Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Illegal Highs

debunk

Thu, 08 May 2014 15:20:00 +1200

And what is their response, Steven?

BenWilson

Wed, 07 May 2014 14:36:47 +1200

What If you had to get a doctors certificate to but alcohol, because you need it to go with your dinner?

I'd leave the country.

debunk

Wed, 07 May 2014 13:30:12 +1200

"have decriminalized methadone, for medical use" and already killed a patient in Whanganui hospital on top of polypharmacy for "pain" (earlier post).

Companies will pay subjects for human trials..who will get paid for participation; sign waivers for risk; get free "highs" as well as free board and lodging and medical…

Stephen R

Wed, 07 May 2014 08:45:07 +1200

Un-fucking-believable.

Yeah, nah. The nice man on Nat-radio the other day said that it wouldn't be possible to rate the drugs for safety without animal testing, so this is basically a way of banning them without having to ban them. I'm pretty sure that the politicians are smart enough to…

BenWilson

Tue, 06 May 2014 19:27:58 +1200

Un-fucking-believable.

Would that it were so. Mind you, risky and low-risk are the same, if harm is the only thing you can take into account. They're both negatives on the ledger. Treating them the same is only making the impossibility of balancing such books even clearer. No matter how many…

Russell Brown

Tue, 06 May 2014 17:44:43 +1200

The text of the Psychoactive Substances Amendment Bill is online and being debated now.

It includes this:

Advisory committee not to have regard to results of trials involving animals
“(1)In performing the function set out in section 11(2)(a), the advisory committee must not have regard to the results of a…

Jos

Tue, 06 May 2014 17:41:44 +1200

Politicians would be good!

Ross Mason

Tue, 06 May 2014 16:28:33 +1200

I s'pose now they cant't use wabbits,wats and weasels to test the goodies on. I s'pose they will now want to use lawyers........

Shulgin

Tue, 06 May 2014 00:34:10 +1200

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGdGFtwCNBE

Shulgin

Tue, 06 May 2014 00:05:56 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y855JbBHS8

Arcade Fire Live

Shulgin

Mon, 05 May 2014 21:30:38 +1200

cosmetics.....for gods sake....please save the wabbitts...

and end the testing....

....

Shulgin

Mon, 05 May 2014 20:45:41 +1200

all going down at the end of the post..... responses

...old news

brite eyes....

...rodents are here....

Shulgin

Mon, 05 May 2014 20:13:09 +1200

WTF....outbreak...surface features.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYW-ZrOsZIE

Ricky Gervais saves animals from cosmetics testing

PS. But actually,
humans are animals.... even in Naenae....
peter dunne...
....so you were quite happy with werld leading legislation...
.....but no testing in/on animals with floppy ears...
mmm okay....so.....
.....kinda like......
are you an animal.....
peter dunne...(?)...
and would…

Shulgin

Fri, 02 May 2014 23:00:36 +1200

said it b4 health department, no idea, lack of resources....

....mmm...lying in the soft lemon grass, near my holiday home, watching a white rhino covered in blueberry crush velvet...hey maurice i yelled...."is this the apocalypse outbreak?"

imagine such a beautiful political landscape.......

(ps i do like the advice for retailers…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 02 May 2014 15:34:54 +1200

Turns out this was in the pipeline all along …
I see what you did there…

That document you linked to there is the press release? dated 1 May?
Did yo mean This One? dated 27 January.
They have known for 3 months and done nothing about…

Russell Brown

Fri, 02 May 2014 12:42:52 +1200

Turns out this was in the pipeline all along ...

The Psychoactive Substances Regulatory Authority has withdrawn and recalled six products on the basis of adverse effect reporting.

This casts an interesting light on Peter Dunne's claim that available reports could not be linked to any particular products.

Ben Austin

Thu, 01 May 2014 20:18:30 +1200

So this story popped up this morning in the national news. Apparently a group of legal high retailers have started to organise and lobby in favour of a system like the new regime discussed in this thread.

Steve Barnes

Thu, 01 May 2014 18:08:06 +1200

As for Indica ...
...There, fixed that for you!
that is sativactry.
:-D

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 01 May 2014 17:32:42 +1200

As for Indicaoh ok then…..:-)

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 01 May 2014 17:23:49 +1200

As for Indica
The joint campaign: Should we not legalize recreational use of Cannabis?
There, fixed that for you!
No, don't thank me,
really, it was nothing...

