The best guess is that this is designed to stop political parties buying complimentary blog posts as a way of spending money outside the limit.

Something in me wants to more specifically target the various methods of astro-turfing, which doesn't always involve money.

Tim
<><

Oh goody, does that mean that a Political Party can break the rules, be charged, go to court, drag out the court case, get elected, found guilty, and then pass retrospective legislation to change the rules and validate their action?

Or even better, a Political Party breaks the rules, a…

The decorative prow, incorp of paddels/rowing, and there were sails on waka. Yes.

Tonight Craig Ranapia will be Beowulf Ohiro.

Craig did you have another pet

Well, there was Beowulf but I'm just not Aryan enough to work that one with any conviction...

would it be safe, as I suggested earlier, to remove the "on a non-commercial basis" bit

You could, but I don't think that's going to happen. I expect that advertising does not a commercial 'blog make, and that the Courts, if ever called on to look at the matter would…

Craig did you have another pet as you can't let a name like Ohiro (Oh-Hero) go to waste.

To fix this, you just delete the bit in parentheses at the end of the 'blog exemption. Simple.

Brilliant! That'll let us do podcasts, too, and emails that say "pass this on to all your friends", which could be considered to be dissemination "by means of the Internet or any…

Shep = My English Shepard Doggy when I was 4yrs.
Cheyenne = The Street I grew up in.

You're using your Pron Star Name! Tee hee... I'm tempted to do the same, but I rather doubt 'Nigger Ohiro' would last very long, simply on grounds of good taste.

So what is written in news media publications and personal blogs is specifically ruled out as an advertisement. And if you're not publishing an advertisement, you don't need to supply name and address.

I think this clearly applies to comments as well, but Graeme begs to differ.

I don't believe…

I'm sure Margaret your last name is merely represented by a letter rather than being B.

Only if you are "commercial".

Sorry, yes, I probably should have said that (again). Maybe I should also have made it clear that I only meant blogs that say things like "think about child-care when you cast your vote", or something highly political like that, without providing news about child-care.…

And how on earth do we reconcile the difference?!

Unleash the dogs of law! And if you don't have the money to keep 'em fed – something I doubt will apply to any politician, political party, union or big corporate, MSM media outlet or lobbyist -, err on the side…

What I was worried about was little Jo Blogger who really is just acting as an individual, even if they are a party member, and had good reasons for keeping their name to themselves.

IMHO, said Jo Blogger has absolutely nothing to worry about, even if they're a party member.…

On the whole my position is that I would like to know who is funding and making electoral speech. I have no…

The above also means I could run actual political advertisements (which i'd consider on a case by case basis) if they are properly constituted, with the name and address of the promoter.

Of course. But sane people will use AdBlock and not see them :)

Margaret: Tim is worried solely about blogs which carry advertising, and which could therefore be classified as "commercial". I'd argue that most blogs which carry advertising aren't commercial in any sense of the word – those ads don't produce any real revenue, and the blog isn't…

ACT had some guy in a van driving around doing this during the last election ... I'm not sure how effective this would be in New Zealand though, its more likely to alienate voters than persuade them.

Ask John McGrath, who drove around Wellington for days blasting out silly songs…

Again: not true. How many times do I have to say it? Section 53(1) requires disclosure of your name and address even if you don't spend a cent on your blog.

Only if you are "commercial". And I think that anyone arguing that a freehosted blog which earns next to…

Again: not true. How many times do I have to say it? Section 53(1) requires disclosure of your name and address even if you don't spend a cent on your blog.

Huh? 53(1) says:

(1) No person may, during a regulated period, publish or cause or permit to be published…

A – Tim saying that s 53 (1) requires disclosure of name and address regardless of how much the blog costs (or doesn't) (I'm confused, are blogs special here, or is Tim saying this applies to all political stuff that isn't…

Again, your average dinky Blogger or Wordpress site with some irritating crap placed by AdSense is highly unlikely to be affected. It's only really a problem if you're blowing thousands a year on hosting.

Again: not true. How many times do I have to say it? Section 53(1) requires disclosure…

Kiwiblog comes to mind as a blog that is totally open about it's bias towards National

Reading between the lines on all of the above, Kiwiblog may very well be affected by the law, depending onhis hosting costs. Though IIRC he simply disclosed last election.

