Makes the anti Obesity drive look like the way to go eh?

But you can be thin and still eat unhealthy food. In fact, I'd argue that the non-obese run the risk of complacency if they assume that their thinness protects them against cholesterol and heart disease and all that…

Approximately 30% of deaths were attributed to the joint effect of dietary factors. Tobacco consumption was responsible for 18%…

unsubstantiated bollocks. That amounts to $5625 for every man woman and child in this country every year. I'm sure sombody would have noticed that.

The economist in question was Brian Easton, the work was done in 1997. I don't know the research at all, but it'd be interesting to see…

Those of us in sedentary jobs in offices are actually *meant* to be taking breaks every hour. It's in the OSH guidelines and everything.

Yes, I know. I have one of those jobs. A minute or two of stretching at your desk, not 10 minutes to duck outside and have…

Tell that to a workmate who, on giving up smoking, said "I have all this time, now that I'm not always going outside to smoke."

Those of us in sedentary jobs in offices are actually *meant* to be taking breaks every hour. It's in the OSH guidelines and everything.

(Also,…

Don't be ridicolous now. There is no proof that people who take occasional breaks durinng their working day have a lower productivity, it might very well be the opposite.

Tell that to a workmate who, on giving up smoking, said "I have all this time, now that I'm not always…

All those known results of being a smoker mean that surgery is riskier and lead to longer recovery.
If you can point me to a study that says that butter does similar things, then I'll add it to my list of "sins" for which elective surgery (note elective surgery, not…

I think that cutting people some slack might be nice once in a while. None of us are perfect.

The cost of smoking-related health care to the New Zealand taxpayer is about $250 million.

What about the economic cost of all the tens-of-thousands of lost hours spent on smoking breaks? Or the lost output of smokers who get seriously sick? I'd love to know what the secondary costs of…

And who's to say that butter doesn't kill or disable more people than cigarettes?

That wasn't my point. My point was that smoking does bad things for the body's ability to cope with surgery. Reduced lung function, reduced peripheral blood flow, etc. All those known results of being a smoker…

Current tobacco tax revenues amount to approximately $1 billion per year, and have been at that level for some years. This is just under 2 percent of total tax revenues.
– Of the approximate $1.6 billion…

Except when shame has value sometimes, as you said earlier?

No, Craig said my billion dollar plan was about shame, I said that while I think that can have value, that's not what my plan is about at all.

So yes I was talking about education, someone accused me of…

I don't accept that either.

Well, in a perfect world, nor do I. But I'm just trying to compromise with our anti-smoker friends, given our current health budget...

Don't compromise, this notion that we cannot deliver social justice because of our limited resources is getting way out of hand -…

I don't accept that either.

Well, in a perfect world, nor do I. But I'm just trying to compromise with our anti-smoker friends, given our current health budget... you do make a good point with the butter, though.

George Best got a liver transplant, kept boozing, destroyed his new liver…

Or how about telling Jonah Lomu that he wasn't going to have a perfectly good liver wasted on him unless he promised to stop playing rugby

Quite, although the sports person association game leads me to what I think was an acceptable case of discrimination: George Best got a liver…

"I'm sorry, sir, but I saw you eating an eclair for breakfast on your way here, we'll have to cancel your heart transplant."

Or how about telling Jonah Lomu that he wasn't going to have a perfectly good liver wasted on him unless he promised to stop playing rugby, and…

OK, fine. How about prioritising people who don't smoke ahead of those who do? There's an incentive for them to quit.

I don't accept that either. And besides, how do you police that? And who's to say that butter doesn't kill or disable more people than cigarettes? "I'm sorry, sir,…

there's no compelling reason why smokers should be allowed to consume limited health resources

OK, fine. How about prioritising people who don't smoke ahead of those who do? There's an incentive for them to quit. But refusing care altogether... these are *people*, with lives and families and friends, who happen…

there's no compelling reason why smokers should be allowed to consume limited health resources.

There's no compelling reason why health resources should be limited. It's a political decision.

Cause I pretty clearly was talking about education.

Except when shame has value sometimes, as you said earlier?

