As others have said, if you allow the Rita Croskerys…

ScottY – you've nicely, succinctly, summed the matter up.

Agreed – tho being human, judges don't spring fully formed onto the bench from their previous law careers. While they've presumably been appointed because of their experience, as ScottY says, they bring certain prejudices along with whatever ideals they might have,…

That said, I'm not against some forms of restorative justice, or for…

you really believe that justice, as delivered through our current court system, is IMPARTIAL??? Let alone 'on the impartial side'? And, 'objectivity' and the legal system arnt exactly mates either"

Objectivity and impartiality are things our court system should strive for. Because without them we don't have justice. And me,…

I said to my sister, You're on a hiding to nothing. And so…

Uh, no, actually: (links coming. We have lightning storms.)

Sacha, I'm well aware of the larger range of participants in the justice system.…

Mark Harris – you really believe that justice, as delivered through our current court system, is IMPARTIAL??? Let alone 'on the impartial side'?
And, 'objectivity' and the legal system arnt exactly mates either.

What Steve said. (Thx Steve)

What has been missing for a long time in our legal system…

Thanks for the elaboration about utu, Islander. Sounds like strong iwi tikanga kept things in check,…

Mark Harris – you really believe that justice, as delivered through our current court system, is IMPARTIAL???

I think the issue is making it more or less closer to an ideal of impartiality. A victim's family veto on parole would be a move towards less.

and that is where whanau/victims/other…

What has been missing for a long time in our legal system (which is almost wholly statute-based…

I firmly maintain that a family who has had one of their own murdered or severely damaged has a right to say, apropos the convicted person, We lost our whanau member forever – why should you enjoy freedom?

Nope. That's exactly why they should not have the decision. I'm not…

Revenge is indeed not synonymous with justice, but I firmly maintain that a family who has had one of their own…

I certainly would not. Victims' families should of course be involved in the decision, but they are not the people who should be making it.

Me either. Revenge is not synonymous with justice.

And I would support moves to allow family members to totally block parole of people convicted of these crimes.

I certainly would not. Victims' families should of course be involved in the decision, but they are not the people who should be making it.

Apart from anything else, if a…

Spooky, I got This

and he's most afraid of big fat munters and loves living in new nealand.

stewart mouat. a fine kiwi bloke.

impolite to the media waiting outside.

Even before he got outside there was something about the way he was standing in the dock which made me say to myself "they've lost him".

And I was sad. I hope he gets the chance to grow up a different way some time.

…

Criminal lawyers will know of the case – anyone else, type Mouat into Google.

Spooky, I got This

My tongue was in my cheek when I said I believed in utu – under the law

Oops, I completely missed that. That does it, I'm getting a beer.

Maybe this is why it's understandable to call Michael Laws a Chunt.

cough *word of the year* cough

Fine with me, but I've just noticed that Leg Break used it earlier than I did, on a comment on one of the sites Damian was referring to in the original…

http://www.justice.govt.nz/youth/decisions/subject.asp?ppath=subject/e&parent=evidence.asp&inline=years/2003/r-v-rapira-2003-3-nzlr-794-ca.asp

__The accused, led by Phillip Kaukasi, implemented a plan to rob a Pizza Hut delivery driver of food and money. On the day of the robbery the accused arranged which positions they were to take and hid a baseball bat near…

Area size of your shop is indeed a bizarre measure by which to deny someone a licence to sell alcohol.

if we want to go after any branch of the liquor industry responsible for the multi-billion dollar a year bill the NZ taxpayer has to pay, it should be the…

Alcohol doesn't even take up much room.

here

Kurariki. Noted, thanks :)

I saw Tuariki

Kurariki. For crying out loud, if you people are going to discuss someone at least know vaguely what their name is!

Even before he got outside there was something about the way he was standing in the dock which made me say to myself "they've lost…

I think Junior was 14 nei?