;- )

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 01 May 2014 17:17:57 +1200

Peaches Geldoff od's. Tox report.
Now here is a drug (Heroin) that really has no way of determining strength, unless you chase the Dragon which is the natural process. Once it's in powder form ,and once people shoot it up, an overdose can occur within a minute and that is all…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 01 May 2014 12:02:47 +1200

Legality of Cannabis by Country
Interesting read and graphic. Apparently legal in North Korea but you never know what really goes on in North Korea.
Uruguay seems to have gone the most sensible way, legalise and tax.
And who would have thought those up tight Swiss would allow…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 01 May 2014 10:06:41 +1200

I put a post on the Heralds site the other day and, remarkably, got a sane and interesting response in respect of the Cultural shift toward illicit drugs and the Puffing Dolphins…
Barnzy
“""legalise the safe ones. Mushrooms, mescaline and peyote, all have been used for thousands of years and…

Virginia Brooks

Thu, 01 May 2014 01:43:23 +1200

Both great clips Shulgin, thanks.

re: 'you can ban drugs but you cant ban chemistry'... Mike Power describes the cultural shift accompanying the synthetics industry well.
Ok, he is from the UK and does not live in NZ, but can we vote him in at the next election?! What he…

Virginia Brooks

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 23:07:22 +1200

Re Rudmans article – he is spot on. But humans are not the only mammals seeking seeking highs.

Apparently juvenile dolphins congregate in circles and pass puffer fish between themselves to get high. Bonus: this article features the excellent fake turtle cam which helped catch the incriminating footage (hilarious):

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/dolphins-deliberately-get-high-on-puffer-fish-nerve-toxins-by-carefully-chewing-and-passing-them-around-9030126.html

Shulgin

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 19:13:13 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJBCSUIpjcw&list=PLlOOEKXrTWeYQlKoVsRZs4jD5SH4nhNMD

"You can ban drugs, but you can't ban chemistry"

hope that link is acceptable...longer than a sound byte..and even Beatles in it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TookjqAqF4&list=PLlOOEKXrTWeYQlKoVsRZs4jD5SH4nhNMD

Drugs: regulation & harm. Professor David Nutt

...he makes so much sense...i guess that is why he was sacked and marginalized..

take care out there...in the silk…

Russell Brown

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 18:54:02 +1200

Wowzers. Latest batch of pill tests from the Erowid-manage EcstasyData.org:

ONE of the EIGHT pills they tested had actual MDMA in it. And they couldn't even identify some of the shit.

Steve Barnes

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 18:06:19 +1200

I think the new name for Dunne should be “Silver Hammer”.
The suggestion that John Key has lost his moral compass with his suggestion that "Other Jurisdictshuns, or Rats, are better places to test this shit rather than here, with us bunnies.
I guess that must have some baring on…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 15:25:15 +1200

I like this Brian Rudman article. The man makes sense.

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 09:05:52 +1200

seems to be bad governance, intentional criminalisation of a large portion of the population and worse.

Soo, no change there then. Thanks Nactional, UFked up.

Russell Brown

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:50:27 +1200

sure russell no problem…I’ll go away.

You don't have to go away, just ease up a bit.

Andre

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 00:07:23 +1200

I think the government is creating a void that will obviously be filled by something and to do so blindly in a knee jerk fashion seems to be bad governance, intentional criminalisation of a large portion of the population and worse.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:41:24 +1200

From 1916, the cover of the door-stop sized Library of Health says it all, really...

Shulgin

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:28:39 +1200

sure russell no problem...I'll go away.

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:24:52 +1200

Shulgin, I don't want to censor or ban you, but I need you to take it down a few notches, please.

And you've made your point about Stuart Mills (and Ross Bell) repeatedly now. Please, no more.

debunk

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:13:42 +1200

With all due respect Shulgin what are you raving on about? I don't know anyone in the administrative or promotional or academic or pharmaceutical drug business in NZ, as you should have gathered. I have been interested in legal highs since working in the health sector in the UK 2005…

Shulgin

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:58:26 +1200

and I have a membership...by donation... to
http://www.erowid.org/

...such thoughtful people....

ginger slice or tan square?