I don't disagree with your main idea at all, actually. I just think it would have to be quite carefully administered. Lots of guidelines and regulations. It's quite easy to become Judgey…

The emphasis on infrastructure is hard to dislike, but that doesn't make him a Keynesian.

Sure but it's a great play on words though... and there's ring of truth, borrow and spend out of recession. I guess the issue is at what point in the economic cycle you splurge compared…

The emphasis on infrastructure is hard to dislike, but that doesn't make him a Keynesian.

I'm saying it's not 'being old' that costs a lot of money, it's being sick or having injuries.

I was pointing out that disability is not the same as health, and that it does have significant costs that…

I'm talking about 'shaming', not 'education'. There's a line to be drawn. Education good: shaming bad.

OK, well you'll be bagging someone else then for how they spend their billion dollars. Cause I pretty clearly was talking about education.

Disability is correlated hugely with age – 87% of over 85…

My mother has polymyalgia rheumatica and severe osteoarthritis: she takes medication for those conditions as well as pills for high blood pressure, and a mild cardiac condition. She is – otherwise- a fit & mentally healthy 80+ person who is the centre & matriarch of a very large whanau.…

Take your complaint to the smoking advert brigade though, I'm not the one putting them on. Personally I know smokers, and ex-smokers, who think the adverts are good

And I know some who buy a nice tin cigarette can and fastforward through the ads on their MySky. My anecdata cancels…

If we improve health throughout life, in many areas, people will be less likely to be sick or injured when they are older because their health will be better. They will have stronger hearts, lungs, bones etc etc.

We're going around in circles here. So let me ask you again:…

Have you been hanging out with Albert Hoffman? Watched Cocoon once too many times? Or are you seriously telling me that the average 80 year old needs as many meds and medical procedures as the average 50 year old?

No, I'm saying it's not 'being old' that costs a lot…

Totally. When the whole All Black front row would be classed as obese, you know there's something wrong with the system being used.
However, there's also something wrong when school uniform stockists routinely carry (instead of specially ordering in) pants in sizes that could fit two of me. I'm not…

You can't hate people for their own good, to quote someone very clever whose name i can't remember.

Yes, but on the other hand hating people for one's own good has never been especially hard. And who among us does not see the slippery slope from what is being proposed…

I'm a fairly fanatical anti-smoker, and I see it has some value there.
It has value for *you*. It makes *you* feel better. It doesn't help the smokers themselves. You can't hate people for their own good, to quote someone very clever whose name i can't remember.

Yeah, what Danielle…

I'm a fairly fanatical anti-smoker, and I see it has some value there.

It has value for *you*. It makes *you* feel better. It doesn't help the smokers themselves. You can't hate people for their own good, to quote someone very clever whose name i can't remember.

Well I'm not Craig. Like when you visit your GP, working with a community health nurse is a confidential visit.

Oh yes you are... and while I've been pretty candid (to a fault some would say) about my history of mental illness, many others aren't. And I sure as hell…

I'm pretty skeptical of this. There's nothing about being 'old' that makes your medical costs higher than being young. It's not until your body gets sick or breaks down in some way that it gets to be more expensive. That often happens as you get older, but not necessarily.

Have…

All I'm saying is that it had better be a volunteer programme.

Yup. But one I'd want health professionals to push, assuming it was set up well.

The overwhelming issue with excessive weight is the increased risky of early death due to cardiovascular disease. The way it often pans out…

Macquarie Bank has been the big mover and 'innovator' here and has recently encountered serious expert and media criticism about the structure of the deals which rely on cheap credit…

Russell noted up thread that National's plan "offer a guaranteed return from the projects they fund", this means, under National's plan, that the public is. If there's one upside of the CCT project failure it's that at least the State government didn't inherit the risk.

Thanks Paul, that clarifies things.…

Danielle, the idea is to up everyone's productivity so that you can put less hours in really soon, but keep going longer. More of that mythical work-life balance.

But Sacha, I don't *want* 'work-life balance'! I want to sit at home eating bonbons and watching Judge Judy! :)

Seriously, I…

Why do you think I've avoided talking about heart attacks and strokes and other seriously-life-threatening eventualities?

