Only on the condition that I can bring my wife and child. Wouldn't want to leave them in NZ, wouldn't be safe with all these terrorists.

Turns out he was a lying Green Card fraudster who only pretended to be a WMD specialist.

Bugger.

The number of Iraqis killed in insurgent and sectarian attacks rose in October, according to government figures obtained on Thursday, in a blow to a nine-month-old US troop surge policy.

At least 887 Iraqis…

But to state that we just start wars or murder entire populations just because we can't try rational debate, is a bit extreme and irrational don't you think?

Andrew, I didn't suggest anything of the sort. I suggested that wars and murders often happen because people are unwilling to debate…

"But we shouldn't assume for even a minute that in the next 25 to 50 years the American military might be able to come home, relax…

I guess a better comparison was Gallipoli, where we were invading someone elses country.

Gallipoli as an 'away game' would be a good comparison to Iraq if there were thousands of Turks living there when we invaded and it got bogged down in a Civil War and infighting between Turkish…

Good for the goose, but not for Turkey?

By ignoring 90% of the facts you can make any situation look like any other. Which is what Dyer is doing here and what he usually does.

Israel vs. Hezbollah is quite obliviously a different conflict to Turkey vs. the PKK. But…

Also, the PKK are pretty justified. A good chunk of Turkey (along with Iran and Iraq) is basically Kurdish and occupied by Turkey through oppression and torture. It's illegal…

Fifteen months ago, the armed wing of Lebanon's Hezbollah party, listed as a terrorist organisation by the United States…

Stephen. I think there are reasonable and well written views here. But Iraq is a case in point where views are so incredibly mired in philosphy, whether they be religious or political.

Which is why you debate said views. You don't just claim that people with the opposite view are…

Anyway...I'm of for an early dinner

I think this is the point I was trying to make at the beginning (and not too well I can tell). If you are for the war, you'll jump on good peer-research and if…

looking back at our time of Empire I suppose our "away game" was the fighting on the Somme and at Passchendaele

Except that those places are in France and Belgium, which the Germans had invaded and we were helping the French/Belgians try and repulse them.

I guess a better comparison…

I think there's a limit to how long it's possible to go on denying the research.

Swap possible for tenable in there. Clearly it's possible since James Bremner does it every time he speaks on the subject.

The ORB estimate of 1.22 million is very close to Lancet 2 updated according to the IBC body count timeline – 1.16 million. So they reinforce each other.

We now have four survey estimates from three independent teams…

You forget that America is 'without peer'.

I don't think you can slap the 'peer review' big boy on it either. There have been many studies with 'peer reviews' that have turned out to be less than credible.

Peer review is the best method we have for ascertaining that research is correct. It simply means having other…

Pogrom = Russians v Jews

Actually, pogrom is used more widely than that; for example to refer to Polish massacres and explusions of Jews.

I don't think, infact I am sure the US did not anticipate Al Qaeda showing up in Iraq the way they did,

And in another, on a different sub-topic, he says...

But you can make reasonable predictions can't you? In fact you need to, don't…

It would be informative if you could expand on this.

I found The Nation article I was thinking of – Persian Ghosts

I disagree with some aspects of its analysis but it has a good and I think reliable account of the history of tensions in Iraq.

This may have been true a year ago – its not any…

Russell, I'm not sure pulling out surveys helps in the 'truth' process. There have been other figures eg from the Iraqi Hospital records which put deaths at a much less figure.

Hospitals would only record the deaths of those who actually died in the hospital, while under medical observation. That…

It would be informative if you could expand on this.

Fair point Alex.

I've done some reading on Iraq history which indicates a long standing, complex and antagonistic relationship between the Sunni and Shiites of Iraq. Most of that is not really the "fault" of anyone. One of the reasons…

Highlights:

Top Democratic lawmakers sent letters to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice demanding answers over reports that Blackwater, which protects US diplomats in Baghdad, had been offered protection from prosecution when the State Department investigated the September 16 shooting....

...The New York Times said…

That said, I take your point and do not use the phrase as a way of…

ethnic cleansing

This bugs me. Can we call it what it is, please? Pogrom. Genocide. "Ethnic clensing" was a euphemism invented by Milosovic's mob to try and downplay their murderous ways.

Agreed Andrew.

For a while I was backing the occupation (not the war mind you) as…

Iraq has its own history which provides enough reason for the current sectarian violence. Placing the emphasis too strongly on US actions runs the risk of not recognizing the dynamics of Iraqi politics.

It would be informative if you could expand on this. Otherwise it's just dressing up an…

Placing the emphasis too strongly on US actions runs the risk of not recognizing the dynamics of Iraqi politics.

Those dynamics were known in advance, but I agree the focus should be on resolving the problem rather than rehashing arguments about the cause.

May G*d have mercy on his soul.

