First thing Mick Jagger said was for everyone to please turn off their cell phones now.

I don't even remember that. I was too busy trying not to tip off the 90 degree-angled hillock upon which I was sitting. I was also recovering from my Nickelback-induced nausea.

someone dancing in the stand, blocking peoples view, pissing people off, abusing the staff, then drunkenly tripping and going base over apex down two rows of seats...

...is not what Russell was talking about. He's just asking why, at a rock concert in a GA area where you could reasonably…

I once did a Tina Turner concert in Kuala Lumpur... no dancing; the ushers had guns... not that I would advocate that as a solution.

Russell; yes, in GA all is good, but perhaps with a little more…

But the other reason is that it hurts my ears – literally. It's not the music – it's the ear-splitting volume. Even small jazz gigs bother me.

I have a theory that almost all sound-mixing people have gone to so many concerts with too high a volume that they're partially…

It's okay to sell front-and-centre seats for Simon & Garfunkel for top dollar. I doubt there'll be a clash of expectations at that show ;-)

Really? Because I totally expect that there will be some awkward frugging if they play Cecilia or even some wild interperative dance to __Bridge Over Troubled…

And GA doesn't excuse inconsiderate behaviour from either side.

Depends. I understand the points you're making Mark, but I think at a GA event such as the Stones, I don't think it reasonable to expect people to remain seated throughout the evening. Music and dancing are pretty closely correlated (which…

Think of the shorties, people. Any flat-floored show means that I almost *never* get a decent view of a concert I've paid for.

Seconded. I'm just not a mosh-pit type (other people's armpits lack appeal)

That's probably one reason I seldom go to big concerts. But the other reason is…

Mark you should have been there

Not really the point. I'm well aware of what Russell is talking about, but he seems to unable to grasp what I'm talking about.

And GA doesn't excuse inconsiderate behaviour from either side.

SORTED!

Exactly.

Well, not for everything. It's okay to sell front-and-centre seats for Simon & Garfunkel for top dollar. I doubt there'll be a clash of expectations at that show ;-)

But that's not the same thing as thinking you can buy a GA ticket and have everyone else do your bidding.

But you're okay with expecting others to do your bidding by not objecting to your behaviour? Interesting differentiation. Maybe it is all about you...

SORTED!

Exactly.

While I agree that people have been known to dance at gigs, my point is that their desire to do so is untempered by any recognition of the effect their behaviour has on people around them. Hence, "selfish pricks"

We were extremely considerate at Lucinda: we even waited for a…

See, that's what selfish pricks always resort to, because you want it your way and no other. "If you don't want to rock out LIKE ME, you shouldn't be here". Wow.

No, I'm saying: if you expect to buy a ticket to an unseated area at a rock concert and…

Conflict between two self-centred motivations is guaranteed in some situations. Nothing wrong with the motivations, though I agree the subsequent behaviour can be problematic.

Oh, I didn't realise it was self-centred to buy a seat to a show and then expect to sit in it. Silly me.

That doesn't relieve people of responsiblity for their behaviour but it is entirely predictable that friction will arise in the situation described above. It's a gig. People have been known to dance at them. That will piss off people seated behind and around them.

While I agree that people have…

This would mean no more gigs there, except maybe all-seater ones......

Not necessarily. You can get auditorium seating that is relatively easy to clear. It's a question of design.

Ah, see that was my little joke.
But you are right, you can get auditorium seating that is easy to clear,…

And sitting down (and, in this case, throwing sticks and things at people who don't comply with your desires) isn't "behaviour"?

Of course it's behaviour. You seem to think that the word "behaviour" is pejorative. Take two dictionaries and call me in the morning. I would class throwing sticks and…

So, you're saying that people aren't responsible if their behaviour is not suitable to a venue?

Let's not go either/or on this one too. Environments affect the choices people can and do make. That approach underpins crime prevention through environmental design (CPTED) and its injury prevention sister, IPTED.

That doesn't…

Some do actually. You may be surprised to find that often there is consideration for disabled.A specific entrance to specific seating. Thing is, ASK!

I think this is extremely important, and it took too long for it to be properly done at the Big Day Out — but they do…

I'm confused now.

Sorry, Steve, I forgot how easily that happens for you. ;-)

Do you mean "if you think other peoples enjoyment is as important as your own then you are a selfish prick"? or "Don't be a selfish prick, think of other people's enjoyment as being as important…

All right, if you want it in words of less than three syllables: Don't be a selfish prick and think of other people's enjoyment as being as important as your own.

I'm not being a selfish prick. I'm simply wondering why one group of people that chooses to sit down…

This would mean no more gigs there, except maybe all-seater ones......

Not necessarily. You can get auditorium seating that is relatively easy to clear. It's a question of design.

I wish Those In Charge would pull their heads out of their asses and refurbish it. What's the latest plan, anyway? Closed forever, soon to be demolished?

By sheer chance: I was walking past the St James yesterday and saw a notice pinned up on the door. It said that…

Mark, if venues are set up with both dancing and seated areas, no problem. Without, friction. Bugger all that individual punters can do about that on the night – the decision is up to those who run the event and design the venue.