I know you didn't talk about heart attacks, I did. You talked about fighting obesity, and cardiovascular disease happens to be the main problem associated with it. Hip fractures are costly to treat, sure,…

If we can keep people capable of doing such things, the economic benefits are enormous. Keeping them fit and healthy and in a position to keep working is a saving, in that they're contributing economically instead of just consuming.

Christ. I want to retire *now*. You're telling me I have…

I know that it's not a perfect analogy, but as a citizen and a taxpayer, I think I've at least as much of a legitimate interest in the expenditure of public money as I'd have in the doings of a company I own shares in.

Indeed Craig. And…

As for rationing of healthcare on the basis of lifetime benefit to the patient, this already happens, people don't usually like to be to explicit about it. Pharmac and other government agencies use the concept of 'Quality Adjusted Life Years' to deal with it.

And then there's the nasty concept…

I'm all for preventative medicine and better habits leading to longer, healthier lives, but let's not kid ourselves that it's going to save us money – we've never spent more in health services and yet we're the healthiest we've ever been.

Why do you think I've avoided talking about heart…

1. All the contractual terms should be on public record – not the case with the Cross City Tunnel (CCT) in Sydney.

ITA. If you've got your hand out for public money, or are tendering for public contracts, then you accept a level of public disclosure and…

But while the CCT is, in my view and not having followed it in great detail, a textbook example of how NOT to run a PPP, it doesn't immediately follow that PPPs are a bad idea.

Agreed, but the CCT fails on a number of simple tests and is only…

On this second point, my limited experience and knowledge of PPPs for infrastructure is that they're a very mixed bag. There's a fair number of examples in Australia, though so not many in NSW, where PPPs have been successful but there's a few recurring problems which need consideration.

As far…

...the diminished economic output of the victim during recovery.

/

So by all means let's encourage healthy habits, but can we try not to look at it in terms of being a good investment or a smart use or money?

Using the word investment can sound a bit business-like. And…

So that's two of us, both from the UK, both with direct experience of PPP's, both saying 'don't do it'.

I'd not go that far myself. I think there's a couple of issues mixed up here, there's questions about what on earth Key means by giving the private sector a…

Oh, of course you are Kyle — and what's wrong with the idea of good old fashioned public 'shame' as a mechanism of social control?

If we're going to shame people, we might as well combine a few things at once. Put them on bikes. That way we can combine…

And that BMI is one of the world's dumbest measurements for overweight and obesity anyway

Totally. When the whole All Black front row would be classed as obese, you know there's something wrong with the system being used.
However, there's also something wrong when school uniform stockists routinely carry (instead…

The way it often pans out is you're fine, suddenly you have a heart attack, you die.

Or not. Heart attacks are often not fatal, they just put the patient into hospital for a few days, on medication for years (if not the rest of their life), and are expensive…

I'm not talking about public shaming.

Oh, of course you are Kyle — and what's wrong with the idea of good old fashioned public 'shame' as a mechanism of social control? While it might prick liberal sensibilities to admit obstinate realities, it happens all the time. And it happens because…

And that the reason that so many millions of Americans are…

I'm talking about a doctor and a community nurse coming and talking to your family about health issues, inside your home, working with you to set up an action plan to address issues which cause serious long term health problems, and then helping you put that plan in action.

Heh.…

Obesity, diabetes, smoking are all going to cost us billions down the track. If we can improve lifestyles 20 years earlier, we're going to save money overall, and have a much healthier country.

They already do, and that's before the current generation of ever-increasing-waists even makes it out of their…

Can. Of. Worms. Wouldn't that just turn into another lovely game of 'Shame the Unworthy Smokers and Fatties'?

I'm not talking about public shaming.

I'm talking about a doctor and a community nurse coming and talking to your family about health issues, inside your home, working with you to set…

Did you know you can get annual membership for St Johns ?Last I heard it 's about $60 per annum.I found them cost effective:)

ACC is even more cost-effective ;)
St John charge the patient (or their family) for medical-related transports, since it's not covered by ACC. ACC does cover…

does no one here remember what it was like pre-ACC?

