If an offender was coming up for a release and possibly early for good behaviour, to then put that person back through a process to rejail them would render the early release useless.
That is my understanding that Judith Collin’s was suggesting on tv3 last night. To…

source for that?

I was a victim of sexual abuse as a child. I have had a young family member recently complete a programme as an offender. Let me tell you, finding out about…

That particular case has already been made, successfully. It is possible for adults to apply to have the order suppressing publication of their…

It's not a comparison with non-offenders. It's a comparison between offenders who did the programme, and offenders who didn't.…

And just what would *that* be, Dexter X?

And your authority to be able to diagnose this hitherto unknown condition?

Sunny Mt Roskill, where all the children are angelic and play hopscotch in the falling blossom.
:-)

Steve, pray tell, where do you live?
Where I live, teenagers bullying each other to death has become enough of a problem that no lesser beings than the Chief Coroner and the Law Commission are proposing curtailment of electronic expression to try and stem the…

And it doesn't stop there, of course. "Three strikes" and mandatory minimum sentences — both of which play to public hysteria — have, with the assistance of lunatic prosecutors, done a great job of putting thousands of the wrong people in jail for…

What about Crimestoppers' 0800 line? Any good or bad experiences from that?

Both sides have ended up on sex offender registers for "child porn" offences involving sexting, because they're both under the age of consent for pornographic participation, too. The US situation is utterly fucking ridiculous.

I use that information relatively regularly, actually. It's all in the…

When I…

No, but they are used sparingly and very, very, very rarely on matters criminal. Even the retroactive authorisation of police surveillance (which wasn't about punishment or criminality) triggered a whole lot of angst because it was retroactive, without getting…

Yes, the majority of civilised people, including teenagers, are not that nasty but then I don't come from a pit that things crawl from.
None taken...

It would hardly be the first or only retroactive law change, but I defer to others…

Uh, what?
Here's the thing: consenting individuals get to choose who they let into their sexual histories. Who, how, what, etc, it's up to them to decide who knows. Publishing the details of those who have been sexually assaulted removes from them any choice in…

We agree on that point. The strawmen not so much.

Ugh. What an awful situation.

I think this is the key point. This is something to which the rest of…

I suggest you look into some of the other things that victims of sexual assault frequently suffer from before blithely talking about it being all down to society deeming them to be "defiled and…

Estimates of how many abusers are caught and convicted vary, but are…

The fact that they are victims means that it is already too late for that, someone has already imposed their will and…

There was a famous case here in Chch where automatic name suppression of…

Assuming the definition is the same as that for the untreated control group, it does show…

Uh, there are legal requirements around sexual offending and juveniles. The wishes of the victims are irrelevant in those cases.
You may be right, but you also seem very willing to jump to…

This is the bit that gets me, why should the victims need protecting from public knowledge? they are victims. I find it quite sickening that society still treats the victims of sexual assault as…

I had a quick browse, but not thorough read of that report, but I…

Which in turn leads the faith-based dogmatists to jump to conclusions that bringing back the military draft and foisting intelligent design on schools is the silver…

We might be safe from him, but one of the reasons that retroactive changes to law are such a dangerous step is that these lines tend to be crossed once and then it's no…

Great, let's pile some more brutality in there. Wilson's apparent psychopathy might mean that he is effectively beyond help, but that doesn't justify brutalising him in turn.

The answer (as Sacha alluded…

That’s pretty much what we…

I honestly can’t follow your meaning there.

But if anyone’s interested, the Howard…

We (royally) are less likely to call for harsher sentences and more prisons…

More likely because identifying him would lead to people "in the know" identifying his possible victims. The privacy of victims of sexual offending is paramount, especially where children (you speak of girls) are involved.

Crime state are based on reporeted rather than actual. Crime rates are a long run politically manipulated stat – an example being more resources are put into policing and the crime stat goes up – fewer resoruces are applied and the crime stat goes down.

If he was back in mainstream prison ,he would also be attacked as is inmate justice. The odd code that exists inside would see him in a situation befitting his…

On the one hand, this would solve a problem. On the other, it would validate vigilante violence as a solution.

But no one…

I'm sure they'e genuine sentiments, but to be honest I've been a bit shocked by a few things said in…

I don't think anyone's saying that and I'm sorry…

Well, that’s up to you I suppose. But an actual study of outcomes from STOP and two other programmes found an average recidivism rate…

Ok , I know what you mean. I don't know what is the answer for this man. We have PD now so at least the likes of him will be now incarcerated forever and will he and the consequent…

So, can you pass on this info Jackie. Keep telling the Police your concerns…

The one thing that bothers me most is, the extent of injuries suggest to me he is more than woefully inadequate. Breaking anyone’s bones, and especially a 4 month old ( plus the wee ones…

Home detention in response to…

Being a free citizen in a democracy I feel I am entitled to express…

You go ahead Richard. I was actually trying to dig a bit deeper before as to how we do address the difficult situations that some people sitting outside the realm of normality put society as a whole,…

Good point Matthew and I would ask how does a person get to the point of wanting to participate in therapy ? In the normal world this might be driven by crisis, tragedy or a friend say you need help.…

Well, I'm certain she's considered all the evidence — and possibly a lot that's either not in the public domain or not deemed worthy of publication by sensation-junkie media.

She did take her baby to the hospital. That's what led to the conviction.

I haven't taken any interest in the case. Was there a charge of failing to provide care laid against her as well?

very good

She. I hope so too. The sentence is certainly an outlier. But I prefer a system where sentences are handed down by judges who have heard the all the evidence and eyeballed the defendant, and not…

A baby with broken limbs would have been…

That's exactly my point. Offenders would also refuse to participate in prison, probation and home detention if they could but does that stop us making them participate.

