Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: It's not funny because it's our money

merc

Sun, 29 Jul 2012 14:35:00 +1200

Bring out number weight and measure in a year of dearth.
William Blake
The shocking premise that we are in a year of dearth applies in no measure to why you would sell a company that returns 19% PA, for a loss.

BenWilson

Sat, 28 Jul 2012 15:55:25 +1200

f DARPA had worried about opportunity costs when it began looking at packet-switched networks and ultimately developed the internet then we wouldn't be having this discussion, in this forum, because the internet would never have been created. Sometimes you just need to do it.

Perhaps we might have had something…

merc

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 17:03:25 +1200

I really think opportunity cost sits well with ROI, it's about evaluating alternatives. I don't think DARPA is a good example, I have seen firsthand the military measure, and that is not what we want to think it is.
Crickey, any evaluation measure would be better than what we are…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:50:36 +1200

Funny thing is that with all these experts involved in all these money decisions, not once has any mention been made of good old opportunity cost

See, when you start talking about technologies with transformative possibilities, opportunity cost gets really hard to measure. To pick a topical example, if DARPA…

merc

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:17:33 +1200

Funny thing is that with all these experts involved in all these money decisions, not once has any mention been made of good old opportunity cost, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
I guess it's...

Matthew Poole

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:29:48 +1200

Seemed like a sensible approach to the last 20 metres that suited the local environment there.

Oh, undoubtedly. However, people look at things like that and then try to extrapolate its success into using the same model to support FTTN with a WiFi distribution network to the premises rather than…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:15:12 +1200

Because it’s not the same amount of hardware if you’re selling even 100Mbps into the home, never mind gig.

Yeah, it wouldn't compete well with fibre direct to the home, but in comparison to broadband to the home, wireless connected direct to fibre would tend to be equivalent to several…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:32:14 +1200

I wouldn’t buy (retail) internet service from anyone other than Telstra/Telecom (or Woosh, back in the day).... ...If there were some wonderful technology in the network layer that only X had, then there could be real competition, but they’re all running the same imported hardware and software, just at different…

Paul Campbell

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:48:33 +1200

thanks – sadly in Dunedin we have unused gas mains all through our neighbourhood .... but in its infinite wisdom the city sold them to Telecom for $1 to forestall Telstra actually competing with them – don't you just love a city run by the good ol' boys looking after…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:45:17 +1200

Who owns them in NZ? the city, anyone know? a lines company?

Pretty sure it’s the lines companies who own power poles. They’re certainly the ones who come out and fix them if they get collected by errant automobiles; spent many hours at crash scenes waiting for Vector to show…

Paul Campbell

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:09:45 +1200

in the US each and every pole is owned by someone and others pay to use it – some are owned by cities, some by utilities, some by random strangers

Who owns them in NZ? the city, anyone know? a lines company? in my neighbourhood (Belleknowes in Dunedin) fibre is…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:36:04 +1200

Why provide internet to each apartment when you could provide it to the whole block with the same amount of hardware?

Because it's not the same amount of hardware if you're selling even 100Mbps into the home, never mind gig. Wireless is shared bandwidth, meaning that if you and I…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:57:23 +1200

Relies on an exclusive partnership arrangement between the provider of the physical layer and the provider of the services layers. Which is completely the opposite of the intent of UFB.

Yeah I don't know exactly how it came about, but without having tried it, it seemed like an excellent result…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 27 Jul 2012 09:50:30 +1200

If there were some wonderful technology in the network layer that only X had, then there could be real competition, but they’re all running the same imported hardware and software, just at different settings.

Better caching, better international bandwidth, service levels, quality support, additional services... There are many things that…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 17:18:27 +1200

I wouldn't buy (retail) internet service from anyone other than Telstra/Telecom (or Woosh, back in the day). Everyone I know who's done otherwise has had either:
– finger pointing exercises between the network provider and reseller
– crap customer service, because the way the reseller competes is to cut costs…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:24:24 +1200

But utterly opposed to the ideology of neo-liberalism and pseudo-markets for natural monopoly services.

The physical layer is a natural monopoly. The services atop that layer are absolutely candidates for competition.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:46:40 +1200

an exclusive partnership arrangement between the provider of the physical layer and the provider of the services layers

That would be the efficient way to do it. Have a single community/workforce owned provider with responsibility for the whole stack and a license imposing minimum service standards as a backstop. They…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:26:48 +1200

The local council installed to the telephone pole outside the apartment, and then did partnerships with an ISP to provide wireless from the pole. She got good connection all around her apartment, and just had to pay for an account with the ISP.

