Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: It's worse than you think

Alfie

Mon, 07 Mar 2016 15:30:27 +1300

I doubt the powers that be would allow that. After all, has Mike Sabin's case been heard yet?

Brent Jackson

Mon, 07 Mar 2016 15:24:00 +1300

It'll be interesting if this gets to court during the election campaign

Alfie

Fri, 04 Mar 2016 13:58:59 +1300

AUT journalism lecturer Greg Treadwell has started a Givealittle campaign to raise the $38k necessary for Bradley Ambrose to file a defamation claim. He explains his motivation on the Spinoff.

In an interview with Toby Manhire Ambrose confesses that until the teapot debacle, he'd always voted National and thought Key…

BenWilson

Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:03:19 +1200

And then Bradley Ambrose indicated to me via Twitter that he had made no such apology.

I wonder where that idea came from.

Matthew Poole

Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:35:58 +1200

And then Bradley Ambrose indicated to me via Twitter that he had made no such apology.

This doesn’t seem to be over yet.

Has he pursued a defamation action yet? With the release of this information about his text messages, it sounds like it'd be a slam-dunk with no possible…

Russell Brown

Thu, 08 Aug 2013 19:48:24 +1200

I tweeted the police's nothing-to-see-here response to Peters, which also says this:

Police note that Mr Ambrose was not subsequently charged with an offence in this matter, as Mr Ambrose took the pre-emptive action to write a letter of apology to the affected parties. Mr Ambrose was then given an…

nzlemming

Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:44:09 +1200

Transcript here, if you’re a glutton for punishment.

Was anyone able to read that? The page said "Download PDF" but gave you a docx file which I haven't been able to either open or convert :'-(

Matthew Poole

Thu, 08 Aug 2013 08:03:44 +1200

The denial from the police doesn't say it was never considered, only that it was never attempted. Something about angels on the head of a pin.

nzlemming

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 17:20:26 +1200

However, [citation needed].

Currently, it’s on Winnie’s Facebook page (interesting method of press release) but I see Stuff have picked it up now as has the Harold

EDIT: I see he said it in the House, during General Debate.

BenWilson

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:46:14 +1200

It's a priority queue, not FIFO.

Matthew Poole

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:32:00 +1200

He alleges that Key’s office was “in the loop” on the investigation. And that police were told to brief Wayne Eagleson on everything they did.

Believable? Oh yes, it surely is. Even from Winston. Key's grubby paws are all over that investigation, right the way up to an assistant commissioner…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:29:10 +1200

You’ll need to join the queue on that one, buddy.

It's not written down. It didn't happen. If there's a queue, I appear to be at the head ;)

Russell Brown

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:06:56 +1200

Also, I would like to nominate “metadata” as the PAS WOTY. WOT decade, probably, but certainly WOTY.

You'll need to join the queue on that one, buddy.

Russell Brown

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:05:49 +1200

COMING DOWN THE PIKE ….

It appears that the police getting Ambrose’s texts wasn’t the only news in that case file.

Winston Peters says it shows that the police tried to get his phone records too.

He alleges that Key’s office was “in the loop” on the investigation. And that…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 12:51:54 +1200

Also, I would like to nominate "metadata" as the PAS WOTY. WOT decade, probably, but certainly WOTY.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 07 Aug 2013 03:06:30 +1200

It's all coming out now. People have forgotten the incident where the disturbed person tried to climb/fall into the debating chamber. This was leading up to the last general election. Telling footage of John Keys appalling response was censored from the parliamentary video tape within 30 minutes. Never to be…

BenWilson

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:40:32 +1200

I wonder if this was inadvertent as the initial image for the stream

ETA: Sorry, I think "inadvertent" in Keyspeak is "invertant", which might mean something different to what I think.

BenWilson

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:16:46 +1200

I know, right?

I'm not quite proficient enough in duckspeak to understand Key's point there.

Matthew Poole

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:21:03 +1200

the warning issued against Ambrose by Police Assistant Commissioner Malcolm Burgess

(emphasis added)

Those two words highlight exactly the problem. Out here in mortal land, a crime which carries a sentence of only two years would struggle to attract the attention of a detective sergeant. Out here in mortal land,…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:55:41 +1200

GCSB is certainly gaining as a search term on Google, and is slightly ahead of the April peak for the search term “Marriage equality”, but is quite far behind the search term “Gay marriage”. It doesn’t appear to be the political story of the year, but interest is growing.

