why I'm not laying any bets that he'll be sacked. The number of people who believe their own right to be entertained trumps all other's rights – and all…

"I again apologise to all those who were genuinely hurt by what I said"

– as opposed to all those people who were just faking it.

I walk the finest of lines and accept that I have inadvertently crossed it from time…

http://dannews.co.nz/2010/10/10/statement-from-rick-ellis-tvnz-ceo/

Hooray!

Statement from Rick Ellis, TVNZ CEO (via Russell's Twitter feed which I happened to be glancing at the second it came through)

It wasn't just that (as so many media stories have portrayed), it was his remark about the name being appropriate because she was Indian that I imagine would have aroused that culture's ire.

Possibly true, though it seems to be me that in general Indians take insults very seriously and…

Compare the BBC's response to – off air – behaviour by similarly recalcitrant racist Carol Thatcher (yes, the one with the infamous mum). Apparently not every state-owned media organisation has trouble understanding what to do.

Well, except when it comes to Chris Moyles — if you're a top rating breakfast…

Their similar wording makes me feel like the comments were part of a concerted attempt by a group of like-minded people to spam the story, but then again -…

I do feel a considerable amount of pity – as I did for Tony Veitch – but ultimately his dismissal – as Tony Veitch's was – will be a really good thing for NZ society.

This made me ponder the irony of comparing the two. Veitch lost his job for…

his puerile giggling about a name

It wasn't just that (as so many media stories have portrayed), it was his remark about the name being appropriate because she was Indian that I imagine would have aroused that culture's ire.

As for Paul Henry, it's looking more and more possible that he will be sacked.

That's a sure bet – Paul Henry is history. I do feel a considerable amount of pity – as I did for Tony Veitch – but ultimately his dismissal – as Tony Veitch's was -…

Which side has which percentage?

48% / 52%;
yes / no.

My first instinct was it must be satire, yes

It's the hot new genre, Reality Satire.

straining under the weight of absurdity

My first instinct was it must be satire, yes

Should TVNZ axe Paul Henry as Breakfast host?

1. Yes, his comments about Anand Satyanand were unacceptable (54%)
2. No, his suspension is a fair penalty (46%)

48% / 52% now. :)

Opinion poll on NZ Herald website today has this result (in contrast to the ones on Campbell Live and other places last week that have already…

Seems we may have missed Lhaws angling for attention

Not me, mate.
It's just that this thread is already straining under the weight of absurdity.

Radio host Michael Laws has come under fire for calling Governor-General Sir Anand Satyanand a "large, fat man" who has "never left" the buffet table.

His bosses at RadioLive have also been slammed – for…

It seems to me that the portfolio is a fairly redundant one, and should merge with the Ministry for Culture and Heritage.

Decisions on things like frequency allocations and managing the digital TV switchover seems to require specialist knowledge and seem well outside culture and heritage concerns to me. The…

I guess my Google Fu isn't really up to scratch, because it took me too long to find too little about that particular portfolio and what it's mandate is. It seems to me that the portfolio is a fairly redundant one, and should merge with…

Could someone please explain to me why we have a Broadcasting Minister? What is his job, exactly?

You mean apart from being a share-holding minister in the television and radio networks owned by the state, issuing non-commercial radio licenses, funding programming through NZ on Air (disclosure: including Public Address Radio,…

But still, they're managing to make some good points. When did Former Evil Nat Philip Burdon become so good? No weasel words, very clear rejection of racism. I want to vote…

Close Up ran a poll

I saw that. Only 18% voted Yes. Was that because of the question or because they are Henry supporters??? We'll never know.

Exemplified the smug, self-serving organisational culture that must change.

I don't want him back – how many sixth chances do others get? He's an embarassment and a waste of oxygen.

While I'd be happy for him to be gone... I think he's in a bit of a special situation.... if they try to fire him over this, I think…

It'll be interesting to see how things play out when Henry returns. I'd love to see him make some bitter bigoted gaffe, and have his fellow presenters take a stand and walk out.

If they don't, they might want to remember that we've just watched Wendy Petrie (newsreader) introduce the…

I don't want him back – how many sixth chances do others get?

I put that question to my producer at PA Radio, and I was left in no uncertain terms that my contract would be run through the office shredder by the close of business. :)

Should Henry be…

It'll be interesting to see how things play out when Henry returns.

Paul Henry may not find much work after this dies down.

TVNZ's advertisers haven't had a chance to react yet and this won't be over until at least one and possibly several heads have rolled – I don't…

It'll be interesting to see how things play out when Henry returns. I'd love to see him make some bitter bigoted gaffe, and have his fellow presenters…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjdMhJPaNE

Should Henry be yellow carded, or red carded? Three strikes of racism of in one week would normally mean the state broadcasting employee in question was out the door. Some people are calling for Henry to be sacked, and an even larger number of people seem to…

I thought you were supposed to compare apples with oranges.

You could be right, it'd be easier to differentiate.

No. Why would it be?

Srsly, Australians are far more gauche; it's a true fact!

Craig, I still think you're comparing apples and pears.

See I never understood this. What's so difficult about comparing apples and pears? Pears are awful. I'd much rather have an apple. There. Done.

Graeme, isn't it galling that even Australians broadcasters appears more sensible, barely, than our mob?

