Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: LATE OCTOBER: Life in the Margins: Otherness in New Zealand

Jackie Clark

Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:51:39 +1300

I was very impressed with her. She knows her stuff, and she's passionate. Very bright future in politics, I would say.

Sacha

Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:55:06 +1300

"Dude!"

Russell Brown

Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:17:16 +1300

Normalisation is more convenient for the helpers. Good analysis and articulation.

Yes. She knew I didn't want a stump speech, so she had to front on a personal level. I thought she was impressive.

Sacha

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 15:58:39 +1300

After our wonderful Civic tour courtesy of Malcolm, I suggested a Sunday arvo once a month at Elliot Stables or somewhere easy to add on as many as turn up. Sadly haven't had the werewithal to follow up since. I still owe him a malt too.

Sacha

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 15:56:51 +1300

Jacinda Ardern raised the issue of too much of the ideological (or institutional) response to 'difference' being built on the premise that individuals should be assisted in rising above their personal circumstances, so they eventually turn out 'alright'.

Normalisation is more convenient for the helpers. Good analysis and articulation. I'm…

JacksonP

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:10:43 +1300

I'd love to do something with a serious budget one day, though. That would be good.

The lack of budget didn't show, from where I was sitting/standing/crouching during various stages of the evening. Buckwheat and co were also a real spectacle.

James Butler

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:10:24 +1300

mandatory place and time for PASers to meet up

So long as it's not a Thursday.

Russell Brown

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:57:48 +1300

It is hard to articulate the scope of the issues raised last night. I would encourage everyone to listen to the RNZ broadcast, although I will be interested to see how they deal with some of the free ranging discussion (i.e. expletives). Lady Hillary seemed comfortable enough though.

Lady Hilary…

Russell Brown

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:38:53 +1300

Was a great, thought provoking, evening. Made me think so hard my brain hurts.

It was quite a diffuse topic, and I spent a bit of time working on a structure for it, but I really didn't know how it would go. The key was leading with the personal stories,…

JacksonP

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:33:29 +1300

mandatory
Good luck with that. Who we gonna send round as the enforcer? Actually, no need to answer that question. ;-)

Reflecting further on last night, the message I took away, FWIW, was that being in the margins of society is not a passive state. 'We' are not of the…

Sacha

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:31:33 +1300

your intent is pure

Jackie Clark

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:27:38 +1300

I may have.

Sacha

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:18:54 +1300

I believe you've added the word "mandatory" :)

Rich Lock

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 09:15:35 +1300

What say the masses?

A resounding three cheers? An idea whose time is long overdue.

Jackie Clark

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 08:55:01 +1300

Oh, yeah, Jackson and I decided that we should make a mandatory place and time for PASers to meet up, have a yak, what have you. What say the masses?

Sacha

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 08:53:45 +1300

just wait for that conversation about more workish matters, then :)

JacksonP

Fri, 07 Oct 2011 07:15:46 +1300

So so pleased I came, and my friend Steve loved it, also. Mate, you're a legend.
+1
and thank you for your generosity this evening, too.
+2

Was a great, thought provoking, evening. Made me think so hard my brain hurts.

Sacha

Thu, 06 Oct 2011 22:46:10 +1300

and thank you for your generosity this evening, too.

Jackie Clark

Thu, 06 Oct 2011 22:32:47 +1300

Wow. Just wow. That was amazing, Russ. A real pleasure. I loved the panel discussion – so interesting and I could have listened to them for hours more. And the drag afterwards was sublime. So great to see what goes into such dynamic performers. So so pleased I came, and…

Jackie Clark

Tue, 04 Oct 2011 20:59:15 +1300

Can I just give this event another plug? This great article was shared on my FB page – so in case you don't have FB....... it's one of the parts I'm most looking forward to, anyway. http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/34/article_10869.php

recordari

Fri, 23 Sept 2011 11:38:18 +1200

(I find myself singing this song after breaking up or being broken up with by now-exs).

