Scoop: Ombudsman Decision In Hobbit Case Feb 2013 – Full Text

And the predictable responses below. Not surprising since Sir PJ had to sue New Line after they engaged in a bit of Hollywood…

People on the the FB page “Keep the Hobbit production in NZ” were offering to work for nothing, now is that volunteerism? Not in my view. My terminology however uncomfortable for you was accurate.

I don't think it was. This is not the FB page – no one is offering…

@Alec: I know you're a relative noob around here, but make your point without the name-calling and man-splaining patronage. It's good to form to pay PAS contributors the basic courtesy of presuming what they is in good faith, and with no…

From what I understand from my fellow Guilds there are some legislative reasons for this that are unique to every country. These legislations are constantly under attack and revision though. Mostly though it comes down to…

Did other countries used to use contracts and changed, or have we always been a…

Employee vs contractor status is not quite as clear-cut as that. You can find many examples of people who work under documented service contracts, who are in fact employees (although not so much the other way).

Things like flexible working time, control of IP/personality/publicity rights, taking on…

Entering into fixed term emplyment contracts for actors is one option the NZ industry could consider. However this has…

All things to think about, and downsides of employee status that I'm sure no-one has pointed out to the members of NZ Actors' Equity.

From what I've understood of the situation they're not aiming to place themselves in employee status at all, i.e. they've already looked at the issues you've…

The MEAA tried unsuccessfully to target Outrageous Fortune Series 6 as a way of…

Don’t be pushed off your trail of enquiry Jacqui by “on message” producers and ‘scabbits’.

@Alec: I know you're a relative noob around here, but make your point without the name-calling and man-splaining patronage. It's good to form to pay PAS contributors the basic courtesy of presuming what they is…

Craig, I dont think you can take the Public Lending Right for Authors as *in any way* equivalent to the current stoush between unions. In fact,…

I stand corrected on that point. And yes, that would hurt.
However, on the idea that by taking certain action, you are threatening to hurt people, I'm not so sure.

The bottom line for me is this: What or who started this? Did everyone…

They're not hurt yet. They may not get hurt.

There are people losing work already. Some have been working for some weeks (or months) already and were stood down last week and this week.

Any action which jeopardizes, or appears to jeopardize, people's livelihoods is something which deserves serious, calm, rational thought.

Sure, and having been taken (and it has), it deserves to hear just how much it's hurting/scaring/threatening everyone concerned.

Edit: Oh, and threatening to hurt someone is hurting them. It's not quite…

They're not hurt yet. They may not get hurt. There's a lot of fear around,…

But if you always put other people ahead of yourself when considering industrial action, you're almost never going to take it.

And I don't hear anyone suggesting that. This is a question of numbers and that explains my point that a counter petition might be illuminating. It matters how many…

Actually I disagree with this:

"If industrial action causes catastrophic damage to huge numbers of people, far in excess of the interested parties, it's not justified."

So do I, this is not a reason not to strike. It is however, a reason to make pretty damn sure that your strike…

Minister Chris Finlayson met husband and wife filmmakers Sir Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh at the Beehive this morning over the issue

They've been listening to you Craig!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10678126

So long as you use the phrase "at a reasonable level" without qualification, I can't argue. But I don't think the impact on others is ever a secondary concern.

They're all judgements. Yes the people who need to catch the bus are really inconvenienced by the bus not turning up.…

If "impacts upon others" stopped unions taking industrial action then industrial action would never happen. If it didn't adversely affect someone then it would just be ignored.

It's meant to mainly adversely affect the employer. In this case it'll have very little effect on the employer, in fact they may…

Well you called it principled first.

Actually that was Alec, and I was mocking it, comparing the principled stand to Custer at Little Bighorn.

I think it's self-interest, but as long as it's self-interest at a reasonable level, I think 'who gets impacted' is a secondary concern.

So long as…

It's not irrelevant just because "principles" are involved. That's a cop out, a way of hiding self-interest behind words.

Well you called it principled first. I think it's self-interest, but as long as it's self-interest at a reasonable level, I think 'who gets impacted' is a secondary concern.

If industrial action causes catastrophic damage to huge numbers of people, far in excess of the interested parties, it's not justified.

I' d say that if industrial action causes catastrophic damage to huge numbers of people, far in excess of the interested parties, it means…

If "impacts upon others" stopped unions taking industrial action then industrial action would never happen. If it didn't adversely affect someone then it would just be ignored.

There's an aspect of proportionality to all of this. If industrial action causes catastrophic damage to huge numbers of people, far in excess…

The actors' actions don't just affect themselves, they affects thousands of other NZers

I think the assumption is that actors supporting their union aren't fully aware and concerned about this.

It's always a prime concern of industrial action – how others are affected.

