It's a sport.

Yeah but the crickets on and we might win, and then there's family, work, some other discussions on morality and the like. I think a bit of DID might come in handy, if 'they' could exist in parallel universes, and then jump back together into this one…

Far too many la las for me but I appreciate the effort. This is the time of the year when my iPod works overtime, shutting out all the Snoopy's Christmas and Felice bloody Nobby da da in all kinds of public places.

Works for me. :)

I don't know how you all do it.

Should have skipped the B52s and watched some more 'discourse' in action. Was great fun though. 'Planet Clare' was a highlight.

For some,it is their only line of communication

...and only shot at fame.

anonymous bloggers and such just dont seem as interesting once they're outed.

http://seanmakescrafts.tumblr.com

i have trouble maintaining eye contact with real life people, especially when i see they're talking themselves up or talking shit so tend to…

i have a rule "what goes online stays online" and shouldn't affect real life dealings. people tend to get in trouble when they rep themselves. it just seems a waste of face time talking 'bout puter time unless you have a vested interest

There is always the chance of learning…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3155819/Using-social-media-in-business

i see Key is going to…

maybe I should have resisted

I don't know if I can support such inhebriation first thing on a Monday morning. Unless you're sharing.

Don we now our gay apparel, 
Fa la la, la la la, la la la. 
Trolls the ancient plague…

The bad news, he's only got to give another dozen or so grossly race-baiting speeches and the next election is in the bag! Yay...

Regarding the situation Russell's and your reactions were good.

Thanks Ben.

If only we were all perfectly non-reactive..

Nothing is the hardest thing to say. I had to delete a teeth-kicking arse-handing the other day because Russell had already deleted the post I was replying to while I was typing.…

the most vile repulsive things

Quite. And if Russell has been corresponding personally with the wretch, he probably needs some TLC by now.

the reason we've never introduced IP blocking

Thanks for the elaboration, Emma. Sounds like a non-tech solution then.

Though not scrolling past the obvious and then trying to disentagle all the other responses. If only we were all perfectly non-reactive..

Word. And we can live with it.

I find a quick downwards flick of the mouse wheel is instinctive when the (obvious) nom-de-troll appears

Still, one(1) persistent troll after three years, that's not too bad.

Word. And we can live with it.

IP blocking might be on the next list o improvements at the lab

I can't speak for CactusLab, but the reason we've never introduced IP blocking at Bardic Web is that it's quite a blunt instrument. Especially there, we have a lot of people using communal computers – libraries, universities,…

ou could *not* have been intimidated by my posts back in the day, as I was and remain a total dork

heh..maybe intimidated is the wrong word, but daunted by your prowess with the written word is perhaps more accurate.

And after all, LISTSERV forums (if they can be called…

when speaking in person I am approximately as daunting and/or elegant as a half-set blancmange.

You see, this is where my fear of all forms of Continental pudding kicks in.

unmollified backbiter flailing in fits

Gold

I am not a…

Now, I'll go off & write a -I hope entertaining- 800 word article for my tribe's magazine "Te Karaka" – delayed firstly by a back molar falling to bits and then an unmollified backbiter flailing in fits-

And Ben, enormous effort has been put into dealing with li'l p/conseismal here, which Russell has already stated on this thread, and it would be nice if you took…

That's what I really don't understand. He had the power to exclude him instead.

Not really. Russell can cancel one of lil p's accounts, but then lil p can create another one. Why did you think we referred to him with so many different names!? Ultimately he needs to understand…

No. Why do you ask?

Just wanted to make sure.

I have a life besides my keyboard and like to comment on some things despite of that fact. If that's wrong, your moderator will be more than welcome to tell me that.

That is not relevant to the point. The…

Wasn’t it just one comment of “fuck off”? And in context it was obviously from a moderator who was getting (understandably) a little tired of dealing with a certain poster?

-Yep. We had a nice discussion.

-That's what I really don't understand. He had the power to exclude him instead.

Okay. Do you treat foreigners always with hostility?

No. Why do you ask?

I have a life besides my keyboard and like to comment on some things despite of that fact.

That is not relevant to the point. The criticism is not that you are an “outsider”, but that you…

Ooops sorry.

Not at all. :) Just clarifying for when the libel suit comes. ;)

all the shouting of 'fuck off' and so on that appeared in the discussion with conseismal.

Wasn’t it just one comment of “fuck off”? And in context it was obviously from a moderator who was getting (understandably) a little tired of dealing with a certain poster? Your argument is entirely…

The point isn’t that you are an outsider.

Okay. Do you treat foreigners always with hostility?

