Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Interview: Glenn Greenwald

Richard Glassbrook

Mon, 24 Nov 2014 05:20:36 +1300

Surveillance agencies are the eyes for the banker families and oil families/owners.

nzlemming

Mon, 22 Sept 2014 19:20:37 +1200

Plenty of people own domains which are either not in use or redirect elsewhere. It’s just that I expected Daniel to have a killer web site. Or maybe the GCSB have been messing with something? ;-)

Daniel's not really a "web" guy. He's probably only running a (very secure) mailserver…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 22 Sept 2014 18:34:17 +1200

someone to watch over me...
A modicum of personal collateral damage aside,
mass surveillance works very well.
one step, two step, three step...
Australians have been warned that their freedoms might have to be restricted for the sake of national security, as the government prepares to introduce counter-terrorism laws to…

Alfie

Mon, 22 Sept 2014 18:33:29 +1200

Nothing screwy in the DNS (either 'whois' or 'MX'). What do you mean by 'domain seems to be redirecting'?
I was referring to tactics dot net dot nz – the domain Daniel used on his letter. Yesterday it redirected me to a Facebook page, today it's producing "Server not found".…

rabold

Mon, 22 Sept 2014 15:31:32 +1200

A modicum of personal collateral damage aside, mass surveillance works very well. That's why a lot of money is spent on it. Do not confuse its efficiency with its social (un)desirability.

rabold

Mon, 22 Sept 2014 15:20:55 +1200

Nothing screwy in the DNS (either 'whois' or 'MX'). What do you mean by 'domain seems to be redirecting'?

Graham Dunster

Fri, 19 Sept 2014 11:33:49 +1200

Thanks for the sane overview, James.

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 22:15:33 +1200

cool

Rob Stowell

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 22:15:04 +1200

Thanks Alfie. And thanks David- very well said.

Grant McDougall

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 21:46:14 +1200

I'm listening to WFMU in New Jersey and commented on the playlist. I noted that another comment was from an "X Key" so I asked if it was after "X Key Score." He said no, but was aware of "The Moment Of Truth" event and the impact / fall-out from…

Amanda Wreckonwith

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 19:53:10 +1200

Jim Mora is the natural replacement for Maggie Barry and Sean Plunket. Anyone who has spent time around him will be aware of his political aspirations. It is obvious that he is being groomed by his right wing friends for future stardom. His 'most trusted' status is a great asset.…

Alfie

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 17:54:48 +1200

David S was on 6.22 mins into the 2 nd segment of yesterday’s Panel. It’s still up there, great stuff! Sorry can't post link

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20149996

;-)

CJM

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 17:44:26 +1200

David S was on 6.22 mins into the 2 nd segment of yesterday’s Panel. It’s still up there, great stuff! Sorry can't post link

Alfie

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 17:33:50 +1200

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20150151

Go to 12:52

izogi

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 17:14:56 +1200

I tried to find this in the mp3s- any idea when it happened? Or have they just possibly cut it out?!

It was leading up to when I posted my comment yesterday, which PA tells me was 4.48pm Wednesday 17th Sep. (Franks was on about 4.48’ish this evening, Thursday 18th…

Rob Stowell

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 17:09:47 +1200

David Slack’s righteous indignation about Farrar, Williams and Franks appearing on The Panel was quite breathtaking.
I tried to find this in the mp3s- any idea when it happened? Or have they just possibly cut it out?!

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 16:58:23 +1200

I didn't listen to the program this afternoon, but was Franks scheduled to be on today's Panel anyway?

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 16:56:28 +1200

Someone's taking RNZ National a mite too literally.

Tom Semmens

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 16:53:13 +1200

Franks is being given a right-of-reply to David Slack on The Panel in a moment (currently 4.48pm).

Mind boggling. Mora is a joke.

izogi

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 16:48:21 +1200

David Slack’s righteous indignation about Farrar, Williams and Franks appearing on The Panel was quite breathtaking.

Franks is being given a right-of-reply to David Slack on The Panel in a moment (currently 4.48pm).

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 16:04:19 +1200

And no you don’t get to see the evidence against you, because you’d just lie about it. Terrorist
Yeah, just lie about it, that seems to be enough to keep JK clean.
Unfortunately we are not in a position to say "Pack your cardboard box and security will see you…

James George

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 14:51:22 +1200

I dunno why Kiwis imagine that our security services pay the least regard to the law. It has been shown time and time again that they do not. Over the course of the time I've lived in Aotearoa there have been numerous instances of both SIS and GCSB acting outside…

tussock

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 11:58:26 +1200

So, is all this stuff basically an admission that John Key signed off on having Daryl Jones murdered because ... metadata?