Shulgin

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:40:32 +1200

freak-eek...kush,,,bull shit...

I dunno.... get specific with your excel spreadshit I say...

there is either thousands of cannabis.... hospital admissions...due solely to D I Mills idea...or there isn't...

hey debunk why don't you reproduce the data...ya TWIT...

but i have both spreadsheets debunk....

good on ya'all....

and to Ross Bell,,,,,anniversary…

debunk

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:15:57 +1200

Shulgin

"eeek" ..meek mousey response?
"no rudeness on my part" ..which part?

Twit..gentle aged rebuke ..

Shulgin

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:28:22 +1200

actually it is mandatory to be rude in the face of....
yeah it is....

so we have a public service, and a high level joint operation of health police and customs...NDIB headed up by D I S Mills...he released the Maxwell in secrecy upon the waiting ducks...opps rabbits...cannabis was sending…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:22:12 +1200

...suggested this several times earlier. Attention span of folk ...
Nothing wrong with a little repetition...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GphPmGOHy_Y
...images & ideas...
We like that round here!

;- )

BenWilson

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:11:24 +1200

Civil servants can't legalize cannabis. That has to come from politicians. And at this point, we're looking like it's at least an election cycle before we can even start talking rationally. First they have to ban everything, and see how that works. Presumably, it will be like it was last…

debunk

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:48:51 +1200

Have suggested this several times earlier. Attention span of folk on these threads?

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:41:54 +1200

Sad to say but I suspect that the Govt depts do not know where to go from here. Very tricky situation legally and ethically.

Follow Colorado.

debunk

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:38:11 +1200

Sad to say but I suspect that the Govt depts do not know where to go from here. Very tricky situation legally and ethically.

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:51:49 +1200

Except someone else should do it, because I don’t think I have the expertise to know what questions to ask.

I meant to formulate a new request this morning, but things got busy.

Idiot Savant

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:48:19 +1200

It would be interesting to know what is actually happening.

To the OIA!

Except someone else should do it, because I don't think I have the expertise to know what questions to ask.

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:11:43 +1200

whereas amphetamine was always regarded as a drug of the 50s!

Yes! We tend to forget that. I recall Harry Lyon, whose parents were active in the 50s Auckland jazz/dancehall scene, telling me about asking his mum about a tablet she took before going out and being told "oh, that's…

debunk

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:51:28 +1200

Well its a learning curve for everyone. Talking to a friend who runs an environmental planting care group that is very successful..its a lot of work to get public involvement and buyin. Really that's what you're doing here, regardless of personal opinion .. I was a student of the late…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:33:47 +1200

a contract with ESR
and there used to be MedLabs nationwide until a lower bidder (I assume) took over contracts in Auckland and Canterbury/South Island – maybe they could step up into a new market?

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:25:14 +1200

Yeah, and ISO9000 certified suppliers with certificates of conformity. It works well enough for $2 packets of paracetemol, so ought to be reasonable for $25 party pills.

Yup certificates of analysis are a requirement of the Code of Manufacturing Practice, which was finalised in January.

It would be interesting to…

BenWilson

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:57:50 +1200

Yes, a headline say the numbers are soaring. But that often happens with small numbers. It would be kind of nice to see this problem in perspective with other problems.

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:53:34 +1200

Yeah, and ISO9000 certified suppliers with certificates of conformity. It works well enough for $2 packets of paracetemol, so ought to be reasonable for $25 party pills.

Idiot Savant

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:45:19 +1200

Serious question: What would it take to set up a regime for "purity testing for active ingredients." Someone who knows please correct me if I'm way off base, but I got the impression that wasn't just something you can order off Amazon, or simply port in from overseas.

A bit…

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:42:21 +1200

Thanks Russell. For those of us who are interested these threads have been useful and civilised. I was living in the UK 2006 when volunteers died in these “human drug trials” .. so would not favour them for industry compliance. Students etc do it as a source of income..some go…

debunk

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:59:13 +1200

Thanks Russell. For those of us who are interested these threads have been useful and civilised. I was living in the UK 2006 when volunteers died in these "human drug trials" .. so would not favour them for industry compliance. Students etc do it as a source of income..some go…

Sofie Bribiesca

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:56:14 +1200

a rise in this kind of problem, how does it really stack up against the constant flow of people they have to treat?