It's Bailey Junior, and he was 12 when Choy was killed. Convicted aged 13. Of manslaughter, not murder, which is one of the reasons that he'll be a free man if he can actually keep his nose clean for a few months. Not that…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIOL5SSjWdw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeP3mipHQY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y3f61DXnfU

Is it because he wasn't convicted of murder?

That's enough of you legal sorts and "pointing out what really happened". Back to the cheap seats.

Islander, I don't think I'll ever accept the fact a 12yr old was convicted of murder as any form of 'justice'.

Is it because he wasn't convicted of murder?

this brings us to when are humans responsible for their acts.

We know our brains are more or less mature at 25 (if we're healthy, undamaged = lucky.)

Our law/legal system determines whether we can be found liable for an act (criminal act) -a child can be.I…

Maybe this is why it's understandable to call Michael Laws a Chunt.

cough *word of the year* cough

The 'your views' is roughly on par with dear Granny's errr 'readers'.

Just had a squiz through the proposed Booze Act & some of it is really good and some of it is knee jerk stuff.

Advertising and police actions are tightning up, which seem…

Can someone explain to me how the use of Eskimo in this context is offensive?

The word itself is offensive, and deeply so. That people will accept a word that describes their race does not mean the word is not racist in its origin, if not its intent.

The self-designation…

But if Russell were to write his biog on here and license it under Creative Commons, somebody could cut and paste it onto Wikipedia with a reference back, and it would be all sweet.

I'm heading over to Haywood's this weekend. I'm sure between us we can 'do something about'…

That Editing the Herald piece was pretty funny, Tom. My favourites:

I must add:
__Bruce f (Te Kuiti): I find the terms English toffee, Scottish shortbread, Welsh rarebit, Irish cream, Kiwifruit, Australian Coon cheese, etc., all very offensive! Come off it you P.C. clowns. Wait until my mate Eskimo Joe…

But if Russell were to write his biog on here and license it under Creative Commons, somebody could cut and paste it onto Wikipedia with a reference back, and it would be…

" __Sasha Siale (Queensland): Oh dear,here goes another issue risen which will not stop the crime in the worlds! Eskimoes are one of my favourite childhood lollies must I say.
I feel insulted just for being told to…

Not everyone is going to agree with her, but it doesn't mean she can't complain.

Never said she couldn't, Lucy. I just have to wonder if there are indigenous peoples who've got much bigger shit to deal with than confectionery at the last toilet stop before the South Pole.

I…

Nope, the real issue is that there are some people who 1) need to get a life of their own, and not run around getting offended on behalf of people who might not appreciate the presumption

Given that the young lady who began the whole debate *is* Inuit, I think…

Isn’t the real issue here the fact that there are sweets shaped like ... people??

Nope, the real issue is that there are some people who 1) need to get a life of their own, and not run around getting offended on behalf of people who might not appreciate the…

1. Ranginui Walker = mana. Every time I meet that man I'm just so impressed by his grace.

I first encountered him as a very earnest first year Pols student at Auckland. He did a guest lecture on the Treaty in a 101 class. It was a seminal learning experience…

Are you hinting at a liberal definition of "grew up" there Russell?

No comment.

and "grew up in Timaru".

I suppose you could call it that ...

Would you prefer 'prematurely aged'?

"grew up in Timaru"

Aaah, the Peter Pan of South Canterbury?

She's from Timaru.

So am I, apparently.

Athough my Wikipedia article now says I was born in Lower Hutt and "grew up in Timaru".

I suppose you could call it that ...

2. I met Emma Hart's mum! She's lovely.

Shut uuuuuup...

Don't believe a word she says. She's from Timaru.

Just back from tonight's recording. Report:

1. Ranginui Walker = mana. Every time I meet that man I'm just so impressed by his grace.

2. I met Emma Hart's mum! She's lovely.

I say you're not old until you start using words like 'nowadays'. Possibly in connection with TV1's Sunday night programming.