Simple example – in the middle of the 70's oil shock no one would carpool (or even give their friends a ride) to work because they were all dead scared of being sued if they had an accident

And with…

and were you told about the 6 inches thing as well :)

Um... I must have missed a fair bit of this thread....

You're like a riding, talking advertisement for not commuting on a bike!

As I said to the ambo who rode in the back with me to the hospital, "I am the statistic." That in the context of me having also had a pedestrian (who's never going to do it again)…

I knew the other half was a keeper when I asked him to pick up some pads for me at the supermarket and he said "sure, but you'll have to tell me what size."

Heh... I know a lesbian couple who take a quite unseemly delight in sending their (male)…

I knew the other half was a keeper when I asked him to pick up some pads for me at the supermarket and he said "sure, but you'll have to tell me what size."

We are instructed to give that answer during training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFzkHfEG0a8

Through the thickening murk of political claim and counterclaim about tax cuts and Government borrowing, a few things…

Simple example – in the middle of the 70's oil shock no one would carpool (or even give their friends a ride) to work because they were all dead scared of being sued…

I always remember ben elton parodying 1980's UK tampons ads that started with the classic phrase,

"ladies do you have a secret."

Yes – menstruation doesn't involve a discrete drip of blue dye that strongly resembles toilet cleaner.

Rugby fan?

Me, Yep.

Me – one of the many, many things I'm utterly indifferent to. (As, I'm sure, most rugby fans don't give a toss about the finer points of the internal chronology of the Star Trek universe.) If you're into that sort of thing? Well, far be it…

I always remember ben elton parodying 1980's UK tampons ads that started with the classic phrase,

"ladies do you have a secret."

It is weird talking about female health issues because it's not something thats…

(Hee. This thread is weird as hell. When rugby rules, Tampax and ACC statistics collide!)

Only at PAS I suspect.

And surely I'm not the only one that thought this...

(!)

I'm not sure about that sarcasm tag. It looks like an upside-down vagina to me.

...was pretty funny? I'm…

actively engage families with asthma, diabetes, obesity, smoking etc

Can. Of. Worms. Wouldn't that just turn into another lovely game of 'Shame the Unworthy Smokers and Fatties'?

(Lucy, I forgot that I should be pumping government-subsidised synthetic progesterone into my body to avoid my own ickiness! Silly me.)

Rugby fan:…

Well, in theory it doesn't need to apply to illness because our health system is already socialised.

Matthew, to clarify, I'm talking about long-term disability support services, not short-term health ones. Some conditions like cancer are a bit blurry, but we're mainly…

Right, poll time

Yes, rugby fan, although much more so since moving to Australia.

Yep, I'm well aware that some illness-related disabilities can be somewhat self-inflicted (except there are genetic components in – for instance- alcohol-related disorders) – but so can accident-caused disabilities.

We currently have the awful situation where…

A month ago, in yet another bicycle accident

You're like a riding, talking advertisement for not commuting on a bike!

Nah that's dumb. That's not cool that's dumb pal. If you can't handle the politics of the idea just consider the economics. Actually you should try and understand the politics too. ...

what would you like money spent on? Where do you think a spare billion could be well spent?

I would aggressively throw the whole billion at pre-emptive health care. Literally move the ambulance up the cliff and actively engage families with asthma, diabetes, obesity, smoking etc. Lots more GPs and…

And Americans seem to grasp quickly that it's socialised compulsory insurance, and ask why it doesn't apply to illness too.

Well, in theory it doesn't need to apply to illness because our health system is already socialised.
When you have a common law system, the availability of tort remedies means…

Apropos ACC. As noted above I think slarty is right about the effect this has on dodgy employers, but the charge that ACC-hate is "yankee" thinking is a slur. I have never…

Well, we better invest in educating our kids in Asian languages then, as we're still terribly isolated by our linguistic shortcomings. We could probably turn that around in about 10…

And why do you think thousands of women just have to eat this ridiculously overpriced expense merely because we have ladybits?

