Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Madness in Mt Albert

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  • George Darroch,

    Still, enough of attacking Norman for his place of birth. He's a citizen, so just as much a New Zealander as any other.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Still, enough of attacking Norman for his place of birth. He's a citizen, so just as much a New Zealander as any other.

    George, you make a fair point, however I feel Dr Norman's drawn attention to his claim to be candidate when challenging Shearer's. But I've made my point, I'll move on.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch,

    George, you make a fair point, however I feel Dr Norman's drawn attention to his claim to be candidate when challenging Shearer's. But I've made my point, I'll move on.

    Well, given Norman's lack of connection with the electorate, the Greens are in no position to attack other candidates as carpetbaggers, certainly. If they do, they deserve to be on the receiving end of some pretty sharp criticism.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    *cough* Well, I get rather bored with whats-her-face on Checkpoint I'm just waiting for someone to just snap and tell her, "I didn't give you the answer you want the first dozen times you screeched that incredibly stupid leading question, so why don't you fuck off?"

    Craig - I know what you mean - I suppose I might find it endearing of the person who snaps as well - but in the end we'll probaby just have to acknowledge that what's rather endearing to me is boring to you and possibly vice versa.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    No Right Turn has a useful post on the dual-candidacy issue, in response to Colin Espiner's column pointing at that in the case of National, Act and the Greens, the people of Mt Albert will vote for one candidate -- and bring a completely different person into Parliament if their candidate wins.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Thanks for that link Russell. Espiner's piece is very good, I/S's piece is superb.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Meanwhile, I'd be wary about the claims that there was some miscarriage of the popular will in Shearer being selected, and that he didn't win the floor vote at the meeting.

    Tane at the Standard says:

    The only thing I’d add is that Norman’s line about Shearer being imposed by Labour’s central office is a flat out lie, and he knows it. I’ve long been a critic of Labour’s selection processes, but the fact is Shearer’s selection was unanimous among the six delegates on the selection panel (half head office, half local party) and he won the floor vote by a clear majority in a field of eight candidates. That’s a pretty clear mandate by any standard.

    Meanwhile, Whaleoil is all over it, claiming his "Labour spies" have told him Shearer lost the floor vote (but only after he's read it in the comment at The Standard that contradicted Tane's post). My inclination is to be sceptical, and my suspicion is that there has been some trolling going on in lefty blogs.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And meanwhile on the Herald website ...

    National is holding a meeting in Auckland suburb Mt Albert this evening to select its candidate - but someone in the party has already decided who it is going to be.

    The National Party Mainland Conference agenda lists Mt Albert candidate MP Melissa Lee as a speaker.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Meanwhile, Whaleoil is all over it, claiming his "Labour spies" have told him Shearer lost the floor vote (but only after he's read it in the comment at The Standard that contradicted Tane's post).

    The only Labour "spies" to be talking to Whaleoil will be either imaginery or stupid.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    So the Labour process is that:
    - the head office choose a candidate, with overridable input from the local party
    - the elected candidates (who become MPs) choose the leader
    - the leader appoints the head office

    That right?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    So the Labour process is that:
    - the head office choose a candidate, with overridable input from the local party
    - the elected candidates (who become MPs) choose the leader
    - the leader appoints the head office

    That right?

    To be a little less cynical Rich o O, and from my quick reading of the Labour Party's Constitution and Rules it's more like this: voters choose the MPs, the elected MPs choose their leader (who of course is also elected by the voters.) For selection of candidates, the New Zealand Council (18 elected positions and one appointed Gen Sec) choose a team of three with three votes. The electorate has four votes - one of which is the vote from the floor. If people in the electorate get themselves organised they can certainly overturn the NZ Council's rep's vote. Can you suggest a better system?

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    A long time ago before Michael Cullen and Helen were even MPs there was some lively and extensive discussion about how to make the LP selection process more democratic and transparent, and give the locals more say. It must have been during the time of Jim Anderton's reforming time as president. So the current system started. I recall that if you could had a certain number of electorate members you could get that 3rd panel person (otherwise it was two) and it was an incentive to keep the membership up and active. With the additional straw vote the local most popular candidate was almost assured of selection. Anyone who was a paid up electorate member at a certain date previously - so as not to have a whole lot of new members signed up just for one candidate - could come along and vote for the local panel members and the straw vote. For some reason I was one of the panellists when Fran Wilde was selected for Wellington Central in 1980 - can't remember how that happened (maybe because I was young and hadn't yet made many enemies.) Anyhow I do remember it was a long night in a crowded hall but a pretty popular outcome and the system seemed to work.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3227 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Can you suggest a better system?

