eddie
19 Aug 2011 2:24p.m.
Haahaaa, Clarke, I would shoot alot at a labour youth rally, but take you…

Coffee, of course!

Anything to do with computing would probably work too.

I can't remember the names of the people that did "switch", if I can remember where I saw their story I'll…

The…

There are a couple of significant neo-cons who were involved with both the Reagan administration, who also had some involvement with Bush Snr and Jnr, who were in the depths of the New Left some 20 years before.…

I have not, but occasionally I switch off Adblock Plus on gmail to see what adsense selects for the comments – and it’s mostly stuff to do with memory systems, with the odd book and…

I'd notice if you started doing the obvious thing and putting ads on your site. I'm quite curious what Google would pick for ads for there. Have you tried it?

or

Cave art emptier
(Neanderthal concepts ahead)

I suspect more than that, but I honestly don't know. Perhaps Russell has some idea.

That's true too, and it works for the most part. Except when you get that 'it can't be that bad' bravado, and it invariably is. Or worse.

That's less than the Oamaru Mail. Or the Upper Hutt Leader. Or Salient.

I suspect a lot of the reason he gets attention is that he's one of…

Often do so manually

Somewhere in between the over two hundred thousand visits he registered in July and the thirteen hundred odd subscribers he has on Google Reader. Likely a lot closer to the second number than the first, but still, it's no peanuts.

They do. But I wonder if a clever tech could issue a warning note on certain site links saying:

"You are entering a site whose head doesn't know what it's arseholes are doing" or some such, to…

My blog will suddenly become your most trusted source for over-the-counter Viagra and Cialis. No-one will even notice.

How many people *actually* read Kiwiblog, or any blog, on a regular basis. Tens of thousands? (I couldn't find a number. I found that he's #63000 in the world, but no idea what that means as actual regular…

I'd hate to see your account blocked :-)

No, I haven't. Most outbound links here tend to be to worthwhile sources. You wouldn't want to deprive them of the PA juice.

(Makes mental note to do more spamming on PAS.)

I don't see it anywhere in the html source generated.

I doubt it. Russell would have established a "nofollow" regime in the links coming from this site I presume?

So if there isn't action (why would there be? Farrar loves his bigoted fascist commentators. They're the core of…

No, but links on here will certainly raise its ranking in Google. But I don't think it's really worth worrying about that much. If you're concerned, it's better to signpost your links with comments. That said,…

I doubt most of Kiwibleurghs readers get there by clicking through from Public Address.

It's a call for action, and the implication that in the absence of…

Too bad the article doesn't say nor imply any such thing, quite the contrary.

Businesses that run cruise ships have to buy life preservers. Companies that sell alcohol have to keep it away from kids. And people who make communities on the web have to moderate them.

There is no unfettered right to published speech. Speech is a…

That makes the questionable assumption that hateful speech doesn't hurt anybody, and that if you expose yourself to it, it's your fault.

If people want to read the sewerblog pages, or comment offensively on a public site, or buy the Sunday Star Times, then it's up to them. For commodity sites like Google and TradeMe, should they…

#viztoptips....

Nah. The syntax is far too coherent.

the sound of one p clapping

@recordari AKA Jack.

Oh, but that would simply encourage the incipient victimhood I am sure is stored up in the mind of our little friend, waiting to be unleashed.

Yup, if they've got something to actually say, it's an open forum.

Also, it didn't add up because the number of posts the impostor made looked unusually low. Anyone got his IP address? Follow that hacker!

Mind you, someone did the same with Duncan Garner on…

Yup. I have some idea who it might be and could probably chase down a name, but really, who gives a shit?

...and also an interesting article at Wired
on undeletable cookies – something else to worry about!

Cool. You're in a better position to make that call, so I've deleted the reference. Fair's fair and unfair shouldn't stand.

L

No, I don't think so. It's just a drive-by by someone with a weak argument.

{REDACTED – SEE RUSSELL'S REPLY BELOW}

And folks wonder why I’ve got issues with anonymity on-line…

ETA: Hey, ‘Russel’, why don’t you come here…

Password changed.

The sorry thing is, the person responsible could have said the same things as an actual commenter, but chose to do it the creepy way. Ugh. Not the best way to make a point, methinks.

Update: Duh. Of course. Not hacked. Just some ninny using my…

You could put that on the brick wall and it would look great. :)

Robert Reich, in his "Truth About the Economy" video, stated that the middle…

So they seek to destroy it themselves

Quite. There's plenty to get angry about, and a lot of it relates to disenfranchisement. But the anger is being directed…

Well, it certainly ain't Pro Bono

So they seek to destry it themselves

s61 – whioh makes it unlawful to publish or distribute what could be regarded as"hate speech" – "racial disharmony".