Nowadays my broadcast pleasure mainly come through the wireless – with the exceptions…

Maybe this is why it's understandable to call Michael Laws a Chunt.

That elicited an actual LOL, Steve. ;-)

[hides behind desk]

But then, haven't virtually all peoples inhabiting any nearly any place you care to name "evolved [t]here as a uniique response to the land and the generations of history that have passed...." to some degree or other?

Yes, and that's kind of the point. It's not an individual that is…

Wanganui mayor Michael Laws, who was holding a referendum to decide the most preferred name for his town, said the geographic board's decision was "crazy" and culturally biased.

"Where else could you go in the world and the locals have actually two different names for everywhere?"

Gee, Michael, I don't…

Isn’t the real issue here the fact that there are sweets shaped like ... people??

My son is starting a campaign against Jelly Babies just as soon as his neural impulses develop the association.

"Where else could you go in the world and the locals have actually two different names for everywhere?"

Have overhead a group of American tourists in Florence saying "what's this Firenzeeee that's all over the place?"
It's comforting to know that Lawhs has reached their level of worldly knowledge. Bro.

Isn’t the real issue here the fact that there are sweets shaped like ... people??

I would have thought so, anyway. If someone developed a sweet that was based on Maori, and they called it "Maori", wouldn't that be weird?

Stephen
"Warm the hands on." I think we'd better move away from gender differences. Let's have a look at the picture. What would you call this person here behind you?

[Viewscreens: Picture of a young…

Wanganui mayor Michael Laws, who was holding a referendum to decide the most preferred name for his town, said the geographic board's decision was "crazy" and culturally biased.

"Where else could you go in the world and the locals have actually two different names…

And when you think about it, that’s a bit yuk.

(Says someone who does enjoy eating the odd plane from time…

Yes. For example, Maori are all descendents from Polynesian settlers, yet "Maori" as a culture is indigenous because it has evolved here as a uniique response to the land and the generations of history that have passed since then.

Hmmm, good response. But then, haven't virtually all peoples inhabiting any…

Is anyone really indigenous, apart from Africans?

Not to get metaphysical, the main point was that the Dorset Culture predate the so-called Eskimo, and in some parts of the far North regions the Norse predate them or arrive contemporaneously. So they aren't any more indigenous than the Greenland Norse would…

Dyan, I'm intrigued. How did the Inuit get to do that for the Yupik, who are Eskimo but not Inuit and don't want to be called Inuit? Were the Yupik there?

I…

Is anyone really indigenous, apart from Africans?

Yes. For example, Maori are all descendents from Polynesian settlers, yet "Maori" as a culture is indigenous because it has evolved here as a uniique response to the land and the generations of history that have passed since then.

I have no idea if it objectively/historically is or not, but who really cares? Do the polite thing and call 'em something else, why the hell not ?

UN official new favourite for Labour nomination in Mt Albert.

Nice one Stuart – way back on page 1. I get it.

Honestly, how much could it cost to get someone from the US of A to do a bit of rendition on Messrs Watson and Hotchin, waterboard…

Historical question: in books from some time ago the islands are called "North Island" and "South Island"---capitals and no determiners.

As late as 1874, Anthony Trollope was still using 'the Northern Island' and 'the Southern Island,' but 'the Southern Island' was Stewart Island. What is today the South Island was called…

Out of interest, what's the objection of Waiheke Islanders to joining T/C?

What Uroskin said...

Plus, I think the, um, oblivious manner in which Mr. Ceramalus has ploughed on really irritates people.

We expect that from our Overlords at City Hall, but not from one of our own – the…

Can someone explain to me how the use of Eskimo in this context is offensive?

Er, same way as the above examples would be offensive, I imagine.

(Imagine the reaction Taig candy would get, frex.)

Of course, it is also possible that Eskimo wasn't really offensive originally, but apparently it…

Maaaaat-loooooocckkk!

If Banks gets in, I forsee a Matlock Expressway runing along the East Coast Bays.

there's spleen-a-plenty under the Sunrise story.