Had the massive advantage that she got…

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:18:36 +1200

Personally, I’d have thought a Fibre-To-The-Lamppost technology with wireless of some kind for the “last 20m” would have worked better. That way, there’s no/less premise equipment, no/less marginal cost of connection and the ability to offer free trials.

A friend of mine had this in America about 7 years ago.…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 12:07:42 +1200

The fibre to the post and Gigabit wi-fi to the home seems ideal to me

Sure. And then you have to have one WiFi link per home in order to ensure that the full Gbps per premises can be delivered. Not only are you dealing with the shared bandwidth design…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 09:55:04 +1200

In other crap news...

Nation's CEOs: Raise super age
To assume makes an ass...

stephen walker

Thu, 26 Jul 2012 05:22:21 +1200

Steve, after seeing that excerpt, there's no way i'd open the pdf.in the space of a couple of decades, nz society has been reduced to the level of half-cut pub banter that someone is paid to produce...

BenWilson

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 22:44:54 +1200

And I don't think our economic future hinges on winning at WoW.

No one loses in WoW.

ETA: Or wins.
ETA2: There is some appeal to finally becoming a LPB, though

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:40:14 +1200

Not to mention that the experts in question are making predictions about economics without being economists, about sociology without being sociologists and about engineering without being engineers. I'd trust an expert in a scientific discipline on the specific subject they're qualified in. Someone who folk on the internet think to…

DexterX

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 21:20:58 +1200

I wonder where the money will go.

Nowhere significant – I could be wrong but I don't think it is ear marked for anything in particular.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:18:02 +1200

Even though wireless has made big strides, fixed lines will still be king for a while yet, and latency is the biggie. More than 25 years after the anti-trusting of Ma Bell, it's still the case with America's telco infrastructure.

Opponents of unbundling, including Bruce Sheppard and Roger Douglas, commonly…

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:15:52 +1200

The joke is on and other than bewail the fact there is not much to be done.
I agree, I wonder where the money will go.

DexterX

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:06:49 +1200

The only question for Govt's is, how do we control it? The second question we should ask is, why are they not telling us of the risks involved?
The time has moved on, the electoral system has not kept pace.

With the coalition partners being ruled by self interest the…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:40:53 +1200

latency?

Took you 25 mins to answer.
;-)

Steve Barnes

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:37:18 +1200

The fibre to the post and Gigabit wi-fi to the home seems ideal to me, especially considering the RBI is only promising 1mbps to the home ( PDF)
In fact, if you read that PDF you may well come away thinking we may well have been sold…

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:34:23 +1200

I lived too long to simply take the word expert seriously. Technology should serve, not enslave, and the mute dedication to it belies a dangerous intent.

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:02:19 +1200

LOL

if that's your response to a professional consensus, we'd best not talk about climate change.

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:00:50 +1200

latency?

Jane Pearson

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:37:32 +1200

You make me laugh, Ian.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:35:55 +1200

not nearly the same performance as fibre, is it?

You'd be surprised. 5Gbits enough for you?

More prosaically, 802.11n does 300Mbit/s. I'm getting 144Mbit right now. That's faster than UFB mandates, even on out-of-the-box technology.

What it wouldn't do is allow the digerati, when they meet their global mates…

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 18:09:11 +1200

LOL, rain follows the plough. Maybe we will look back on these years, if we have that chance and we will say, boy did we miss a huge chance there. Trying to do the same things over and over for the same outcomes.
We could have evened up the whole…

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:49:34 +1200

wonder whether we haven't been sold a huge technology dummy

experts seem in agreement it's a good idea

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:48:31 +1200

but that's not the same as wireless for the last part

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:42:41 +1200

It's a question of what is needed for what. Copper is really good. Software can be bloated. Use. Sometimes I wonder whether we haven't been sold a huge technology dummy that has suited Govt. and some few individuals. It's the whole railway steam engine thing for me.
And as for…

Islander

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:36:53 +1200

We got fibreoptic right to each house ....)

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:27:38 +1200

wireless of some kind for the "last 20m"

not nearly the same performance as fibre, is it?

Islander

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:18:02 +1200

Which is what we got in Big O well over a decade ago...

(fibre-to-lamp-post...well, power& telephone pole, there being no lamp-posts round here...)