Only…

Russell Brown

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:08:39 +1200

So… Key just apparently used the teapot tapes in HIS defence. My god.

I know, right?

But this is clearly the line they’ve settled on. It’s the one Steven Joyce was hammering on The Nation:

http://youtu.be/hhBhQjDBy1w

Transcript here, if you’re a glutton for punishment.

Hilary Cameron

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 12:41:01 +1200

So... Key just apparently used the teapot tapes in HIS defence. My god.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Vance-already-has-apology---Key/tabid/423/articleID/307761/Default.aspx

If the seized texts really do show that the recording was inadvertent, then, you know..Pants on fire...

Phil

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 08:45:01 +1200

David Hood

Tue, 06 Aug 2013 08:42:13 +1200

Those polls are taken of ~1000 people who use landlines (as they are only conducted on landlines). They generally have a margin of error of 3%-ish.

New Zealand polls within a few days of each other often show a difference of support for National outside the combined margin of errors…

DexterX

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:57:58 +1200

I have read over the past few months about some outrageous behaviour by Key and National in general, but also that Key is polling very highly. So, what is it that's keeping him high in the polls? Someone obviously likes him (or National), so what is it they like?

Two…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:25:59 +1200

I wonder also how many people would deliberately refuse to vote (rather than failing to vote through apathy) because they could not conceive of considering an alternative no matter how upset they were with their usual choice of party.

To complicate matters further, poorer voters are more likely to be…

Rich Lock

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:15:51 +1200

(2) I'm scared of Russell. Very, very scared.

You are not alone...

It's hard to see this as anything except a veiled threat, really:

[[http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/tooled-up-for-food/|Then there are the Global knives, originally as a set that we impulse-purchased one day then had on layby for nearly a year. Wonderful Japanese knives,…

Sacha

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:09:58 +1200

about 800, 000 at the last election, apparently

Gary Young

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 22:40:54 +1200

nzlemming

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 22:26:33 +1200

Those polls are taken of ~1000 people who use landlines (as they are only conducted on landlines). They generally have a margin of error of 3%-ish. They can be manipulated from here to buggery to give the customer the result desired. Look at the entity that commissioned the poll rather…

Dave Waugh

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 21:51:26 +1200

but the one thing NZ does not have a shortage of is water. Unless of course you are trying to farm a million cows on our one drought prone plain.

Quite true.
I mean seriously when did any town or city last have a water shortage or restrictions over summer........…

James Littlewood*

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 21:41:54 +1200

In reply to Gareth Swain's excellent question about Key's mysterious ongoing popularity, surely it has to be attributed to conservative proletarians.

In other words, it's not that they like Key. It's that they fear change. Even when change would plainly be in their best interests. But of course, who am…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 21:31:51 +1200

Reckon many disgruntled National voters are more likely to vote for Winston First..

Or possibly Colin Craig's Conservative Party (sic, full name).

Sacha

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:57:16 +1200

Yeah, but now it's not a woman bossing me around, so nanny-state no longer applies, right?

And no one has made 'daddy-state' stick. Or done much effective framing of any sort from the left.

Sacha

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:54:43 +1200

The TV political teams seem to spend an inordinate amount of time finding something embarrasing to say about the opposition(s)

Talking power to truth

Sacha

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 20:50:31 +1200

Reckon many disgruntled National voters are more likely to vote for Winston First..

Gary Young

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 18:35:29 +1200

Agreed but B Jones beat me to it.

However, even cold water has a cost attached. It takes money and energy to make it fit for human consumption. And wasting it just because I can feels a bit, well .... selfish.

B Jones

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 17:42:24 +1200

the one thing NZ does not have a shortage of is water.

Cold water, to be sure. It takes electricity to make your showers hot, and I quite like mine like that. An efficient showerhead keeps the power bills down.

izogi

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:55:29 +1200

I have to conclude it is not so much that National is approved of, more they are just considered a default option.

Same here, according to impressions of the inlaws (Taranaki farmers). I heard them skyping my wife in the weekly session the other morning, and they're fairly disgusted at…

Hilary Cameron

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:01:26 +1200

My whole family is of the National voting persuasion, and a large number of my friends. Being from a strong national electorate, that is hardly surprising.