It’s that you are new, and not up to speed with some of the interactions you have decided to comment on.

I have a life besides my keyboard and like to comment on some…

that is a story that was finished as conseismal got kicked out

If only. Are you missing the similarities?

.

Yes who should judge? Well RB can and other moderators, that is my respect , humbly. - Sofie Bribiesca (on my account!! :))

Are you vengeful at all?

No. At this point I am incredibly bored however. Any chance we could move on?

You can curse and threat as long as you want.

...wasn't related to our present situation, but all the shouting of 'fuck off' and so on that appeared in the discussion with conseismal.

I don't see that as threat at all. You notation fits quite nicely…

snap Steve

Is it really necessary to respond on the same level as the offender?

No. Why do you ask?

...is it really necessary to mention that and to show me that I am an outsider in your community?

The point isn’t that you are an outsider. It’s that you are new,…

But Giovanni, is it really necessary to mention that and to show me that I am an outsider in your community?

I normally wouldn't, but if the first thing you do here is to tell everybody how they should behave then yes, I'm probably going to remind you. If you…

PAS actually does remind me of the better times on, say, soc.culture.new-zealand, for sure.

Ha, I seem to recall that I met you on soc.culture.new-zealand back in the mid '90s sometime. It's like a Masonic handshake!

Disclaimer: I am not a Mason.

Do you really think we ought to value your opinion on this particular issue, and model our reaction to a member of the community who clearly has no regard for anybody here on how you think that the forum should operate? I rather think not.

No, I really don't expect…

Is it really necessary to respond on the same level as the offender?

Oh for crying out loud Ben. You're new here, you don't know the back story to lil p and conseismal and just how offensive and obnoxious he has been for weeks now. Do you really think we…

Why did you feel the need to defend conseismal from some of the comments he received earlier?

Is it really necessary to respond on the same level as the offender?

is there anything, really, in da final analysis, more grossly fatty and egoswollen than that?

Ah, some more "quite nice argument".

When people just show up to insult people or make a mess, I wouldn't take it really serious.

I agree that one shouldn't take anything from the likes of…

Anything?

You may think you're trolling – and I'm sure you're snickering proudly. But dude, you're just offensive. Offensive and disrespectful.

Go. Away.

Sometimes this concept is not healthy at all. When people just show up to insult people or make a mess, I wouldn't take it really…

let us give him/ her a chance

Thank you for the hospitality.

And pretty…

From my viewpoint there is another layer of interaction as soon as random people enter the discussion. There I think the discussion is located in a more virtual dimension.

I encountered these quite a few years ago, and have been leary ever since.

Anyway, good to learn you've appreciated the wee Maori pepeha ('saying', for want of a better translation.)

Aoraki is the mountain. Waitaki is the river. Takitimu is the ancestral canoe/ship/vessel of origin. Kai Tahu are the people.

Thanks to Islander for that post. Was really informative to here a definition like that if you don't know a person yet.

Herr Abenslass or something this time round

Sad…

Are many of our regulars also Usenet veterans?

I am, yes. Early 90s. I lost my taste for Usenet some time around 98 or 99, I think, after the signal to noise ratio decreased beyond my tolerance. PAS actually does remind me of the better times on, say, soc.culture.new-zealand, for…

The women who blog here are, of course, all totally awesome — but also, more women post in discussion here than on any general forum I can think of, and I've often used the way…

But PAS has matured somewhat, as has Wiki. It's not…

That's what made Usenet untenable in the end for me.

I never go there now. But I'm involved with two forums full of refugees: this one, and the X-RSRU (ie: rec.sport.rugby.union) mailing list of 10 or so people such as Tracey Nelson, who bailed a while after the 1995 Rugby…

Are many of our regulars also Usenet veterans

Indeed, and listserv vets (Danielle, Danielle...I used to feel intimidated by your prose way back then, just so you know)

I see it as an extension of the culture I first encountered on Usenet in mid-90s, and I suspect I'm not the only one for whom that's the case. Would I be right there? Are many of our regulars also Usenet veterans?

Guilty as charged. And I must say that…

and theres an element that culturally disadvantages some who dont even have the basic language skills.

Yes, that's certainly the case. Prose style is power in a a forum like this. People who can write clever, funny or persuasive sentences have an advantage. Which, on a personal level, suits me…

For some reason I'm reminded of the notions of Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft. Community and Society. Is it useful…

Jeez, PAS is a Darwinian struggle now? I thought I was just banging on about nothing in particular...