That song makes my hair and toes curl. It was always a favourite, although I haven't listened to it for too long. Thanks for that.

__"I've swallowed a secret burning thread
It cuts me…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 23 Sept 2011 11:27:35 +1200

Can I play Suzanne Vega yet? This song has always been a favourite of mine, out on the fringes.

She wrote songs with lots of interesting topics. Luka is about child abuse, but this was always one of my favourites, about peace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt0sXRBLfJM

(I find myself singing this song after…

Sacha

Fri, 23 Sept 2011 10:11:23 +1200

Wing Commander

I'd go with that..

recordari

Fri, 23 Sept 2011 08:31:30 +1200

War Memorial Museum.

Yes, I worked in the Wellington one at one point, but can't recall it having such anachronistic tendencies. By the way, that was arguably the slowest online purchasing experience I have ever had. Not that it's any fault of yours. It does fit with the solid permanence…

Russell Brown

Fri, 23 Sept 2011 08:22:52 +1200

Can I please choose ‘Capt & Mrs?’ Can I? Or even better ‘WOSA’ or ‘Wing Commander’. What is a WOSA, anyway? That’s certainly the most comprehensive list of titles I’ve ever seen. I hope we don’t lower the tone of the place too much.

That's fabulous.

And, I can only assume,…

recordari

Fri, 23 Sept 2011 08:18:02 +1200

Just a late notice on ordering tickets through the Museum Website. During the registering process I couldn’t help but laugh when I unveiled the list of titles.

Can I please choose ‘Capt & Mrs?’ Can I? Or even better ‘WOSA’ or ‘Wing Commander’. What is a WOSA, anyway? That’s certainly the…

Rich Lock

Wed, 21 Sept 2011 12:16:13 +1200

Interesting article here that has some bearing on this discussion.

Rich Lock

Wed, 21 Sept 2011 08:54:46 +1200

But then there is the general sense of never getting it, and never understanding why you don't quite fit in.

I've learned to cover up my shyness and otherness really well, apparently.

Yeah, if we're lucky we learn and refine strategies and coping techniques as we get older. I'd argue…

Jackie Clark

Wed, 21 Sept 2011 05:43:09 +1200

And some of us feel eternally on the outside. I have always had a sense of otherness – it's not always a bad thing, and you can have a level of comfortable otherness, to be sure. But then there is the general sense of never getting it, and never understanding…

Russell Brown

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 22:10:01 +1200

I recieved my tickets today – I have to say if you have to pop your Late at the Museum cherry, this is the one to do it with,

There's quite a lot of work to do yet, but we had a good meeting at the museum today and I'm…

BenWilson

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 22:02:12 +1200

Giovanni deconstructs an ideal that disempowers.

I couldn't decide if it was disempowering. Nor could I actually be sure Gio was deconstructing it. Nor even if he intended to. But it's interesting, as you say.

Sacha

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 21:44:52 +1200

Oh to be a 'well adjusted' gentleman of leisure who's been over there discussing it all day. :)

George Darroch

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 21:19:00 +1200

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned being 'well adjusted' yet. Giovanni deconstructs an ideal that disempowers. (It's typically interesting, as is the response it's stirred).

Joe Wylie

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 20:47:29 +1200

Sorry Jackie, meant as a reply to Ben.

You can know either what your identity is, or where it's going, but not both.
""Personal density," Kurt Mondaugen in his Peenemünde office not too many steps away from here, enunciating the Law which will one day bear his name, "is directly…

Jackie Clark

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 19:25:20 +1200

I recieved my tickets today – I have to say if you have to pop your Late at the Museum cherry, this is the one to do it with,

Rich Lock

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 12:31:31 +1200

Certainly I've felt such a crushing effect from people's observations on my identity.

Said effect can usually be triggered by using the phrase 'it's not you, it's me'. At which point, an abundance of pithy observations on one's identity are generated by the adressee....

BenWilson

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 12:13:43 +1200

And observing the matter may alter its/your state?