The polling has had me confused too, because all this so-called "spy gate" shenanigans has left an impression on the right wingers I know.…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 16:00:23 +1200

scientifically illiterate frothing at the mouth over the suggestion that we might consider using water-efficient shower heads in new buildings

Light bulbs we agree on – but the one thing NZ does not have a shortage of is water. Unless of course you are trying to farm a million cows…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:44:28 +1200

Yet not noticing that National government has introduced plenty of “nanny-state” policy of its own.

They probably think it's not their problem if such nanny statism only targets the "filthy proles".

izogi

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:37:38 +1200

A few of the somewhat heated 'discussions' I had in the smoko room at work made it quite clear to me that the gender of the prime minister of the day was a significant factor in the objections to the policy.

Towards the end of the Labour-led government, I think…

BenWilson

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:31:54 +1200

Define serious.

"Someone didn't give my jacket back"

Pete Sime

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:02:40 +1200

There are signs that the GCSB issue is breaking out of the Beltway and into public discourse

I had a look at Google Trends – GCSB is certainly gaining as a search term on Google, and is slightly ahead of the April peak for the search term "Marriage equality", but is…

Gary Young

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:59:27 +1200

I seem to recall, at about the same time, the same sort of scientifically illiterate frothing at the mouth over the suggestion that we might consider using water-efficient shower heads in new buildings.

A few of the somewhat heated 'discussions' I had in the smoko room at work made it…

Gary Young

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:53:09 +1200

If commercially owned and run mainstream media become the only influencer of public opinion, what happens to democracy?

Pretty much what has already happened to genuine democracy in the USA under the influence of the privately owned and frighteningly partisan media over there.

Danielle

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:39:41 +1200

the few National supporters that I have ever encountered

The rarefied real-life bubble in which I exist is never more obvious to me than when I read the poll numbers. I cannot think of one single person I see regularly who is a National supporter. And yet they are apparently…

Myles Thomas

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 14:16:14 +1200

You're not disagreeing with me at all. We're in total agreement that there seems to be bias in the mainstream news media.

Not that this is a new thing. Most NZ newspapers have always been publicists for the National Party and the business sector, with a thin veneer of impartiality.…

slarty

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:56:22 +1200

That’s what puzzles me about this. Surely a judge had to issue that warrant,

Quite a few agencies don't have to ask a judge for a warrant in a many circumstances.

Like this one.

Define serious.

81stcolumn

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:29:02 +1200

That’s what puzzles me about this. Surely a judge had to issue that warrant, what judge in his right mind would issue a warrant for a fishing expidition into what was clearly a trivial case at best?

Which would seem to underline the need for extra judicial advocacy in the…

Ben McNicoll

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:17:43 +1200

It is sometimes hard to believe that the people waving through the GCSB bill are the ones who totally lost their shit over energy-efficiency standards for lightbulbs in 2008.

Yeah, but now it's not a woman bossing me around, so nanny-state no longer applies, right?

That, and of course that…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:20:53 +1200

There are individual journalists who would deliver stories to us that their editors and producers are not permitted to fund.

Fair point.

Russell Brown

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:02:46 +1200

Yet not noticing that National government has introduced plenty of “nanny-state” policy of its own.

It is sometimes hard to believe that the people waving through the GCSB bill are the ones who totally lost their shit over energy-efficiency standards for lightbulbs in 2008.

Russell Brown

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:52:02 +1200

If you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear from Russell

I suppose maintaining an imperious silence would be more scary, but ... nah.

The whole"link-whoring" thing puzzles me a bit. I have no problem with people linking to useful and relevant things they've written themselves.

There is the…

merlyngriffith

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:18:07 +1200

There are individual journalists who would deliver stories to us that their editors and producers are not permitted to fund. The whole system is dangerously politicized, and how much worse it could have become without blogs such as these and the internettedness we now inhabit.

Brent Jackson

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:14:25 +1200

Someone obviously likes him (or National), so what is it they like?

The different responses that I have got from the few National supporters that I have ever encountered are :
– "It's nothing the other lot wouldn't do if they had the chance" (arch-cynic)
– "They are better for…

merlyngriffith

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:14:19 +1200

And let's not forget this detail either — the whole incident occurred in a public place to which the PM had invited the media ... the whole thing stinks. As the headline says here, It is worse than we think.

Jeremy Andrew

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:04:56 +1200

(2) I'm scared of Russell. Very, very scared.You are not alone...