You know.
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=cia%20kill%20metadata

And we give them all our metadata, so when some dude, who no one local thought was at all radical despite the beatup in the press,…

Josh Petyt

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 11:43:06 +1200

Yes. The thought that they may be turning a blind eye to mass surveillance of New Zealand residents (or anyone for that matter), never mind being complicit in the action, is completely unacceptable. I would go further and state that our spies should be actively working against anyone that is…

Tom Semmens

Thu, 18 Sept 2014 08:09:16 +1200

Haven’t seen any media comment lately about appointment of donkey’s childhood mate as spook chief.

David Farrar has a post up where he lists all the important and authoritative people who are saying New Zealanders are not spied on. But the problem is that Snowden and Greenwald have exposed the…

dave stewart

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 21:45:33 +1200

Haven't seen any media comment lately about appointment of donkey's childhood mate as spook chief. Surely that was dodgy enough to revisit that subject again in the current context?

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 21:16:59 +1200

Words...
Yes, he was magnificent. Mora just sounded embarrassed and eager to change the subject.
aah! all this explains one mystery, I tuned in briefly at some point after this, and wondered at the palpable tension of the recently adrenalised vocal cords and manner of those two...
Good show Mr…

Geoff Lealand

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 20:57:05 +1200

Yes, he was magnificent. Mora just sounded embarrassed and eager to change the subject.

insider

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 20:22:47 +1200

How on earth can key or the gcsb stop the NSA accessing hotmail, gmail and Facebook traffic originated by nzders? This is the organisation that tapped the German PMs calls. There's no special label on my hotmail that allows me to be NSA free when using a us based service,…

Jack Harrison

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 20:07:59 +1200

Answer to the law. We have to.

Ross Mason

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 20:05:44 +1200

"(2)Nothing in subsection (1) shall limit the disclosure to the Minister of information concerning the activities of an intelligence and security agency."

John is probably saying......"If only there was a capital "I" on information and......."

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 18:44:14 +1200

And speaking of asking the next questions: this letter to the Prime Minister from security specialist Daniel Ayers.

Essential reading. This dwarfs anything yet presented by the NZMSM.

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 18:08:43 +1200

“To the best of my knowledge, I hope New Zealanders will accept my word on it. Look Matthew at the end of the day what we’ve got here is Kim Dotcom and his foreign political friends coming into town and telling Kiwis what they ought to think four days out…

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 18:02:04 +1200

The law is a lame duck on this, as Idiot Savant mentioned earlier:

Note that the PM can limit IGIS’s access to information

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1996/0047/latest/DLM392545.html?search=ta_act_I_ac%40ainf%40anif_an%40bn%40rn_200_a&p=1

So if the GCSB or their Minister don’t want the watchdog to bark, they can blind it.

matthew

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 18:01:06 +1200

Mr Prime Minister are you abiding by the current law or the law you will be writing once it is demonstrated that your current activities are in fact not within the law.

Jack Harrison

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 17:47:35 +1200

Key needs to hammered with the law. Law and order.

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 17:34:30 +1200

It’s a worthy question, but as Not the Messiah said:

His history here wouldn’t lead you to trust him one little bit.

Anyone convinced of the authenticity of Snowden’s XKeystroke evidence knows what’s up. It’d be easier for the population to trash Wiahope than get polished John to wittingly incriminate…

matthew

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 17:21:56 +1200

Whether or not gcsb staffers personally use xKeystroke or not seems irrelevant if they are assisting foreign intelligence services to do so, either actively or passively (ie by not trying to stop activity they know to be occuring). Seems like their entire reason for existing is to prevent exactly that.…

Hebe

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 17:16:51 +1200

David Slack’s righteous indignation about Farrar, Williams and Franks appearing on The Panel was quite breathtaking. Amazing shit and I would wager he will not be invited back for such clarity and unashamed critique.

This. David Slack now on the Dirty Politics Roll of Honour.

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 17:07:30 +1200

We all know John is more than economical with the truth or maybe he is just a liar. You pick.

Or sophistry in plain site , listening back to that, the Stuff.co.nz transcription.is fudgy.