So, you're saying that people aren't responsible…

there's only no "and" because the concert promoters, venue designers, etc have made it that way. Things will change, whether they like it or not.

Sacha, there's only no "and" because some choose to behave in a way that doesn't permit it. Promoters could think harder, but that doesn't excuse…

Standing up at a rock 'n' roll show is "behaviour"?

All right, if you want it in words of less than three syllables: Don't be a selfish prick and think of other people's enjoyment as being as important as your own.

Yes, standing up is "behaviour". What else could you…

The way the last Rolling Stones show at Western Springs was sold was bloody scandalous. It was half-empty in the premium circle down in front,

'ang on a min.....Our entourage took up entirely Row 2, which was excellent for visual and all the bouncers dealt with the row in front…

I can understand for some that that implies some movement, but I fail to see why "They shouldn't have been at a friggin' Stones show if they didn't want to dance" is seen as justification for behaviour that impinges on other people's right of enjoyment.

I thought Mark meant the…

I can understand for some that that implies some movement, but I fail to see why "They shouldn't have been at a friggin' Stones show if they didn't want to dance" is seen as justification for behaviour that impinges on other people's right of enjoyment.

Standing up at a rock…

If I have paid for a seat and I don't want to, or can't stand up and dance, and the person in front of me does, I have two choices – see nothing or leave and when I have spent something around…

What does "guitar scorched" even mean?

I'm glad you asked Sacha.
Well. I would deconstruct that as a Metaphorical Simile.
As in being similar to something that has been on the less temperate end of a hot, or scorching, guitar lick, If you will.
Touched by the glowing ember of…

you are disabled and so can only dance on the inside (in which case you should buy the DVD and stay home, eh, Gareth?)

Sigh

=(

The problem I find, and see on this thread, is that you either must not be into the music if you don't dance, (in which case why…

Oh, so they are on the list then?

To be fair, the Western Springs hill is so steep that anyone with mobility issues would never be on it anyway. (Which is a whole other problem, I suppose.)

They shouldn't have been at a friggin' Stones show if they didn't want to dance.

Oh, so they are on the list then?

"Yes it is real and yes that is blood."

Heh. Probly means DPF and PC got stick-ons at about the same time.

LMFAO
Don't ask how I came across this

I can't help but feel that a man more confident in his manliness would have to keep saying things like: "Yes it is real and yes that is blood."

This guy then alternated between calling for blood any time anyone got up to dance in the middle aisle and getting up there himself. What a tw*t.

Gawd. No one who spends that much time being angry can actually appreciate a show like that.

I also forgot to mention the…

In my world if you're at the front in a seat and the crowd stands up then you stand up with them. And if you are unable to stand up then you should buy a ticket in the stands/circle/whatever.

An ideal solution... why can't people in either area show that…

Is it just me, or does Whaleoil's embarrassing "Trophy Page" resemble a certain other, icky genre emitted by lonely men? Sorry. Just sayin' …

LMFAO

Don't ask how I came across this

Think of the shorties, people.

I should add, as a humungously tall person, I feel uncomfortable standing with people behind me at concerts and whatnot, and always try to stand at the back or side so that I'm not blocking someone's view.

It's a terrible clash with my girlfriend, who…

Of course, this was at The Wiggles. Who – and I'd like this to go on the record here – were EXCELLENT.…

Not that easy in a library, surely. :)

Once, I was shushed by a library patron. :)

Grrrrr.

Well it is a wet Monday, and this board has been being far too quiet and conciliatory

I babble when things get tense

Not that easy in a library, surely. :)

Clearly, when you need to dance, there are some awesome things you can do with a wheelchair.

Quite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfyosGOuED8&feature=related

I absolutely understand you desiring a seat where you can get a decent view of a concert you've paid for

Think of the shorties, people. Any flat-floored show means that I almost *never* get a decent view of a concert I've paid for. At The Kills I spent the first…

Roger I presume you are not 100% able bodied? Perhaps in a…

I think the point is that gigs should provide for the entirely predictable needs of their diverse audiences – some of whom will want to sit with an uninterrupted view while others wish a bit o getting down. Not that hard to keep both sets of people happy, surely?

Sacha...…

But James Brown! Come on man!

OK... can I have a copy of the list of performers that the disabled can't attend? Just so I know.

Gareth, don't under-rate the dancin on the inside.

Indeed. And I did actually think about my frustrated groove in terms of someone who has no choice but to dance sitting down.

One of the happier things I've seen all year was a young bloke in a wheelchair havin' it large…

Yes, some concerts are better served by a well designed floorplan that lets each to their own, as I believe you've agreed. But James Brown!…

Thus loosening the ceiling plaster that fell in large chunks at later gigs? I miss that place.

It's an absolutely lovely theatre with gorgeous detailing. I wish Those In Charge would pull their heads out of their asses and refurbish it. What's the latest plan, anyway? Closed forever, soon to…

Point taken however. Perhaps you should simply buy the DVD of concerts though?