Yes, the waveform of you identity collapses on observation. Certainly I've felt such a crushing effect from people's observations on my identity. I find myself wishing for the dead cat bounce.

Andrew E

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 11:16:15 +1200

Quantum theory of identity?

You can know either what your identity is, or where it's going, but not both.

And observing the matter may alter its/your state?

Rich Lock

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 11:03:38 +1200

Not everyone starts on the inside

Yes, good point.

Sacha

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 10:28:04 +1200

do they start off on the inside and then make a deliberate decision to move to the outside, or are they drawn to the outside as a consequence of who they are?

Not everyone starts on the inside (though it certainly helps resource choices). There are other paths too, all…

Sacha

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 10:22:05 +1200

and there's a cat involved somewhere (or is there?)

Rich Lock

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 10:18:31 +1200

some people choose to be 'the outsider'.

Yes, but do they start off on the inside and then make a deliberate decision to move to the outside, or are they drawn to the outside as a consequence of who they are?

nature/nurture, free will, etc, and like I say, I'm…

BenWilson

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 10:13:19 +1200

Quantum theory of identity?

You can know either what your identity is, or where it's going, but not both.

3410

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 10:10:54 +1200

I’m beginning to think we all both at a margin and a center – it all depends on where you’re standing, and how self-aware you are that “normal” is a minefield.

Quantum theory of identity?

Sacha

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 09:50:57 +1200

how you define and accept yourself (or not), is your choice

and some people choose to be 'the outsider'.

Russell Brown

Tue, 20 Sept 2011 09:00:20 +1200

I've updated the original post with the lineup for Christoph's performance. And that really is some lineup ...

Rich Lock

Mon, 19 Sept 2011 10:17:05 +1200

Well, arguably some people choose to define themselves on the margins or outside the mainstream because that's where they feel comfortable (and they don't feel comfortable in the mainstream). They didn't choose to be a person that feel suncomfortable in the mainstream.

They're going with the flow rather than trying…

Sacha

Mon, 19 Sept 2011 10:11:33 +1200

no-one deliberately chooses to be the outsider

Au contraire. Most teens build an identity around both that and belonging. Some even make a career of it.

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 Sept 2011 10:03:25 +1200

Also, that generally no-one deliberately chooses to be the outsider.

But people do sometimes choose to define themselves on the margin, or outside the mainstream, and that's fine.

In the past decade, I've often thought that I feel particularly comfortable in the company of mature gay men and women because…

Rich Lock

Mon, 19 Sept 2011 09:26:12 +1200

I'm beginning to think we all both at a margin and a center – it all depends on where you're standing, and how self-aware you are that "normal" is a minefield.

Also, that generally no-one deliberately chooses to be the outsider.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 19 Sept 2011 07:52:50 +1200

Wise, wise words my darling. We are all, at some stage of our life's work, the ones peering in from the outside, aren't we?

That's true – and we all live betwixt and between more than most of us think. For the first time in years, I remembered a Polish…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 18 Sept 2011 20:29:23 +1200

XOXOOo

Islander

Sun, 18 Sept 2011 20:27:00 +1200

Simplistic means " adopting an over-simple or unsophisticated approach to a complex problem" (Heinemann NZ dict.) whereas Russell's -I think aphorism- had simplicity...which your wonderful brain does have! The pure simplicity of your jewellery – and your words...cheers e hoa-

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 18 Sept 2011 20:12:43 +1200

yeah, I guess I use simplistic because that does become the most simple experience, the understanding side? Which as a matter of course for me is the best. I have a consistant awareness, that minimal in everything, pure, simple, simplistic is completely helpful to a healthy brain. "Spose because I…

Islander

Sun, 18 Sept 2011 19:57:18 +1200

-but I’d say it was simple rather simplistic e Sofie (have just recovered your email – response coming!)

I am different but I -very fortunately- have several places – home-wise; within the family; within my tribe, and within our motu = lucky lucky lucky!

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 18 Sept 2011 19:39:48 +1200

Being different and having a place are two different things, though.