Sacha

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:10:13 +1200

We would have had more fibre completed if Steven Joyce hadn't sat around negotiating for an extra 3 years. At least a decade earlier if Williamson were less of a chump. And even before that if Prebble, Douglas and co were living in the real world rather than a neolib…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:08:45 +1200

fibre in the ground is fibre in the ground

It's presumably got a lifecycle and will one day be obsoleted. (and the termination kit will age a whole lot quicker).

Personally, I'd have thought a Fibre-To-The-Lamppost technology with wireless of some kind for the "last 20m" would have worked better.…

Lilith __

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:57:40 +1200

maybe not that stirring…

It’s no Gaudeamus igitur !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGXYkfLJ4s

ETA: the line Nos habebit humus does not mean We have the hummus :-)

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:54:05 +1200

Sometimes I wonder if we would have had fibre by now if they hadn't sold Telecom. Then I remembered how State asett sales are good for us.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:44:31 +1200

OK, so I checked:
fibre in humus est fibre in humus
filling, tasty, but maybe not that stirring...

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:37:27 +1200

coming of adage...
fibre in the ground is fibre in the ground
Hmmm... Bet that looks great in Latin...

Kumara Republic

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:15:47 +1200

But, of course, that would have meant upsetting Sky Television.

If they're not upset enough, here's how you can help.

Steve Barnes

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:04:36 +1200

I think by definition it can’t be a white elephant –

Like Duh. t would have to be an Elephant… and white.

that would have meant upsetting Sky Television.
Well, they certainly pissed me off.

Russell Brown

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:17:07 +1200

And while Key and pals are salivating over the sale of our Genertailiers…
NZ can’t afford a NZ$3.5bn broadband ’white elephant’

I think by definition it can't be a white elephant — fibre in the ground is fibre in the ground — but they certainly haven't done a great job…

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 15:11:09 +1200

Now there's an idea. Reinstate the Power Boards.
And public libraries with computers hooked up to the innertoobz for free, with book loaning for free and no overdue fees or any fees at all, with digitized archives...oh wait, that's not only crazy talk it's anti-TPPT (or whateva the thing is…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:56:38 +1200

Whilst on the subject…
Chattanooga Claims America’s Fastest Broadband Service
Chattanooga now calls itself The Gig City — in reference to the fiber-to-the-home network built across 600 square miles of Chattanooga and surrounding Hamilton County. Up to 1 gigabit per second service now is available to…

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:53:43 +1200

It's not their spending, it's the way they are spending.

Steve Barnes

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 14:43:21 +1200

And while Key and pals are salivating over the sale of our Genertailiers…
NZ can’t afford a NZ$3.5bn broadband ’white elephant’
When you’re forking out NZ$1.5 billion on ultra-fast broadband (UFB) you should want to ensure that enough people will buy it.

Earlier this week, Orcon…

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:53:42 +1200

NZ has not been well served by either Labour or the Nats...
You're welcome, it pays to keep me focussed. The really interesting thing concerning both parties and their actions verses their ideologies, is the sharemarket (the actual entity). Nothing proves to me more their real colours than the embodiment…

DexterX

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:49:03 +1200

Sorry meant to say "taking" us to – thanks for the reply.

NZ has not been well served by either Labour or the Nats – hence the emphasis on shades of green.

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:25:20 +1200

Good point, however the NZ sharemarket is known internationally as being somewhat unusual. Telecom would be an interesting case study.
The Govt. that legislates profit for you, can legislate that profit away too. Key is running dangerously close to the wind, as Clark did with Air NZ shares (she recommended…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 10:11:43 +1200

except here in NZ, where that sort of thing is OK, because our sharemarket is not well legislated.

The situation in 2002 was rather different WRT insider trading than it is now. Labour tightened up the rules somewhat. The bigger challenge is the resourcing of the watchdog, which National are,…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:58:52 +1200

Will the real value for the asset sales please stand up?

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:32:11 +1200

A collection of exactly what a share holding Minister does and who they report to and who reports to them and well, how that may affect the sharemarket – in the case of the Helen Clark bailout of Air New Zealand, a very tricky role to be in.
No journalist…

DexterX

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:28:12 +1200

What is the Shareholding Minister Link meant to be taken "us" to.

merc

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 09:10:51 +1200

The only “free” market in NZ is the “wage market” and you could consider this to be in essence a slave market for most – when one sets the average wage against the cost of living.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7342404/Airport-directors-fees-take-off
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7342565/Sales-bonus-share-retreat-amid-speculation
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7339554/Lets-get-on-with-mixed-ownership
The elephant in the corner of the room – share holding…

DexterX

Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:14:56 +1200

The problem with "governance" in NZ is that there are no degrees of separation – that an entity can own and control all aspects of a "chain".