The GCSB [Government Communications Security Bureau] does not have access to any information through XKeyscore unless,…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 17:01:33 +1200

An then years later it turned out that LBJ had secretly threatened to cut off all our trade ties if we didn’t go and our (National) government acceded without a peep

This is really interesting: can you provide a reference?

Oh that's weird I can't (at least not with a…

CJM

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 16:49:55 +1200

*Izogi, just finished posting.

izogi

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 16:48:23 +1200

Tim Watkins actually allowed to discuss, with some authority, the real issues of trust, responsibility and ethical implications of the Snowden documents

Not just that, either.

On the Dirty Politics theme, David Slack has just been expressing a lengthy amount of frustration at the platform which The Panel has been…

Marcus Turner

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 16:47:48 +1200

Remember when most of the country did not want NZ troops in Vietnam. They went anyway

An then years later it turned out that LBJ had secretly threatened to cut off all our trade ties if we didn’t go and our (National) government acceded without a peep

This is really…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 16:37:32 +1200

Remember when most of the country ( and Helen Clark ) did not want NZ troops in any capacity in Afghanistan. They went anyway.

Remember when most of the country did not want NZ troops in Vietnam. They went anyway

An then years later it turned out that LBJ had…

CJM

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 16:28:16 +1200

Wow, Tim Watkins and David Slack actually allowed to discuss, with some authority, the real issues of trust, responsibility and ethical implications of the Snowden documents on todays ’The Panel’. Terrific breakdown of Keys statements from sunday to present, from outright denial to admission.
Excellent stuff!!
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 16:21:27 +1200

All that matters is that the GCSB is complying with the law.

All that matters is that there is mass surveillance, any old fool can break the law as we’ve already seen with the Kim Dot Com case. John Key knew nothing of that incursion.

Snowden’s clear:

I routinely came across…

izogi

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 16:08:10 +1200

In line with this I've just heard a quote from the Prime Minister on the 4pm Radio NZ News, saying (paraphrased) that it doesn't matter if the NSA is spying on New Zealanders and he can't control that anyway. All that matters is that the GCSB is complying with the…

Not The Messiah

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:33:44 +1200

We all know John is more than economical with the truth or maybe he is just a liar. You pick. His history here wouldn't lead you to trust him one little bit.
Add into all this that he will sign off TPPA as soon as he finds a pen. Well....

Tinakori

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:29:44 +1200

"Agendas seem more and more apparent with possible exception on TV anyway of John Campbell."

Even John Campbell would dispute that assertion. In fact I suspect he would be insulted by it.

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:29:34 +1200

Flipping those negatives:

“What I can say is the GCSB [Government Communications Security Bureau] *have* access to any information through XKeyscore or any other database, *if* they basically comply with the New Zealand law, and the New Zealand law *doesn’t* forbid that – *if* there is a warrant to do…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:18:59 +1200

Key is saying any data contributed by the GCSB would have been obtained by a warrant.

That's an interesting claim, given that the law says that the GCSB cannot apply for a warrant targeting a New Zealander for intelligence purposes.

I think someone needs to ask him if he's signed any…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:14:50 +1200

The latest from Key:

Prime Minister John Key cannot rule out the US National Security Agency (NSA) is undertaking mass surveillance of Kiwis' data, but has rejected claims New Zealand's own spies would have access to any such information.

"What I can say is the GCSB [Government Communications Security Bureau]…

nzlemming

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:06:27 +1200

Mike Masnick at Techdirt has a take I hadn't considered:

So, basically all that Key has revealed is that GCSB supported an overly broad cyberattack plan that would let the GCSB take it upon itself to deal with cyberattacks — a plan so insane that even the US has rejected…

Ana Simkiss

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:05:26 +1200

Key is saying any data contributed by the GCSB would have been obtained by a warrant.

Information about New Zealanders supplied by the GCSB to the Five Eyes intelligence sharing network was limited to that gathered under a warrant.

"You could not gather information about New Zealanders without a warrant,"…

Russell Brown

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:03:14 +1200

It's worthwhile recalling that a great deal of relevant reporting has been done in the past, and not just by Glenn Greenwald.

David Fisher reported this from DC-based author Tim Shorrock last year:

A high-tech United States surveillance tool which sweeps up all communications without a warrant was sent to New…

nzlemming

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 15:00:11 +1200

The link is the headline.

