Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Media7: Doing it for the Kids https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Jackie Clark https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209093#post209093 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209093#post209093 It's true, Islander. Kids need to do edgy stuff sometimes and there just isn't space for it in our society, so it's replaced either by sporty stuff, or over excited kids, who have no idea about consequence, doing ridiculously life shortening or prison worthy stuff.

Can I add my dislike…

]]> Sun, 10 Apr 2011 07:45:50 +1200 Graeme Edgeler https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209092#post209092 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209092#post209092 Just seen it. Can I add my dislike for the phrase "overweight or obese"?

It's a phrase that seems designed to cause moral panic. The word overweight is sufficient for almost every circumstance in which it is used.

I recognise there is a medical distinction between the two, but obese…

]]> Sat, 09 Apr 2011 23:44:41 +1200 Islander https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209070#post209070 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209070#post209070 I am not recomending this! BUT
one of the reasons an older society here worked was because the adrenalin-fueled youth had a place & a responsibilty (and were controlled strictly) and frankly, sport just doesnt take the place of war.

]]> Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:07:40 +1200 Islander https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209069#post209069 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209069#post209069 O dear goodness, can I add anything to this, Yamis?

Not much.

Because, coming from a large (in numbers) whanau, which has a dysfunctional fringe, we know there isnt a lot even *whanau* can do when you've got some of the 2nd/3rd generation running wild enough to be stealing off…

]]> Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:03:16 +1200 Yamis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209065#post209065 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209065#post209065 Kyle: "Bullying to me feels like a problem which could benefit from a similar strategy as the "it's not OK" adverts, but targetted more towards youth in medium and presentation."

Maybe. But I'm not sure a lot of the idiotic, bullying juniors are mentally able to process what they are…

]]> Fri, 08 Apr 2011 22:04:34 +1200 Adzze https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209044#post209044 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=209044#post209044 The NZEI response was understandable but poorly thought out. People were always going to view their choice of the "B-word" as an appeal for equivalence to kids getting punched and kicked, given the recent coverage.

And Sophie, perhaps the NZEI take their cues from the NZ Principals Federation.

]]> Fri, 08 Apr 2011 17:54:52 +1200 Sofie Bribiesca https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208882#post208882 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208882#post208882

I never would have guessed that, Russell. :) But do you really think that NZEI PR was actually very helpful, as opposed to being (obviously) attention-grabbing? You know, the safety and wellbeing of children might just be marginally more important than a media slap-fight between the Minister and the union.…

]]> Fri, 08 Apr 2011 09:37:45 +1200 Geoff Lealand https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208830#post208830 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208830#post208830 Thu, 07 Apr 2011 21:52:29 +1200 vangam https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208829#post208829 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208829#post208829 Thu, 07 Apr 2011 21:34:02 +1200 Kyle Matthews https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208828#post208828 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208828#post208828 Meanwhile, here's a direct quote from Tolley in the last story you linked to.

My immediate reaction to Key's and Tolley's comments were "Ministers suddenly discover there is bullying in schools" followed by "Ministers offer no practical help to deal with it". I'm not surprised that NZEI members who are…

]]> Thu, 07 Apr 2011 21:27:20 +1200 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208633#post208633 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208633#post208633 Yes, I saw that this morning on Scoop. Seriously…what is the point of the PP plan? It seems there are no significant savings to be made from the government’s own OIA business report, so why bother?

Don’t get me wrong, I can see there might be some room for such…

]]> Thu, 07 Apr 2011 07:00:07 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208629#post208629 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208629#post208629 Thu, 07 Apr 2011 00:40:47 +1200 Yamis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208620#post208620 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208620#post208620 It's a pretty common thing for the government to do with schools.

If your stand down rate is 'too high' or higher than other schools then it sets off alarm bells down in Mars (Wellington). They don't bother to come and look at each one on a case by case…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:25:09 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208616#post208616 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208616#post208616 We are instructed by the ministry to stop doing it.

