http://publicaddress.net/6378

And the thread is therefore closed.

(Just trying to help)

Your comments about Io give me a good insight into your lack of understanding –

i fear it is you that doesnt understand

your comments suggest you follow your head more than your heart

the head is sometimes wrong, the heart never is

sometimes the head will do wrong to…

I'm just really, really looking forward to reading Islander's response to that ...

to be fair, it was lucys inference that suggested the comparison if you equate the da vinci code to song of waitaha and the catholic church to maori mythology.

what i find interesting is the underlying disownership…

Or someone could just link to the conversation about exactly this topic only weeks ago. Please.

Here you go. Sacha is perfectly right: we have *done* this one, and there's no great need to do it again in this thread.

That is one of only 2 books I have hurled across my living upon finishing it. It was badly-written dreck. The exploitation…

That is one of only 2 books I have hurled across my living upon finishing it. It was badly-written dreck. The exploitation…

so umm lucy you havent read it have you ? have…

For a major urban centre it is predominantly Caucasian (about 85% I think). I'd surmise the ratio of racist f/wits per head of population problem doesn't deviate that…

Just thinking – the 3 kete of knowledge brought by Tane are part of some tribal tradition.

pollywog – no, it…

forget the bullshit and the hype but read of 'song of waitaha' and make your own mind up. its a beautiful book.

Quite possibly. As an introduction to general Maori mythology, though, it's about as useful as the Da Vinci code is as an introduction to Catholicism.

I don't know, I deliver via Interflora and they're pretty busy at the moment.

There's no Interequine?

Dawn Raids fit the bill as an organised, officially encourage... persecution of a minority group, and like Pogroms were/are often the result of a group being…

are you talking here of IO ?

The Unbegotten is the source of everything in the esoteric tradition rather than a creator-god per se.

would it have been so hard to say yes:)

so as a realist with no purveyance of nostalgia or mysticism. its fair to say you dont…

Does that mean I can now expect a horse's head in my bed, Giovanni ?

I don't know, I deliver via Interflora and they're pretty busy at the moment.

was a descent bloke.

Lovely Freudian typo! :-)

I'm really interested in myth making and the twists and turns it takes today. I was told Bracken studied things Maori and by all accounts was a descent bloke.
So this seems credible to me, of…

Islander can you recommend a decent Maori mythology tome? In English...my Maori needs a lot of work.

The Reed Book of Maori Mythology is fairly classic, and the 2004 edition is well-organised by theme. The introduction does admit a number of problems with mashing-up of stories from different iwi, but…

But I will repeat my earlier point that Berlusconi's People of Liberty Party received below average support in Milan (33% compared to 37% nationally).

Yes, and the centre left lost the provincial elections something like 50.2% to 49.8%. It's more the fact that he can hold it at all that…

But I will repeat my earlier point that…

Just for Mr Mark's benefit, where we got to with the whole Christchurch thing is that there is a myth that Christchurch is very class-conscious, exemplified by the “what school did you go to”, “most English city” and “first four ships” memes. Whether the…

actually it seems that a strangely large number of threads lead to Timaru

Do many ever return, though?

..."all threads eventually lead to copyright"

damn. i was rather hoping that all threads led to slagging off christchurch...

(GIOVANNI TISO):"Milan is the centre of Berlusconi's empire...that's where the hardcore of his electoral support resides."
Ahhhh, but have you any evidence to back that up, Giovanni ? I mean, yeah of course his ownership of AC Milan (I'm an Inter fan, myself :-) ) and his early background in…

Are they the same ACTA who want to take away our internetz?

Now you're really fucking with my mind. And er, "all threads eventually lead to copyright" for the win again!

On the other side of the debate, trade groups such as the American Christmas Tree Association

That is possibly the coolest name for an organisation ever. I want to be a member.

Readers feeling the need to unburden themselves of other noughty thoughts are invited to avail themselves of the discussion thread for this post.