Public Address shouldn't have any…

However, I could forsee some wrangling about what is a "personal blog" as opposed to one that is affiliated with a party, due to the author being a member of a particular party.

That is indeed going to be an issue as the web becomes more of a feature in…

However, I could forsee some wrangling about what is a "personal blog" as opposed to one that is affiliated with a party

Agreed on both the thanks and the follow-up problem. Kiwiblog comes to mind as a blog that is totally open…

What if a blog has advertisements?

Don't. It's ugly, and it pisses off your readers, particularly if its one of those irritating flash ones that eats your CPU. And while they can be blocked (I use AdBlock, for example, so I just don't see them most of the time), it's…

However, I could forsee some wrangling about what is a "personal blog" as opposed to one that is affiliated with a party, due to the author being a member of a particular party. Take for example Tony Milne's blog – he's an…

s53 (1) applies only to "election advertisements". And a personal blog is, by definition, not an election advertisement.

Section 5 gives the definition of "election advertisement". A blog with political opinions could very easily fall under the definition in subsection (1). Subsection (2) provides various exemptions, including paragraph (g), for…

The issue I have with Bomber is his statement of picking up guns....

Where he convicted the innocent of terrorisim.

It would be good if he recanted on that now that the charges…

So pretty much only the anonymous political blogger gets affected?

No. As I've already said several times, personal blogs are not "election advertisements", therefore there is no requirement for disclosure. If you're just running a blog, you're completely unaffected by the law.

That may be so, but I don't think every blogger can be so sure---not without legal advice, anyway.

Sure. If, for example, you are a party contractor and your blog is just a mouthpiece for a party spin machine, then you should probably consider your position. But ordinary citizens…

Not for one moment putting any weight in the accusation but to support a person isn't the same as to condone their actions.

Russell why is it you want the evidence to come out prior to judgement but in the next breath support Bombers accusations?

Do you even read the…

Not for one moment putting any weight in the accusation but to support a person isn't the same as to condone their actions.

It's Bomber saying "this is bad shit, people are going to be pissed when they find this out." That's the incriminating evidence.

Well, actually, what he said was (I paraphrase) "people are going to be pissed off, the police were obliged to take an interest, but I believe what was…

The practice of having to have your real name and address on your political blog would have a very definite chilling effect, particularly on those who maintain pseudonyms now because of possible consequences such as impact on their employment or stalking.

Well, there's the other side of that equation Margaret.…

And I can't disagree just his rantings may have an impact on innocent lives rather than meaningless BS he's known for.

Yup. It's Bomber that's doing that, rather than, people who had what sounds like a reasonably open meeting at which details of what people had done were discussed. Not…

It seems to me what might be necessary here is a set of guidelines for how the law is intended to be interpreted.

Good idea. Annette King, apparently speaking on the basis of official advice, had a very different on the bill's meaning to Bill English.

I still think there…

I'm not sure how effective this would be in New Zealand though, its more likely to alienate voters than persuade them.

Well, yes... just as I see no need to change during campaign season my SOP that unsolicited mail is thrown out unread. If political parties have such a poor…

Bomber states it was given to him by his student editor from:

Bombastic
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Bombastic

And I can't disagree just his rantings may have an impact on innocent lives rather than meaningless BS he's known for.

They would however be required to bear a declaration stating the author's name and address

So pretty much only the anonymous political blogger gets affected? That would certainly change the face of political blogging in NZ. I can see a lot more guarded speech and moderation coming if that…

I don't really want to go back and forth on this, but I suggest you actually listen to the interview he gave to Public Address Radio. Yes, I'd find it rather plausible that Bomber has rather more extensive – and certainly more credible – contacts in the 'activist community'…

The select committee's report made it very clear that megaphones…

You forgot the quotes around "betters".

No god, no queen, no lord, no master.

Except for politicians who demand the privilege of silencing their critics.

But I am pretty sure that some less reputable opponents than David wouldn't mind a press story or two getting the wrong end of the stick.

Sigh.

I'm only being slightly facetious in saying we might have had…

Well, in my case, I'm firmly covered by 5 (2) (g)

That may be so, but I don't think every blogger can be so sure---not without legal advice, anyway.