He was talking about the Vance piece phplad mentioned.

Russell Brown

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:58:59 +1200

I couldn’t find this on the Herald website. Can you provide a link?

The link is the headline.

nzlemming

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:57:30 +1200

David Slack’s cycle of diminishing Prime Ministerial denials appears to be in action.

So the PM's an official Slacker, eh? Whouldathunkit?

nzlemming

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:56:33 +1200

Andrea Vanve did something in the herald this morning which has been heavily attacked by a huge swath of aggressive comments. scary.

I think you mean this? (Vance is a Fairfax reporter, not Herald)

Yeah, really ugly in the comments section.

RBentley

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:54:42 +1200

I couldn't find this on the Herald website. Can you provide a link?

BenWilson

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:50:46 +1200

John Key concedes Edward Snowden ‘may well be right’

The time honored second part of that phrase is "But I couldn't possibly comment".

Russell Brown

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:19:58 +1200

David Slack's cycle of diminishing Prime Ministerial denials appears to be in action.

John Key concedes Edward Snowden 'may well be right'

Prime Minister John Key acknowledged today that NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden's claim that New Zealanders' data is accessible through the controversial XKeyscore system "may well be right".

However, he…

Not The Messiah

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:16:10 +1200

Remember when most of the country ( and Helen Clark ) did not want NZ troops in any capacity in Afghanistan. They went anyway.

Not The Messiah

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:13:48 +1200

Good point. However if only one or a few try to put that against a massed , well lawyered and concerted effort in court most often you don't stand a chance.
Have you heard of " Honest and Reasonable Belief " – the ultimate get out of jail free card.…

James Littlewood*

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:04:57 +1200

Oookay. Sooo, that’s a yes, they can see my banking. Fucking great (not that it’s very interesting, I can assure you).

Meanwhile, did anyone else read Paul Buchanan on NBR yesterday. Someone asked him what would happen if NZ withdrew from 5 eyes, and if there’d be any security risk.…

Not The Messiah

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 14:02:40 +1200

He will only say what he is allowed to say. He can not say anything against his ex employers. Not worth the time and you are better off putting some good blues on the stereo, turning it up- then you get real.

Bart Janssen

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 13:55:24 +1200

evidence. There won’t be any

For some reason people seem to keep forgetting that in most courts eye witness accounts are considered evidence.

Thus Snowden's account IS evidence.

People may question it and challenge it, but dismissing it as non-existent is not reasonable.

Idiot Savant

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 13:51:52 +1200

Sir Bruce Ferguson was fairly clear on Radio NZ that something is only legally "interception" if it's targeted. Therefore "indiscriminate interception" is technically an oxymoron in GCSB doublespeak.

He needs to read the law.

Legally its "intercepted" if it is acquired or recorded, or if its "substance, meaning, or sense" is.…

Not The Messiah

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 13:32:47 +1200

Indeed but I worry about who is listening. Nobody much is taking this blindingly obvious fact into account and most of the media will not consider this in their analysis they put their efforts into complicating things ( the latest crap in the Herald a case in point ) to…

Peter Green

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 13:27:08 +1200

Sir Bruce Ferguson was fairly clear on Radio NZ that something is only legally "interception" if it's targeted. Therefore "indiscriminate interception" is technically an oxymoron in GCSB doublespeak.

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 13:19:37 +1200

meat data...
Is there, in fact, anything at all which is beyond the eyes of others?
Not if those others are humans,
and are involved in the process
of moving, storing or accessing data.
Curiosity, Corruptability and Chance
can all play a part...

(NB not to besmirch all data techs,…

politikiwi

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 12:55:44 +1200

The *content* of the communication is encrypted, but the source and destination are not. So the metadata of what servers you've been talking to is still available, just not the content of the conversation itself.

On the subject of HTTPS, I notice the sign-up page for PublicAddress is not secured,…

Dismal Soyanz

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 12:54:40 +1200

They are good at hiding their tracks. They have to be.

As was pointed out Monday night, there is a reason why these operations are termed covert.