Do any media know that part?

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:30:04 +1200 Yamis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208614#post208614 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208614#post208614 Having first hand experience of this whole bullying thing being a teacher at a high school that may or may not have featured on a certain current affairs show very recently...... :)

Bullying is obviously an issue that schools have to deal with on a daily, hour by hour, often…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:21:15 +1200 81stcolumn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208613#post208613 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208613#post208613 PPP opportunity in there somewhere ]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:40:28 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208612#post208612 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208612#post208612 We obviously have different ideas about what constitutes pissy language. I looked again at what the union media release said:

“Schools take bullying very seriously and encourage a zero-tolerance approach. They don’t need to be bullied into action,” says NZEI President Ian Leckie.

“They are already very aware of their…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:35:48 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208598#post208598 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208598#post208598 Most grown-ups are capable of distinguishing between content and process. The union’s complaint was aobut the process, wasn’t it?

And couched in the kind of language I expect from pissy teenagers who regard being ask to make an attempt to submit their course work on the due date as fascist…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:38:02 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208596#post208596 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208596#post208596 I await with interest her response to bullying – reports in school tables anyone

Probably bring back the strap

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 17:34:14 +1200 81stcolumn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208577#post208577 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208577#post208577 Tolley's recent attempts to make education "better" appear to have revolved around more assessment.

I await with interest her response to bullying – reports in school tables anyone ?

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:30:30 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208576#post208576 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208576#post208576 You know, the safety and wellbeing of children might just be marginally more important than a media slap-fight between the Minister and the union.

Most grown-ups are capable of distinguishing between content and process. The union's complaint was aobut the process, wasn't it?

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:29:57 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208572#post208572 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208572#post208572 It may or may not have been fair in this case, but Tolley has earned herself a reputation as a bully. She's arrogant and, judging what I've heard out of her office, a terrible manager. So I'm not inclined towards sympathy for her. I think she's the worst Education minister… ]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:16:47 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208571#post208571 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208571#post208571 So I’m not inclined towards sympathy for her. I think she’s the worst Education minister in many years.

I never would have guessed that, Russell. :) But do you really think that NZEI PR was actually very helpful, as opposed to being (obviously) attention-grabbing? You know, the __safety and wellbeing…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:12:54 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208544#post208544 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208544#post208544 (Actually, to be fair to Craig: Russell’s post does seem to support a judgement about the Minister’s response only on the basis of the resulting newspaper headlines . I assume you’d agree Craig is perfectly entitled to engage with the content of the original post rather than focussing solely on… ]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 14:32:40 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208464#post208464 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208464#post208464 I assume you’d agree Craig is perfectly entitled to engage with the content of the original post rather than focussing solely on the commentariat.

I really rather would, because the McVicar-ish concern trolling from much of the commentariat has been dispiriting to say the least. As I said in my…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 12:42:13 +1200 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208441#post208441 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208441#post208441 Minister’s response only on the basis of the resulting newspaper headlines . I assume you'd agree Craig is perfectly entitled to engage with the content of the original post rather than focussing solely on… ]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 12:02:08 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208433#post208433 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208433#post208433 And it’s a very standard distract troll to accuse your enemies of acting in bad faith. Don’t take notes, just kill it with fire.

I learned it all from you, dear heart ;-)

You really think the Minister’s letter (which I wasn’t overly impressed with BTW) was “bullying”?

Russell’s point…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:50:24 +1200 Ben Chapman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208415#post208415 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208415#post208415 You really think the Minister's letter (which I wasn't overly impressed with BTW) was "bullying"? Well, I'll like you to go sit on that step over there between Michael ("liberals whiners are being mean to me") Laws and Chris ("criticising Winston Peters is like a media gang rape") Trotter.

