Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Media Take: Afghanistan, trust and NetHui

Russell Brown

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 19:06:54 +1200

Gah! that's what I *meant* to say!

Geoff Lealand

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:21:35 +1200

I got a message from Brioni to say it was screening at 10.15pm

izogi

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:36:02 +1200

I have lots of respect for Jon Stephenson. I’m sure there’s something to this story, and I’m immensely appreciative of people like him who go to high-risk places like these to get these stories out. But as someone who’s not well versed in everything Afghanistan and nearby places (and hoping…

Russell Brown

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:14:28 +1200

Just a reminder that the show screens a little earlier than usual tonight on Maori television: 10.15pm

david kinniburgh

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:50:46 +1200

More from WaPo, that bastion of objective news reporting, on the scope of NSA's data collection:

__Many other files, described as useless by the analysts but nonetheless retained, have a startlingly intimate, even voyeuristic quality. They tell stories of love and heartbreak, illicit sexual liaisons, mental-health crises, political and religious…

david kinniburgh

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 10:08:38 +1200

__ Stephen R, in reply to Ian Dalziel, about an hour ago
But Mr key has said this kinda thing (Drone strikes, etc) is just ‘prosecuting’ suspected terrorists, and he’s comfortable with that – so what could possibly be wrong with that?

Surely it’s actually conviction and capital punishment, rather…

Stephen R

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:53:26 +1200

But Mr key has said this kinda thing (Drone strikes, etc) is just 'prosecuting' suspected terrorists, and he's comfortable with that – so what could possibly be wrong with that?

Surely it's actually conviction and capital punishment, rather than mere prosecution? Capital punishment without a trial; based on information provided…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:51:46 +1200

But Mr key has said this kinda thing (Drone strikes, etc) is just 'prosecuting' suspected terrorists, and he's comfortable with that – so what could possibly be wrong with that?

william blake

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 21:56:40 +1200

To note Wayne Mapp's distancing of himself from his categorical denial of any civilian casualties with the phrase "based on information provided by the defence force", which sounds like a variation on the gun sight malfunction bullshit.

Respect to Stevenson for the work he does, crazy bastard.

David R

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:53:19 +1200

The 30mm autocannons on the Apache are not "precision" weapons so shooting them anywhere near civilians is asking for them to die. Watch enough of the garish gun camera footage and you'll agree. The dispersion on the bursts can be rather large.

Anyway, we shouldn't be focusing on that. We…

Rich Lock

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:22:07 +1200

I could well believe that that could end up slightly out of alignment

If I recall correctly from the first-person pilot accounts I've read, the 'splash zone' for the cannon on the Apache has a radius of around 10-15m at the best of times. Meaning that rounds might impact anywhere…

Stephen R

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 15:14:48 +1200

The sights on the chain-gun on the Apache helicopter are slaved to the pilot and/or gunners helmet. Turn your head, and the gun moves to follow where the pilot is looking.

I could well believe that that could end up slightly out of alignment, such that shooting ends up off-set…

Steve Curtis

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 15:11:53 +1200

The Apache gunships use a monocle gunsight, as shown here by Prince Harry, who was a front seat or weapons operator in Afghanistan.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00376/120298959__376246b.jpg

The computer projects the target information onto the monocle glass.
Doesnt seem to be a reliable way to target people, a slight movement of the head…

Russell Brown

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 15:09:55 +1200

I assume that the “malfunction” in this case is that a video recording of the incident escaped. If the system had been functioning correctly the video would never have been seen by anyone outside the US military.

No, as is made clear in the introduction, the combat video is not…

Moz

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 15:06:39 +1200

If the gunsights had malfunctioned I would have thought that nobody would have been gunned down, or do they have different settings for military and civilian targets?

I assume that the "malfunction" in this case is that a video recording of the incident escaped. If the system had been functioning…

william blake

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:43:45 +1200

If the gunsights had malfunctioned I would have thought that nobody would have been gunned down, or do they have different settings for military and civilian targets?

Russell Brown

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:34:11 +1200

Sixteen? The article Kevin linked says six. Bit of a difference.

Actually I was wrong – just checked the report. It’s 21. Six killed and 15 injured.

Edit: Also the villagers' accounts of where they were shot (outside, running for cover) didn't match with the US explanation (a couple of…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:39:17 +1200

It's not like Vietnam:

How can you shoot women and children?
It's easy, you just don't lead them as much.

Matthew Poole

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:39:07 +1200

Sixteen civilians were hit by helicopter gunship fire as they sought shelter.

Sixteen? The article Kevin linked says six. Bit of a difference.

Matthew Poole

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:37:05 +1200

I find it very hard to believe gun sights malfunctioned. Any info on this?

It seems less likely than recklessness as an explanation.

Or a combination of the two. "I think that's close enough, but don't have the usual accuracy. Oh well, that'll have to do," instead of "Can't shoot…

Russell Brown

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:35:34 +1200

A loose connection, a faulty transistor, a blown fuse… So many, many ways things can go wrong.

Sixteen civilians were hit by helicopter gunship fire as they sought shelter. The villagers say there were no insurgents there and no evidence has been produced to the contrary. I don't think it…

Russell Brown

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:33:27 +1200

I find it very hard to believe gun sights malfunctioned. Any info on this?

It seems less likely than recklessness as an explanation.

Matthew Poole

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:33:03 +1200

I find it very hard to believe gun sights malfunctioned.

Why do you find it hard to believe? They’re not using iron sights, they’re using cameras and computers. Electronics crap out at the most wonderfully helpful moments. A loose connection, a faulty transistor, a blown fuse… So many, many ways…

Kevin McCready

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 11:47:49 +1200

The stuff report (now with a correction about the earlier claim that Jon said it was a revenge attack) says "US military had already confirmed that gun sights on their helicopters malfunctioned during that mission and an unintended target might have been hit. " I find it very hard…

Public Address

Mon, 07 Jul 2014 11:47:49 +1200

Discussion from blog post.