Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Irony Deficient

Sam F

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 12:06:03 +1300

Was going to reply then wondered if Danyl had already said it better, and yes he has:

It’s nice to see that Shane Jones still takes a casual interest in New Zealand politics. Bit of a shame the only thing that motivates him is his passionate hatred of Labour’s largest…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 13 Oct 2012 11:01:34 +1300

I'm just going to post a link to this, with no further comment beyond #LOLSOB

Copyright changes proposed by a member of the Green Party could destroy jobs and is "piss-taking" business, says Labour's Shane Jones.

It is the latest swipe Jones has taken at the Greens after MP Gareth Hughes…

Geoff Lealand

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 09:38:23 +1300

Well, Mr Drummond, you made a significant step towards reinstating satire in the NZ public consciousness with your "Six Bad Art Plays"' which we attended last evening, in company with a full audience of rowdy Hamilton citizens. Bravo!
I did, however, fear for the kiwi on a skateboard,

WH

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 03:33:41 +1300

There's a tension between our generous myths of equality and the fact that we spend our lives competing with each other for wealth and status.

At their best, satire and parody are levelling forces, reminders of essential truths behind economic and social hierarchies. They can be directed towards politics, [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjJCdCXFslY|at…

andin

Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:33:05 +1300

and later to Arab leaders wanting to unite their people against surrounding groups.

More specifically Mo

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:01:41 +1300

It was a social control thing. Earlier forms of pantheistic belief had a wide range of gods and idols a person could worship. This hindered social control, as if someone objected to the assertions of their priests that an activity was wrong and evil, they could go to another more…

andin

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:16:13 +1300

Mohammad didn’t want himself drawn. I kind of respect that.

You make it sound as if he was a media shy prophet of 1500yrs ago.
Ever heard of idolatry and how it arose in the Middle east?
About the same time
Did no favours to the Bamiyan Buddha statues.

Russell Brown

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:34:32 +1300

And, for my blood, it took real balls to run this at the high tide of lunatic Diana idolatry:

The Late Princess Diana
An Apology

I remember when they published that. It was effing brilliant.

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:15:08 +1300

Unless you are Alan Jones of course…

Or Michael Richards.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:17:14 +1300

The Austocrats...
...it will largely stay in the room.
Unless you are Alan Jones of course...

Scott Chris

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:07:48 +1300

Political satire at its best:

Stephen Colbert

He and his writers on top form with this episode.

Joe Wylie

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:02:40 +1300

Fritzl jokes
Austrian Fritzl joke by the interesting Manfred Deix. Getting a bit old now, but naturally the Austriches were onto it first.

Angus Robertson

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:46:50 +1300

You can be thoroughly offensive (Fritzl jokes, Jimmy Savile jokes, etc) and it will largely stay in the room.

Or if you'd prefer a wider audience for your one liners.

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:07:05 +1300

we have some of the funniest stand ups around

The good thing about stand up is that it's intrinsically ephemeral and contained. You can be thoroughly offensive (Fritzl jokes, Jimmy Savile jokes, etc) and it will largely stay in the room. It doesn't get circulated around the internet for a…

Jackie Clark

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:04:03 +1300

Ah, but that was before NTNON! I enjoyed McPhail and Gadsby. Until I didn't. I do love NZ comedy, a lot. I think we have some of the funniest stand ups around.

Phil Lyth

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:09:34 +1300

The issue at the top of people’s minds tends to be copyright over source material

Well yes, and Gareth Hughes' Member's Bill would address that. (I leave it to the reader to decide if the problem is solved.)

I'd be interested to hear from satirists (yes, looking at Lyndon, Jackson,…

Phil Lyth

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:04:31 +1300

It may not get the audience of something on TV1, but if it’s good enough and funny enough people will find it.

I'd be inclined to say if it is good enough, people will tell people about it. Viral, innit.

Jeremy Eade

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:45:01 +1300

Anyway I’d rather have a robust press than satire. New century and all.

ScottY

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:41:31 +1300

I'd be pleasantly surprised if any genuinely good local satire turned up on the telly. Public broadcasting seems all but dead in this country, with the exception of Radio NZ, and most decisions seem to be ratings-driven. The most we can hope for are shows like 7 Days, which while…

nzlemming

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:40:25 +1300

Python?