Disclosure, spending limits etc only apply if you want to spend money, rather than merely being an active, informed, and opinionated…

All I've heard Bomber say – and he repeated it in the PA Radio interview – is that in view when you pick up a gun, and start frothing about killing your political enemies, you've pretty comprehensively FUBAR'd any moral or political authority you ever had. And speaking from…

His respect for the rule of law is 'I can break it by scratching SUVs'

He's sticking to a line that is defaming & damaging to people convicted of no crime who have a history of peaceful activisim. For that he's bringing it on himself.

Defamation is a false accusation against someone. I haven't followed what he's been saying closely, but as far as I know,…

quite a few "mainstream" kiwis don't seem to like following the demands of their betters for some reason. 8]

You forgot the quotes around "betters".

No god, no queen, no lord, no master. We can leave all that baggage behind in Europe, thankyouverymuch (and by calling it baggage, hopefully the…

You mean... participate?

Heh. I do believe that's exactly the problem the National party has with it. Unpaid participatory campaigns might hit trouble on the whole "tax cuts for the rich urgently needed" bandwagon. Especially if said rich have to put their name to it, quite a few "mainstream"…

The EFB may contribute to shifting campaigning toward the blogosphere amongst other places. Restrictions on spending will probably make things like getting supporters to blog, comment on blogs, ringing talkback and the traditional shoe leather campaigning more important.

You mean... participate?

I don't exactly see that as a flaw.

And this might not be directly pertinent to discussion of the Bill, but what about anon-i-bloggers? At least, I know David Farrar and Russell Brown; even have their home addresses and phone numbers tucked away in my address book. What about Idiot/Savant, the pseudonymous chaps at The Standard and Kiwiblogblog…

Bomber if you side with Garth McVicar you're no longer part of the Social Justice Movement.

Gee, does he have to give back his decoder ring and stop using the secret handshakes? Seriously, Shep, if anything is harming the credibility of the 'Social Justice Movement' it's this kind of wing-nuttery.…

Is some tough reading but...

...it's well worth it if you're intereste din our democracy. And the argument will only be improved if people are actually familiar with what they are arguing about.

(This goes for all legislation, BTW. Don't leave it to the wonks like me. It's available, it's…

Was it Disinfo-Bomber who marched with Garth McVicar of the Sensible Sentencing Trust?

And was it Disinfo -Bomber who made a few good points on Climate Change on RNZ?

Bomber…

Summary: Oh goody.

This may make the campaign even more tiresome than usual.

Anonymous comments on blogs are the publication by an individual, on a non-commercial basis, on the Internet of his or her personal political views (being the kind of publication commonly known as a comment on a blog.

That's a distinction important in attributing things correctly in the blogosphere, but not…

Messy, but it does seem reasonably legit on Labour's part. And in the decision, the inaccuracy complaint is upheld because the broadcast number of times Maori Party voted with National was lower than the real number!

Here's where it's deceptive, Jimmy – both National and the Maori Party voted against…

I'd also note there's a rather disturbing trend in the United States recently for bloggers to become mouthpieces for various campaigns (both covertly, overtly and once they've been outed). **Both Republicans and Democrats (and various nominees for their respective Presidential nominations) appear to…

[17] The Authority asked the Labour Party to provide the information upon which it had based the claim that the Māori Party had voted the same way as National 227 times.…

Well, Gareth, I can point you to a few people who were active in the anti-Tour movement who felt that it was part of a larger project to turf Piggy the Fascist and his Tory litter out.

If that's true, then it would have been caught under this bill:

**5…

Anonymous comments on blogs are the publication by an individual, on a non-commercial basis, on the Internet of his or her personal political views (being the kind of publication commonly known as a comment on a blog.

And this might not be directly pertinent to discussion of the Bill, but…

I don't know, perhaps I'm a little more worried about folks just telling lies than jumping at Exclusive Brethren under the bed, and foreign bagmen in the closet.

Absolutely, outright lying seems to have become a more acceptable "political argument" in recent times. If we could firm up the legislation…

(I couldn't broadcast an anti-ACT radio ad without declaration and therefore shouldn't be able to holler the same ad all over Queen St)

Taking your hypothetical a step further, Gareth, take a look atthis BSA decision.

Now, that advert may have been properly declared up the wazoo, but the real…

I run a news media publication on the the internet and I have a Qantas Media Award to prove it.