Herald has this comment from CADS

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:42:33 +1200

Don’t be rude, Shulgin. Respect to the elderly, not ranting….

Agreed. No one needs to be rude here.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:34:02 +1200

MoH are more of a policy unit these days.
Whereas what this situation really needed was troops on the ground
... plus reasonable and responsible governance?

debunk

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:33:23 +1200

Google "Human Drug Trials" on the Guardian site. Interesting. Don't be rude, Shulgin. Respect to the elderly, not ranting....

Sacha

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:32:04 +1200

As was often the case in the 90s, neoliberal separation of policy and delivery creates gaps in understanding that cause harm.

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:29:41 +1200

MoH are more of a policy unit these days. Don’t do any service delivery like the District Health Board hospitals.

Ah. Whereas what this situation really needed was troops on the ground.

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:28:34 +1200

Just a thought here, too. The MoH may not have considered it a particularly high priority. They’re also in the business of harm assessment, and emergency services very much so. While it might be something that they’d note, a rise in this kind of problem, how does it really stack…

Sacha

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:26:01 +1200

Most night in A&Es they’re treating people
MoH are more of a policy unit these days. Don’t do any service delivery like the District Health Board hospitals.

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:25:52 +1200

Then others that have any reliable connection to reported harms actually occurring. That does require some kind of reporting procedure though, which I’ve never heard of actually happening in A&Es.

My impression is that the adverse response reporting part is actually happening adequately. Other forms of monitoring, not so much.…

BenWilson

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:23:52 +1200

Just a thought here, too. The MoH may not have considered it a particularly high priority. They're also in the business of harm assessment, and emergency services very much so. While it might be something that they'd note, a rise in this kind of problem, how does it really stack…

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:08:16 +1200

Serious question: What would it take to set up a regime for “purity testing for active ingredients.” Someone who knows please correct me if I’m way off base, but I got the impression that wasn’t just something you can order off Amazon, or simply port in from overseas.

No, but…

BenWilson

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:07:33 +1200

Yes, I'd give them some slack that it's probably quite a difficult thing to do. They could surely have got a partial result going, though – target the biggest sellers, look at their purity first, because they have the greatest chance to do harm. Then others that have any reliable…

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:04:49 +1200

New Scientist: Safety fears spook New Zealand's drug reform pioneers

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:50:51 +1200

It certainly sounds that way. The Act provides for certified analyses, audits and site inspections. But I’m told purity testing for active ingredients has only just been implemented.

Serious question: What would it take to set up a regime for "purity testing for active ingredients." Someone who knows please correct…

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:45:26 +1200

Which sounds like a fundamental failure of the regulatory regime. What has Ministry of Health been doing for the last year? Looking at pictures of cats?

It certainly sounds that way. The Act provides for certified analyses, audits and site inspections. But I'm told purity testing for active ingredients has…

BenWilson

Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:10:29 +1200

OK, I get it. So you’re saying it could be that possession plays no part whatsoever in the time that people get, despite there being a conviction for it that does actually carry jail time. Or at the least that the amount of time it contributes is unknown?

ETA: Leaving…

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:04:37 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_RcpHexnOM

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 22:50:09 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVPYFsTlp4Y

Stewart Lee – Scooby Doo Thatcher Routine (Carpet Remnant World 2012)

Idiot Savant

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 22:43:30 +1200

The products they are retailing may be slightly different to those originally approved under the regime but there is no testing of the prodyucts so this is covered up.

Which sounds like a fundamental failure of the regulatory regime. What has Ministry of Health been doing for the last year?…

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 22:28:35 +1200

If this was not against the law, they’d be out of jail sooner. The amount of time spent in jail for cannabis is a real thing, real people’s lives rotting in jail over something millions of NZers have done regularly.

No. I'm saying that, for example someone gets two years…

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:58:35 +1200

at the end o f the day...i can buy trips in china....white powder legal highs.. send to a cuntry that don't make shit anymore....

try and professional plant with manufacturing standards...like Tami flue...legal highs in Albany with the stargate trust...light years ahead,,,giggle next door...

lets talk melk powder now.....