No. Why would it be?

Simple matter of fact that an endless stream of Labour politicians have been perfectly happy to go on Breakfast while Paul Henry's racism, misogyny and homophobia has flowed like a backed up urinal for years.…

Apparently the Falkland Islands garrison used to refer to the islanders as "bennies" after that character. Once this became known to their commanders, this derogatory term was promptly banned. The squaddies then began calling the islanders "stills". When asked why, the answer was…

But Mr McCully said…

Lawyers, eh? Get the facts. Not the jokes.

n fact, as everybody knows, Paul Henry was a fine Kiwi rugby league player who switched allegiance twice, first to rugby, and then to England.

That was Henry Paul.

If only there was some way we could round up these racist scum and put them on a special train to a re-education gulag on Stewart Island or somewhere else unpleasant and remote.

I've never liked Social Darwinism or…

In fact, as everybody knows, Paul Henry was a fine Kiwi rugby league player who switched allegiance twice, first to rugby, and then to England.

TVNZ broadcaster Paul Henry is best known for his role as a simple handy-man in the British soap Crossroads, according to an Indian newspaper.

The story of Paul Henry's comments about the Governor-General, Sir Anand Satyanand, has been covered extensively by the Times of India.

However, its website yesterday…

Yep. India lodges formal complaint

Turns out Paul was right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sspaeeurl0A

Except for the dips-hit bit, of course. And the thing about Satch. And...

ht: dannews

What? I'm only saying what we're all thinking, right?

Well, I for one was certainly too afraid to say it.

Other non-scientific polls (Herald, Stuff) have indicated between 33 to 40% think Henry did nothing wrong

If only there was some way we could round up these racist scum and put them on a special train to a re-education gulag on Stewart Island or somewhere else unpleasant and remote.
.…

Craig, that's simply a false equivalence... Clark's comments on Henry have been documented earlier in this thread. I'm not at all sure what you think Jacinta's said other than on Twitter etc where she's been clear and unequivocal, Trevor too.

Simple matter of fact that an endless stream of Labour…

Yep. India lodges formal complaint

Oooh, bitch slap.

You know, Paul, if you want to go there – it should also have mattered to Jacinta Adern.

If he said that to her I'd agree, but he didn't so, would you like to ask her opinion? Please do, then if you…

Point well made Simon. All the more reason why the PM's initial reaction was very poor. Henry mightn't give a toss about race relations or our international standing, but the PM should have both constantly in mind.

So should the state broadcaster.
When North Korean state television is quoted, the…

So whether Pete of Papatoetoe or Helen of Hataitai agree or not doesn't matter to me. And... at the risk of getting all political again... neither should it matter to the bloody Prime Minister!

You know, Paul, if you want to go there – it should also have mattered to…

Paul Henry's comments are racist.

Yep, and clearly so, in case I wasn't clear on that.

"Was PH being racist?" (or words to that effect) and the "no" vote outnumbered the "yeses". It made me depressed.

Other non-scientific polls (Herald, Stuff) have indicated between 33 to 40% think Henry did nothing wrong, but most people think he did. I think there could be an overlap, with…

Firstly, she thinks Henry is sorry. Seriously?

Secondly, she thinks he didn't mean to offend anyone. Again, seriously?

For me, that takes quite a lot of the shine off her resignation offer.

Yeah, me too. (Especially the second.) Maybe she does know Henry and finds him to be misunderstood or…

Oh, I've just re-read what you said. The whole thread.....? Not…

...13,000 people responded.

at 75c a txt (I think)?
where does the money go?

However, I'm also noticing that some of the spelling/grammar/punctuation is of a very low standard, so I'm guessing there's not much intelligence going into the mix....or am I being altogether too precious?

In a thread attacking someone for making racist judgements, I'm not sure if spelling/grammar/punctuation should be used to…

They…

57/43, if memory serves. John looked a bit stunned.

I'm not surprised. Must be quite a shock to such a liberal presenter to discover that he's got such a non-liberal following.

the "no" vote outnumbered the "yeses"

57/43, if memory serves. John looked a bit stunned.

I caught one on Campbell Live last night. "Was PH being racist?" (or words to that effect) and the "no" vote outnumbered the "yeses". It made me depressed.

And this is the crowd Key's playing too which infruriate me. He's PM, he has responsibilities to encourage an inclusive and tolerant…

Paul, we must presume that no-one's commissioned a poll on it yet, so he doesn't know what to appear to think.

I caught one on Campbell Live last night. "Was PH being racist?" (or words to that effect) and the "no" vote outnumbered the "yeses". It made me depressed.

For me, that takes quite a lot of the shine off her resignation offer.

It is possible that both individuals are as stupid as these comments suggest. Henry clearly so.

If you don't mean to offend people, best to avoid making blatantly racist comments for a laff or justifying them…

There actually are some honourable people out there, and Andi Brotherston appears to be one of them.

Here is a quote of Brotherston's which was made after the e-mail was released and she was (subsequently) contacted for comment. Taken from this morning's Herald:

""Ms Brotherston said last night that Henry…

But the NZ Indian community sound pretty genuine.

Point well made Simon. All the more reason why the PM's initial reaction was very poor. Henry mightn't give a toss about race relations or our international standing, but the PM should have both constantly in mind.