According to the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) agriculture census for 2002 (the census is done every five years) there were 21,904 farms were producing conifers…

The 3 'baskets of knowledge' are part of a series of gifts from a creator-god (I write 'a creator-god' because there are variant myths.)

are you talking here of IO ?

(PHILIPMATTHEWS):"...two-thirds of Chch residents opposed the tour."
Exactly. And there are some other, almost entirely-neglected, statistics from certain polls of the time which emphasise just how much Chch stood out from other centres (including other major cities) for its opposition…

Just seen the ad for Pitch Black at Sandwhiches .

Off for a cheez whroll now...

God, when did I get so old...

...when you stopped feeling younger partners ?

fuck civility...it's overrated. in real life my eyes glaze over, my ears tune to the background noise and i just wander off in mid sentence rather than suffer fools talking shit.

Aw... I do that too, even when I'd really like to punch some of those smug Mofo-bros in their…

people think thats rude but fuck what they think. they dont realise if i say what i think to…

Hey New Zealand, you're quite neat
A rugby team only France can beat
A small contribution to rising heat
God! Kumara is nice to eat.

Got to admit it is quite sweet
Despite our stinky jandalled feet
We deserve an occasional treat
Cos we live in New Zeeeeeealand.

Don't dream…

an opinion he could remember

an opinion he wanted to remember

Got to admit it is quite sweet
Despite our stinky jandalled feet*
We deserve an occasional treat
Cos we live in New Zeeeeeealand.

Every newborn a buzzy bee.
Keep our nation nuclear free!
Day at the beach and a baaaar-bee.
Ao-te-a-ro-ha.

I think it's in Tom Newnham's book Of Batons…

...and i've experienced the routine racism of chur chur in both the old boy way of doing business, the subtle jokes about doing 'maori jobs' and the classic 'go home nigger' yelled by the…

(JUST THINKING):"...in OZ I've never come across the routine racism I see often in Christchurch."
Yeah, you often hear that about Chch. But I wonder if the city simply has a more active and visible – rather than larger – Far Right ? Some research I've been doing recently suggests…

And as a newbie (the Hard News equivalent of a small, naive, glossy-eyed baby arctic fur seal), I'll sincerely try to be appropriately deferential to the site's old-timers (doff my cap…

Dear Just thinkiing- you can guarentee that there wqs *never* a triple star in any way of maori esoteric thought ( we actually used to think in 7s.)

Nothing crept in during the 19th century from Christianity (Holy Trinity etc.)?

Likening dawn raids to pogroms I find more than a little distasteful.

Especially when they were quite dreadful enough without the seasoning of rhetorical theatre...

Three Islands
Three Stars
Three Kite of Knowledge

http://www.knowledge-basket.co.nz/kete/about/baskets.html

But of course meaning is in the eye of the beer holder.

kinda crap Kai Tahu one

werd homeslice:)

A sorry purveyor of reality, not nostalgia or mysticism.

jeez...what sorta maori are you ?

A sorry purveyor of reality, not nostalgia or mysticism.

a little global warming, a few meted ice sheets and it may well turn out he was right .....

He was also right a few million years ago. When I said traditional, I meant really traditional.

That one will be forever reserved for the con..um...liberation of Australia.

I see no…

I for one think we should return to the traditional values that made this country great and abandon this "Banks Peninsula" nonsense. The discoverer of our nation said it's an island, and that's good enough for me!

a little global warming, a few melted ice sheets and it may well…

the West Island

That one will be forever reserved for the con..um...liberation of Australia.

Now that speights has been bought by Japan perhaps we can give the triple star to Emersons ....

Or if you're James Cook Banks peninsula ....

I for one think we should return to the traditional values that made this country great and abandon this "Banks Peninsula" nonsense. The discoverer of our nation said it's an island, and that's good enough for me!

(Other options include: Somes Island,…

(There was an article in the North Shore Times on December 10 about Thomas Bracken and the anthem).