Jackie Clark

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:38:40 +1300

I'm not a great fan of satire – I used to enjoy Not the Nine O Clock News but I can't think of any other satire recently that's floated my boat, to be honest.

Jeremy Eade

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:32:57 +1300

New Zealand is too small for satire. You'll upset too many people.That sounds defeatist, but it's too small a village.

Mohammad didn't want himself drawn. I kind of respect that.

mark taslov

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:36:03 +1300

begins plausibly and strings you along until that wonderful moment where it becomes too absurd to be borne.

Sounds like civilization.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:34:16 +1300

If these horrible efforts are any indication, if left unparodied in the mass media our elected reps will attempt to fill the irony vacuum themselves. While I'm currently mightily underwhelmed by Mayor Bob's attempt at a Borat knock-off, that may change if a further episode shows him and his dubious…

Sacha

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:48:04 +1300

Though they called her an Australian.

does live there

Joe Wylie

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:09:39 +1300

Maori TV’s dubbed & subtitled Mister Ed had more laughs than the original.

I think you're being a little mean on the original. Now, and when I grew up it seemed old, of course, but actually, it's pretty darn good.

No mention there of the alleged peanut butter driven lip-sync, or…

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:01:32 +1300

I suppose the NZ comedy scene is in good health when Cal Wilson is turning up on QI

On BBC Radio 4 Friday night quiz show as well. Though they called her an Australian.

As the Internet is based around communities of interest, satire may have a more natural home…

Andre Alessi

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:22:54 +1300

I think that’s quite right, which is why some satire inspires truly, bizarrely different reactions from its audience. Alan Moore’s Watchmen is arguably an example of this-it’s blackly hilarious if you believe Moore doesn’t want you to like and admire the characters (satirising the idea that dressing up in costume…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:21:27 +1300

strings you along until that wonderful moment where it becomes too absurd to be borne

But there is also the form where it appears absurdly unrealistic and then you discover it is real. The Daily show does that all the time.

Lilith __

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:10:18 +1300

I’d argue that a great deal of an audience’s enjoyment of satire is the realisation that they are in on the joke – and that for them to be in on it, other people must not be.

I'd say that satire is just material you can't take at face value.…

Joshua Drummond

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:09:11 +1300

You're a good man, Mr Brown. Cheers! (Skip to around 2:25 for the appropriate bit.)

Pete Sime

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:05:25 +1300

Bill Bailey made a really good point in his interview on Radio NZ last week that audiences enjoy doing some of the work to get a joke. He doesn't like to insult the intelligence of his audiences or belittle them. I think the networks in NZ might have such a…

Joshua Drummond

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:05:16 +1300

At the risk of analysing a joke, I'd argue that a great deal of an audience's enjoyment of satire is the realisation that they are in on the joke – and that for them to be in on it, other people must not be. I know that I get a…

Andre Alessi

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:57:19 +1300

It's interesting that we often talk about comedy "changing" in the sense that performers approach it in new ways, but of course it's the audience that does most of the changing, both over time and across geographical and cultural boundaries.

This is particularly relevant to satire, which is funny precisely…

Sacha

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:56:14 +1300

maybe I've got it wrong and they're all limbo experts

Bart Janssen

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:51:40 +1300

not setting the bar far from the ground

There's a bar under that pile of sh*t??????

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:48:47 +1300

if our laws protected satire and parody better

Feh... I'd note Private Eye is in its sixth unspeakably vicious decade of gnawing off the hand that sues it, despite the United Kingdom being the word-leader in libel tourism.

And, for my blood, it took real balls to run this at…

James Butler

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:44:30 +1300

not setting the bar far from the ground

Under-promise and over-deliver?

Sacha

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:39:11 +1300

Funnier than Hosking, or Henry, or even Sainsbury.

not setting the bar far from the ground

Jackson James Wood

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:36:50 +1300

Geoff Lealand

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:33:05 +1300

..and I will donate the first $100 (for funny hats or legal fees).

Russell Brown

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:26:44 +1300

To any TV people reading this, giz me and JJW a show. Please? We’ll be ever so funny. Funnier than Hosking, or Henry, or even Sainsbury. Come to think of it, his slot will soon be available, won’t it? We can have that!

I genuinely will raise it with some…

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:24:30 +1300

Maori TV’s dubbed & subtitled Mister Ed had more laughs than the original.

