Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Judge Harvey: My part in his downfall

Steve Barnes

Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:56:13 +1200

When the Fourth Estate becomes the Fifth Column.

Fnahh, dooblee entenderer

Kumara Republic

Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:53:17 +1200

Journalism thinks it’s guarding the legacy of Woodward and Bernstein, but it’s actually hiding in Sienna Miller’s bushes, trying to get a photo up her skirt.

When the Fourth Estate becomes the Fifth Column.

Steve Barnes

Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:52:28 +1200

Journalism thinks it’s guarding the legacy of Woodward and Bernstein, but it’s actually hiding in Sienna Miller’s bushes, trying to get a photo up her skirt.

Brilliant.

ETA *note to self, must refresh page before posting. Still brilliant though.

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:26:59 +1200

Journalism thinks it’s guarding the legacy of Woodward and Bernstein, but it’s actually hiding in Sienna Miller’s bushes, trying to get a photo up her skirt.

Has anyone yet seen Aaron Sorkin's new effort, Newsroom? I feel like I'm going to like the characters and dialogue, but every show I…

WH

Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:24:43 +1200

I confess, I was a little surprised at the time Judge Harvey made his pun. But I do hope it won't deter him from taking an active, public role in debates about the internet and copyright law. Because, as distressing as this furore must have been for him, his involvement…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:36:43 +1200

by the time the dust settles and the law is enacted the technology has moved on

Which is why a well drafted law is technology independent. The Copyright Act sez:
Nothing in this Act prevents any person from using a TPM circumvention device to exercise a permitted act under Part…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:21:38 +1200

The judge had noted that at present it was legal for citizens in New Zealand to hack DVD region codes to watch disks designed to be restricted to other countries, adding that TPP would change this.

DVDs are just so yesterday. I wonder what the TPP says about Carrier pigeons?.…

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:19:28 +1200

and then he got fired
stood himself down

Yes you're right. He fired himself.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:13:10 +1200

and then he got fired

stood himself down

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:11:53 +1200

Not god, but Rich English Barons and Lazy Kings. I guess I was under the impression that N.Z law had already failed by letting the arrest happen.

merc

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:58:26 +1200

NZ law, thank God, is more than adequate to the task, as are any of our Judges. The NZ Govt. on the other hand, bloweth where the wind listeth.

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:44:36 +1200

Sure, but evolving the law is still a desirable acitivity, as is sorting out this Dotcom case and having clarity on the issues. It's a pretty important case and the abscence of this individual seems a loss to that cause, well according to most of the comments about his particular…

merc

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:29:46 +1200

Judging by what I have witnessed regarding our Prime Minister's and their generally collective lack of respect for the judiciary, I feel Judge Harvey is better off out of it.
Russell may well have aided in the Judge's non-downfall at the hands of an acquiescent NZ Govt.

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:18:02 +1200

Exactly, it was a delightful quote and a cute pun. The influence of the joke surely exagerrated by a huge spotlight on a tiny exchange of words.

merc

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:10:44 +1200

Indeed. It has A Man For All Seasons feel to it.
"More is a man of an angel's wit and singular learning. I know not his fellow. For where is the man of that gentleness, lowliness and affability? And, as time requireth, a man of marvelous mirth and pastimes, and…

Richard Aston

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:10:31 +1200

Nice re-frame Islander ,
I was thinking down the track that he'd been set up by a media feeding frenzy etc etc but you are pointing out Judge Harvey has publicly demonstrated moral character in the middle of a case drowning in moral ambiguity – I nice antidote to the…

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:06:46 +1200

Judge Harvey said "he is us"

I tweeted "he is us", quoting him.

And then he made a pun: "he is U.S."

and then he got fired. It's a sad affair when lawcases gets influenced by good wit. Something feels wrong with this.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:16:44 +1200

Radio NZ story from yesterday begins with actual audio of Harvey's sentence (4 mins, listening options).