...and to respond to that a bit more intelligently: yes, as I mentioned, there seems to be a niche for those who just want to provide a side commentary (humourous or otherwise)…

If other people feel the same way, then there might be less diversity of viewpoint in some threads because only a few commenters have the logical chops, the information, and the fortitude to put a sound case.

Well, I remember agonising for some time about taking the plunge with my…

...less diversity of viewpoint in some threads a few commenters have the logical chops, the information, and the fortitude to put a sound case.

and theres an element that culturally disadvantages some who dont even have the basic language skills.

Bringing your A-game from the get go means you don't…

And that does deter people from entering, I know. People can feel a bit intimidated by it. I do always like seeing "Posts: 1" in the left-hand column and knowing that someone's taken the plunge.

Yes, and having survived the bFm initiation gauntlet of the late 80s, I wonder if…

Bringing your A-game from the get go means you don't have the chance to cut your teeth.

Yes and nobody likes a smart arse :)
As a wee contribution, opinion does help if it comes from experience, but in a schoolteacher kinda way can be a bit precious.(opinion,not knowledge bro)…

its like a dorian grey thing, online personas hidden in the online attic, the uglier they get, the saner we stay in real life?

That sounds like an awfully complicated thing to…

That's what I wanted to say. But you said it way more eloquently. Bringing your A-game from the get go means you don't have the chance to cut your teeth

And that does deter people from entering, I know. People can feel a bit intimidated by it. I do always…

If other people feel the same way, then there might be less diversity of viewpoint in some threads because only a few commenters have the logical chops, the information, and the fortitude to put a sound case.

That's what I wanted to say. But you said it way more eloquently.…

Anyway pollywog, you can come back, but do it with a song in your heart.

thanx once again:)

IMHO... the internet allows us to recreate ourselves online in our best possible image or not. its like a dorian grey thing, online personas hidden in the online attic, the uglier they…

It seems that it is important to assess the 'status quo' opinion from the original, or sentinel, blog post and then take sides.

Given how often (ie about 100% of the time) comment threads go off topic – like, say, this one – I don't think that's particularly helpful. The…

If other people…

It seems that it is important to assess…

I didn't really get David's complaint that there was some breach of faith in people discussing his blog post here, rather than on his own blog

It does feel like an interesting point worth teasing out though. The nature of internet blogging promotes "hey look at this over here". And…

but it is far from okay to attempt/wage any sort of defense of yourself by yourself, and without any appeal whatsoever to social legitimacy

I've deleted your posts. Please, go away. You are not welcome here.

but it is far from okay to attempt/wage any sort of defense of yourself by yourself, and without any appeal whatsoever to social legitimacy

The problem is there you're not saying anything. There is no content whatsoever to your tirades, other than the idea that you're deeply misunderstood (by us).…

I can understand David Cauchi's point, a little. Being a community, there are some things that don't go down well here, that might in other contexts, even polite contexts. You will get smacked down for some things, without fail. I'd give a for instance, but I'll get smacked down.

A…

But…

I would say, go on, define pathological case.

Seriously, if you can't be arsed spending five seconds with a search engine...

The rest of your complaints really are just that we didn't argue like you wanted us to, which again makes me go eh.

Once again, a response thinking my original blog post, in my own context, should fit in with your discussion here.

No, thinking it should fit into a human conversation anywhere. You'd get a similar response to that tone from many people in…

All I wanted to say, to the forum in general, I've said: nosce te ipsum.

(donning on my "Hooray for sarcasm" T-shirt)-- Well, I think I do but I can get be a bit forgetful these days.

Using 'fuck' isnt actually compulsory, or necessary.

Ah, thank you. I was just getting annoyed by the fact that i was reading this horrible word all day.

Please don't take my profanity away from me. It's all I have. :)

All I wanted to say, to the forum in general,…

I would say, go on, define pathological case. But I really don't want to get into this again, and I really don't want to…

Mainly you seemed to be annoyed that people didn't argue the way you wanted, which, well, tough. There's…

In the context of a lively but measured discussion here up to that point, I trust you can imagine how people like Keir could have responded poorly to that tone, regardless of where it originated.

Once again, a response thinking my original blog post, in my own context, should fit…

A while ago, someone posted a link to a blog post of mine on this site.

Yes, Stephen Clover linked to you talking about plagiarism.

This thing about Witi Ihimaera ripping people off is pretty funny.
...
So I reckon Witi should tell those po-faced motherfuckers to fuck themselves. Take…

Then, when I responded, someone, I…

My people-

and no, it isnt exceptional. It's just exceptional for people from elsewhere who dont understand these matters,

Did I want to express something in that sentence?
Yes.
Me.…

My own contribution on this thread was probably a bit nastier than I intended – sorry 'bout that.

no worries, let's call it spiritedness...;)

Regarding the 'coffee-house talk' I miss the idea that this talk is limited to topics, which are based on everyday life, so that they don't lead…

I struggle to contain my annoyance when people come here, complain and then wonder why people don't like them. But I shouldn't bite.