If "impacts upon others" stopped unions taking…

Yes, I am not arguing about that, but I was answering a post that asked how many actors vs. how many other parties – a sort-of demonstration of might being right?…

I'm interested for informational purposes. Who, how many, why, where are they? Helps to inform whether this alleged union is actually representing who they say they are.

But of limited value.

For every actor in the movie there's probably 10 crew who are getting nothing out of this dispute, except…

Ha ha, and thank you :))

Add up the participants in any film crew, and chances are, unless it's something with a cast of thousands (but remember, many of them will be doing it just for the hell of it, and going back to their day job), actors will always be totally outnumbered.

Isn't that exactly…

Life need not be predicated on the ‘tyranny’ of the majority, the ‘sharp end of the spear’ is often vindcated and embraced down the track.

I don't think the tyranny of the minority is an improvement.

but that should not negate Sir Jackson being called on to earn his knighthood and treat the serfs (not just the headliners) fairly.

No-one has actually been able to point to any specific 'unfairness' on Sir Peter of Jackson's part yet. That's a big part of the problem that's causing…

I'm not sure if "my petition is bigger than your petition" is particularly useful. When did principles become a popularity contest?

I'm interested for informational purposes. Who, how many, why, where are they? Helps to inform whether this alleged union is actually representing who they say they are.

Haven't looked at the petition myself, but had a chat with a rellie who worked on previous Jackson productions (and who is now very definitely not interested in being part of any more) and it would…

When did principles become a popularity contest?

Perhaps when the MEAA decided to single out The Hobbit on their blacklist?

If the rabble is 20 times the size of those making principled stands, where does that leave your principled stand? Somewhere near the Little Bighorn, I think.

I'm not sure if "my petition is bigger than your petition" is particularly useful. When did principles become a popularity contest?

Not me! An impostor! I'm nursing a badly broken ankle, and won't be venturing out of D-D-S? (only from passing big trucks on Rosebank Rd) Avondale for a few weeks yet. But gosh Ian, you do get around on the web. You're a star!

aaah…

Well there are a few names you will never see on that list!

How about you make your own list, then compare sizes? If the rabble is 20 times the size of those making principled stands, where does that leave your principled stand? Somewhere near the Little Bighorn, I think.

And there is a roll of what I predict will be termed, dishonour, in the near future at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/nzhobbit/petition.html which confirms that some generally liberal people have lost the plot on this one.

It's starting to just look like a general roll-call of the industry, man. The plot is simple…

With respect, Russell, Capital has no interest in trade unions. Which is to say, it yearns always to get back to the days of sweated labour.

As Peter said, I meant in terms of public perception.

But I'd be interested in your thoughts on the real issue behind this, which…

Somewhere along the way reason and reality need to be considered.

The union is not an end in itself.

Not me! An impostor! I'm nursing a…

I'll say this very slowly and for the last time.

Thats fine, and I agree...

All I meant was that I saw or heard a different report on the same meeting, that mentioned names only, and concluded (incorrectly?) it was a different person being referred to. I thought actors equity…

Sir Peter, accompanied by his wife Fran Walsh, talked with Mr Brownlee in a closed meeting inside the Minister’s office.

You're right, that is total B.S.

What is she there for, to bring the cookies she baked that morning?

I personally think of her as a voice, having listened to her give hours of director's commentary on LOTR, in which it became pretty clear…

http://www.3news.co.nz/Hobbit-announcement-expected-by-Friday/tabid/418/articleID/179556/Default.aspx

It's not clear from that article if the announcement is about the dispute, or whether the film is going to shoot in NZ.

I have a question for any legal minds out there. What is to stop Actors agents from referring to…

but in this case I think it's relevant....

I'll say this very slowly and for the last time.

Fran Walsh is the co-writer and an executive producer on The Hobbit. IIRC, she's also a director and full partner in Three Foot Seven Ltd.

Could we do Walsh the courtesy of…

I think this is actually going to damage the trade union movement.

I think he means in terms of public perception, and the accompanying political clout that goes along with that.

I think this is actually going to damage the trade union movement.

With respect, Russell, Capital has no interest in trade unions. Which is to say, it yearns always to get back to the days of sweated labour. It is a highly effective opponent, with friends in high places and…

I presume David was referring to this:

Cool ..... a tasty bit of NZ union and TV history I had not connected with prior to stumbling upon your link

... I'll put it in my pocket.

I presume David was referring to this:

aaah! thanks for that, those were the days...

Commonsense is getting as scarce as Helium these days – and WTF with India wasting all that Helium on "the world's biggest Helium balloon" at their Commonwealth Games opening – now there's something Paul Holmes could…

Well, they might have been trying to avoid the mix up with Frances Walsh of Actor's Equity.