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear from Russell

Bart Janssen

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 09:39:56 +1200

journalists ... turning on the govt

I have to disagree. The TV political teams seem to spend an inordinate amount of time finding something embarrasing to say about the opposition(s). At the same time as the government is making genuinely bad law the stories we hear on the news are…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 09:29:11 +1200

To vote against his ability to set the rules is like denying yourself the opportunity to do whatever he did and get $50 million like he did.

That does seem to be the case.

Although it doesn't take much reading to discover that he made his money by being the…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 09:23:04 +1200

fishing expeditions

That's what puzzles me about this. Surely a judge had to issue that warrant, what judge in his right mind would issue a warrant for a fishing expidition into what was clearly a trivial case at best?

Bad enough that the police asked but isn't the point of…

nzlemming

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 08:47:26 +1200

(2) I'm scared of Russell. Very, very scared.

You are not alone...

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 05 Aug 2013 07:31:15 +1200

Hackedman...
“New”?
but you spelt it correctly then...
I was riffing on the Russell's 'enless' typo
:- )

Andin, got it...

Kumara Republic

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 23:42:12 +1200

Interesting that through policy after policy that was knowingly unpopular with the public, this change has come only when journalists' own business is threatened (let's face it, journalists are among the few groups likely to be to be spied on, as has been proved again with the Ambrose revelation).

"First…

Dave Waugh

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 23:07:02 +1200

Interesting that through policy after policy that was knowingly unpopular with the public, this change has come only when journalists’ own business is threatene

The cynic in me suggests that it will be a very very cold day in hell when the Media's* 1st interest is not self interest.

*…

Myles Thomas

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 22:58:03 +1200

It's interesting to see even the most National friendly journalists (Tracy Watkin and much of the DomPost) turning on the govt. Interesting that through policy after policy that was knowingly unpopular with the public, this change has come only when journalists' own business is threatened (let's face it, journalists are…

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 22:10:04 +1200

Or, to put it another way: they defamed him. Though I’m sure they have legal protection for that, even when they do it knowingly and with malice as in this case.

Malice would defeat any defence they had.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 22:08:23 +1200

Or, to put it another way: they defamed him. Though I'm sure they have legal protection for that, even when they do it knowingly and with malice as in this case.

The whole thing's not unlike the old House Un-American Activities Committee, where perfectly innocent Americans had their careers ruined…

Gareth Swain

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 22:05:08 +1200

Thanks to Chris, izogi, B Jones, and I/S for those replies.

Kumara Republic

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 22:03:49 +1200

I'd have to agree about certain people falling hook, line, and sinker for the whole "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" thing. Is it really to do with what Chris Trotter calls "Waitakere Man", or is it a lot more complex than that?

I suspect also we've been affected by the Great Recession…

David Hood

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 22:03:02 +1200

"(2) I’m scared of Russell. Very, very scared."

He has Powers. It's the knowledge, bro.

Idiot Savant

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 21:46:21 +1200

Can someone explain something to me, please?

Idiot Savant

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 21:44:55 +1200

They publicly lied that his behaviour had been deliberate when we now know they had (undisclosed) access to evidence that it wasn't. Not remotely OK.

Or, to put it another way: they defamed him. Though I'm sure they have legal protection for that, even when they do it knowingly and…

andin

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:51:00 +1200

- "the coversation"
Sacha, in reply to Andrew Geddis, about an hour ago Twitter
From your Pundit post:

Not that I’m suggesting anything so crude as that the Police would misrepresent the evidence they had to serve a higher purpose.

Yes the cover-station...

Andrew Geddis

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:39:31 +1200

Oh, and linkwhoring seems pretty welcome in these parts, especially when it's contributing to the conversation. :)

Yes, but:

(1) Linking to two different posts in two successive comments may be pushing the bounds of politeness; and,

(2) I'm scared of Russell. Very, very scared.

Toby

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:06:48 +1200

do I have this right? 1. PM complains to police that man has deliberately intercepted his private communications. 2. Police deliberately intercept man's communications, which show that man did not deliberately intercept PM's communcations. 3. Police insinuate that man deliberately intercepted PM's communcations.

Sacha

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:40:28 +1200

From your Pundit post:

Not that I'm suggesting anything so crude as that the Police would misrepresent the evidence they had to serve a higher purpose.

Wouldn't be so sure anymore.