The country is locked up in a series of monopolies and duopolies.

The only “free” market in NZ is the “wage market” and…

Hebe

Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:48:03 +1200

Withthe manner matters are set up in Chch Fletchers will do really well out of it – perhaps even at the expense of everybody esle.

EQR is ordering five million litres of paint. All Resene Quarter-Tea I guess. Let's paint the town beige.

DexterX

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:33:24 +1200

Work is not steady — gaps of a week or two at times. He is not paid for down times, supplies his own tools, works on contract, self-employed so he covers all taxes, ACC etc. He's not getting rich, sometimes he's not getting by.

That is par for the course…

Tamara

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:27:06 +1200

I'm feeling pretty smug that I voted for Julie Genter as electorate MP right about now.

Lyndon Hood

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:32:55 +1200

One of these days people will notice that the Greens are an exceptionally competent party.

In many respects that seems to be the government's concern. I'm trying to recall a response to the Greens from National this term that hasn't been dismissive contempt.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:52:49 +1200

Hopefully enjoying from a safe distance, whatever that might be. Hope to hell they know what they’re doing, because sometimes they don’t.

Which also reminds me of this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_t44siFyb4

Paul Williams

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:09:36 +1200

oh I'd say Labour are noticing, wouldn't you? :)

FWIW, I'm Labour member and am very impressed by a number of the Greens. Very.

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:02:18 +1200

oh I'd say Labour are noticing, wouldn't you? :)

Hebe

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:44:17 +1200

Yep.

mic weevil

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:40:40 +1200

One of these days people will notice that the Greens are an exceptionally competent party.

And it is certainly a breath of fresh air to watch people engaging in the parliamentary process in good faith.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:54:47 +1200

As for the explosion option, the three males in the house are rapt: better than a Crusaders win apparently. We'll be watching.
Hopefully enjoying from a safe distance, whatever that might be. Hope to hell they know what they're doing, because sometimes they don't.

Hebe

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:53:47 +1200

Apologies to all for the threadjack: Christchurch is the only thing about which I know anything of general interest to comment on these days apart from cats and teenagers. I read the rest. I'll try to keep it to the two tales of city thread so youse in the rest…

Hebe

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:38:57 +1200

You see one reason they’re dragging the clearance/rebuild out? Keep wages down, make bigger profits.

(For instance, if they blew up all the hazardous buildings a year ago, as they’re doing with this one, most of the CBD could have been reopened.)

I'm happy that the rebuild is slower than…

Hebe

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:31:10 +1200

More greed, more workers than work in Christchurch my arse.

Close family member is working for a EQR contractor. Work is not steady — gaps of a week or two at times. He is not paid for down times, supplies his own tools, works on contract, self-employed so he covers…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:07:20 +1200

Terry Baucher, about an hour ago

That really is a terrific speech by Julie Ann Genter. Logical, constructive and fact based. Everything the current National government isn’t.

There, fixed that for you.

Matthew Poole

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:06:38 +1200

You see one reason they’re dragging the clearance/rebuild out? Keep wages down, make bigger profits.

Dragging the rebuild out increases their fees if it makes the work cost more. Keeping wages down, however, will reduce their "profits" since they're being paid a percentage-of-costs fee rather than getting a lump sump…

Terry Baucher

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:19:43 +1200

That really is a terrific speech by Julie Ann Genter. Logical, constructive and fact based. Everything Brownlee isn't.

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 07:58:59 +1200

Looking forward to it, because this is a plot that thickens so steadily that I suspect somebody’s cornflour silo may have sprung a leak.

I've been swigging cough syrup for the last three days and it still doesn't make any sense. Never a good sign.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:55:28 +1200

Russell |is writing a post about that one, he says.

Looking forward to it, because this is a plot that thickens so steadily that I suspect somebody's cornflour silo may have sprung a leak.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:49:27 +1200

the Judge

Russell |is writing a post about that one, he says.

Cameron Pitches

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:44:03 +1200

Gerry regularly gets a pasting now in question time, and rightly so. I'm hoping we can get to the bottom of this response pretty soon as well.