The three stars are usually the three islands of North Island,…

"From dissension*, envy, hate
Ladies, please bring a plate"

Men a bottle, don't be late!
This arvo in our free-ee land!

Carry on, the rest of you.

We think we were the first to fly
And we're stuck with P to get us high
We must always blow on the piiiiiiiiiiie...
Hamilton has Geoff Lea-ea-land

We are liking this one :)
@P Litterick
Can you email me? I have a plan.

or

"Guard our country's spotless name
For that grubby mark, I'm not to blame"

Someone tell me to stop....!
* what exactly is that?

Or something.

ETA Good point, Paul. How many nations have to share this van? Do we all get in it at once,…

Lets us all sing a song of joy
For Sir Ed and Susan Devoy

Don't dream it's over
Whilst we still have the pavlova

Hey New Zealand, you're quite neat
A rugby team only France can beat
A small contribution to rising heat
God! Kumara is nice to eat.

Now that's what I'm talking about. I think we can weave Stephen's lines in now:

Got to admit it is quite sweet
Despite our stinky…

So the tune is decent, and with a bit of syncopation it could really swing, but man, are those lyrics due for an overhaul. "Men of every creed and race"?…

But I really just popped in to belated high-five Ben W for this:

Right back at ya, although I'm worried it's a witicism. My belated and almost certainly plagiarized sole entry to the actual topic of this thread.

But if the nation had a van, it would be a…

You'd never get away with that over here (although funnily enough you can get away with ribbing a kid for being an atheist — our then 7 year old didn't mind too much, as it gave him…

It might not excuse the method of Williams' approach, and I am not usually one for agreeing with Jim Anderton, but there are some valid observations in his release today....:

Sigh... When the shuttle containing Jim Anderton's brain lands could someone give me a call? Williams has gotten extensive media…

If it came up at all I'd be amazed. Do tell.

I've come across it at a club with people saying that "we needed jews to look after the money". I gave them a five minute history about how being forced to be moneylenders had screwed Jews over and given…

We've offered to (almost…

I thought bullying was banned in schools.

A good example of when an 'irony' tag would have come in handy?

How do you do a reverse question mark, when you can't copy from above? Sorry, so many procedural questions. Better go back to school. Although that'll bring back those nasty…

FWIW i always envisage pacifics triple star as representing the 3 points of the polynesian triangle and it being our duty to guard it against colonials but alas...

I think it's meant to actually be the 3 main islands. North, South, Waiheke.

you'd be amazed how often that comes up, out of context, at school in NZ

If it came up at all I'd be amazed. Do tell.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4818/eveningkobe.jpg

FWIW i always envisage pacifics triple star as representing the 3 points of the polynesian triangle and it being our/god's duty to guard it against colonials trying to shaft us but alas...

so how come we're still asking god…

The weird thing is this is Dunedin – most of those…

I thought bullying was banned in schools.

Having spent the past few months battling my son's school where fellow pupils have 1. harassed him about his hair colour, 2. pushed him into walls, 3. hit him with a shoe repeatedly over the head, and where a teacher has told him…

"If you don't sit down, we'll have to throw you off the plane!"

I thought bullying was banned in schools.

Oh boy... where does one start?

His post is here

http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/12/14/campbell-tolleys-last-stand-those-mayoral-text/

The piece above that on Tolley's outrage is also good. If that's the way we treat the governance body of our education sector, what hope do our kids have? I thought bullying was banned in schools.

automagically

Where has this word been all my life?

How do you embed a YouTube?

Just paste the URL, as long as it has 'www' in it. It happens automagically.

another 'They Might Be Giants' song

Man, no one ever has any OG love for The Four Lads.

Perhaps I should rephrase that. I see a slight possibility of misinterpretation.

Anyway, another 'They Might Be Giants' song that was a favourite, and Number One on the bFm top ten circa 1988, was this. Love the video.