    One member, one vote?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    Can you suggest a better system?

    One member, one vote?

    Eventually though, aren't you going to have to trust the people you elect - allow them to take some responsibility, or is our life going to be an endless procession of polling booths. We wouldn't get a hell of a lot done. I can certainly think of better ways to spend my life.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    Or - Rich - are you promoting meeting stacking in preference to organising. That's certainly how the Nazis did it - and how Richard Prebble thumped the guts out of Auckland Central in the late 80s.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The only Labour "spies" to be talking to Whaleoil will be either imaginery or stupid.

    Just as I rather doubt The Standard's National Party "sources" are anything more than a dollop of shit-stirring. Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I remember the good old days when you'd actually STFU about floor votes at selection meetings.

    And meanwhile on the Herald website ...

    *sigh* Projection rules?

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    Just as I rather doubt The Standard's National Party "sources" are anything more than a dollop of shit-stirring. Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I remember the good old days when you'd actually STFU about floor votes at selection meetings.

    Well, not to be ageist about it but (a) I'm a little older than you and (b) the others are sooo much older than both of us... but yeah!

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    So the Labour process is that:
    - the head office choose a candidate, with overridable input from the local party
    - the elected candidates (who become MPs) choose the leader
    - the leader appoints the head office

    That right?

    I've never had too much of a problem with the votes from the party even though I have to say several of head office's selections have been complete failures (John Tamihere anyone). The point is that the process is known and stable and Labour's haven't recently resulted in court cases. Incidentally, the process here in NSW, both Labor and Liberal, is a frankly corrupt.

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    The Herald's scoop on Melissa Lee's perfidious pre-selection -- also breathlessly run in Nightline tonight, with Goff gleefully offering comments --appears to be bollocks.

    Perhaps now someone can run a, y'know, valid story.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The Herald's scoop on Melissa Lee's perfidious pre-selection -- also breathlessly run in Nightline tonight, with Goff gleefully offering comments --appears to be bollocks.

    O'Herald outsources credibility to Bangalore. Again.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    To be fair the Lee "scoop" was an NZPA one. This serves as an apology and correction in this morning's story about Lee's selection:

    Labour seized on National Party documents yesterday that called Ms Lee "Mt Albert's list MP", saying this meant a backroom deal was done before last night's selection meeting.

    Prime Minister John Key said the fact she was referred to as a list MP meant she was simply the buddy MP for Mt Albert, a system National had in place for other electorates. He would be happy to work with whoever was selected

    Much as Phil Twyford is Labour's buddy MP for Auckland Central.

    On the evidence of her interview on RNZ this morning, Ms Lee talks very fast and could become annoying on repeated exposure. But her rejoicing in the Greens' presence in the race -- because that might let her win! -- was certainly bracingly frank.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    On the evidence of her interview on RNZ this morning, Ms Lee talks very fast and could become annoying on repeated exposure.

    "You know, people have concerns... yes, they are concerned about that, you know, but there are other concerns. You know."

    It could get a little annoying, yeah.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    To be fair the Lee "scoop" was an NZPA one.

    Oh... that's OK then. It would be unreasonable to expect the Herald to exercise any editorial judgment over wire copy, when they've pretty much given up with their own.

    On the evidence of her interview on RNZ this morning, Ms Lee talks very fast and could become annoying on repeated exposure.

    If anyone is tempted to brush off the Wansy Pong cracks, don't.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Most likely just simple nerves, although from what I heard I wasn't overly impressed with her grasp of local issues. Will have to track down the full interview again in the evening to be sure, along with all more info on the other candidates before I cast my vote.

    I didn't vote for Musuku last time but it's hard not to feel a little sorry for the guy.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Double posting for an interesting post from Tumeke (with hat tip to Danyl's Dim-Post).

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

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