Phil Twyford: Did his predecessor intervene on behalf of Infratil to pressure the Auckland Regional Transport Authority, and, subsequently, Auckland Transport,…

DexterX

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:40:29 +1200

The most not funny jokes have to be the Pacific Rim free trade agreement with the US dictating NZ Law and the Judge to hear the Dot Com extradition stepping aside.

at last week's NetHui conference, Judge Harvey cited a tweet by journalist Russell Brown: "We have met the enemy…

DexterX

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:31:27 +1200

This is what the big guy really wanted to say and how he wanted to say it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VXr6U-BwMs

Is that Lockwood Smith playing the pink pasiley telecaster at 1.18 or thereabouts – worth a look.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:11:17 +1200

I expect great things. That's a nice feeling.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 22:09:20 +1200

perfectly understandable :)

Mikaere Curtis

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:49:26 +1200

Go Julie Anne ! In the first video she holds Brownlee to task over what is clearly an ideological road-building programme. My take on the RONS is that they are there to improve property values and lifestyle options for those that have the money to invest in lifestyle blocks.

In…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:44:08 +1200

How did Fukushima handle its insurance claims, given it managed to rebuild relatively quickly despite the massive costs? Insurance gridlock seems to be the big bottleneck in ChCh.

The City That Sued God, indeed.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:42:15 +1200

You see one reason they're dragging the clearance/rebuild out? Keep wages down, make bigger profits.

(For instance, if they blew up all the hazardous buildings a year ago, as they're doing with this one, most of the CBD could have been reopened.)

webweaver

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:41:29 +1200

Gosh – I think I have a girlcrush on Ms Genter – that general debate speech is really spot-on.

Steve Barnes

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:48:57 +1200

From Sofie's Brownlee link,,,
"We probably buy a lot of nails as well, you buy a lot of things," Brownlee said. .
So, he bites his nail too?.

Earlier this week, Fletcher Building's chief executive Jonathan Ling denied claims from the Council of Trade Unions that it's profiting from cutting…

merc

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:37:24 +1200

Awe. (Genter clip).

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:32:05 +1200

Quite – here she is from today’s general debate.

And here is Brownlee with those caring thoughts for Cantabrians, none.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:55:51 +1200

Genter is addressing it now

Quite – here she is from today's general debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9o22L1aEDU

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:55:09 +1200

Don't worry Sacha, I swear not to mention it again. And may I say how much I appreciate your courtesy.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:52:49 +1200

Can we please lay off talking about Brownlee's weight. It just distracts from his behaviour which is more than enough to sustain a discussion.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:49:05 +1200

I'm sorry, I usually find what you have to say reasonable, but are you really concern-trolling about Brownlee's weight with that remark about "risks" . . . I assume you are not his doctor . . .
"Concern-trolling"? In this context you make it sound like practicing online medicine without…

merc

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:47:16 +1200

Parliamentary reform + meteor strikes Auckland this afternoon = John Key

Steve Barnes

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:30:11 +1200

can I politely ask that you shut up now?

No. Your level of comprehension is sadly lacking if you consider asking someone to "shut up" to be polite.
Greed may have been touted as being good in the Eighties but I doubt if I am alone in thinking that time…

Ross Mason

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:12:02 +1200

Been looking for a theme song for our RoNS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqgtsai2aKY

Idiot Savant

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:08:10 +1200

Labour's Phil Twyford has apparently just lodged a Privilege complaint against Brownlee over this. As noted above, it will almost certainly fail – a secondary question is not "a statement of some formality", so MPs apparently have carte blanche to lie and mislead. But by doing so, he signals that…

Emma Hart

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:59:12 +1200

If one eats so much that one becomes overweight it could be suggested that one is greedy.

Steve, if this is your depth of understanding of how human metabolism works, can I politely ask that you shut up now? And perhaps find an issue that matters to talk about?

Steve Barnes

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:47:00 +1200

Presumably it's bad form to draw attention to the fact that he's also morbidly obese.
His size has nothing to do with his personality or ability to do his job, such as they are.
If one eats so much that one becomes overweight it could be suggested that one is…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:36:45 +1200

Genter is addressing it now. Pointing to the bullshit.

Paul Williams

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:15:15 +1200

I still watch NZ question time when I get a chance and although I agree with the comments here about Brownlee and others, NZ question time is a vastly superior process compared with the equivalent in the NSW and federal parliament in Australia. Feel free to check it out for…

TracyMac

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:58:06 +1200

I'm sorry, I usually find what you have to say reasonable, but are you really concern-trolling about Brownlee's weight with that remark about "risks"?