Which could have been done perfectly well with "three-time Oscar-winning writer and producer" or most relevantly "Hobbit executive producer and co-writer". I'm also pretty damn sure Frances Walsh would not appreciate having her…

The conversation which would win Edwards lasting fame occurred in September 1970. Post office workers were on a go-slow in a bid for higher wages, and communication between unions and managers had completely broken down. Gallery got representatives of both sides into the…

Well, they might have been trying to avoid the mix up with Frances Walsh of Actor's Equity.

I think 'triple Academy Award Winner' would still have pretty much covered off that one too ...

WTF does Fran Walsh's marital status have to do with anything beside gratuitous and and patronising sexism?

Well, they might have been trying to avoid the mix up with Frances Walsh of Actor's Equity.

A bit of a bummer when "triple Academy Award winner" is not enough for independent identity, huh?

Two Words: Kathryn Bigelow.

Is the universe trying trying to tell us something other than "get in the kitchen and cook me some eggs, Carol Ferris"?

but, but, the Green Lantern's ring doesn't work
on yellow objects (or wood!)

B.E.M.s, Cthulhu and other elder gods...
What is a ...

'Brian…

and his film-maker wife

A bit of a bummer when "triple Academy Award winner" is not enough for independent identity, huh?

You know something that really pissed me off about that story.

Good call Craig. Producer & writer of some of the most successful movies ever, and she also did the horrendous screeching sound of the Nazgul.

Also: Key happy to facilitate in Hobbit role.

You know something that really pissed me off about that story.

Council of Trade Unions president Helen Kelly also declined to confirm the report but had met Sir Peter and his film-maker wife, Fran Walsh...

{Emphasis added}

WTF does Fran Walsh's marital…

A letter from Bilbo Baggins:

It’s great to be back in the Lonely Mountain. Our team is getting stuck into the hard work, delivering on our promise of a brighter future for Dwarves (and this Hobbit) – and making the Lonely Mountain a place…

Was deepest, darkest, shaky Avondale
sans-a-PASer for the weekend?,

Yes, I was busy. Oh....you were talking about Jacqui :-0

Much though I absolutely loved the Tolkien books and was a total fan of Jackson's adaptions, and would go so far as to say that their production was a contributing factor…

Protectors of peace and justice, they are called the Green Lantern Corps.

OTOH, Temuera Morrison did a pretty shitty job defending the Galactic Republic in the trilogy we do not speak of, and Abin Sur has to die pretty sharpish. Is the universe trying trying to tell us something other…

Galling though it may be to the habitués on this forum, the dispute won't be brokered on these pages

The odd kerfuffle aside, the general forum support for being able to respectfully disagree within the forum, and the diverse contributers adding their voice, I'd say this forum is more likely…

Also: Key happy to facilitate in Hobbit role.

Oh... can't you just picture it? We need Lyndon on this, stat.

If "The Hobbit" ( all two films, most of which will not be based on Tolkien's work) fell over-

Except for one of the two films which will be entirely based on his work, and the second which will be largely based on his work.

Also: [[http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/4193178/Key-happy-to-facilitate-in-Hobbit-role|Key happy to facilitate…

Hobbit, chewy...

Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew

Green Lantern
Release Date: June 17th, 2011 – Warner Bros.
In a universe as vast as it is mysterious, a small but powerful force has existed for centuries. Protectors…

I suspect we'll get over it

Speak for yourself — I'm shocked and outraged that PAS isn't the crowdsourced ruler of the universe. Grovel in the dust, worms, before WE release the crimson tide of bad puns, smut, five hundred page threads of non sequuntur and You Tube videos of…

Galling though it may be to the habitués on this forum, the dispute won't be brokered on these pages

I suspect we'll get over it – and "habitués" is a nice word, thanks

[eyes narrow]
Did someone say COPYRIGHT ??

dun dun dun dun dun dun dun....

...some empanelled experts strip away the veneer, in a new graphic novel Theft: A history of Musical borrowing from Plato to Hip Hop – from this article – and as they say "Comic…

1632. Jemaine Clement – Brett needs a movie gig

Boyens: right now in the US, Warner accountants are "running the numbers on five to six locations" for The Hobbit.

Equity "thought it was a game" and "did not understand the consequences of their actions".

Put your fingers in your ears, Mick, but WTF? How could Equity be so damn…

Equity "thought it was a game" and "did not understand the consequences of their actions".

Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Australia, Eastern Europe, all began lobbying to get the production as soon…

There has been much that has been unhelpful in this standoff, including, I'd argue, much of the commentary posted on this site (15 pages so far), a good portion of which has been simply noise and indignant WTFing.

Mick, it's a discussion forum. We discuss things.