I think you're being a little mean on the original. Now, and when I grew up it seemed old, of course, but actually, it's pretty darn good.

e.g. http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/39006/mister-ed-the-complete-first-season/

Joshua Drummond

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:20:56 +1300

I write semi-occasional satire for (bless them, for it’s truly good of them to give me the gig) the Waikato Times, including such pieces as this one about Colin Craig and this other one about Colin Craig.

And so it was that I found out that there aren’t many laws…

Russell Brown

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:01:48 +1300

Cool! But followed up by Sacha’s ’Heehaw” (=donkey) is a comment that
is
not-
anyway, fuck it all- the comment may have been ironic. May have been satiric. It just lessened Sacha’s mana in my mind by about 500%-

It was just a light-hearted play on Mr Ed being a…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:40:33 +1300

The issue at the top of people’s minds tends to be copyright over source material (though possibly trademarks have led to more court cases).

The Hustler vs Falwell ruling offers a way forward. I can't recall there being any similar precedent being tested in NZ.

Lyndon Hood

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:20:44 +1300

Speaking of getting sued though, we should recall we live in a world where Colin Craig can get a right of reply to Steve Braunias implying his (Craig's) house was under seige by relentless homosexuals.

if our laws protected satire and parody better

The issue at the top of people's…

Lilith __

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:18:22 +1300

the best way to satirise the current state of NZ politics would be to produce a drama series about a competent government that engaged respectfully with its citizens.

Damian Christie

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:13:55 +1300

...which is to say, Jackson, maybe you should be getting some people who know what they're doing, shooting something, then trying to get that sit-down with the likes of nzherald or stuff online...

Morgan Nichol

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:13:50 +1300

That's incredible. So good. Ganesha seems a good sort to have at an orgy with all those extra arms (and such).

Damian Christie

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:12:16 +1300

As the Internet is based around communities of interest, satire may have a more natural home there.

I think this is the answer David. Having personally done a lot of talking to (a number of) networks in recent months about what they might looking for and what their priorities are,…

Ross Mason

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:03:11 +1300

That's right Damian. Like good Current Affairs.

Chris Waugh

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:02:22 +1300

if our laws protected satire and parody better

Please enlighten. After all, a brief sift through the archives of NZ on Screen (love that site, by the way) reveals plenty of satire and parody from times past, even of politicians whose reputation suggests they would not have taken kindly to…

Damian Christie

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:00:21 +1300

The prospect of being easily sued must affect what producers and broadcasters support.

Nup. Not even close to becoming a factor in their thinking. See above.

BenWilson

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:59:15 +1300

Satire's a tricky form. Danyl puts a quote from Juvenal as his inspiration, but the satires of Juvenal are the sexist, racist, homophobic diatribes of an angry old man. We didn't even study the one where he hacks into women at school, it's that bad, and would have kids wondering…

Damian Christie

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:59:13 +1300

As I said: we just need to sit down with some TV people… *cough*

Yeah, it's actually quite easy to get an intelligent satirical TV show off the ground, especially if you're not already a household name in the provinces. The TV networks are quite actively looking for new talent…

Sacha

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:42:25 +1300

We might see more local comedy poking fun at the behaviour of politicians rather than characteristics of whole groups of fellow citizens if our laws protected satire and parody better. The prospect of being easily sued must affect what producers and broadcasters support.

David Hood

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:11:19 +1300

Possibly both irony and satire are dependent on a trust in the audience to either know or be able to figure out that the writer/ performer relationship to the material different than being portrayed. As the Internet is based around communities of interest, satire may have a more natural home…

David Cormack

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:03:31 +1300

I think satire died after Chris Morris' Brass Eye. That was it. Finished. It had reached perfection. After that, the world became too absurd to properly satirise.

Sacha

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:57:07 +1300

I recently finished Arrested Development. It's beautiful, original and completely brilliant, and because it is such a big part of the best-comedy-ever? conversation they are releasing new episodes in 2013. You should watch it.

+1.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:54:08 +1300

Referring to Brownlee's past isn't to disparage real woodwork (technology, nowadays, I guess) teachers who teach in an inspired and understanding fashion.