God those comments are hilarious. For weirdest counter example:

...If there was Kiwi Pie and all Kiwis had a sheep attached to their genitals would it cause a stir ...

For kiwi class:

Thanks for buying the lollies you dont like the name of…

I can see advantages if I was an islander, as I almost became at one stage:
– no Banks
– no being part of the supercity
– more influence on a smaller local body
– being part of…

Historical question: in books from some time ago the islands are called "North Island" and "South Island"---capitals and no determiners.

Does anyone know when these (clearly unofficial) names dropped the capitals (usually) and gained the "the"?

Then again, I've just checked and there's no sign of spleen in the '3 interact' section so a) it didn't work, or b) I was completely wrong...

there's spleen-a-plenty under the Sunrise story.

And the news version.

Although one viewer does make the very sound point that [[http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22eskimo+pies%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryCA&aq=f&oq=|Canada seems to have…

He suggests we officially rename them as "The North" and "The South"

It's interesting that…

looking at the way television fails to provide for commercially-unattractive older viewers

Maaaaat-loooooocckkk!

Really, she actually seemed to have a good point.

By the end of the week there will be a hate crime complaint against Cadbury at one of the Canadian HRCs.

It's a legitimate story all right, but handled poorly. That part about N.I. Minisprint was just moronic, frankly.

Did wonder (after the customary bellowing) if it was a ploy to get more people visiting their website.

Combine two stories that seem tailor-made for an ill-tempered, Your Views like rant and…

if the Aussies found `kokoda trail white devils' candy in Japan

Well, given that this is freely available in the dairy section of the average Australian supermarket, I think they'd be on somewhat shaky ground....

There, done, local into the bargain, and the value should work out the same once Pascals balance the extra height against the slightly thinner build.

It's the least…

misspell them as spectacularly as Cook did: Toai Poonamoo and Ea Heinom Auwe.

Possibly a reasonable transliteration of the way the people he met pronounced them?

As for the eskimo 'story', it is fairly banal. What is next under threat--Pinky bars (for their homophobia?) Or jet aeroplanes (because they are too militaristic)? This just gives more fuel to the tedious 'anti-PC" mob.

Eh, if a Maori girl went to Canada and found some `cannibalistic south seas…

Somewhat of a side track: can one still purchase Space Man candy sticks?

Yes you can, but they don't have the red bit on the end that made them look like, um, the rockets were firing or something.

but of course they were never intentionally sold as cigarette lookalikes,were they?

Here in Indo, Philip Morris sponsor underage gigs and your $2.50 entry fee includes a free packet of ciggies. Oh, and also run ads everywhere which say Pria Punya Celeria..essentially cigarettes make men strong. The last frontier......

Also, blasphemy – the Internet reveals that Space Man candy doesn't come with the suspicious glowing red tip any more, and the graphics have been ruined.

What is next under threat

next they'll be banning those fake candy ciggies.

Got to get rid of the surplus aitches.

Nah, if you really want to be consistent with the whole Whanganui thing, you need to misspell them as spectacularly as Cook did: Toai Poonamoo and Ea Heinom Auwe.

Re. the Media7 discussions tonight. I would love to see Anthony Flannery, the Australian head of our State broadcaster's newsroom, answering questions as to why there are so few Maori and older people in his newsrooms.
Jonno: WTF is the enitrely gratuitous and irrelevant 'Australian' reference about?

Its about an…

The first two in particular were of relatively minor news value and none would have led, IMHO, without playing up the controversy angle. This in particular wound me up:

__3 News searched for groups that use North Island in their title. We talked to the North Island Minisprint Club whose…

– 10% of voters signed a petition, so it goes to the LGC

– Must the LGC hold a referendum, or can they reject it on grounds (like Waiheke is the planned site for…

What is amazing that the LGC is actually consisdering this, given it was only requested by 10% of islanders who bothered to sign the petition. I'd have thought that 90% opposition would have been enough to laugh this out of court.