Not The Messiah

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 12:47:01 +1200

I have not heard the probable fact that Sir Bruce F will have signed a confidentiality agreement, Surely he must have – it fairly common these days in business.
I also feel that most radio and TV Media keep harping on about evidence. There won't be any. NSA ( or…

Josh Petyt

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 12:30:13 +1200

The other worrying thing is that Snowden(?) has shown that they are stockpiling insecurities to use as backdoors. What that means is that instead of reporting insecurities to the developers of telecoms software and equipment they keep mum in case they want to use it. This of course endangers everyone's…

Josh Petyt

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 12:27:04 +1200

I'm not a security expert but I believe if you use 128 bit encryption (HTTPS) and the signed certificate has not been compromised* then your communications are relatively secure. 128 bit encryption can be brute force attacked but no one has the resources to do that on a mass scale…

Richard Aston

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 12:21:31 +1200

Govt are specifically saying GCSB doesn't mass surveil. But what about NSA? Or another organisation using GCSB facilities? Words can be twisted so many ways, we could be paranoid, they could be lying.

Indeed and the meaning of the phrase Mass Surveillance can be stretched in different ways.
"We don't…

Jake Starrow

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 11:55:16 +1200

A revealing interview. Well done. You da man mr boss man

James Littlewood*

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 11:51:26 +1200

Great interview thanks Russell.

Hey, you know that thing Snowden said about how easy it is for NSA analysts to basically see anything they want, and he rattled off a list of like email, Facebook, etc. All things which we go through some kind of charade of security protocols, etc.…

izogi

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 11:22:40 +1200

The Inspector-General is chosen by the Prime Minister, after consultation with the Leader of the Opposition

The wikipedia page isn’t quite accurate, I don’t think. S5 of the Act says it’s on recommendation “of the Prime Minister following consultation with the Intelligence and Security Committee”, which includes the PM, the Leader of…

Myles Thomas

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 11:22:26 +1200

The solution is either we trust them blindly or they open up about everything. But secret services…

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 11:09:58 +1200

That was a gem Russell. who knows, one day New Zealand may even be able to offer Snowden asylum. WRT to context above and pending confirmation from anyone with more familiarity:

The Inspector-General is chosen by the Prime Minister, after consultation with the Leader of the Opposition

Thanks for this…

phplad

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 11:06:52 +1200

fantastic interview. well done. Andrea Vanve did something in the herald this morning which has been heavily attacked by a huge swath of aggressive comments. scary.

Idiot Savant

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 11:03:52 +1200

Note that the PM can limit IGIS's access to information

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1996/0047/latest/DLM392545.html?search=ta_act_I_ac%40ainf%40anif_an%40bn%40rn_200_a&p=1

So if the GCSB or their Minister don't want the watchdog to bark, they can blind it.

Russell Brown

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:55:29 +1200

This just in:

IGIS: No Indiscriminate Interception of NZers’ Data Found

Wednesday, 17 September 2014, 9:22 am
Press Release: Inspector General of Intelligence and Security
The following is attributable to Cheryl Gwyn, Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security:

“As part of my role as Inspector-General, I review whether the GCSB complies…

CJM

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:53:41 +1200

But the ‘Speargun’ slides shown at the Town Hall had already been released on the monday afternoon, online at many sources? What, 90 seconds to print off and put in the file with the ‘Cortex’ docs?
You may well be right though, just pure incompetence. Why would we expect any…

Alfie

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:49:30 +1200

And speaking of asking the next questions: this letter to the Prime Minister from security specialist Daniel Ayers.
Here's something slightly screwy. The email address quoted by Ayres in his letter to the PM is tactics dot net dot nz. At the moment that domain seems to be redirecting to…

Tim Michie

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:39:51 +1200

I think the former. I think she herself would admit technology interviews aren't her strongest submit and was working with the documents the PM had released. As was his intention.

CJM

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:24:36 +1200

What did you make of the documents that John Key released yesterday to pre-empt your report? Was he deliberately confusing Cortex with Speargun?

Yes. This is clearly the strategy of the Prime Minister at this point, which is to take what is always a complicated issue – electronic surveillance –…

chopstik

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:21:56 +1200

Great interview Russell, seriously refreshing to read your work.

Idiot Savant

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:20:19 +1200

We're definitely working on reporting about the money that changes hands between GCSB and NSA. I think the reporting will reveal that it goes both ways. The GCSB purchases rather expensive equipment and other capabilities from the NSA and the NSA also funds various activities here in New Zealand.

I…

Russell Brown

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:10:14 +1200

And speaking of asking the next questions: this letter to the Prime Minister from security specialist Daniel Ayers.

Public Address

Wed, 17 Sept 2014 10:10:14 +1200

Discussion from blog post.