It's a reference to a caricature of the teaching role, based on a reality that I remember from my childhood, but has (one hopes) become much rarer in…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:36:40 +1300

If you’re doing Gerry Brownlee fat jokes on a regular basis, you should contemplate what that says about about your own talent.

Quite. And people who think it’s hilarious to make cracks about Brownlee being a “former woodwork teacher”? Really think about where that’s coming from for a second; especially…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:28:32 +1300

And even then, it was kind of depressing how heavily even Agnew and Parry leaned on "Jenny's fat and Helen's butch" gags — which is not only intrinsically offensive and unfunny on multiple levels, but it's kind of sad coming from two really smart performers whose own work shows women…

Russell Brown

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:22:48 +1300

But you really need a douchebag jar (h/t New Girl) on set for the Gerry Brownlee fat jokes. Seriously. Just stop it.

If you're doing Gerry Brownlee fat jokes on a regular basis, you should contemplate what that says about about your own talent.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:18:28 +1300

And I’m not sure that’s such a bad thing – because the “hard stuff” is really tricky to pull off.

Even veteran satirists can miss the mark. The late 1990s edition of McPhail & Gadsby seemed to be propped up by the dynamic duo of Pinky Agnew and Lorae Parry as…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:09:03 +1300

I suppose the NZ comedy scene is in good health when Cal Wilson is turning up on QI

I’m afraid to watch. One of Fry’s *cough* less endearing traits is the way he patronizes women panelists. OTOH, it was grimly amusing watching one episode where Jo Brand visibly choked back…

WH

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:05:31 +1300

I think you have to distinguish observations about society as it is from cruelty that intentionally reinforces social hierarchy. Your definition would rule out everyone from Eddie Murphy to Frankie Boyle.

De gustibus.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:56:20 +1300

Come to that, a lot of people don't find funny funny. They see a programme like 'The Office' with those nasty, nasty characters and assume it's advocacy for that worldview.

No that wasn't my problem with The Office. It was that it was so close to my every day reality…

Pete Sime

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:52:57 +1300

I suppose the NZ comedy scene is in good health when Cal Wilson is turning up on QI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMB-f2CzZ0U

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:09:36 +1300

Although TV3 in particular has been able to build a successful development strategy around comedy in recent years, the hard stuff – satire, and particularly political satire – is basically absent from our screens these days.

And I’m not sure that’s such a bad thing – because the “hard stuff”…

Jackson James Wood

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:04:41 +1300

As I said: we just need to sit down with some TV people... *cough*

Hilary Stace

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:57:24 +1300

Sexism, racism, homophobia or ableism are rarely funny – and attempts at humour on such topics are usually offensive and cringemaking. Unless it is done very cleverly from an insider perspective. There was a (surprisingly) good example of musical comedy on NZ’s Got Talent with the Korean student who played…

Dean Papa

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:32:31 +1300

Boring news parody and funniest moment in comedy,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oESKBArw1CA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew0qiozLtpU

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:24:50 +1300

Come to that, a lot of people don’t find funny funny. They see a programme like ‘The Office’ with those nasty, nasty characters and assume it’s advocacy for that worldview.

I think you’re right, up to a point. OTOH, I don’t find Anger Management at all funny because another Charlie…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:12:12 +1300

Shallow Minister out of her depth...
I think sarcasm was what Hekia Pariah, er Parata, was attempting in her cringe-inducing appearance at the PPTA conference yesterday – she is about as good at that as she is at empathy and consultation.
It would be hard to satirise her performance as…

WH

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:00:49 +1300

Now I am watching season one of Breaking Bad and something called Winnebago Man.

Peter Corbish

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 07:59:03 +1300

Don't forget the "Down the List" new slot on National Radio on Sunday mornings..a..an acorn of a new show maybe???.....

DexterX

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 07:50:19 +1300

Sarcasm, being sarky is not necessarily vicious, it can be quite endearing as portrayed in the relationship between Rodney and Del Boy on "Only Fools and Horses".

The lack of irony stems from the incredulous political environment leaving the nation satirically exhausted such that the appetite for the “ironque” is…

Danielle

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 05:00:09 +1300

What is SARCASM always has its base in viciousness

Nope.