That’s really lovely.It's helpful and simplistic

chris

Sat, 17 Sept 2011 15:41:56 +1200

Sounds superb Russell, hemorrhaging kudos, fittingly timed. With Hilary I'm also hoping some of it makes it online.

And I don't mind being on the bus and eavesdropping on teenagers babbling away languages I don't understand.

Oftentimes an infinitely more interesting experience than understanding. When I first moved here (with…

Jackie Clark

Sat, 17 Sept 2011 11:49:02 +1200

Wise, wise words my darling. We are all, at some stage of our life's work, the ones peering in from the outside, aren't we?

recordari

Sat, 17 Sept 2011 10:38:41 +1200

Can I play Suzanne Vega yet? This song has always been a favourite of mine, out on the fringes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YIBmZjONtA&feature=relmfu

Russell Brown

Sat, 17 Sept 2011 09:46:08 +1200

I’m beginning to think we all both at a margin and a center – it all depends on where you’re standing, and how self-aware you are that “normal” is a minefield.

Ooh. I'm going to quote that. With due attribution, naturally.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 17 Sept 2011 09:27:53 +1200

I'm beginning to think we all both at a margin and a center – it all depends on where you're standing, and how self-aware you are that "normal" is a minefield. After the best part of a decade in Auckland, I barely notice that there's a hell of a lot…

Hilary Stace

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 14:17:47 +1200

What a great line up and hope it will be available somewhere on line for those of us not in Akld.

Some comments:
a)Philip Patson is one of the wisest people I have ever heard
c) Jacinda Adern will go far – I've long predicted she and Grant R will…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 14:00:36 +1200

Yes, Tony, I had to try 4 times before I had any success. And I'm on Google Chrome.

Tony Siu

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 13:25:56 +1200

3 refresh, 2 different browsers and half an hour later – I am finally able to buy a ticket to LATE. The Museum's site doesn't really like Safari does it.
And also, can anyone figure out what's the differences between the payment option Visa and Visa – box office?

Craig Young

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 13:16:51 +1200

We do have *one* gay Cabinet Minister (we used to have two to three under Clark). However, the transgender community still isn't covered under antidiscrimination laws. I take your point about 'marginality' though, Russell, and I've often argued that most of us aren't anymore.

In contemporary NZ/Aotearoa, most marginality seems…

Russell Brown

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 12:52:32 +1200

Great – got my tickets – looking forward to it!

Tell your friends! I really want to get ticket sales roaring for this. Not least because that'll mean I do more of them.

Kate Hannah

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 12:51:55 +1200

have season tickets – and will not be mising this one.

Russell Brown

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 12:51:00 +1200

That isn’t the most penetrating insight; if you consider yourself ‘different’ then, yeah, you won’t consider yourself a part of ‘normal’ society. Plenty of teenagers have had that feeling.

Being different and having a place are two different things, though.

JamesPL

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 12:46:06 +1200

There is no place in normal New Zealand society for the man who is different.That isn't the most penetrating insight; if you consider yourself 'different' then, yeah, you won't consider yourself a part of 'normal' society. Plenty of teenagers have had that feeling.

Euan Mason

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 12:41:16 +1200

Interesting to see how we have progressed since Pearson's time, not the least in that his focus on "man" appears quaint and old fashioned. No doubt our descendents will think some of our unspoken biases are equally quaint.

Christopher Dempsey

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 12:37:02 +1200

Great – got my tickets – looking forward to it!

Jackie Clark

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 12:25:33 +1200

Fantastic. Tickets purchased.

Peter Martin

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 11:21:30 +1200

any variation from the norm

We have a wee note in the kitchen..: 'Normal: the average of abnormal'.

Andrew E

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 11:10:41 +1200

No one seems to think we'll see riots like those in England recently

I know some (non-stupid) people that think we will, particularly if the current lot are re-elected for another 3 years.

However, that's a bit OT, so, as you were, and best wishes for a successful event.

Public Address

Fri, 16 Sept 2011 11:10:41 +1200

Discussion from blog post.