Sorry for more flippancy after a…

Mayor gets unfair drubbing by Key’s cheer squad

Mayor Andrew Williams is being given an unfair drubbing by the John…

I'm sure we've talked about this before, but I've always been tickled by 'guide her in the nations' van'

I know of someone who always wondered where this Bonza Club was that we were all going to meet up at. They reckon it sounded excellent. Bonza in fact.

I woke up one morning and found that I was dead, which was something of a shock

It happens to me a lot...common name unfortunately.

Being vain, I have a Google News Alert for my name: I woke up…

Weird, isn't it? I have no idea how or why it came about.

I just assumed you were running for the mayoralty of Super City (not Auckland) or something.

And, like Tuwharetoa, Tahu has it's own flag – which we tend to fly on Waitaki Day, and any other occaision we feel like flying it.

It's rang*a*tiratanga, right?

What do the asterisks mean?
Timaru (not Constantinople)

After all, those A-Team boys were pretty ingenious with whatever was lying around, and that fits in well with the No.8 wire mentality.

And with global warming kicking in, maybe 'I ain't getting on no plane!' should be a national catchphrase?

comes replete with a ready made anthem

everyone does…

Can we at least come to an angreement as to the spelling? It's rang*a*tiratanga, right? I've seen both versions used throughout the thread and in newspaper articles all week.

Guilty. And embarrassed.

Will now go ease the pain of dented spelling pride at company Christmas party.

Air NZ was bailed out – so total privatisation clearly doesn't work for infrastructure, but socialism for the rich does.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10615846

You mean we could just put Timaru in brackets after a sentence to indicate sarcasm? It has potential. As in, "That transmission gully is a grand idea (Timaru)."

I think the backwards question mark is at least more efficient. According to Wikipedia it is used for either irony or Sacracasm,…

Still, that particular symbol might solve the long-standing problem of the raised-eyebrow emoticon ⸮:-|

You mean we could just put Timaru in brackets after a sentence to indicate sarcasm? It has potential. As in, "That transmission gully is a grand idea (Timaru)."

What a great idea.

Yeah, we're going to need a sincerity mark.

I'd suggest Timaru also; as an indicator for sarcasm I mean.

You mean we could just put Timaru in brackets after a sentence to indicate sarcasm? It has potential. As in, "That transmission gully is a grand idea (Timaru)."

And what about irony?

ETA: What I meant is that Emma was obviously also being sarcastic, just to be overly clear.

Or indeed recognising it.

You don't have to snipe at everything, Giovanni. Let some things go.

I'd suggest Timaru: already has a motorway in and out, a good port and could use the influx of bright and interesting people ...

And there really should be a lot more bogans in our civil service.

Need to find some way of indicating sarcasm.

Someone once suggested (!) but it completely failed to take off after I made a rather crude obsevation about it.

I'd suggest Timaru

Dude, stop drinking the water, right now. (Srsly, it tastes appalling.)

Means the new capital of Palmerston North (Craig) could still have easy access to the rest of the world.

If we're going to move the capital, it's only fair that the South Island gets a go. I'd suggest Timaru: already has a motorway in and out, a good port and…

could be built with that money

That's the important thing when looking at any of these loony highway-building projects. It's real sustainable transport for our children and theirs that you're seeing pissed into the pockets of a few wealthy contsruction companies and party donors.

On the other hand, who's never driven into Levin thinking man, I wish I could have got here 23 minutes earlier?

You've gone wrong there. Otaki: wholesale shops of quality clothing, and the Otaki races which I will be missing this year due to leaving the region two days earlier…

trains on the same route will not have toilets

That would be socialism. Consistent with his belief in private enterprise, perhaps Joyce is instead planning to subsidise porta-potties for individual car drivers to reward their personal.. efforts.

Maybe we need a proper approach to deciding on what a Maori flag needs to be, and perhaps at the end it will be Tino Rangatiratanga, or maybe another design will emerge.

The whole flag issue really feels like cart before the horse to me. Of a million issues that…

.Oh yeah, let's eviscerate Wellington.