Again,…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:43:49 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208412#post208412 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208412#post208412 Mark:

Perhaps you can save me a lot of time, and post a list of subjects I can talk about without having to waste time playing Bad Faith Bullshit Bingo with you or Tom S. I’ll take “any criticism of teacher unions” as read.

Just as an FYI, quotes are…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:22:27 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208410#post208410 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208410#post208410 I know a young person with skills and experience to work with some of angriest young people, but she can't get a job in NZ. No one has the money to employ her.
When Tolley was blithely offering the Ministry's support to School Boards of Trustees, I did wonder who…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:05:08 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208409#post208409 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208409#post208409 Adults just have to keep modelling the behaviour they want children and other impressionable people to copy.

Like holding people to account for violence.

Starting with the PM and government (and I don't see much role modelling in inclusion and social justice from them).
Given that they don't believe in…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:01:36 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208408#post208408 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208408#post208408 Yes folks, this is indeed an all-too-common example of classic Ranapiasm, as executed by the Craig-bot. Please note these standard features for identification in your own threads.

And it's a very standard distract troll to accuse your enemies of acting in bad faith. Don't take notes, just kill it with…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:58:27 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208405#post208405 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208405#post208405 Three points:

Adults just have to keep modelling the behaviour they want children and other impressionable people to copy. Starting with the PM and government (and I don't see much role modelling in inclusion and social justice from them). In my many years on school boards I saw a lot…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:34:06 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208400#post208400 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208400#post208400 Let’s see:
Perception that National Minister has been criticised.

Check.

First, Tolley isn’t responsible for the headlines in newspapers not exactly know for pushing the hyperbole button, hard.

Strawman that no-one had even suggested, check.

Meanwhile, here’s a direct quote from Tolley in the last story you linked to.

Cherry-picked…

]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:23:14 +1200 Ben Chapman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208392#post208392 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208392#post208392 From the perspective of the NZEI, with a difficult and sensitive problem to deal with, having John Key (who is the person being accused of bullying, not Tolley) talking tough to schools and threatening them with the ERO, without even talking to them about the problem, let alone offering any… ]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 08:12:46 +1200 Ben Chapman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208390#post208390 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208390#post208390 BTW, any really think the NZEI did itself any favours with that press release. Because, of course, the Education Minister writing a letter they happen to disagree with is exactly like physical and psychological abuse of children in a place they should not only feel safe in, but are legally… ]]> Wed, 06 Apr 2011 07:59:37 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208382#post208382 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208382#post208382 It's on now... ]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:32:14 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208380#post208380 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208380#post208380 Some people are still trying to necromance the Mazengarb Report. They might as well necromance Rob Muldoon and Patty Bartlett.

And I can't help but think that bullying is symptomatic of wider society. Peer pressure is a key factor, and sadly it often isn't outgrown. In blue collar circles, it's…

]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 19:57:23 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208378#post208378 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208378#post208378 I know she didn’t write the headlines. But I was genuinely fascinated by the language of the headlines and intros: so many combat words.

Sure, but let's sheet the responsibility for that where it deserves to be. I don't know if I'd go as far as "moral panic", but I've…

]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 19:20:32 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208377#post208377 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208377#post208377 First Russell you might take your own advice re: Tizzard-mania: Get a grip. First, Tolley isn’t responsible for the headlines in newspapers not exactly know for pushing the hyperbole button, hard.

I know she didn't write the headlines. But I was genuinely fascinated by the language of the headlines and…

]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 18:43:07 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208375#post208375 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208375#post208375 Tue, 05 Apr 2011 18:16:52 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208373#post208373 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208373#post208373 The Prime Minister’s abrupt discovery of the issue a press conference led swiftly to a response from his Education minister that might in itself be seen as a bullying one. Take your pick of the headlines: Principals meet minister for bullying talks, or Tolley tells schools to toughen up on… ]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 17:53:45 +1200 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208372#post208372 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-media7-doing-it-for-the-kids/?p=208372#post208372 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Tue, 05 Apr 2011 17:53:45 +1200