Islander

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 01:04:39 +1300

What may be an ironic saying (or sketch) in one culture is one matter.
(Very probably will not be understood in another.)
What may be – satiric -for some-( for me- I dont understand )(I just think they are misunderstanding matters/mis-saying words/whatever-)is what it matters to those who understand it-…

Islander

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 00:46:43 +1300

Cool! But followed up by Sacha's 'Heehaw" (=donkey) is a comment that
is
not-
anyway, fuck it all- the comment may have been ironic. May have been satiric. It just lessened Sacha's mana in my mind by about 500%-

Sacha

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 00:17:46 +1300

because they've grown up with their father talking absolute bollocks at them

greater dedication hath no man, etc

Sacha

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 00:16:01 +1300

she excitedly told a friend "He sounds like a Tainui man!"

heehaw

Islander

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 23:44:18 +1300

Not yet. And, probably not in the elder generations lifetimes

And, do we even want to?

There are senses of humour that do not travel – they’re not universal, they are not welcomed everywhere – why should they be supported except by those who understand and welcome them?

Islander

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 23:24:29 +1300

That’s interesting. Does it make things a bit difficult on parts of the internet that are quite culturally rooted in irony?
You bet!
I just cant understand it…probably because no wonderful person talked/wrote/asked me to read absolute bollocks and explain there was a penumbra of – something else- but alsomaybe…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 23:15:32 +1300

public service TV

Maori TV here, then.
Maori TV's dubbed & subtitled Mister Ed had more laughs than the original. When the talking horse phoned an unsuspecting woman pretending to be her secret admirer, she excitedly told a friend "He sounds like a Tainui man!"

Russell Brown

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 23:09:00 +1300

I am totally unable to recognise sarcasm/satire when it is here – let alone anywhere else, like tv…
I have a tin ear for it/them: a blind eye. They just dont interest/entertain me in the least.
And as for irony – unless it’s clearly spelt out – pftui!

That's interesting.…

Islander

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:57:47 +1300

You see, I take the hideous GG at his hideous written word-and respond to his words thusly-

Russell Clarke

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:46:34 +1300

I can't believe you didn't mention Garth George in a post about satire. He always had me rolling in the aisles. And on the pews.

Lilith __

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:35:44 +1300

Eating Media Lunch – was funny,so funny

At times it was very funny, but the constant trolling for audience reaction I found tiresome and distasteful. "What do you think of NZ pussy?", for crying out loud. Not that funny the first time, but over and over again?

Islander

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:33:11 +1300

Lilith __

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:14:31 +1300

On the subject of crossing the line, Liam Neeson with Ricky Gervais:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKTh7zBIcrM

andrew r

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:25:38 +1300

Eating Media Lunch – was funny,so funny. And so tightly written. Best by far in many many blue moons.

dcnbwz

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:21:09 +1300

Eating media lunch – anal mana

From the listener a while back.....http://www.listener.co.nz/entertainment/pique-viewing/

Best Hoax: the leggy beauty on the awful Something About Miriam turned out to be a bloke and everyone involved deserved every thing they got. Incredibly, some people actually believed that Eating Media Lunch killed Shrek and that…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:02:39 +1300

For instance, this is a horrible piece of disgusting, offensive humour;
http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/

it is pretty funny too. But could so easily just be offensive.

It's funny because it crosses the line – not once, but twice.

And my Swiftian take on child poverty had just the intended effect – smirking…

Simon Bennett

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:44:44 +1300

'Certainly heard that from comedians.'

So have I, and experienced it first hand.

Sacha

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:38:55 +1300

We pretty much have a pitch ready to go.

Fantastic.

Sacha

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:38:04 +1300

I firmly believe that this issue of gatekeepers (whether producers or network execs), who have no actual expertise in the area, yet become arbiters as to what is or isn't funny, is one of the blights that has afflicted NZ TV comedy across the decades.

Certainly heard that from comedians.

Sacha

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:37:23 +1300

insisting the 'funny' level be turned up to 11 – thereby rendering said programme unfunny and blatant

Melody Rules, etc

Sacha

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:36:10 +1300

public service TV

Maori TV here, then.

Samuel Scott

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:27:48 +1300

For instance, this is a horrible piece of disgusting, offensive humour;
http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/

it is pretty funny too. But could so easily just be offensive.