On the other hand, who's never driven into Levin thinking man, I wish I could have got here 23 minutes earlier?

Transport Ministry documents show it could take longer to reopen after an earthquake than the coastal route, and ministry officials told Mr Joyce this year that the economic benefits were low. But public support remains high, with…

The obvious cliché is; if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It seems to be accounting. Shifting one lot of monies to another scheme looks all shiny and new, and for National (albeit Turia) The polytechs have had a right rogering thanks to Trolley, the bat…

And while the long awaited new trains on the same route will not have toilets as that is too expensive.

Hilary: I'm going to ask my partner to reply…

However, National MP Georgina te Heuheu is against the idea. When asked by ONE News if she supported the idea of flying the flag, she replied: "On our marae, we'll fly our own flags."

So, remind me again — who the hell is suggesting that Tuwharetoa marae (or anyone else)…

After all, those A-Team boys were pretty ingenious with whatever was lying around, and that fits in well with the No.8 wire mentality.

And with global warming kicking in, maybe 'I ain't getting on no plane!'…

the tino rangitiratanga

Can we at least come to an angreement as to the spelling? It's rang*a*tiratanga, right? I've seen both versions used throughout the thread and in newspaper articles all week.

I see this (and the noise around it being whipped up by Audrey Young) as being a symptom…

It's not like there's a lot of things that rhyme with "Zealand"

Well, I could offer my surname but that would be impertinent. But in introductions, "I'm Geoff Lealand from New Zealand" always has a satidsfying ring to it.

As for the disagreement among Maori, KiwiPolitico has a good post on what that's about.

It seems to be a bit wider than he suggests, frankly. Tau Henare has officially fallen into line (but clearly isn't happy, to judge by his comments earlier in the year), but he's [[http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/fur-flies-in-govt-over-maori-flag-3309738|not the…

Maybe we need a proper approach to deciding on what a Maori flag needs to be, and perhaps at the end it will be Tino Rangatiratanga, or maybe another design will emerge.

So, Te Puni Kokiri hasn't been running a "proper" approach? Sorry for sounding like a broken record here,…

Has anyone mentioned the strange Government decision to stop the 'It's not OK' campaign? Apparently, we are domestically peaceful now.

Apparently it's much worse than that. While they feel things have improved, the problem, they say, is disproportionately a Maori one, and therefore a 'new' campaign focused 'exclusively' on Maori,…

And No Right Turn is all, like, anyone who's not down with this is probably a racist. Sigh ..

Well, old and monocultural – unlike modern New Zealand. I see this (and the noise around it being whipped up by Audrey Young) as being a symptom of intergenerational cultural change.…

On the other hand there are alternate options for national anthems

Mungo MacCallum wrote a nice little essay about the furore Australia went through in 1975 when it adopted Advance Australia Fair

One of the problems from aspiring writers back in 1975 was that there are so few rhymes to…

On the other hand there are alternate options for national anthems:

That will always be the true anthem to me.

I believe our nation's van should be something more like this.

Or this.

So if things are looking really bad
you're thinking of givin' it away
Remember New Zealand's a cracker
and I reckon come what may
If things get appallingly bad
and we all get atrociously poor
If we stand in…

'guide her in the nations' van'

Always seemed like a thinly veiled sexual reference to me ... on the other hand:

From dissension, envy, hate,
And corruption guard our State,
Make our country good and great,

seems like just the right thing to have in a national anthem.

However I've…

I/S was talking about the concept of flying a flag which symbolises Maori identity. Anyone who clings to the notion that we only need one flag is at odds with our bi-cultural future.

Yeah, see, that goes down like a cup of cold sick with a lot of people. In…

'm sure we've talked about this before, but I've always been tickled by 'guide her in the nations' van'

Ooooh, the full version. I've only ever seen that in print, does it ever get sung as well?
I like to think of us bundling along in a Bongo...