Rob Stowell

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:58:14 +1200

Judge Harvey has given me renewed hope that ANZers
can still stand proud-
and that's priceless :)

Islander

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:16:30 +1200

Standing down was an act of remarkable integrity to maintain faith in New Zealand’s justice system.
It was remarkable when contrasted with the acts of politicians, some of whom totally lack integrity – but he behaved in the best traditions of our judiciary (and indeed, the fount from which our…

Pete Sime

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:36:53 +1200

It was a beat-up coming out of nothing, but Judge Harvey did the right thing. Standing down was an act of remarkable integrity to maintain faith in New Zealand's justice system.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:37:15 +1200

In bringing the TPP to such front-page prominence, regardless of the Kim Dotcom case, the learned Judge may have done a *good thing* for the wider cause.

Something I suspect the Raindancers for John Frum, oops, TPPA shills, didn't plan on happening.

Rob Stowell

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:40:10 +1200

In bringing the TPP to such front-page prominence, regardless of the Kim Dotcom case, the learned Judge may have done a *good thing* for the wider cause.

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:45:25 +1200

Chris Keall has a longer story about the context for the Judge's remark.

Given the extreme consequence of Judge Harvey's one-liner, it's worth looking at its context – which includes his broader assertion that NZ copyright law protects not just a copyright holder, but an audience's right to access content.…

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:41:31 +1200

Not so much 'personal feelings' as an opinion based on evidence by anyone who knows the subject area well enough.

Jarno van der Linden

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:35:14 +1200

Would it have been alright if Judge Harvey held such personal feelings about the US and copyright while working on the KimDotCom case, but did not disclose them?

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:29:29 +1200

our backpacking opportunities :)

Martin Lindberg

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:21:47 +1200

Attract Swedish migrants, etc

why else would I be here? ;-)

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:58:48 +1200

has to be some marketing mileage there. Attract Swedish migrants, etc.

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:49:03 +1200

it was legal for citizens in New Zealand to hack DVD region codes to watch disks designed to be restricted to other countries

Heh. Hacker nation.

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:28:21 +1200

did the Herald story go for a more sensational angle?

Hard to fault Nat's summary:

the article’s flow was “SCANDAL! POSSIBLE SCANDAL! Some fact. (probably not scandal)”

But I suspect the damage was done by the overseas tech blogs not doing things as thoroughly as say the BBC.

Judge Harvey…

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:21:47 +1200

I think the Herald’s decision to lead with this story (and deliberately mis-interpret the context?) is as ill-judged as Judge Harvey’s quip. Oh, the irony!

I'm a bit torn over this. Yes, what was reported was what was said. But did the Herald story go for a more sensational angle?…

Stephen Judd

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:03:19 +1200

Chris Keall's NBR story alludes to Oliver Hazard Perry as the originator of the "we have met the enemy and he is X" trope.

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:56:41 +1200

Russell said “he is us”. Judge Harvey said “he is [the] US”.

Judge Harvey said "he is us"

I tweeted "he is us", quoting him.

And then he made a pun: "he is U.S."

Matthew Poole

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:33:55 +1200

Russell said "he is us". Judge Harvey said "he is [the] US".

Tom Semmens

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:22:31 +1200

Don't be daft.

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:13:01 +1200

Phonetically: "he is you ess".
Smart quip. Too smart, as it happens.

Robert Fear

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:09:33 +1200

Could someone kindly clarify what it was that Judge Harvey actually said? The Herald reports it as "...[the] U.S." and the BBC reports it as "...he is US.". Russel on the other hand wrote that he tweeted "...he is us."

Just wondering as the reference to 'us' vs 'U.S.' are…

Geoff Lealand

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:09:24 +1200

Or "I have met the enema and it wasn't fun"?

Geoff Lealand

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:07:07 +1200

I can verify at least part of Russell's account as I was sitting next to him at the "Bad Behaviour" session and he was tweeting away. Indeed, I was tempted to lean over and take his device off him!

I think the Herald's decision to lead with this story (and…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:05:46 +1200

Was that an earlier, more verbose version of W00T?