But the government supplies you with nearly-free hormonal contraception! It's not _their_ fault you choose to keep being icky once a month when you could be period-free (and ritually…

Hsving people in my family…

Why doesn't it cost 3 dollars for a bazillion tampons – just like our common-or-garden drug prescriptions?

Why the hell not?

I'd love it if we had a government that did things like that. What do we have to do to get one?

When rugby rules, Tampax and ACC statistics collide!

Sounds like a reality tv show..

looks like an upside-down vagina

Your comment is at least consistent with Danielle's characterisation of this thread. And you'll have to take up that choice of character with the Deaf community. I'm sure they'd laugh, especially…

(!)

I'm not sure about that sarcasm tag. It looks like an upside-down vagina to me.

I will claim no knowledge of FHP, but I'm pretty sure I have to eat food and have to pay for it!

Now wait just a minute, you fellas. I think our need to deal with menstruation is not like food or shelter. It's basically a medical expense, which should…

A month ago, in yet another bicycle accident, I had my front wheel slip into a drain with the result being me doing a superman act over the handlebars before dislocating my shoulder.…

Lets say I injure you in a car accident. A minor mistake on my part, but I'm at fault.

Under the present system I'm charged with causing an accident and fined.

Very unlikely. You'll probably get away with it, unless you've really drawn some serious blood. Of the 400+ deaths…

You tended to need an MI5 clearance to open a sodding bank account too.

You still do, or did a couple of years ago when the parental units went to the UK with a view to migrating (they gave up after 18 months and came back). The step-paternal unit is…

Is picking it up "catching", so long as the ball is moving? Or does "catch" mean what it says — ie, on the full?

That was my (very uneducated guess), which is why I asked.

And does that make a difference as to which side is deemed to have put…

They speak of a superhuman performance by McCaw.

Which is great but we need to be able to win without him also

Here's a thought, how about rotating players in key positions?

The stats on lineouts are also fantastic reading – could it be that we've finally got a reliable…

They speak of a superhuman performance by McCaw.

Which is great but we need to be able to win without him also (and need depth in behind him). The stats on lineouts are also fantastic reading – could it be that we've finally got a reliable lineout?

They speak of a superhuman performance by McCaw.

The USA, which has a full-on litigation culture, has a [[http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20section/statistics/stats-multicountry-percapita-2004.htm|substantially higher road death rate…

It's not a very real risk. It's a fairly minor risk for the near misses and long-term impact. We have about 60 workplace deaths a year. How many get prosecuted?

Not enough. It was worse, it has got better, and still needs to go a long long way. Don't hold…

Soon it won't even get through in Australia.

Oy, Tasmania... the place where all the jokes about the outcomes of inappropriate family bonding err on the side of generosity. But seriously, if I see another story in the Sunday Star Times where I'm expected to feel for people who can't…

And – we were bloody lucky with the weather. Good thing I looked like a plonker…

Utter rubbish. If you're negligent as a business, you face the very real risk of prosecution.

It's not a very real risk. It's a fairly minor risk for the near misses and long-term impact. We have about 60 workplace deaths a year. How many get prosecuted?

For any statutory regulatory…

Struggling with the logic.. help... anyone?

My point is that if people in NZ want (and can afford for the most part) a flash telly, and that makes people in China wealthier, so they can afford (for instance) our dairy products, then that's for the most part a Good Thing.…

I reckon some sort of insurance should be compulsory, with a levy to catch the no-fault element. Just like the British car insurance system in fact...

The only problem there is trying get insurance of any kind. I had a minor conviction and had to resort to an insurance broker…

"property torture porn" – wonder what the Yanks will do with that one..

Soon it won't even get through in Australia.

Innoculation is a complex beast at times, Gareth.

Especially when it takes the form of Story #1,798,206 about the social blight of two-income white collar families suffering the agony of not being able to afford to buy their first homes in fashionable (and over-priced) inner-city suburbs. All a cunning plot…

slarty, does it need to be an either/or thing? ACC was introduced partly to deal with the case where there was no obvious party to sue, or where that party had no ability to pay.

Yep, I'd kinda got to here about 4 years ago.

