It's: test for impairment; if the driver is impaired, test for drugs. A positive drugs test isn't enough.

Well, I waited 2 years to be able to drive with legal mind altering drugs, and a blood test for me shows up as alcohol reading because my drugs indicate the same blah blah blah that alcohol does but a professional understands this, and would cops?

Can I suggest going…

For your second point, I would note:

1. it isn't just illegal drugs.
2. New section 73A is quite clear that the evidence obtained under the compulsory test cannot be used for a charge under the Misuse of Drugs Act.

Point 2 is so random. Not that I'm not in…

it isn't just illegal drugs.

Well, I waited 2 years to be able to drive with legal mind altering drugs, and a blood test for me shows up as alcohol reading because my drugs indicate the same blah blah blah that alcohol does but a professional understands this, and would…

public-service TV commercials created to warn would-be drugged drivers of the legal, moral and physical consequences of getting behind the wheel

This is depressing. In all the fluff around reducing the road toll, I think there is an absence of a real critical look at these advertising campaigns.

I went…

I don't like the idea of a scheme that's supposedly about road safety being used as a fishing expedition for drug use.

It seems pretty fucked, particularly if the police have absolute discretion over who they pick to waste a whole bunch of time for. Anyone can claim they smelled…

pot remains in your system for ages without your being impaired by any stretch of the definition.

I don't like the idea of a scheme that's supposedly about road safety being used as a fishing expedition for drug use.

I believe the standard response is that if you're not impaired…

The movie trailer looked a bit disappointing to me. The aliens look like the elves from LOTR crossed with the aforementioned Smurfs.

Also, my mother modelled a perfectly standard feminine gender role – I'm still (fairly) butch. My…

The police still have to prove impairment.

I think.

To be honest, it's not all that clear.

Hi all, I was employed by the MoT as a scientist during some of the time this drug driving legislation was being worked out (I have moved on since then). I did the…

Both the Prime Minister and Opposition leader have previously said the law is working and the referendum result will not encourage them to change it.

[... Baldock] says the Prime Minister's comments are "pretty offensive" to 87% of New…

Suggestions ?

Those blue things are clearly all on drugs.

Yes folks, I linked to the new Smurfs movie trailer!!

I can see exactly where Brian Edward's is coming from. His position is a personal one based on his life experience and as such it is one he has a perfect right to hold.

I agree he has a “perfect right to hold” his view. I don’t see how it…

Have a look at this latest trailer for a low profile, small budget indie film that, word on the street is, might be the sleeper hit of 2009.

Those blue things are clearly all on drugs.

They're probably suggesting that you shouldn't try crossing the road while high ;)

I bet he died happy, but seriously why didn't he just tell his partner he had just taken a giant toke and couldn't drive right now.Communication, the answer to all problems .

and Brian Edwards is way…

Have a look at this latest trailer for a low profile, small budget indie film that, word on the street is, might be the sleeper hit of 2009.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/avatar/teasermedium.html

Can I just point out that the title of Russell's other thread

This thread. Duh. I'm obviously the misguided product of an unbroken home.

I can't cope with puns. When it comes to puns, I'm copeless.

Then welcome to the Coper Cabana, Steve.

You're cope-tastic! Er, no ... Cope-ious?

I can't cope with puns. When it comes to puns, I'm copeless.

Large bushy shrubs growing up and around the wires have also been suggested – a whole bunch of small branches would act as 'springs' to absorb any impact. Advantageous from a green perspective, but would require a wider central strip, and would make maintenance difficult.

Or even dual carriageway, like…

You're cope-tastic! Er, no ... Cope-ious?

A sucker for punishment. :)

You're on the drugs already?

Heh. I forgot which thread this was. Way to bring it back around, Russell!

It's quite difficult to type with my eyes rolling this much.

You're on the drugs already?

Tom: Oh, nuts. I can "cope" with other, and fundamentally disagreeable, points of view — otherwise I'd have flounced out of PAS about five minutes after it went live. :)

You're cope-tastic! Er, no ... Cope-ious?

And you all wonder how it came to pass we got a government built on resentment of being patronised.

It's quite difficult to type with my eyes rolling this much.

I just think it's fucking stupid as hell.

Use of four letter words would seem indicate otherwise?

Technically seven.

Yes, you guys are all right on this issue – 100% in fact!

And you all wonder how it came to pass we got a government built on resentment of being patronised.

Besides I am sure Brian Edwards doesn't need me to argue his corner for him.

I, of course, think the best adoptive parent for a baby is an invisible gay unicorn.

Oh, there you go trying to ram your politically correct invisible gay unicorn agenda down people's throats. Isn't anyone thinking about the children, and the threat of losing an eye on the invisible pointy…

Careful, Danielle, you're damaging your cause by being angry.

I'm glad you made that joke before someone actually said it seriously. :)

Only bloody just. I really think I deserve some kind of 'predicting the internet' prize for that.