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:43:01 +1200

the connection is so strong that they'd be failing in their job if they didn't mention it.

Quite. It was an obviously standout line even for this non-journo sitting in that session.

And the whole event was so constructive that those standard 'news' angles about conflict and angst would have…

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:39:00 +1200

I deeply admire Harvey's ethics in realising that a perceived conflict counts and stepping aside in the interests of his profession and of a fair hearing for all parties, even though I have no doubt he was personally very keen to be part of it.

Imagine if more public figures…

Steve Withers

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:36:55 +1200

I was surprised Judge Harvey wasn't more careful as this would be exactly the sort of thing that can be twisted out of context and deliberately misrepresented....which is what the Herald seems to do best these days.

Tom Semmens

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:10:27 +1200

No one seems to have mentioned this, but I hope everyone knows the good judge was also almost certainly making a very subtle witty allusion to one of the iconic military messages in United States history, that of Oliver Hazard Perry who reported his victory over the British at the…

Dave Waugh

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:06:49 +1200

Judge Harvey: My part in his downfall

That is totally crying out for a downfall movie Hitler mashup........

Dylan Reeve

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:38:29 +1200

Unfortunately I think it was a poorly considered remark by Harvey given that he was hearing a case where "U.S." is one of the parties involved. It wasn't related to the Dotcom case but it was related to both copyright law and the USA which are pivotal in the Dotcom…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:38:05 +1200

strongly faults the Herald’s reporting of the comments.

Granny’s overall tone has been pretty negative towards KDC, in both “factual” (I know, it’s Granny) and editorial content. I’m really not surprised that an opportunity to slap the judge was leveraged fully, though I doubt the intent was to get Harvey…

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:36:19 +1200

Isn't the TradeMe operations manager Mike O'Donnell (MOD), not O'Connell?

Duh. Typing errors in effect. Fixed now.

Scott Chris

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:31:18 +1200

Nat Torkington argues that Harvey shouldn't have had to stand aside

Yup. In the given context the US doesn't literally mean 'the USA' and the enemy doesn't literally mean 'the foe'.

On the other hand you can see why an American would feel differently to being referred to as 'the…

Thomas Beagle

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:26:16 +1200

I think Nat's criticism is wrong on a number of counts.

Firstly, I think the media were correct to draw the parallels between Judge Harvey's comments about the US govt's attitude to copyright in the TPP and the case that he is currently judging which is... about the US govt…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:25:00 +1200

ting a ling ling...
the Anerican cartoonist Walt Kelly
That Pogo's a no go...
Now Heather is an Erica
She's an all Anerican girl...

Steve Curtis

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:50:50 +1200

Is there an 'Untertag' video version coming

artig

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:49:03 +1200

Isn't the TradeMe operations manager Mike O'Donnell (MOD), not O'Connell?

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:39:32 +1200

Nat Torkington argues that Harvey shouldn't have had to stand aside and strongly faults the Herald's reporting of the comments.

peter mclennan

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:25:32 +1200

Never admit your subconscious is doing the work, buddy! Let them think you're a genius.

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:13:06 +1200

… the Spike Milligan joke (to keep tracing it back) being that in the book you mention, newly recruited soldier Milligan was given an official photograph titled ‘THIS IS THE ENEMY.’

Ha! I'd forgotten that.

peter mclennan

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:09:42 +1200

... the Spike Milligan joke (to keep tracing it back) being that in the book you mention, newly recruited soldier Milligan was given an official photograph titled 'THIS IS THE ENEMY.' "It was a photograph of Adolf Hitler," wrote Spike. "I looked all the way through the train, but he…

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:55:55 +1200

It seems prudent to clarify that the title of this post is a play in the title of Spike Milligan’s book Hitler – My part in his downfall – although I’m sure Judge Harvey would know that.

Also, I never did get to enjoy my prize. I left the bottle…

Public Address

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:55:55 +1200

Discussion from blog post.