Then I went to work…

(Also: the price of 'feminine hygiene products' [pads and tampons, for those of us less euphemistically inclined] is a feminist/working-class activist issue as far as I'm concerned. $11 for cotton wool and stickytape? Are they kidding me?)

To tagent in a slightly 'look away' direction, you might like to consider…

Now if ACC could recover the costs of treating you from a liable party, wouldn't that be a reasonable way of increasing the risks of negligence?

Lets say I injure you in a car accident. A minor mistake on my part, but I'm at fault.

Under the present system I'm…

I can't actually understand why FHP as you call 'em aren't free. How is it a choice to consume such items?

Others have mentioned food, might I add why should I have to pay for the roof over my head?

People, I think we might be on to something here.

But I do think, however, there's at least an argument about (say) bonding student teachers, doctors etc. to work in New Zealand for a period with the quid pro quo of (say) an additional lump sum in the form of additional student loan repayments.

They're already doing that to some…

Must ask Russell to ask the lads at Cactuslab to come up with a sarcasm tag

wot Craig needs is a sarchasm tag:

Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.

...returning from Canada, where what I can only assume to be a chronically-understaffed bureaucracy takes months or years to respond to the simplest of paper work, and then does so in the surliest manner possible.

Well if you replace the "un" in this statement ... with... well, you know, you…

You being bad / lax / negligent <> arse sued into the ground with punitive damages = you carry on with your bad safety behaviour.

Utter rubbish. If you're negligent as a business, you face the very real risk of prosecution. If you're negligent while driving, the same. The ACC also…

Now if ACC could recover the costs of treating you from a liable party, wouldn't…

I can't actually understand why FHP as you call 'em aren't free. How is it a choice to consume such items?

I will claim no knowledge of FHP, but I'm pretty sure I have to eat food and have to pay for it!

Insurance cheap(ish) for young drivers in big cars

Car insurance not compulsory. That sends shivers down my spine on a pretty regular basis.

I can't actually understand why FHP as you call 'em aren't free. How is it a choice to consume such items?

Up the revolution brother.

Food isn't exactly optional, but I still have to pay for it!

After a huge amount of consideration, elimination of ACC (I've come to the conclusion that, on balance it tends to reward bad behaviour)

I am so, so confused by this. So confused. What?

Can't sue for personal injury = risk spread via what is in effect a tax on everyone.…

I am so, so confused by this. So confused. What?

Y'know, those builders and plumbers claiming to have sore backs. There must be dozens of them remaining undetected. We should abolish the ACC to get them back.

I can't actually understand why FHP as you call 'em aren't free. How…

After a huge amount of consideration, elimination of ACC (I've come to the conclusion that, on balance it tends to reward bad behaviour)

I am so, so confused by this. So confused. What?

(Also: the price of 'feminine hygiene products' [pads and tampons, for those of us less euphemistically inclined]…

I…

It's easier to fill column inches with REINZ hand-delivered press releases, esp in the advertorial section where a reporter writes soft stories hand-fed by real estate agents. I've had to do this and it leaves a horrid taste in the mouth.

The Herald et al seem to come down pretty…

Property ads are a huge contributor to newspapers' profit. When newspaper bosses talk to staff about "difficult financial conditions", they usually cite a drop-off in…

slarty, I just tore up that ballot, sorry pal...

Aww shucks – I was just starting to think about baubles.

But I'm precluded from public office, on account of not being independently wealthy.

Actually, can you guess which ones I threw in my list fo identity protection purposes? ;-)

I agree. It would be the…

Craig: so would you have to take a stupidity test to get a passport?

Or just produce a copy of a ballot paper with an X for NZ First on it?

Must ask Russell to ask the lads at Cactuslab to come up with a sarcasm tag...

But since you…

No. but we are the envy of the world in our simplicity and low compliance costs.

Sure are, but that might not make it ideal from a consumer point of view.

That said, I know few people whose buying is heavily influenced by the vagueries of GST in Australia but…

Turning the question around, is there any other country or jurisdiction which imposes an almost universal sales tax akin to New Zealand's GST?

No. but we are the envy of the world in our simplicity and low compliance costs.