What I like about this place is that, usually,…

Um yes. I am part Maori. And rather known for it. Proud of it. Joyful about it.

I live in a place where several Germans have migrated to – & taken up residency,…

Thinking about your country's history you should have some Maori blood then.

Sorry, but as a German, speaking English as a second language I can't really help you with that…

I think that can happen in any place.

The Zappa post is amazing !!!

Go check "stroke" and see what wonderous things have been accomplished, and are being quietly accomplished.

Absolutely. I had a pile of these (I bought five in the first week) and dished them out to family and friends that came over.

Have they re-stocked, as need some more for Christmas.…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOeOlcR_CgE&feature=related

So I've been reading the blogs, trying to pick up some tips on etiquette, and dipping into the 'Word of the Year' debate, which is just light and tasty, and seemed safe enough.

Heh. I believe we've never had a flame war in a Word of the Year thread. People…

I am still – because I have this deeply engrained suspicious side to my perception of life the universe & everything – that pollywog turned up conveniently close to someone who has been a troll – but hey, if that turns out not to be the case,…

I blame The Winds.

People have been a bit crabby for the past couple of weeks. Time of year.

While pollywog's innocent victim routine seems a little rehearsed, I thought that some (minority) of the responses kind of backed up his argument. Just saying.

I blame The Winds.

Just the other day I disagreed (as best as I can tell) ..

Quite ably and vigorously, as I recall ;-)

PAS and Steven have been good for each other

Those difficult beginnigs must have been before my time, but hear hear on how great it is that you stuck with him and he with us.

I've noticed new people joining discussions here without any fuss

as long as they agree with the mob other wise they dont stick around long.

Yet, we still have the likes of Brickley Paiste, and, for that matter, Craig Ranapia, who often disagrees with the majority of posters here on…

a belief in good faith

Yes

as long as they agree with the mob other wise they dont stick around long. FFS just look what happened to conseismal, he calls bullshit on a mob member and gets shat on.

He's someone who has simply shown himself incapable of the kind of…

pollywog, your whining is ruining my Friday.

sorry scotty, but you should never let anything people say online ruin anything about your real life, least of all for a whole day and yeah, the other great thing about forums is, you can ignore posts and not reply at all

Well,…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqm8JGnSshE

God i hope people never get to know me that well.

As far as I'm concerned, you're in no danger.

i like people with an air of mystery:)

Well, it is a mystery to me what exactly you are complaining about.

yeah, sad eh ?...that after 3 years a pecking order becomes established and boring predictablity sets in.

pollywog, your whining is ruining my Friday.

The great thing abut an online forum is that if you don't like it you can leave with one click.

If you don't like the "scene"…

people repping themselves so much that you can almost guarantee you know what and how they are going to say things before they do.

I believe that's generally known as 'having a recognisable personality' and/or 'not being disingenuous for the sake of it'.

You know what you will get from PA ...

yeah, sad eh ?...that after 3 years a pecking order becomes established and boring predictablity sets in.

people repping themselves so much that you can almost guarantee you know what and how they are going to say things before they do.…

who's to call "bad behaviour"

Thankfully most can see the difference between rude trolling and not "agreeing with the mob". Genuine differences of opinion welcome, shit stirring not.

I've noticed new people joining discussions here without any fuss

as long as they agree with the mob other wise they dont stick around long. FFS just look what happened to conseismal, he calls bullshit on a mob member and gets shat on. i call bullshit i get shat on.…

the other thing i've noticed about on line disputes is if the mods would just let it ride, things tend to even themselves out in the long run and people, as has been noted tend to filter out the bullshit anyway.

What utter crap. But y'know, that's just my professional…

if the mods would just let it ride, things tend to even themselves out in the long run

The infamous copywrong thread begs to differ. If bad behaviour is left uncorrected, things "even themselves out" by good people leaving the conversation because they get sick of the style. Disagreements about…

so what did i win ? you shouldn't have deleted it and krackalite can stick his trolling insults and advice up his arse though i will accept his apology

Would that not be your problem right there? Show some grace, for goodness sake. You're not accepting an apology, you're just…

Since I'm not into piercings, the Cylons are certainly cooler to me than the Borg. They even know Yeats – did you catch the Hybrid's all-too-appropriate inversion of "The Second Coming"?