…

Funny how one of the key people who tried to cover up My Lai is also the same bloke who waved a vial of white powder around at the UN in order to mislead the world about ficticious…

The most telling thing against the occupation is the sheer number of Americans who predicted that it could cause Iraq to implode.

The US invasion was only partly responsible for that implosion. Iraq has its own history which provides enough reason for the current sectarian violence. Placing the emphasis too…

How many people would have been killed by Saddam if he was still in power? A lower number, but the country and its people have a chance of a decent future now

"It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it." Where have I heard that before?

A lower number, but the country and its people have a chance of a decent future now

Meh. Its hard to have a future if you're dead, I suppose.

The most telling thing against the occupation is the sheer number of Americans who predicted that it could cause Iraq to…

on the other hand, its nice and sunny outside

And it's Halloween!

Laugh at the fictional horror, because the real horror is sometimes unbearable.

Yup, if the news continues in this pattern it can only get better – when Iraq is completely depopulated, and there is no one left to kill.

ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant...

Russell, I'm not sure pulling out surveys helps in the 'truth' process. There have been other figures eg from the Iraqi Hospital records which put deaths at a much less figure.

The Lancet study used established methodology, the same as has been used to assess the toll in many other…

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/231587/4/

The study has been extrapolated to indicate that now there would be some 1.2 million deaths. This number closely parallels other estimates...

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/the_war_in_iraq_/2007/06/the_deaths_in_the_pottery_barn.php

it is better to play an away game than a home game

What a revolting use of sports metaphor. Kind of makes you understand people wanting to play for the other team.

but the country and its people have a chance of a decent future now,

I'm sure women being beaten and murdered for wanting to attend schools and hold down jobs would be happy to discuss that perspective with you.

But you can make reasonable predictions can't you? In fact you need to, don't you?

You can, but you don't treat them as facts. There are many other possible outcomes than the ones you mentioned, and the probabilities are all highly debatable.

Fema official regrets fake press conference

On Monday the stunt cost a Fema official his job. John Philbin, who planned to leave Fema anyway to become press officer for the director of national intelligence, told CBS television he regretted the charade. "I should have…

"Thank god we're not playing Fuck up the Middle East at the Superdome!" A bit repulsive even.

Well, it certainly makes it a bit hard for anyone who isn't a complete hypocrite (as well as being a worthless piece of shit) to complain about Saudi Arabian terrorists deciding to blow…

I forget when it came out but if you divided the total by the number of months it came to a completely silly monthly death toll, which…

Can I just say even if James does bring his pompoms, the PAS Women's XV will not be playing an away game in Iraq any time…

A bit repulsive even.

Just a little, yes.

I don't think, infact I am sure the US did not anticipate Al Qaeda showing up in Iraq the way they did

Odd,given that Cheney said on June14,2004 that "he (Saddam Hussein ) had long established ties with al Qaeda.". This was backed up by Bush two days later and…

U.S. military leaders in Baghdad have put out for bid a two-year, $20 million public relations contract that calls for extensive monitoring of U.S. and Middle Eastern media in an effort to promote more positive coverage of news from Iraq.

Only vaguely related in a 'how stupidly funny is this'…

that's like saying it would have been nice if they had cured your brain tumour, but your nasty rash has cleared up.

That's because no one actually knows.

You are absolutely right, no one actually knows what would have happened if Saddam was still in power. But you can make reasonable predictions can't you? In fact you need to, don't you?

How the is any country supposed to run itself other…

Iraq Body Count has 76k to 83k dead since 2003 due to military or paramilitary activity.

IBC isn't a study or a survey, it's a summary of news reporting.

The Lancet surveys — the only peer-reviewed study of deaths associated with the Iraq war — find 650,000 "excess deaths" (this…

Probably with the same general deafening silence that is shown by most US publications in letting Americans know about their invasion and genocidal subjugation of the Phillipines between 1899-1902.

I would like to note that American historians are, in general, rather a well-informed bunch, and spend quite a lot of…

The other aspect no one pays much attention to is what would be the situation in the Middle East if Saddam was still in power today.

That's because no one actually knows. But you've got your story, the old WMDs eh? They're still there man, just gotta look harder.

Iraqi casualties down more than 75% from 3500 in Nov 06 to 804 in Sep 07.

Are the dead being counted now? Who is doing the counting?

US casualties down from 126 in May 07 to 36 in Sept 07 despite more troops on the ground and an increased operational…

Have you been paying attention to what has been going on in Iraq, or do you get your news on Iraq solely from Fox?

The Al Qaeda war in Iraq is unlikely to have exploded into what it did without the massive destabilisation caused by the US invasion. Saddam…

Here's a question for your good news? How many casualties were there in Iraq in Sept 01 and 02? Civilian, terrorist, Iraq military and American breakdown would be good. That might put it in perspective.