How depressing is it that the more cynical I become, the…

Maybe some people need to learn how to cope with another point of view.

Tom: Oh, nuts. I can "cope" with other, and fundamentally disagreeable, points of view — otherwise I'd have flounced out of PAS about five minutes after it went live. :)

It's the ones that illogicallly and…

Maybe some people need to learn how to cope with another point of view.

You first.

I just think it's fucking stupid as hell.
Use of four letter words would seem indicate otherwise?

So Danielle should have said "I think it's fucking stupid as" ?
Says the same really.

Use of four letter words would seem indicate otherwise?

Oh Jesus Christ. Really? I haven't had someone pull that shit on me online since the *1990s*. You're kidding, right?

you seem to me to be demanding he not hold it all

What *are* you on about? I'm saying his argument…

Edwards' position may be flawed (and probably is), but it's based on perceived harm reduction.

3410, from what I've seen, ALL arguments against gay adoption are based on perceived harm reduction. The problem being that the perception of harm can be based on a homophobic position.

So the question might…

Brian Edwards' Extremely Illogical Argument Generator

I don't there's an implicit rule that all personal experience must be taken as indicative of the general, but if all personal experience must be abandoned, then there hardly seems any point in thinking at all.

1) Homophobia is ugly, stupid, cowardly, and destructive.

2) Edwards' position may be flawed (and probably is), but it's…

I just think it's fucking stupid as hell.

Use of four letter words would seem indicate otherwise?

Here is the problem I have. The argument seems to not that disagree with his point of view but that you seem to me to be demanding he not hold it all. That…

Dude, I *cope* with it fine. I just think it's fucking stupid as hell. Is that allowed?

Careful, Danielle, you're damaging your cause by being angry.

I, of course, think the best adoptive parent for a baby is an invisible gay unicorn. There are, after all, no recorded examples at…

Maybe some people need to learn how to cope with another point of view.

Dude, I *cope* with it fine. I just think it's fucking stupid as hell. Is that allowed?

Snap! On the basis of my experience as the child of an alcoholic mother (adroitly enabled by a conflict-shy husband in very deep denial), let me spin the Brian Edwards' Extremely Illogical Argument Generator and posit that people who drink should be sterilised and not allowed to marry --…

I can't figure out why the powers-that-be haven't used reaction time tests to determine driver impairment by any cause, alcohol, illegal or legal drugs, fatigue, dementia, stupidity, whatever. Even the simple ruler test will pick up that someone shouldn't be in control of a car. Dangle a 12" rule in…

Whether or not it is useful to extrapolate from his particular to the wider general debate…

A good Media 7 last night (and I second the comments about Marie McNicholas--we need more journos like her)--but the two radio guys were a waste of space. Don't they get more than enough time to stroke their egos on radio?

My 16 year old…

Having also had that experience, I agree with him, though I'm not sure that the conclusion follows.

That's why I'm blaming homophobia (partially) for this. 'I think boys who grow up without fathers are significantly disadvantaged' does not lead in any way logically to 'gay people shouldn't be allowed to…

land transport amendment act 2009 comes into force 1 december this year .
goes like this –
If an officer has 'good cause to suspect you are driving under the influence of a drug or durgs' ( eg he opens the door and the car…

However, Edwards clearly has a basis for his position which one could reasonably not ascribe to homophobia, doesn't he?

3410: If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and is buying into the noxious and reality-deficient stereotype that gays and lesbians don't relate to the opposite sex just…

His opposition seems, to me, to be rooted in his belief that boys who grow up without fathers are significantly disadvantaged by it; a belief based on his own experience. Having also had that experience, I agree with him, though I'm not sure that the conclusion follows.

Not to ring…

Scientists really only appear as handy cyphers for shady dealing.

Would be entirely cynical of me to suggest that they weren't going to let the science get in the way of one hell of a 'human interest' story — the very element of Let Us Spray Marie McNicholas ripped shit…

My opposition is not rooted in homophobia.

Except that it is.

How so? His opposition seems, to me, to be rooted in his belief that boys who grow up without fathers are significantly disadvantaged by it; a belief based on his own experience. Having also had that experience, I agree…

One wonders if they will test for people under the influence of (legal) prescription drugs...

Why wonder? Just read the Land Transport Amendment Act =)

The answer is yes.

But if you had a prescription, and complied with all the instructions given by the manufacturer, in the prescription and by…

Oh Craig, I can't handle any more Things Which Make Me Hate People today! Damn you! :)

I know what you mean — a link came up in my Twitter feed, and I thought the headline was a piss-take. Apparently not.

Except that it is. And gender essentialism. And sexism.…

Hard News: Home, straight

PS Russel, have you been reading The Up Front Guide to Strategic Comma Placement?

I like how you slipped that 50% figure in there

I don't have the inclination or the time to really rush off and become an expert in road safety. I chose that number because it seemed a reasonable ball park figure for some back of the envelope calculatons to check…

My opposition is not rooted in homophobia.