Yup — and when someone pays my bloody invoice (not Russell) I'll be buying The Plan on BluRay. (Better…

This is a really boring dispute. Active moderation would require me taking a stance on it and I can't be bothered with that.

So let's just say that the next of the squabbling parties to continue the squabble shall be deemed at fault.

OK its no big deal but in…

the question is whether they can continue to exist. I might agree with you, but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I was trying to express my opinion that we can sustain a larger community and that this growth is limited by the resources we have.

Malthusianism: getting it wrong for 200 years and counting.

Though there are no hints on finding a different model to discuss population growth, I could just put out a graph on the development of the world population and look at the similarity to an exponential function.

I am surely aware…

Fuck assimilation, here's The Plan (tm):

Since I'm not into piercings, the Cylons are certainly cooler to me than the Borg. They even know Yeats – did you catch the Hybrid's all-too-appropriate inversion of "The Second Coming"?

Not a wise move when you've got Goff's senior policy advisor, John Pagani, pretty much jizzing himself over Labour's very own Tea Bagger-in-Chief.

That's the thing that gets me. I can see how Trotter would have no trouble securing a column "from the left" in our right wing press -…

IMHO Trotter's turgid posts are best left unread.

Not a wise move when you've got Goff's senior policy advisor, John Pagani, pretty much jizzing himself over Labour's very own Tea Bagger-in-Chief.

I think this is the most astute reading of the state of left politics that I've seen recently Chris.…

And the "Left" that he is fighting for exists only in his head.

IMHO Trotter's turgid posts are best left unread.

Although he certainly has the answers, assuming the question is "How can the Labour Party be made unappealing to members and voters alike?"

And even enemies — which is a real shitter, because there are folks in Labour I do respect, and it would be nice if they didn't feel…

vituperative attacks against anyone Trotter dimly percieves to be Goff's enemy

Actually, he's been making attacks of this nature since well before Goff became leader. There was quite a vicious attack on The Hand Mirror and its "faux feminists" (he, of course is a real one) a year or so…

I don't think any of it is significant, or germaine to what's happening inside the Labour Party.

That's my complete outsider's thought as well. The inside of the party is probably a slowly building backlash against Goff and looking ahead to the future after he loses the next election with…

I get the feeling recently Goff met him for dinner, or drinks or something, and Trotter was dazzled by the novelty of having someone important pay attention…

Women make up around half the population, and are more likely to be Labour voters than men. Talk about pissing off your base.

Ah, but he's not talking about *women*. He's talking about *feminists*. Damn their eyes.

I mean, I'm sure he'd be stoked if we just shut up and…

Trotter's easy conflation of anyone with a non-approved identity (step back, you wimmin and gays) with a notorious terrorist group was bizarre and unpleasant.

I'm sure there is maths that can at least provide some reason why offending gay people might make electoral 'sense', however distasteful, given that they are…

But pretty much a smooth logical flow from his unpleasant comments about Grant Robertson et al in the original post.

Although he certainly has the answers,…

I think that was when Roger Douglas was PM.

The alternative history that's in your head is truly terrifying.

some ne'er-do-well posting facts about Italian political history

I suggest that from now on, we take a cue from Chris Trotter and refer to that ne'er-do-well as "Giovanni", with quotes. (What kind of a damn furriner name is that, anyway?)

squabbling parties to continue the squabble shall be deemed at fault.

Ah, Russell, would shaking Craig's hand count?

but now hes honour bound to go there and pay lipservice…

I've deleted it. Just take a break for a while, huh?

So let's just say that the next of the squabbling parties to continue the squabble shall be deemed at fault.

Ok, obviously missed some context there — which is why I should try and speed-skim threads as a work avoidance strategy. I just assumed that was pollywog's typically charming dash of spice to the gumbo. :)

There's always going to be the risk on misinterpretation in this medium, so…

I don't expect to see "nice" language, I like to see coherence, humour and intellectual rigour. For example, Craig's language is often deliberately offensive, but always witty, because the offensiveness is deliberate and well-crafted. I wish that I could write like that in first draft.

Um, I also really make…

As you've been gratuitously rude…

fair enough…

and how many poo slinging simian tar babies would you support ?

Wow, for someone who was just bitching about being "trolled", nice way to flame-bait.

I suspect that the best way of reducing the world's population will be contraception, education and career opportunity.

would neutering the underclass satisfy ?

Earth can support X number of hippies, Y number of boomers, Z number of technocrats. A set of earth and space resources can support... I need…

This is not just "The Internet", this is PAS, and Hard News in particular. A certain standard of discourse is…