Samuel Scott

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:24:37 +1300

I think some of the best satire draws from utterly indefensible content (The Onion is full of horrible, hilarious things) and for a lot of writers its just too fine a line. You can't be a deadpan bigot as your audience will a) think you're a bigot and hate you…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:18:50 +1300

By its very nature, commercial TV is risk-averse and satire by its very nature is risky.
Which is why Clarke & Dawe survive on public service TV.

Phil Lyth

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:17:38 +1300

Ah, yes. I meant to include that in the post, so thanks.

Good to know that some real people, as opposed to a few politics anoraks like me, take an interest in the Proposed Bills page listing members bills in the ballot.

Simon Bennett

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 20:09:40 +1300

I suspect that satire, with its savagery and tendency to cause offence, tends to be worrying to TV networks with a purely commercial imperative.

By its very nature, commercial TV is risk-averse and satire by its very nature is risky. If any satire were to be programmed, I can see…

Jackson James Wood

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:31:09 +1300

We think so. We pretty much have a pitch ready to go.

andin

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:02:14 +1300

the hard stuff – satire, and particularly political satire – is basically absent
Wonder why? Not on TVNZ ?
Hmmmm, a quandary for sure

BenWilson

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:57:25 +1300

I’d like to offer MASH, Cheers and Seinfeld as popular, well-regarded counter-examples to this.

Too right, that chick Klinger was bloody ugly.

Myles Thomas

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:55:57 +1300

What are you saying? We have two of the best satire shows in the country playing on TV every night at 6 (also Shortland Street). Equally several great satirical print publications are printed each day around the country. And there is plenty more everywhere you care to look. The problem for all of them is…

David Ritchie

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:43:39 +1300

a group of usually attractive people behaving in an anodyne way with a hysterical laugh track

I'd like to offer MASH, Cheers and Seinfeld as popular, well-regarded counter-examples to this.

Geoff Lealand

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:42:04 +1300

What a great topic. The problem is that we have such a surfeit of self-satirising around--from Key's and Bank's selective amnesia, to Dotcom's antics.

But don't forget you have Jose. With a bit more exposure and taller heels, he could become our local Charlie Brooker. And then there is Ian…

Russell Brown

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:32:17 +1300

Deliberate. David H always insists that his work is humour, not satire. But truth be known, he has written satire here. So let's dragoon him in.

Hilary Stace

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:25:07 +1300

We need some successors to Lorae Parry's and Pinky Agnew's Helen and Jenny too. Imagine what you could do with some of those National Party women.

Andre Alessi

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:11:56 +1300

Fairburn used to live in Devonport. This proves something, I'm not sure what, but it definitely proves something.

Pete Sime

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:55:51 +1300

A regular dose of satire doesn’t even have to be that expensive. John Clarke and Alan Dawe do a weekly mock interview on the ABC against a black background.It's simple, but good.

Joe Wylie

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:46:17 +1300

When the mood seizes them, Danyl McLachlan, Scott Yorke and Lyndon Hood all write political satire as good as anything in the New Zealand tradition.
No mention of David Haywood.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:45:39 +1300

A lot of people don't find satire funny.

Come to that, a lot of people don't find funny funny. They see a programme like 'The Office' with those nasty, nasty characters and assume it's advocacy for that worldview.

I think this comes from the US, where they have the concept…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:35:38 +1300

I’d have to say that satire in NZ has probably been crowd/cloud-sourced.

Maybe there needs to be something that shocks and disgusts on the scale of the Sex Pistols’ 1976 “Filth And The Fury” interview to put things back on the map. In my case for example, my salute to…

Anonymous Author

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:34:00 +1300

Terifferric post title.

Russell Brown

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:18:57 +1300

Josh and I would love to do a satire show. Can somebody make this happen?

Lordy, that *would* be good.

Russell Brown

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:18:28 +1300

To observe that Green MP Gareth Hughes put a Members Bill into the last ballot to allow use of copyright work for parody and satire.

Ah, yes. I meant to include that in the post, so thanks.

Phil Lyth

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:58:25 +1300

To observe that Green MP Gareth Hughes put a Members Bill into the last ballot to allow use of copyright work for parody and satire.

(With the new system for the ballot, bills go online shortly after they are entered into the ballot.)

Jackson James Wood

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:52:31 +1300

Josh and I would love to do a satire show. Can somebody make this happen?

Public Address

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:52:31 +1300

Discussion from blog post.