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:27:38 +1200

Ross,,,i sent you a letter about cops fiddling figures....you never replied...and that is the line in the sand...by all means make out you know shit...and fab picture moments...about your herstory...ugly...grasping moments...by all means be snapped next to D I MIlls...but be sure to do the rounds with him....60,000 bed nights…

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:14:17 +1200

fuck off...just give us the acid...happy to participate...markets testing markets...monitor all vital organs for failure...fuck off de bunk

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:03:51 +1200

Concurrent sentencing doesn’t work that way.
But consecutive does.

debunk

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:57:40 +1200

British test method these days is to pay volunteers (probably do here these days too) to stay in "controlled" medical environment and take drugs and have physiological measures sampled ..blood, BP, liver function etc ..some get very sick but that`s what they`re paid for and have signed a waiver contract…

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:57:14 +1200

http://norml.forumotion.co.nz/t62p210-if-sog-is-lime-and-bitters-then-xmas-is-wella-fraud#1709
bunny....is that you DI Mills....when is the cake cumming?

Michael Homer

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:46:40 +1200

If this was not against the law, they’d be out of jail sooner.Concurrent sentencing doesn't work that way. Two years for X plus one month for Y is two years in total.

Sacha

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:17:13 +1200

respec

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:12:29 +1200

thank you!

BenWilson

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:08:01 +1200

You need to contrast between those sent to prison for drug possession alone, and those sent to prison for burglary and drug possession or receiving stolen goods and drug possession.

Why does he need to contrast that? They are still serving time in prison for drug possession. Beginning and end…

Sacha

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:57:35 +1200

that wins some prize for density of references

Sacha

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:55:37 +1200

hopefully we'll know in 20 working days or so

amen

Shulgin

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:38:53 +1200

If I could be particular again.

....media outlets are awash with bunny ears, and, small rodents...right after the Easter rush...apparently various parties are saying they would not allow testing on animals....flash back to the Naenae shop...they sure looked like animals,,,but were cast as dogs... off the chain (cam bell live)…

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:09:57 +1200

because those statistics are published?

I have just OIAed the stats, but my confidence comes from knowing how criminal sentencing works. e.g. Police suspect someone is a burglar, and get a search warrant to search for stolen goods. In the course of the search they find some drugs (getting money…

Sacha

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:46:01 +1200

I am confident

because those statistics are published?

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:35:06 +1200

Mallard just pulled his “no one is ever jailed for pot possession” out of his ass – and carried on even after he was shown evidence of how wrong he is.

You need to contrast between those sent to prison for drug possession alone, and those sent to prison for…

nzlemming

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:32:35 +1200

And before some smartass mentions alcohol, please note that alcohol (and weed) consumption is a hell of a lot easier for medical staff and police to monitor or control than tiny pills.

Because the sale of alcohol is regulated, perhaps? Not perfectly, but it is.

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:34:47 +1200

The products they are retailing may be slightly different to those originally approved under the regime but there is no testing of the products so this is covered up.

And testing is something that's supposed to happen under this law.

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:33:18 +1200

But I think the numbers involved aren’t that high considering the massive amount of the drugs that are being sold.

Yeah, this is interesting. The rest of us have had no idea quite how large the market has been and it only became apparent when we made everyone go to…

Sacha

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:13:08 +1200

alcohol (and weed) consumption is a hell of a lot easier for medical staff and police to monitor or control than tiny pills

that new alcohol powder mentioned on te radio last week sounds problematic.

Andre

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:09:40 +1200

A friend of mine works for a legal high retailer. He has befriended many of his customers and some have his phone number. When he is late to work his phone runs off the hook. He arrives to a crowd of angry customers threatening to knock down the doors of…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:59:56 +1200

Dunne’s high horse.
Is it an elevated
Equus caballus
or beast of burden
Equus asinus
or is it that bray
new world confusion,
the Dunnekey

???

Jackson James Wood

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:41:02 +1200

You should apply.

Jackson James Wood

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:40:03 +1200

Correct me if I'm wrong
Okay: You are correct that the law means companies must prove their drugs meets safety standards before they can go on the market. However, products that were already on sale in the three months prior to the Psychoactive Substances Act passing were given an interim…

Matt Crawford

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:33:23 +1200

I have been wondering how the regulatory authority overseeing this process was getting on.

It’s run by the Ministry of Health.