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/DLM304652.html?search=ts_act_Human+Rights+Act+1993_resel&p=1

&

s131 – details the offences for which "racial disharmony" creates…

Let’s sum up the responses of the Teapartystan Knights Templar so far…

– No True Scotsman (most common form of denial)
– PC gone mad pushed Breivik over the edge (‘the Left had it coming’)
– A Reichstag-burning plot by commies/jihadis…

The right’s dangerous new narrative tries to have it both ways: Breivik was a crazed man operating in a cultural vacuum — unlike Islamic extremists, who feed off a network of incendiary rhetoric and veiled threats by public figures which must…

It is better, yes, but still flawed*. Economics is, of course, social.

Relatedly, I never quite understood the “conscience vote”, which, if allowed, is usually “moral”…

The position tends to be self appointed.

how do you get to be one of those?

In the example I made earlier about the Italian constitution, it must be noted that the that articles that protect against discrimination on racial and religious grounds do weigh implicitly on the one…

Fear of association seems to be a common criteria..
e.g.
"I may secretly think what you say is fine but I fear others will be offended so I will side with the objectors for fear of association" so you stick with…

You were responding to me, not to Sacha, and my question…

Which is essentially what I said to David above. The question isn't "what specific criteria should we use to…

The way the Italian constitution (est. 1948) dealt with this, like many other foundational documents of its time, was to enshrine freedom of expression (article…

You'll also get an immovable point in time. If we had forever codified norms about speech in the 1950s they'd look very different to the ones we have argued our way…

Just like porno – hard to define on paper, but you know it when you see it.

Then I reiterate my earlier point, if you want certainty and simplicity, you'll get the lowest common denominator standard.

It was intended as a general observation that individualists are less likely to support collective civic processes that restrain personal action. Others may disagree with the methods but support the goal.

However, I'm sure I didn't say…

Sacha, you stated above that you think it possible I support the 'sustained "othering" of groups of fellow humans ... to disadvantage members of that group' and that I probably 'have…

I am not going to get into tit-for-tat personal observations, but will just note that you’re the one projecting attitudes and beliefs on to me. I don’t know why or…

I'd prefer a lawyer to. The key phrase, as is mentioned in a quote above, is speech 'with intent to excite hostility or ill-will against, or bring into contempt or ridicule, any group of persons in New Zealand'.

Each of those terms…

If you want to read the word "issues" as psychological rather than political, there's little I can do about that.

My statement "If you don't like that.." refers to the preceding paragraph and its final sentence:

When there is sustained 'othering' of groups of fellow humans, it tends to lead to us and our institutions acting…

Would you care to articulate it for us?

I would like there to be a clear statement of the principles underpinning free speech, one that is clear enough for, for example, the morons making up the National Front to understand.

Free speech is a…

Whoah there Sacha. Opposition to the…

Well, thanks to people like these knuckle dragging small government bible thumpers, America will have nothing to worry about come Tuesday, nothing at all.

That's misleadingly narrow. The body of law and process on this has been developed over many decades by courts, parliament and other social institutions, in conjunction with broader public discourse through various forms including media. Campaigns,…

It's not what I'm saying at all. I would like…

Yes, it does. As I understand it, Giovanni, Kracklite, and others are saying that the basis on which it defines these…

Soy it isn't so...
Godwin’s Law about fart jokes
you mean Go Winds Law

What's this about beans now?

Beans are bad for boundaries.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2063952,00.html

Media need to set/subscribe to a standard and self regulate its own code to a major degree, where that mechanism fails then there is a role for the “state” to play.

We have the BSA, Race & Human Rights Commission(ers) the BSA & the NZ Press Council and…

As we all know, the Political Compass codifies that.

That is a view that I share – furthermore IMHO the left and right are irrelevant and a distraction of sorts that fog the real issues.…

Jefferson,

one line
hooked and sunk
(the whole thing)

the line
you have to draw it somewhere
(all art begins here)

straight line
plumbed
(with all the right angles)

off line
if not over the...
(not connecting)

what's my line
dirty linen airing
(and pocket…

Erm, later this evening. After my perfect venison stew ( animal killed by a nephew & grandnephew. Cooked by my mother and me....droolsome.Cheers!~)

The lines that DCBCauchi refers to are drawn all the time, but they are notoriously hard to define in universal terms.

The footer of the bill draws the line.

So that's got me off the hook.

+2

Basically when it comes to the freedom of speech and over stepping the line it's all about the vibe.

I do however reserve…

but, NVM. never too late i suppose.

It's hard to disagree with that. So I'm not even going to try.

And, personally speaking, I also think that I have a clear moral right to use whatever…

It seems to me that one reason this whole area is so murky is because the lines between thought…

And I dont have any difficulty with that answer whatsoever (not least because the criteria evolve as society changes.)

Orly?

haven't we being talking about that for years now?

is this an aspirational goal, like catching up australia?