The evidence is that fiddling with VAT rates makes no difference…

Slarty: so you want NZers to be watching '80s tellys with a green tinge, and Chinese people to be impoverished rice farmers who can't afford cheese?

And that benefits who?

Struggling with the logic.. help... anyone?

so many of our most educated disappear overseas for want of opportunity or adequate remuneration. If we invest heavily in education, won't we just be funding a brains trust for the taxpayers of other countries

Very fair point: have you noticed how many Oirish accents you hear in other countries?…

And is there any international evidence that creates anything other than a mare's nest of exemptions (which seem have more to do with which sector groups have the best lobbyists and PR operations than anything else)?

Turning the question around, is there any other country or jurisdiction which imposes an…

Bollard issued warning after warning last year, long before the US sub-prime market went belly-up, to rein in our over-spending and over-use of credit in light of unrealistically high property valuations. The centre couldn't hold, he warned us.

Which reminds me that I would love a retrospective Media7 episode on…

Or just produce a copy of a ballot paper with an X for NZ First on it?

PPPs. The evidence that they're a better way of funding infrastructure is scant, but they're ideologically appealing.

Two examples from the UK which in a sane world would be enough to deep-six any PPP discussion before it got off the ground:

1) The NHS. A lot of horror stories floating…

If you want to stop educated people going overseas, refuse to issue them passports and make the price of a medical degree indentured servitude to whatever DHB is willing to take them on. Seriously.

Unfortunately that will probably just stop educated people, period.

More seriously, I'd be tempted to introduce a selective GST.

And is there any international evidence that creates anything other than a mare's nest of exemptions (which seem have more to do with which sector groups have the best lobbyists and PR operations than anything else)?

Where do you think a spare billion could be well spent?

Well, inspired in equal parts by The Simpsons and the Herald's Your Views section, I would be tempted to: "lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king."

More seriously, I'd be tempted to introduce a selective GST.…

Re Ireland – if the winds blow favourably, we could position ourselves as an equivalent into China, India and Asia.

Well, we better invest in educating our kids in Asian languages then, as we're still terribly isolated by our linguistic shortcomings. We could probably turn that around in about 10…

Actually, someone did suggest that. Bollard issued warning after warning last year, long before the US sub-prime market went belly-up, to rein in our over-spending…

And that benefits who?

Cullen has also pointed out that the Nats' version of infrastructure bonds will offer a guaranteed return from the projects they fund, which rather conjures the prospect of digging a very big hole for yourself if things don't work out.

And they don't, not all of them anyway. Take for…

From the Gruaniad...

So that is what New Zealand used to play like. It has been too long. This was like being reunited with old friends,

As much as we can create and grow gdp we also need to revisit the delivery of that growth into areas that need it, our personal households.

I would support a complete…

That's a great point.

Ireland pops up a lot in discussions of the modern economy yet what can N.Z learn from that economy apart from trying to join the EU.

so many of our most educated disappear overseas for want of opportunity or adequate remuneration. If we invest heavily in education, won't we just be funding a brains trust for the taxpayers of other countries

How else do you move to a high-wage economy, though? It ain't going to be…

I would argue that some investments in education do the opposite however, and attract graduate students and researchers and other bright minds from around the world, who not only do useful work but often become useful citizens.

I don't know enough about the education sector to know…

For me, an obvious priority would be direct intervention to roll out insulation. By 2015…

How about doing what Ireland did – invest massively in education.

Just to play devil's advocate: so many of our most educated disappear overseas for want of opportunity or adequate remuneration. If we invest heavily in education, won't we just be funding a brains trust for the taxpayers of other…

PPPs. The evidence that they're a better way of funding infrastructure is scant, but they're ideologically appealing.

Right, sorry wasn't following the line of thought.
Agree with you – the need for private investment for return seems woolly when as a rock-solid Govt your own rates for borrowing are pretty…

You mean National will fix things in indefinable ways, or infrastructure bonds will? Or debt?

PPPs. The evidence that they're a better way of funding infrastructure is scant, but they're ideologically appealing.

That's the kind of vision I want to hear from our parties. What should our people know that they don't know? How are skills achieved and why is importing skills the only answer offered?