The act was passed in July 2013.

The job search for the manager of this unit started on 22 April 2014. That’s like, last week. Jobs.Govt.NZ

It might be…

Samuel Buckman

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:23:15 +1200

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Psychoactive Substances Act means that companies must prove that their drug meets safety standards before it can go on to the market.
To do that, they must do clinical trials in which they expose the participants to harm, in…

william blake

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:32:54 +1200

Dunne's high horse.

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:21:35 +1200

I'm hearing a few stories about black-market products — including the problematic already-banned ones. Exactly what's going on out there is not entirely evident.

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:18:34 +1200

Props to Bomber for showing up Trevor Mallard for the know-nothing he is.

Mallard just pulled his "no one is ever jailed for pot possession" out of his ass — and carried on even after he was shown evidence of how wrong he is.

Mellopuffy

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:04:21 +1200

A friend who is a psychiatrist stated on FB this morning that she was disappointed that she wasn't rostered on to work today, as no doubt the mood would be celebratory amongst her colleagues following this weekend's announcement. In a discussion we had about the Act last week, she recounted…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:15:41 +1200

Use powers in existing law says Drug Foundation

The real money quote is down the line a bit…

Mr Bell said that the Government now has an obligation to support those who chose to stop using psychoactive products and to closely monitor the soon to be unapproved substances.

“Extra support…

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:08:57 +1200

I’ve just come back from a week in Colorado, looking at the effects of legalisation there. I’ll write a post about it as soon as I have time, but spoiler alert: there were no naked people in trees setting fire to their children.

Welcome back! Really looking forward to reading…

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:08:13 +1200

The Drug Foundation's press statement just now:

Use powers in existing law says Drug Foundation

The announcement of changes to the Psychoactive Substances Act to remove currently approved ‘legal highs’ from sale is disappointing due to its political nature, and will lead to stockpiling and black-market sales the New Zealand…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:51:27 +1200

National has placed a candidate from the tobacco industry in the safe seat of Clutha-Southland.
Now we know where The Butt Stops then...

debunk

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:49:54 +1200

Who'd have thought a National government would close down a whole lot of small businesses legally established through its very own clever world beating legislation?

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:43:49 +1200

David Cunliffe was “playing politics”
The quote that got me this morning – was Cunliffe's surprised sounding comment to the effect that 'if he'd known all it took to get the Government to do something was to issue a policy statement to the media, he'd have done more of it...'…

Damian Christie

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:43:21 +1200

I've just come back from a week in Colorado, looking at the effects of legalisation there. I'll write a post about it as soon as I have time, but spoiler alert: there were no naked people in trees setting fire to their children.

debunk

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:40:42 +1200

May I be wrong, but see big chemical test and business compensation costs looming. Pity Govt didn't ensure chemical tests first to establish product safety and compare with British data which seems well established (Ramsey discussion earlier). Heard the Startrust manager (?) in Europe this morning talking to Morning Report.…

BenWilson

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:30:00 +1200

Drug use is a health issue, and a personal liberty issue. That second part of it got eroded to being worth nearly zero, before being called by the umpire as now officially zero. I think the new name for Dunne should be "Silver Hammer".

Tim Michie

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:11:31 +1200

A continuation rather than a coincidence, please again for a detox facility for medical assessment. Drug use is a health issue. Yet underlying causes including mental health issues are in the too-hard-basket. I feel your frustration.

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:42:55 +1200

I look forward to them banning gasoline, though. Who'd have thought that a National government would shut down the oil industry?

BenWilson

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:24:52 +1200

I did say “elephant in the room style”. It could be done without that. It’s how it’s being done* in NZ that I’m referring to.

It seems better than just waiting for things to improve after the prohibitionist apocalypse. But, then, I’ve always been a dirty incrementalist.

Well, now we’ve…

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:11:25 +1200

The silver lining is the philosophical bankruptcy of harm reduction policy (elephant in the room style)

Oh, come on. Harm minimisation is what brought us needle exchanges and safe needle drops for IV drug users, and allows pill testing at at dance parties in more enlightened countries. It’s what got…

Grant McDougall

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:10:48 +1200

Slightly off-topic, but there's been, unsurprisingly, some pretty hypocritical comments by MPs over this.