According to Assistant Police Commissioner Malcolm Burgess, "future occurrences were likely to be prosecuted."

Dick move.

Sacha

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:36:07 +1200

So the Police did the "politic" thing – they sternly wagged their finger at Ambrose

They publicly lied that his behaviour had been deliberate when we now know they had (undisclosed) access to evidence that it wasn't. Not remotely OK.

Oh, and linkwhoring seems pretty welcome in these parts, especially…

WannaBrent

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:35:57 +1200

Another slow news day in NZ peeps....this is not Egypt....thankfully....the bill was outdated, it needed updating most peeps agree, the 5 W's need to be agreed more fully I agree.....it gets the GSCB legal again for now (in terms of the law) and now perhaps time for debate before the…

Andrew Geddis

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:11:32 +1200

it casts an interesting light on the warning issued against Ambrose by Police Assistant Commissioner Malcolm Burgess

Seems pretty clear (to me, at least) what happened here.

(1) The PM made a complaint, which the Police jumped to investigate ('cause it's the PM making it in the midst of the…

Andrew Geddis

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:57:05 +1200

"New"?

See here: http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/the-conversation

B Jones

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:52:03 +1200

I think the lefty counterpart to the fabulously wealthy "self-made" conservative leader would be some sort of a dragon-slayer, a cross between a firefighter and Erin Brockovitch. Hence the respect people still have for Lange's nuclear free business despite Rogernomics.

B Jones

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:44:17 +1200

I wrote something, then izogi said it better.

izogi

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:39:11 +1200

Apparently people perceive him as some ordinary bloke, the guy next door you happily share a few beers and a good yarn with.

I think people make up all sorts of reasons, but I've heard it argued that, subconsciously at least, he's basically the kind of guy that many people…

Chris Waugh

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:22:59 +1200

So, what is it that’s keeping him high in the polls? Someone obviously likes him (or National), so what is it they like?

I have asked similar questions before and the answers I get just leave me further mystified. Apparently people perceive him as some ordinary bloke, the guy next…

Gareth Swain

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:10:39 +1200

[A long-term overseas resident asks…]

Can someone explain something to me, please?

izogi

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:01:30 +1200

The question now is not just how much you trust the executive, but how much you can trust an executive that presides over the screaming absence of constitutional empathy that this one does.

It should always have been the case, really. Even if a presiding executive is trusted, it's likely…

"chris"

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 16:56:56 +1200

This was in 2006, I think.

It seems the NZMSM dropped the ball quite some time ago.

Sacha

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 16:42:17 +1200

it casts an interesting light on the warning issued against Ambrose by Police Assistant Commissioner Malcolm Burgess

What a fraud.

BenWilson

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 16:21:29 +1200

How much oversight is there into whether police can look up phone records? It can't be that much, really. I once went to the police to complain that a guy who I lent my motorbike jacket to when he purchased my motorbike on TradeMe and turned up in a t-shirt…

Chris Waugh

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:44:03 +1200

I've been thinking for a while now that somebody in the opposition needs to propose a Democracy Protection Bill. This government has gotten far too abusive.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:45:54 +1200

covert satiation...
I'm liking the new descriptor for the BanKey mano-a-mano street-theatrepiece
– "the coversation"
:- )

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:24:22 +1200

(Counter Terrorism Bill 2003, if you don’t give them your encryption keys, they send you to jail)

Section 130 of the Search and Surveillance Act is not the terrorism act. It is a law which applies to all imprisonable offences.

David Hood

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:16:06 +1200

"Police spokesman Ross Henderson said police had believed that there had been intentional interception and disclosure of private communications"

Oh, the irony.

Lyndon Hood

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:58:59 +1200

The quote from the cop in that story about how you never know what kind of thing you'll turn up in these situations – makes it sound like they only ever use this search power to go on fishing expeditions.

Kyhwana

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:45:38 +1200

See http://techliberty.org.nz/jailing-people-for-remaining-silent/
(Counter Terrorism Bill 2003, if you don't give them your encryption keys, they send you to jail)

Graeme Edgeler

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:28:15 +1200

While the government/police could use the terrorism act to force you to give up the passwords to encrypted texts/emails, you'd at least then know they were looking and it would be a PR field day if they did that to any journalists. (Especially if that had happened in this case).…

Kyhwana

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:22:56 +1200

Public Address

Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:22:56 +1200

Discussion from blog post.