Two things: obesity is not an infallible predictor of heart disease or any other disease, and I assume you are not his doctor; there is also…

merc

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:36:12 +1200

Heh, seriously I don't think Der Kommissar is actually allowed to talk to, write to, or otherwise communicate with the Queen.
Mr Key did and was told to sort out Her Cathedral in Christchurch, which he has promptly done. She is after all the head of the Church Of England.…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:23:51 +1200

Gerry serves at the behest of the Queen

Brownlee: Good morning yer majesty. What can I do for your eminent egrescence?

Brenda: The road from Paraparaumu to Levin?

Brownlee: I know it well.

Brenda: It's a bloody disgrace. I'm informed by young Willy that it took him…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:54:02 +1200

the end result is bigger than he is

I believe that was Russell's key point – this is not some sort of game for fools to play amongst themselves. It's our future, and it deserves more respect.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:30:42 +1200

Sometimes laughter is the best response to people behaving absurdly. Metiria used it to great effect on the recent Native Affairs panel when village idiot Brendan Horan started spouting about the hygiene of the poor (no I’m not kidding).

I/S:Yes, it is. Brownlee has lots of flaws. His appearance isn’t…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:28:33 +1200

I/S, apart from the obvious symtom, morbid obesity isn't about appearance. Brownlee's apparent concentrated workload would be bizarre enough without the added statistical risk factor.

Idiot Savant

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:10:59 +1200

Presumably it's bad form to draw attention to the fact that he's also morbidly obese.

Yes, it is. Brownlee has lots of flaws. His appearance isn't relevant to them.

Greg Bodnar

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:08:08 +1200

I was quite disappointed in Brownlee's mocking of her work. Not because it was hers, but because it's devaluing the relationship between transport planning and urban form. Transport planning has human effects and NZTA must be allowed to assess the impacts. I don't care if Brownlee has a jab to…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:07:50 +1200

The cancelled expressway section was most certainly part of the project – hoping someone pings Brownlee for lying to Parliament.

The Speaker has already made it clear that Ministers can lie to their heart's content in supplementaries, and that it is only primary questions, personal explanations, and other "statements of…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:54:38 +1200

It's probably bad form considering likely links between high workloads, stress and obesity, but if the intent is to appeal to the same crowd who were convinced to rationalise a genuine, serious hate of Helen Clark by reasoning she was ugly and female at the same time, it might catch…

Terry Baucher

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:42:37 +1200

Well put Craig. Facetious remarks are inappropriate when MPs and Ministers are charged with governing including managing over $70 billion spending annually and opposition MPs have the role of holding the Govt to account over that. We shouldn't accept Gotcha questions and snide asides as part of that.

izogi

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:36:06 +1200

Presumably it's bad form to draw attention to the fact that he's also morbidly obese.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:35:05 +1200

We constantly get politicians bitching about how they get no respect and can’t understand why the political process is so often viewed with cynical contempt.
Not from Brownlee you don't. As much as anything it's his utter lack of concern for such trivia that makes him the perfect guy to…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:22:56 +1200

Our “Esteemed Prime Minister” also enjoys this disgraceful abuse of Parliament.

I agree with you, up to a point. This might sound strange coming from me, but I don't think facetious answers to serious questions (I'll err on the side of generosity here) is the right tone to take.

Honestly,…

Lyndon Hood

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:09:26 +1200

eg Can the Minister confirm that Levin Otaki is NOT a RON as he said in his primary.

Gerry: “Yes.”

Now what?

(He did say it twice. At a guess he thinks it’s a section of a RON, not a RON. Not sure if the grammar actually works for that.)…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:01:48 +1200

One of Brownlee's anonymous online acolytes was recently defending his CERA role by claiming he works 80 hours per week. Presumably it's bad form to draw attention to the fact that he's also morbidly obese.