Except that it is. And gender essentialism. And sexism. And stupidity. FAIL.

I also like the idea of ordinary citizens being able to reward good drivers with 'mod points", and when you get enough mod points you get a prize or something.

Surely the point of mod points is to be able to mod other drivers down, eg. I drive well, you…

There will always be kids without gender models – boys without fathers and (fewer) girls without mothers. Those, if you like, are the breaks. But that…

Motorcyclists call them cheesecutters with good reason.

Don't ride a motorbike then.

The cheesecutter site notes that there are modifications you can make to make them safe for motorcyclists. No costings given, but surely less expensive than steel barriers ? I wonder if thick coreflute is the go. If so,…

So if barriers on state highways and other key highspeed areas could reduce that by even 50% that is 1.37 billion dollars saved per year, or over five years a return on investment of 6.8 billion dollars.

I like how you slipped that 50% figure in there. Because half of…

I will provide the research and evidence, which is the same Min. Transport and LTNZ (or whatever they are now) have also used in the road safety strategy.

That's interesting. I just had a quick nose, and found a swedish study. They autopsy 97% of all road fatalities including full…

I just don't get that TAC Drug Driving one, the guy's not even driving or are they suggesting the other driver was on something? weird.

They're probably suggesting that you shouldn't try crossing the road while high ;)

For me, the TAC ads were effective. Unpleasant, definitely, but they get…

The show opens with a pretty frank exchange of views between me and Keith Slater, producer of the TV3 documentary Let Us Spray.

This just confirmed my suspicions of the extent to which TV3 have been hoodwinked by Andrew Gibbs. The guy's a paranoid conspiracy theorist of Wishartian proportions who…

my mate who likes to juggle knives on the bonnet of a moving car ?

You know Zoe Bell?

On the Kieth Slater thing – There is an ugly logic which prevails in these cases that appears to operate like this:

This is…

I will provide the research and evidence, which is the same…

If, based on the subjective tests, they think you're impaired the Polcie can require you (as per alcohol tests) to undergo a blood test. If that proves you had a drug in your blood (no level required, unlike alcohol) you will be charged.

Charged – but not necessarily convicted.

The…

My reply:

"Tom, don't do X"

Please feel free to insert your own value of X. It should be something you enjoy doing, but which is arguably somewhat dangerous and not necessarily adding to the sum total of humankind's safety.

Smoking, drinking, cycling,…

Motorcyclists call them cheesecutters with good reason.

Don't ride a motorbike then.

research strongly suggests lowering the blood alcohol limit would indeed save lives

Hi Ross. The AA recently argued that that was not the case — that the relationship between blood alcohol level and crash rates was not very clear cut, and that the evidence for a lower rate being beneficial…

I was told that the cheap as chips "Cheesecutter" barriers so disliked by motorcyclists cost around $100,000 per km to install.

They are cheap as chips because they have been banned (on safety grounds) by quite a few countries. So the manufacturers are quite happy to offload their unusable surplus…

I suspect the main drug of concern is marijuana.

I bet it's totally ineffective for marijuana too...

But I do wonder how useful that kind of test would be for someone stoned or high.

It will be not much use at all for amphetamines. I suspect the main drug of concern is marijuana. One presumes they'll have to film it for evidence as well, providing a field…

police will use something similar to the US-styled subjective tests (touch your nose etc)

Hm. I've always been able to touch my nose, no matter what I was on. (I'm not a big drinker. Or a driver under the influence of anything. But I do wonder how useful that kind…

From 1 December roadside drug testing will begin – not using any technology (because good drug tests don't exist);…

But in most accidents I read about, none of those things would have made a difference.

Cutting the speed limit isn't going…

That first BDO show she did was so great. You can self-consciously transgress all over me if you like, Peaches!

Indestructible eyeworm! :)

And, just for Danielle, Notorious B.I.G. ‘Party And Bullshit (Ratatat Remix)’.

Thanks! :) That is rad, particularly the stuff behind the verses! (It's wrong of me to be unreasonably pleased with Biggie's delivery of the line 'bitch is in the back looking righteous', isn't it? Thought so.)

Also, since I…

I get the idea people just assume nasty traffic ads will actually change behaviour. But, psychologically, punishment (and that is vicarious punishment) doesn't work very well. You need show what people need to do instead and reward that (like certain drinking-driving ads at the…

The show opens with a pretty frank exchange of views between me and Keith Slater, producer of the TV3 documentary Let Us Spray.

Am I just projecting, or were there a couple of points where you wanted to scream "stop being so fucking obtuse, Keith" and belt him in the…

Step 1:
Drivers will be required to provide a saliva sample by placing an absorbent collector in their mouth or touching it on…

Introduce compulsory third-party insurance.

ROADS:

Change give-way rules for turning traffic and pedestrians.

MOTORCYCLES:

Introduce a programme of remedial work for motorcycling "black spots".

FATIGUE:

Promote more roadside stopping places.

I like these options, the others not so much.