You have a good point there. However, there is no exception for less talented (or even just differently-focussed) bloggers, whose blogs contain only opinions and paid advertisements, but not news.…

But it looks like a stupid error in trying to cover the change to align the definition of broadcasting with the one in the Broadcasting Act. (What did the previous definition say? Did it include the use of loudspeakers etc?)

The change they're referring to here is the inclusion of…

Of course, HART was more of an issues based advocacy and as such would not have been covered under this bill at all...

Well, Gareth, I can point you to a few people who were active in the anti-Tour movement who felt that it was part of a larger project…

Craig, I do agree that election year voice being limited to registered political parties only is OTT – but if the EFB had existed in 81, and HART had been specifically against National as a political party/Muldoon as a candidate they could have registered and…

;)

News media

We recommend amendments to clause 5(2)(c) and (d), and the insertion of new clause 5(2)(da), to make it clear that editorials, news and current affairs programmes, and news media publications on the Internet were exempt…

Personally, I don't see what is wrong with election year being fought between registered political parties who have candidates up for election and policies for voters to look at and mull over.

Indeed, Tom, and I'm sure Muldoon would have loved an legislative instrument to keep the anti-Tour movement firmly…

I'm not sure why DPF thought anonymous comments would be caught,

I'm not sure either. But I am pretty sure that some less reputable opponents than David wouldn't mind a press story or two getting the wrong end of the stick.

Section 53, which is unamended has this paragraph:

Sorry, that's not what I meant to say. Section 53 was amended, but the paragraph I quoted wasn't.

I'm not sure why DPF thought anonymous comments would be caught, but Russell's own posts on Hard News might be caught, since he sells…

Is some tough reading but...

Section 5 (2) says “The following are not election advertisements: …. 5 (2) (g) “The publication by an individual, on a non-commercial basis, on the Internet of his or her personal political views (being the…

Personally, I don't see what is wrong with election year being fought between registered political parties who have candidates up for election and policies for voters to look at and mull over.

Freedom of expression isn't meant to be just for the political establishment. It's meant to be for everyone,…

Can someone please explain these publishing rules and how they differ from previous?
Anything you "publish" (as defined) cannot be anonymous? The various $$ amount limits have nothing to do with it?

Section 53, which is unamended has this paragraph:

(1) No person may, during a regulated period, publish or…

"Why are people / organisations affraid of identifying themselves as donors to political parties?"

Given that we have just had a very public demonstration that you can be forced out of your job because the person you live with works for a political opponent of the ruling…

In a protest march against National, every placard has to have a name and address on it. If you speak into the megaphone (even to lead a chant) you need to give your name and home address.

It'd be even better if everyone who is chanting has to give their…

Ha ha ha! I used to work for a company who had the Employment Court rule that bad-arse swearing was acceptable in that workplace and so employees couldn't be disciplined for it.

Is there a list of such workplaces and do they have a certificate you can hang on the…

Actually I made around 20 pages of suggested improvements to the select committee.

I know. But yours was not a typical submission.

It may do but at the same time it justifies those doing the arguing. Presumably those crtical of the bill were under no obligation to keep quite and just hope things might improve.

Of course not – it improved because people spoke up and submitted to select committee, identified the…

It pretty much makes meet the candidate evenings completely illegal.

How? Because the candidates are not allowed to remain anonymous?

Seriously, I am confused by these suggestions and am interested in the mechanics of how these things are no longer allowed.

Even the megaphone example – if the march organisers…

Yes, a damn good move, which along with the change to the definition of election advertising, cuts the ground underneath those arguing against it.

It may do but at the same time it justifies those doing the arguing. Presumably those crtical of the bill were under no obligation to keep…

Oh, and they got rid of the statutory declarations bit – the most important change they could make.

Yes, a damn good move, which along with the change to the definition of election advertising, cuts the ground underneath those arguing against it. The bill restricts freedom of spech? Only if…

In a protest march against National, every placard has to have a name and address on it. If you…

I can't see how I'd spend the $1000 required for a statutory declaration by shouting into a megaphone

Can you potentially see that you might be at a protest chanting something anti-[some party] slogan, and either not wanting to (or forgetting) to chant your address?

Can you imagine that you…

I can't see how I'd spend the $1000 required for a statutory declaration by shouting into a megaphone

Oh, and they got rid of the statutory declarations bit – the most important change they could make.