If the National Front wants to organise a march against Muslims and call it performance art, I think the state will have the right to differ, and to test that claim in a court of law.…

And that right has been stoutly defended in this country. The philosophical battle over the contents…

Just where does that leave plaigerism – and copyright?

I disagree with you strongly about open…

Gillard here has mooted regulation also.

There's a good podcast debate from the LSE on this very issue, I got it on iTunes so can't easily link to it but if you search the podcasts…

As broadcast steadily loses its Reithian universal reach and the audience fragments, I suspect we will have to reconsider statutory regulation. We have to some extent anyway, in regulating pay…

But other media might still be? Yet another challenge for any definitive or universal test for the "potential for harm".

No, I think we should specify those broad principles as much as possible.

Ditto, I can't however...…

Mmmm.
Which does rather bring up the rather loaded query – who is an artist?
Not just askin’ –…

No, I think we should specify those broad principles as much as possible.

FWIW, I collaborated with Steven Price on a report for the Broadcasting Standards Authority on regulating internet content. My conclusion was that regulation of…

You think there should be a simple and universal answer rather than broad principles and common law? I'd worry that the bar would be set very low.

No-one has in any way tried to specify how to determine that. That's all I'm asking.

Well, I've totally missed that. The question seems to me to have been systematically dodged.

And, yes, I have read the…

I think there's been a few, good faith, attempts (and perhaps you needn't insist that yours is the only question).

Interestingly, from the "scandal" relating to Henson's photos of naked adolescents, there was a great deal of discussion…

About halfway. I thought it would be in the interest of artists that their freedom of expression not be subject to there not being any form of censorship whatsoever. And I stand by that.

Wrong question. The right one is “what are our criteria, if any, for restricting speech?”

I did cite some earlier. The scarcity or otherwise of access to a platform for speech is one, the actual…

Don't know. Have you read them, for a start? Because that ought to give you a pretty good idea of their purposes and framework. I also think your question has been answered half a dozen times but if that's now how it feels to you…

No, I think he meant the specific 'you'.

I think he meant the general 'you' rather than the specific 'you'.

Yet again: I want to determine the basis on which those statutes are made, because it directly affects me, as it does everyone.

Really, how hard is it?

But still missing a point that I thought was obvious from the start. This maniac's actions are a direct result of the Neo-cons. "War on Terror" that labels all Muslims as a problem and any who ain't with us are…

Where on earth did I say that? I want none of those things and honestly have no idea why you think I would.…

No smart phone? Kidding.

Actually, I thought the regulars made plain the degree of tolerance that applied here, after which il Dottore stepped into the doorman's role nicely.

At the supermarket, assisting capitalism. 'pologies.

Would not dream of it Sir.
Your assumptions are not always spot on.

Why be hypotehtical? Have you got any specific problem with the statutes that we do have?

Thank you Russell, "Mission Accomplished"

Don't be disingenuous.

Gio's opinion, apparently.

And seriously, I’ll think on your lasted posted comment -

Except to say this, and then leave the presents for a couple of hours: if your beef is with the fact that issues of free speach can be raised at all, I think it would serve artists poorly. You want people…

Oh well. You did have your chance. Go away.

Let's reframe the question:

Hypothetically, what specific criteria should we use to determine whether something is legitimate free speech?

I haven't been very clear at all. Sorry.

It’s hard to judge on the merit of a case I’m ignorant of. Specifically: did the people who wanted the artwork removed appeal to the…

Judge what? Are you deliberately trying to avoid the question I'm repeatedly asking? If you've no intention to answer it, why not just say so?

Not really. And you (should) know it.

Can you refresh our memory as to how it specifically went, then? It’s hard to judge otherwise.

also, i humbly withdraw the previous comment about the robinson picture. have considered, and actually kind of like it.

Just handing him enough rope.

No, it was specifically a free speech issue.

But I didn't raise it to relitigate that particular case. Rather, I raised it as an example towards a more general (or abstract) discussion specifying the basis on which it is legitimate…

Can we stop feeding the troll already?

O Swiftfeather, my brother. You hung your drum too....prematurely.

It is a hard way, the way of being a man. Sooner or later we all want a thing…

Oi, moderators? Are you guys asleep or something?

That wasn’t an example of state censorship, though, was it? Different institutions will have their own rules, and…

There was an attempt to have Jenny Harper remove it from her office at Victoria University, which is why I raised it as a real world example of these kind of issues.

The courts interpret the laws on a case-by-case basis, and damn straight the informed citizenry frame the context in which those laws and decisions are made.

So,…

and... unlikely to be censored or cause anyone to murder someone. IMHO.

What Paul said. We make the laws. We discuss the use of symbols of hatred in art. All the time. It's a dynamic process.

I doubt that anybody, inside or outside of a court, would have much difficulty differentiating between that use of the svastika and the use of a svastika on a Nazi flag, or on the cover of a book in praise of…