Ah... so people who are not fully able-bodied should be excluded then? Perhaps they should just stay at home so that they do not disturb the proper people. Nice.

If someone charges me for a 'seat' I…

Point taken however. Perhaps you should simply buy the DVD of concerts though?

James Brown refused to continue playing until everyone on the upper floor of the St James was up and dancing.

Yes, so that would have been a full refund for me then? As they say, yeah right... just a ruined night

Just to get in before more blog conspiracies swirl – soon after I left NBR, the management did "cleanse" all my previous op-ed pieces from the site and its archives, without consulting me or asking if I wanted copies.

So, you know, if anyone printed out these now valuable collectors'…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa0Wajk8vF0

James Brown refused to continue playing until everyone on the upper floor of the St James was up and dancing.

Thus loosening the ceiling plaster that fell in large chunks at later gigs? I miss that place.

But the circle is not for dancing EVER.

I should note that the big guy was standing at the top of the aisle and didn't seem to be blocking anyone's view. That was kinda the irony. It was much easier for people in the circle to get up and dance…

But the circle is not for dancing EVER.

James Brown refused to continue playing until everyone on the upper floor of the St James was up and dancing.

So, Ben, do you get to retrospectively 'cleanse' the NBR's website and archives of material under your byline that doesn't now 'make sense'

Just to get in before more blog conspiracies swirl – soon after I left NBR, the management did "cleanse" all my previous op-ed pieces from the site…

But big ups to the big bloke in the blue shirt, who rocked out up in the Circle all night

A contrary view, (to a point)...

When I have paid $100, $200 or $300 for a seat at a concert, I expect to be able to watch it and listen…

This was not, it must be said, a young crowd. I'm 46, and there were plenty of people older than me (including, it should be noted, the singer herself, who is looking fine at 55). And we (mostly) all sat there, our bums anchored, twitching urgently in position.

Wellington was…

I don't quite get the outrage about this from various quarters. Trotter wrote a piece that made sense to him at the time, that he later thought better of, and he decided to take it off the page where resides the writing that does reflect his views.

So, Ben, do…

By removing it but nothing else it was still out there, with no disclaimer or notice attached.

In general, I think an annotation about what you've removed is a good idea.

I had to take out a couple of things from the Veitch thread over the weekend (one nasty, the…

The first surely. Apart from anything else, as I think I/S pointed out, taking it off his site doesn't make it disappear from the internet, so if he really wants to disown it, he actually needs to make a positive move to say "the writing that used to be…

I don't want the thread to get bogged down…

If he's thinking of it not as a whitewash but simply no longer distributinga particular (internet) publication, then what he's doing makes a manner of sense.

I suppose so, but as everyone else is pointing out, it's the manner of it. He's terribly fond of denouncing other people ...

I understand the point about the platform. I just don't understand what significance attaches to his decision to pull a piece he was unhappy with. Unless what…

But when that happens, and you've published the former opinion, the only thing to do is admit you've changed your mind, and say why. I respect that, and I suspect most right-thinking people would too. Pretending you never had the previous opinion is just lame.

Exactly. It's not that you've…

Most writers don't display their drafts, notebooks etc – why should something on a blog be treated differently?

Well, once you've blogged something, it's published. Anyone can read a blog. If you want a private blog, you can restrict login, but short of that your thoughts are now public property.…

And Trotter? I'm astonished. Quietly deleting your own posts when they don't suit your present argument doesn't work in the age of the Google cache, and advancing a rationale after you've been caught doing it doesn't help.

I don't quite get the outrage about this from various quarters. Trotter wrote…

The console biz seems to have conquered that cycle, though?

I understand Campbell's argument, but I wonder how long we can dwell on the apparently laudable intentions with which Bainimarama seized power in 2006, over his bullying and destructive actions of the past week and a half

And I wonder how many pundits will note the irony of presenting themselves…

I had that catch-in-the-throat moment too--the song with the refrain "unlock my heart" (can't remember the song title).

'Unsuffer Me' from West .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHAhnAxhyGc

Spine-tingling.

I never realised I was supposed to choose which camp I belonged in. I thought I was just a journalist.

About time, Deborah. Unfortunately not all journalists share that view, yet.

Little Rock Star was a cracker on the night, probably my fave ...

Oh yes. But Russell Baillie didn't think so:

She and her backers produced plenty of guitar-scorched thrills but just occasionally turned bludgeoning plod on some of her lesser numbers like the Amy Winehouse/Pete Doherty-inspired Little Rock Star ...

…

You might be able to think of a product that enjoyed such utter dominance this far into a market, but I'm stumped.

Someone told me about their dad in the late 70s who attended a meeting of TV folks, advertisers, manufuacturers, etc., to address the problem that anyone who was…

as if she were singing an old Atlantic soul tune

Ooooohhh, want.

Tyrant or crusader against corrupt democracry?

Apparently there are murmurings from exiled former military leaders that Mr Bananarama doesn't enjoy quite 100% support within the barracks. However the natural and rather bloody end to that sort of intra-army clash…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kd3Y-anRlM