Is the bill worse than when it was introduced? No.

It used to cover just about everything political, not it only covers stuff related to the election. This is a great improvement.

It didn't used to have an exemption for the websites of newsmedia – only the…

We acknowledge the assistance of the Human Rights Commission.
After hearings of evidence on this bill we requested that the Human
Rights Commission consider our proceedings, speak with our advisers,
and comment on our recommended amendments. We note that
the Commission strongly supported…

The bill actually extends the definition of publishing to include using a meagphone on a protest march. And this is not an accident – it is clear is is deliberate. If you shout "Down with National" into a megaphone you need to also shout your name and home address.

My…

and vote Craft2.0 people
becuase maybe if it win's we'll get lovely jubbly sponsorship money and then we can have one in auckland

I am very happy with National's new stance opposing anonymous donations, maybe they could do a deal with like minded parties to force an amendment through to that affect.

Seconded. C'mon, give us your SOP!

(Though actually, if we want it to pass, the person we really need to pressure…

...there needs to still be something wrong with it for National to continue to oppose it.

but that wouldn't be politics

Labour fumbled the ball and National are doing a George Gregan.

there needs to still be something wrong with it for National to continue to oppose it.

National was for it before they were against it...with the reservation about the time period being extended out to include the whole year of an election.

I think National sees it as a wedge…

I will be interested…

Press releases that advocate for or against a party are still defined as election advertisements. If you e-mail out a press release, you’ll need to include your address on it.

If I was teaching someone to write media releases, which I have done from time to time, then I would…

I actually live in a mews now, and some kind stranger (well, real estate company that specialises…

Press releases that advocate for or against a party are still defined as election advertisements. If you e-mail out a press release, you’ll need to include your address on it.

…

A paltry number of paranoid dickheads turn up for a rubbish protest in auckland and it makes headline news. WTF!

Perhaps it is because the cause is media driven,rather than anything else.

A headline to the effect that '1,316,700 people didn't turn up' to the protest in Auckland would hardly…

I'll also nominate "Hill Street Mews", on Hill street,

Was it actually a mews? Which is a word that I only found out last week denotes an urban horse stable. 'Cos if it wasn't I think they should change it.

And all the placards also need your name and address on them.

DPF – are you sure this is new? There have always been tight controls over that sort of material has to be attributed during election campaigns. If new, it sounds more like a clarification than a death knell.…

and b) as one of its much-loved sons I'm quite likely to sweep various "Best in Wellington" categories

Heh heh, except we've rigged it.

The bill actually extends the definition of publishing to include using a meagphone on a protest march. And this is not an accident – it is clear is is deliberate. If…

In a minority report, National opposes the committee's view.

The ACT Party also makes a minority report...

In a third minority report, the Green Party...

I thought Mission Impossible were the only Tom Cruise movies that went to trilogies (da boom ching!)

When I worked at a stockbroker, a content filtering system was put in on mail that excluded exactly 4 words f-word, c-word, sl-word, wh-word.

i.e.: family, community, social, whanau?
Yep, I can see how those'd be unacceptable around stockbrokers.

A Parliamentary select committee has recommended substantial changes be made to the Electoral Finance Bill.

Parliament's Justice and Electoral Committee has tabled its report on the bill, saying clauses on the definition of third party advertising should be removed because they are too broad and…

(or maybe just Snake Pilsen's eye patch)

I think Daryl Hannah already nicked it off him...

Heh. When I worked at a stockbroker, a content filtering system was put in on mail that excluded exactly 4 words f-word, c-word, sl-word, wh-word.

IIRC, the good burghers of Scunthorpe have no end of troubles with such filters...

Meet the New Bob

For a brief moment, I thought this was going to be another post about David's poor viciously-slandered baby.

Who Would Tim Finn Thank?"

er ... Neil?

Wellingtonista-Public Address Christmas Party at Welington's Mighty Mighty on Thursday, December 6

anything planned for Auckland? I'll have to wear a mask of course ... (or maybe just Snake Pilsen's eye patch)

Wellingtonista-Public Address Christmas Party at Welington's Mighty Mighty on Thursday, December 6.

Damn. I'm off to the Family First Fun Evening that day. I've already got my walk shorts ironed and a new pair of knee socks and sandles.

He has spent $50k campaigning against the EFB

the joys of Post-Modern politics.