The Nats claimed David Cunliffe was "playing politics" when he accused the PM of milking the royal visit for publicity (and to be fair, Cunliffe shouldn't have commented about it).

Yet Dunne now turns around and…

BenWilson

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:09:08 +1200

The OIA will tell us whether he’s lying about the timing or not

Yes, it would be good to go from 99.9% sure he's a liar to 99.99% sure. That's incremental progress right there.

Idiot Savant

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:45:47 +1200

Peter Dunne for his part insists that the government had already decided to ban everything butwas delaying an announcment to prevent stockpiling.

The OIA will tell us whether he's lying about the timing or not.

Sacha

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:40:10 +1200

cheers

Dylan Reeve

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:26:26 +1200

Utter bullshit. As if Labour proposing a policy forces the govt to enact it.

If Dunne was actually worried about the impact of announcing his change, there was nothing to stop his continued silence – except the sheer political vanity of wanting to be seen as the one who thought…

BenWilson

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:21:51 +1200

The silver lining is the philosophical bankruptcy of harm reduction policy (elephant in the room style) has finally had the creditors called in. It's a bit like seeing Dunkirk as a step forward. Finally, we're in a position to call an end. Not the beginning of the end...that's still a…

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:53:50 +1200

But that $500k fine only applies to a body corporate, not an individual.

Well, for individuals, the maximum fine is the same then. $10,000. But vastly different for bodies corporate.

Sacha

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:47:37 +1200

"He now says any consequences of the hasty ban will be on Labour"
Utter bullshit. As if Labour proposing a policy forces the govt to enact it.

If Dunne was actually worried about the impact of announcing his change, there was nothing to stop his continued silence – except the…

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:47:35 +1200

I would note that the maximum fine for drug dealing/growing/etc. offences is substantially lower than that applying to other psychoactives covered by this regime.

But that $500k fine only applies to a body corporate, not an individual.

Graeme Edgeler

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:44:09 +1200

By comparison, the penalties relating to cannabis under the Misuse of Drugs Act are much more severe: three months jail for possession and eight years for supply or even growing plants.

And soon to be ten years for possession of a book about growing the plants (or 14 years if…

Dan Salmon

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:39:27 +1200

Hey Russell, thanks for this thoughtful post. Helps me make sense of the whole mess.

bob daktari

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:30:03 +1200

This all seems like a knee jerk reaction to the media frenzy surrounding how these substances were destroying the very fabric of our society... and as a result we can expect little rationale dialogue around recreational drugs for a few more years?

Meanwhile the minimum alcohol pricing is rejected (booze…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:28:53 +1200

As far as the politics goes…

There’s no political downside for anyone in a lot of hot air – and hasty, not-terribly-well-designed legislation – to solve a problem that doesn’t exist, and there’s no credible case would ever happen? I’m really not impressed by the (figurative) willy-waving going on between…

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:16:48 +1200

Good post on the issue here by Tim Watkin. Especially this info provided to The Nation:

Nicola Kean, a producer for The Nation, asked the Ministry of Health last week:

“What’s the trend (if any) for people presenting at A+E for problems with psychoactive substances since the law was introduced?”…

Ray Gilbert

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:16:30 +1200

Yep – and in news just to hand – Naitonal has placed a candidate from the tobacco industry in the safe seat of Clutha-Southland. Sigh!

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:50:25 +1200

People have been asking in the other thread about the legal implications of possessing these substances now. As per Section 71 of the Act, mere possession is not a very serious offence:

71 Offence relating to personal possession of psychoactive substance that is not approved product
(1)A person commits an…

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:36:20 +1200

Does this mean that products which have not been submitted for interim approval (and which are not part of previously banned) will no longer be illegal? The scope of the new law will be crucial.

The law remains, but without the interim approvals. So any of the products could subsequently…

Russell Brown

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:34:49 +1200

Sounds dangerous. Keep it illegal.

Damn you. I just fixed that.

George Darroch

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:33:05 +1200

taking all products with interim approval off the market.

Does this mean that products which have not been submitted for interim approval (and which are not part of previously banned categories) will no longer be illegal? The scope of the new law will be crucial.

__they and their parties were…

Jackson James Wood

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:31:37 +1200

Bingo

Public Address

Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:31:36 +1200

Discussion from blog post.