10% is a lot to have sign a petition.…

I really wish they'd stop.

They won't. It's too easy to generate these "outrage" stories. The news media are often accused of runnng only bad news stories. But I call this latest trend "mad news" – stories calculated to provoke outrage and controversy.

I've blogged about this if anyone wants…

you're not old until you start using words like 'nowadays'.

What about "And just look at the way he's painted her lovely pubic hair, so lovely and fluffy", keen as hell through a toothy grin. Would that be old? Or something else.

Antiques Roadshow

Watched an old one last night on the Living Channel and it was particularly awesome. Does this make me old?

Why, yes it would, Mr Brown. But then if you factor in your very eclectic music tastes, and the fact that you sometmes attend very loud gigs, I…

Good timing on the Media 7 panel subject. The top three stories on TV3 last night seemed to be pitched specifically to generate maximum race relations outrage: Maori names sought for North and South Islands, Eskimo lollies slammed as racist by Canadian tourist and the UN conference.

Oh definitely. I…

Anybody with friends or family caught up in the Hanover Finance debacle might be interested in what Hanover co-founder Eric Watson has been up to.

I suggest they spend more time investigating the governance, shareholding and inter-party issues of Hanover than something as completely unrelated as a birthday party which…

Or is Eric really the toast of the town in Constantinople? (Now Istanbul)

Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks.

The way the photos were presented, there seemed to be a pre-ponderance of (I assume) Turkish celebs present. The question is whether they were the equivalent of rent-a-slebs who are paid to turn up at swarrays like this to…

Re. the Media7 discussions tonight. I would love to see Anthony Flannery, the Australian head of our State broadcaster's newsroom, answering questions as to why there are so few Maori and older people in his newsrooms.

Jonno: WTF is the enitrely gratuitous and irrelevant 'Australian' reference about?

Watched an old one last night on the Living Channel and it was particularly awesome. Does this make me old?

Also: Two Fat Ladies is my crack. Or possibly heroin.

You know who was awesome? Sister Wendy.

I say you're not old until you start using words like 'nowadays'. Possibly…

Anybody with friends or family caught up in the Hanover Finance debacle might be interested in what Hanover co-founder Eric Watson has been up to. NBR reports on Watson's extravagant 50th birthday party in Istanbul. The pictures are here.

Apparently the theme was bring a partner dressed like they have…

(I read something at some point about Coro saying that it had a surprisingly large number of younger women viewers, in their 20s and 30s. Hmm.)

The first two in particular were of relatively minor news value and none would have led, IMHO, without playing up the controversy angle.

Totally agree. I had to switch the news off after the Eskimo story – slow news day for sensationalist journalism?

We talked to the North Island Minisprint…

Antiques Roadshow

Watched an old one last night on the Living Channel and it was particularly awesome. Does this make me old?

Also: Two Fat Ladies is my crack. Or possibly heroin.

looking at the way television fails to provide for commercially-unattractive older viewers

I pondered this after the Boston Legal episode, given how much more television my mother watches than we do, and I don't think we're as badly off as the US, because British tv seems to have a long…

But I think you can certainly argue that the government has made such abrupt and profound changes to the structure recommended by the commission that Aucklanders' consent needs to be sought.

Too true. Dame Margaret Bazley made it clear on NatRad that the Royal Commission report was to introduced as…

The first two…

Any plan to use an excerpt of that storyline from Boston Legal last week (IIRC) where aid viewer sues the networks?

Good guess!

Yes — we intro with that very excerpt.

Mr Grey Accountant might not have the glitz of Eric Watson, buit at least he wouldn't spend your mum's money on parties in Istanbul. (Suspiciously close to the…

We don't need to abandon our democracy just so we can host a few…

commercially-unattractive older viewers

Any plan to use an excerpt of that storyline from Boston Legal last week (IIRC) where aid viewer sues the networks?

Phil