Though if $50,000 is correct, then I'll take over organising his marches for him. I could do it for a quarter of that no problem, and keep the difference. *sells soul*

Now that's an idea... Matthews & Ranapia, Rent-A-Rabble 4 Less (This Week Only, Bonus Fly Buy Points!)

Still, I guess…

I'd like a category for worst name of a block of flats or houses.

And you had your chance to suggest that back in October!

Well you just walk down Hill Street and see how you feel about it then Joanna. Then we will talk about "October" and "suggest".

He has spent $50k campaigning against the EFB, not $50k on the protest. Please get your facts right I/S.

This includes newspaper ads, radio etc. Most if not all did not refer…

Personally I'd feel more comfortable with FF and SST and whoever else, if they did, maybe as a political party.

Yeah, I've been trying to form my thoughts around this: I like I'd appreciate the ability to know a bit more about these groups.

Idiot, WTF are you going on about? I guess my thirty pieces of silver are still in the mail...

One presumes the guy spent it on advertising and equipment hire and whatnot.

Though if $50,000 is correct, then I'll take over organising his marches for him. I could do it…

You couldn't be if you wanted to: they don't have a membership.

Personally I'd feel more comfortable with FF and SST and whoever else, if they did, maybe as a political party. I get the impression they're barely larger than one-man-bands, and they're getting lots of media attention for something…

I'd like a category for worst name of a block of flats or houses.

And you had your chance to suggest that back in October!

However after hearing the news report on the march with some mad woman going on about how this was the "end of democracy in NZ", I was re-convinced that this bill was a Good Thing.

Just as I'm equally convinced that the EFB is a very bad thing…

Meanwhile, the protest organiser reportedly spent $50,000 to get 2,000 people. And the right calls people a "rent-a-mob"?

Idiot, WTF are you going on about? I guess my thirty pieces of silver are still in the mail...

Be even cooler if my name was spelt properly :)

Sorry, fixed now.

I also didn't realise my movements around Wellington were being tracked

We're trying to round up more celebrities for Wellington for you...

That'd be interesting, given that you're only nominated in one category, although it's a pretty good one.

Ha, that's hilarious, I hadn't seen that. Truth really is stranger than the odd fiction I have running through my head. Be even cooler if my name was spelt properly :)

I also…

I just hope you are not lumping all 'Christian Conservatives' into the 'Exclusive Brethren' club. As a christian conservative myself, I would not want to be associated with what many would class as a 'cult'.

No, the Brethren were out there. I was referring to the lobby that the Maxim…

Ha ha ha! I used to work for a company who had the Employment Court rule that bad-arse swearing was acceptable in that workplace and so employees couldn't be disciplined for it. And in my current workplace, I sit near a group of young ladies who swear like pirates.

Heh.…

However after hearing the news report on the march with some mad woman going on about how this was the "end of democracy in NZ", I was re-convinced that this bill was a Good Thing.

Nobody's going to…

b) as one of its much-loved sons I'm quite likely to sweep various "Best in Wellington" categories – would you mind accepting them on my behalf, ta?

I'd be honoured. Although I did vote for you ...

I just hope you are not lumping all 'Christian Conservatives' into the 'Exclusive Brethren' club. As a christian conservative myself, I would not want to be…

b) as one of its much-loved sons I'm quite likely to sweep various "Best in Wellington" categories

That'd be interesting, given that you're only nominated in one category, although it's a pretty good one.

Still, at least there's someone there to save us from the trauma of hearing the word "wanker" on The Simpsons.

I love reading BSA decisions.

__The complainant argued that the words [wanker and ass] were totally inappropriate for supposed child and family friendly viewing time, and that they would be…

a) Thanks for organising the Wellington Christmas Party when I'm out of town...and b) as one of its much-loved sons I'm quite likely to sweep various "Best in Wellington" categories – would you mind accepting them on my behalf, ta? You know the drill, thank my lawyer, accountant...ask…

I wonder if the Electoral Finance Bill is the political right's GE issue

or, more topically, police raids. If the person putting Hyperbole in NZ's water supply would just change to Valium. Or e, either way.

Having someone who pushes for either soft or state censorship of southpark, simpsons, californication, hell pizza and boobs on bikes as a mouthpiece for a free speech campaign sends mixed messages.

That said I still support the intent…