That a proactive political grotesque gets away with this sort of third-world nonsense is an…

merc

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:53:13 +1200

Gerry serves at the behest of the Queen, as do they all. They swear no allegiance to the voters, none at all. Secretly the coalition govt. is trying to behave so terribly that a Republic seems inevitable.
Then, Brownlee for President.
Footnote, would love to join the dots on this…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:48:29 +1200

I wonder if voters mistake bluster for strength, or if they're silently wanting a scared little boy in charge.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:43:24 +1200

I thought by the time Brownlee was forced to tell the lame lame jokes twice he was clearly Not Winning.
Brownlee's brand of gloating philistinism hasn't done his career any harm. This is the guy whose being "too busy" to attend his Ilam candidates meeting didn't even need to be…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:33:25 +1200

Perhaps she should practice her stern face

Russell Brown

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:33:06 +1200

he seems to have bested her

really?

I thought by the time Brownlee was forced to tell the lame lame jokes twice he was clearly Not Winning.

Russell Brown

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:31:43 +1200

And could Genter stop her sniggering at the beginning of answers. That is certainly what you would expect at a ‘4th rate’ comedy club

She was smiling because the business-case reports Brownlee was deliberately mocking were her work — he was trying to get at her. Perhaps she should practice…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:31:02 +1200

he seems to have bested her

Really? Lying and resorting to personal attacks is not usually a sign of success, is it?

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:30:37 +1200

why was Brownlee allowed to get away with his lie

I imagine someone will force him to apologise to the House.

Steve Withers

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:19:57 +1200

Genter is a new MP. She may yet seek to table that information when she has had time to think and consult / get advice. If the Minister is lying that could / should see a complaint to the Speaker....one he can't help but uphold because Brownlee got caught making…

Steve Curtis

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:17:53 +1200

If Otaki- Levin is a RoN , why was Brownlee allowed to get away with his lie. This was the big story and the primary question.

eg Can the Minister confirm that Levin Otaki is NOT a RON as he said in his primary.

Genter had at hand the numbers…

Tristan

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:11:59 +1200

From the Transport Agency website Otaki to Levin

The NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) has completed preliminary work on investigating improvements to the approximately 30km section of State Highway 1 (SH1) from north Otaki to north of Levin. This project is part of the Wellington Northern Corridor, which has been identified…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:05:36 +1200

Genter is talking about over $200m in consulting fees for early stage work on the RONS projects. The policy reports she worked on were worth a tiny fraction of that (and a different form of 'consulting').

The cancelled expressway section was most certainly part of the project – hoping someone…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:00:26 +1200

Hardly a fair contest of intellect, is it? And this is one of the government's geniuses in charge. Sorry, Christchurch. Note Winston sniffing blood and demanding some attention.

Joshua Arbury

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:55:33 +1200

Also surprising that Brownlee doesn't want to do business cases for walking/cycling projects or for NZTA to investigate the economic impact of urban form from a transport perspective.

Joshua Arbury

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:53:17 +1200

The "Levin to Wellington Airport" Wellington Northern Corridor suggests that there's a decent chance the Otaki to Levin section is/was part if that project.

Raffe Smith

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:52:05 +1200

But Otaki-Levin is listed as part of the Wellington Northern Corridor RoNS by the NZTA here. Gerry was telling a fib.

Steve Curtis

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:45:18 +1200

Does seem fascinating that Genter has an ( valid) issue about expensive consultants reports , when she is the author of a number of expensive consultants reports.

As well , to be caught out by Brownshirt over whether Levin- Otaki was a RoN or not seems sloppy

Steve Withers

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:31:18 +1200

Brownlee is one of the ugly faces of the National Party…and I’m not talking about his appearance. Somewhere I have an mp3 of him in full cry, making his contempt for democracy and accountability all too clear. I’ve kept it to remind me there are genuine democracy-hating fascists in the…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:24:12 +1200

Brownlee isn't the first to treat it like open mic night at a third rate comedy club

Our "Esteemed Prime Minister" also enjoys this disgraceful abuse of Parliament. I have said it before and I will continue to pronounce that this, so called Government, is acting more and more like…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:09:33 +1200

Nah, the saddest thing is that Ministerial Question Time is supposed to be a pretty basic mechanism for public transparency and accountability in a legislature that actually has real and lasting impacts on people's lives.

Brownlee isn't the first to treat it like open mic night at a third rate…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:01:29 +1200

Forgive me for raising the roof, but...

Four words: SOCIALISM. FOR. THE. RICH.

Sara Bee

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:49:02 +1200

I can't even bring myself to watch it *rage*

mic weevil

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:46:12 +1200

It is sheer audacity to be asking our Education, Health and Conservation ministries to be tightening their belts while this kind of wasteful spending is taking place.

Public Address

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:46:12 +1200

Discussion from blog post.