Expecting the offender's acceptance they need help is…

Too true. Wilson knows about…

How on earth would putting him in prison for a year help him? There's not a lot of good parenting models there.

The only possible reason for a punishment…

if you're going to take a narrowly legalistic view, maybe you're right..

When is it that you see one stops being a shild and becomes an adult?

it doesn't surprise me that a reasonably socially aware judge would be reluctant to compound a…

It did sound like it in your original post!
But if an offender refuses to participate in therapy, as this man has, what then?

No, perhaps I was being a little too facetious. I was talking about intense group psychotherapy where offenders are challenged at a deep level. It was something alluded to in the Roper Report on…

Sorry – I don't see 19 years of age as being a situation where a child is raising child.

In a wider view of forums where the fork in the road on marriage equality leads into a discussion on that existence of that God guy the direction this is going seems reasonable.

The talk moved onto criminal justice – sentencing is a part of that – I would regard Hall as evil and likely borderline – it is fair game.

In relation to your :

The horrible outcomes of people who are essentially…

Indeed.

Do you seriously believe that? That the primary cause of his offending was that he thought it through and decided that the consequences would not be too severe if he did it? Really? Do you actually believe…

Replying to Chris and DeepRed – leadership – the Key factor is the ommssion of competence.

My comments about permanent incarceration/preventative detention are directed at Stewart Murray Wilson situation.

As regards Robert Hall he caused injuries to his daughter for a period of four months from Nov 2010 through to March 2011 which included both…

Chris…

One helpfully selected and presented for you by your friendly daily newspaper, yes.

If you read the story, it seems a bit less ridiculous. It's clearly a horrible, fucked-up scene: assaults committed on a baby by a teenager who presumably didn't know…

There must always be the chance for redemption.

Justice does require the appropriate punishment of transgressors and compensation, so far as that is possible, for victims, but it must also include the opportunity for redemption and forgiveness..

I feel the criminal justice system falls…

Yeah, quite. See the point in the original post about doing justice to our own humanity.

US Marine Corps bootcamp?

Hey while we are at there must be a few mind altering chemicals that could aid this process.

Yeah, let's give them clockwork oranges to play with.

I mean why are we being so…

What? That's huge.

Suppose we have 100 offenders who go through KM, and 100 who don't.…

This research comes to the conclusion " difference between those…

This is what I don't like about our corrections system – we've defined crimes in a table…

Auckland is suffering from a housing affordability crisis, move him back in.

Again, Wilson easily counts as one of the Terrible Few.

Matthew Poole:
If we shoot him, as the lynch mob wish, where do we stop? I have no terrible objection to killing people who are…

+1

I doubt there are more than one or two others, which means it's a problem that is completely insufficient to justify violating the principle of no retroactive punishment.

Both his alcoholic parents and a supposed head injury as a teenager have been raised as factors in his offending, but that's kind of irrelevant. What's being imposed on him now isn't a punishment, it's an effort to protect…

You'd be hard-pressed to hold anyone else responsible for that, surely.

Wonder if a law change could make it restrospective for the rare ones like him. Are there others?

That's unfortunate. Psychopathy seems quite different in both rehabilitation and likelihood of reoffending, as others have noted. We're not all creatures needing just a little love and understanding to be capable of living with others. A tiny few are more irrevocably…

We can release those who are wrongly imprisoned. We cannot resurrect those who are wrongly executed. That's a pretty massive difference.

The changes by Labour to when preventative detention could be imposed went a…

He has refused all treatment. He cannot be compelled to be treated for his issues, so all we can do is try to keep him out of society for as long as…

We, too, are human — and thus should we behave. Let's protect others from him, and let him live out the days until he dies, unmourned. Let us demonstrate, as we believe, that we are better than Stewart Murray Wilson.

Well said.

He apparently spent time…

Thank you, Russell, for articulating this idea. I'm finding it more and more difficult to express such thoughts to people who, when it comes down to it, advocate torture and execution.
Would…

Yeah, it's a pretty big difference. Restricting someone's freedom because they pose an unacceptable danger to people around them is not the same…

At this point in time the guy has done what our judicial system said is his penance.

I know what you mean, and I want to agree. But just…

Not an answer for people who care about the safety of those around them.

That’s not what I mean at all. Sacha. I am asking if keeping some one locked up for life is any different to society…

Not an answer for people who care about the safety of those around them.

no, it's not

So as I said before, because it's the same diff,

We should maybe, (lock and load), shoot him then, as Laws would have?
Fear/ Fair enough? Eye for an eye innit?
I don't know the democratic answer…

That alone is enough to suggest that there’s something wrong. People shouldn’t have murderous thoughts, should they? Is…

But he poses a very real threat to any people he is exposed…

So, shoot him then, as Laws would have?

If we cant accept that this man could get better with incarceration, why do we bother with imprisonment? Why…

Jaysus! I can't quite understand why it was such a weird place. But it really was.

Cheers. I believe that's the maximum ESO length? Given he served 85% of his sentence before parole and has been hit with the maximum ESO allowed I'm guessing he's…

Three years of his sentence (he's done 18 of 21) then, as Russell says, 10 years of extended supervision. I would imagine that a man who has consistently refused treatment and denied that he's got a problem will struggle to…

Ah, found it. He will…

That would have to have happened at sentencing and iirc wasn't available at that time on the offences of which he was convicted.

Dentistry.

As for that mob in Whanganui; time to hide the pitchforks.

Thanks. I told it a few years ago in a discussion here, but I figured it was worth sharing at length. It was interesting realising that whatever my conceits, I was vulnerable to him too.

The baying mob and Lhaws egging them on is a classic example of more heat than light being shed on the issue.

I suspect that, as pointed out in the Sunday Star Times, will…