Also, how big was Al Quaeda in…

The sanctions would be off, Saddam would be cranking up his nuke programs just as fast as he could, just like the other set…

Have you been paying attention to what has been going on in Iraq, or do you get your news on Iraq solely from Mother Jones?

Read the link I posted.

Iraq Body Count has 76k to 83k dead since 2003 due to military or paramilitary activity.

millions are on the run...

No doubt about that. Most of those are Sunnis. Their leaders made a very bad decisions in…

Conflating the so called "war on terror"…

Will US history books ever acknowledge this monumental (on every level) cock up??

Probably with the same general deafening silence that is shown by most US publications in letting Americans know about their invasion and genocidal subjugation of the Phillipines between 1899-1902.

The blueprint of the American way of counter-insurgency…

I think we can safely assume women would, in general, have been in a considerably better position than they are now, given the old repressive regime was considerably less mysogynistic than the current one.

Yes, depressingly. But Andrew Smith was talking about the long term. The current conflict of Sunnis…

The judgement rests on the counter factual of how things would have evolved in Iraq had the invasion not occured.

I think we can safely assume women would, in general, have been in a considerably better position than they are now, given the old repressive regime was considerably less mysogynistic…

History is still unfolding in Iraq. I still reserve my judgement on whether the intervention there was good.

So what's your take on the French Revolution? Too early to tell?

you get 'squirrel's watersking' type lame jokes

Look, if you seriously think the jury is still out on the disastrous nature of this conflict, I'm hardly going to bother with anything *other* than a lame joke at the expense of Pollyanna newsmakers, am I?

The Left, generally, have always been hell-bent on proving the neo-cons incorrect in invading Iraq.

Somehow I think pointing out that, over a million Iraqi have died...millions are on the run...and the place is dysfuntional to an ungovernable degree , is worth an effort.If only to find out what the…

And the eventual outcome will be an Iranian backed Government enforcing Sharia Law (and cancelling all those sweetheart Oil Contracts the US put in place before leaving).

This is probably a best-case scenario. Although Iran's leadership is crap, the populace aren't – after all, only 1% can be bothered to…

I still reserve my judgement on whether the intervention there was good.

That's not really a great position. If one has any faith in human nature left then one would expect Iraq to become a better place after some period of time. But there has been high price paid.

The…

Yes, in a thousand years, who will care?

Has an Iraqi squirrel learned to waterski?

If it did you would here about it first from
the winners of this contract

U.S. military leaders in Baghdad have put out for bid a two-year, $20 million public relations contract that calls for extensive monitoring of U.S. and Middle Eastern media…

Yeah, logisticly they could do it no problem but they know darn well what would happen if they pulled out. Absolute civil war. Massive civillian deaths (much worse than now). And that would (will) be on their heads.

I'm with what Ben said on this. I keep finding parallels in…

Anyway thats enough linkwhoring

Thanks Sonic. Yes I knew the link would be in there somehere. I was just too lazy to look for it. :)

Yeah, logisticly they could do it no problem but they know darn well what would happen if they pulled out. Absolute civil war. Massive civillian deaths (much worse than now). And that would (will) be on their heads.

It's a possibility. It's also a possibility, which I don't see as…

He wrestles with his conscence but somehow still wins

http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/2007/10/credit-where-it-is-due.html

Anyway thats enough linkwhoring

;)

Thank you, sir – that just got a permanent spot on my bookmarks.

If you are looking for positive news, it's also there.

Has an Iraqi squirrel learned to waterski?

http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/2007/10/back-to-iraq.html

Hitchens can still do poignant though.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/hitchens200711?currentPage=1

If you are looking for bad news on Iraq, you will find it. If you are looking for postive news, it's also there. Depends which side of the fence your are on.

Is the fence keeping me in...or out?

I would love to see some links to some 'positive' Iraqi…

You is still the man Russell
I took the liberty

I'll point out a local Iraqi wire agency that is increasingly posting dispatches in English.

Great link!

I took the liberty

http://christopherhitchenswatch.blogspot.com/2007/10/back-to-iraq.html

But even volunteer soldiers should be able to trust those…

The mainstream U.S. media continues its effective news blackout on Iraq security developments, with the remaining scant coverage devoted to partisan "Iraq policy" debate on the domestic front. And in this case, no news means…

Volunteer members of armies that invaded another nation, fueled by a pack of lies, and are responsible,…

Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of "ordering and authorizing" torture...

The exercise of universal jurisdiction is looking like a trend:

George W. Bush currently enjoys official immunity from prosecution, as a serving government official. Come January 2009, he might very well forego…

Yup, if the news continues in this pattern it can only get better – when Iraq is completely depopulated, and there is no one left to kill.

God Iraq is depressing.

tell me about it. what more can be said?

on the other hand, its nice and sunny outside

Militiamen in BMWs rode around the neighborhood with megaphones, demanding that residents evacuate.

Never again, huh?