But I do appreciate…

While I support the actors in spirit (their cause has been somewhat distorted in the popular press) this boycott is a regrettable strategy that undermines itself with its own cynicism. Why, one may ask, was there…

There's a lot of other people who stand to lose as well – non-film related industries also gain economic benefit from major productions, e.g. accommodation, hospitality, taxi drivers...

as has just happened in Chch with the cancelling
of both the Writers and Body (Dance)…

I understand your frustration at Equity's sometimes haphazard communication but you might like to reflect on the vastly different resources available to the parties to this conflict and the differing mechanisms by which decisions are made.

@Mick: With all due (and sincere) respect, you should be fucking outraged that your…

. . . do I want to see an industry that employs thousands of people collapse (and have them going on the dole)? No I don't, and don't see that helping our public services either.

I think you've already made that pretty plain. Industries always collapse locally when they go…

There has been much that has been unhelpful in this standoff, including, I'd argue, much of the commentary posted on this site (15 pages so far), a good portion of which has been simply noise and indignant WTFing.

I understand your frustration at Equity's sometimes haphazard communication but you…

(how's my Ranapia channelling)

Not bad, my little Padiwan-learner. :)

If "The Hobbit" ( all two films, most of which will not be based on Tolkien's work) fell over-

who truly loses?

I've never been a unqualified fan of things like the Large Budget Screen Production Grant Scheme, and I…

It all mounts up, especially in…

If "The Hobbit" ( all two films, most of which will not be based on Tolkien's work) fell over-

who truly loses?

A lot of people who practice film-related crafts, especially in Wellington. They would stand to lose a lot.

... In light of that, it's a little hard to get worked up over the fate of The Hobbit.

Do I think we need fully effective public health for all? I 100% do.

But do I want to see an industry that employs thousands of people collapse (and have them…

Well, we've put more money into district health boards this year, and we've put more money in last year, so they are getting a generous increase.

…

I understand that you are looking for a reason to justify your anti-union position in this affair but frankly trying to imply the unions or even the labour party would agree with your view on this does you no favours.

Could you invite…

who truly loses?

I'd love to see actual figures...

... this project is clearly at an achingly delicate point.

I've also heard from a reliable source that now that The Hobbit is 'on the market' — potentially looking around for a 'film friendly' home to shoot in — the studio is being aggressively courted by nations that would be…

The employability ethic and the decline of union density in New Zealand

Please note that I am pro-union and wrote this essay in an effort…

Correction: I've just heard from a reliable source that SPADA extended an invitation to meet Friday evening and have heard nothing from Equity all weekend ...

Ball is falling more and more roundly in their court ... and they won't play.

People. Just get in a position you can call…

Hobbit deal near with unions, studios – report

Not quite what the following NZPA story — or the anonymously sourced LA Times story — said. Never mind...

Sorry, didn't mean to imply I was talking about the same story.

(ps didn't like the earlier version of that one so much ;))

Seeing as everyone missed the vital line in the link I posted yesterday...

@Peter: I didn't say anything in the hope that local media would get around to reading the story they're citing:

The one remaining hurdle is getting an official go-ahead from MGM, which for more than a year…

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyid=183377

And, as Craig has noted, for goodness sake get your legal status together.

To be fair, JWL did say on The Nation that their registration should be sorted out by "the end of the week". But by Gimli's left nut, bitch, that it lapsed in the first place wasn't an…

After all, anyone can play dress-up

Eyeliner

GOD SAVE us from actors and artists! There are no sane actors – only varying degrees of personality disorders that…

Worth a read. Found this bit interesting:

Well, yeah. But I don't think a complete reversal of the way the whole screen industry operates (with significant legal implications) is a useful condition for agreeing to talks.

It screamed out for a constructive approach. First, actually do something for your members…

It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that I was actually offended, and thus, sensibly I think, took my leave of the situation.

That's because people like Irishbill tend to regard others' motivations as similar to their own.

Hobbit Battling on

Worth a read. Found this bit interesting:

NZ Actor's Equity organiser Frances Walsh said the union had been trying to negotiate a standard industry contract with Spada for 18 months, to replace current non-binding guidelines for actors, but the association had refused, offering only to renegotiate the…

and for Craig Parker to be plated in gold.

I thought Peter Jackson took care of that with his costume in Fellowship of the Ring.

There is no question that the Equity Organiser is getting paid, and its a legitimate question to ask where that money coming from

Why? Seriously,…

That in itself seems like a victory for common sense.

And judging from Ward-Lealand's performance on The Nation this morning, it looks like Equity is actually getting focused and closer to reality-based. Certainly from a sheer PR point of view, it was certainly more useful, and vastly helped by Sean…

I guess, it’s easy to leave in faux offence than engage in the argument. It’s a shame.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that I was actually offended, and thus, sensibly I think, took my leave of the situation.

Die die die did the business as well, kind of like Bailter Space sped from 33 to 45, or maybe 78 even. Nice one.

The lads are certainly on form.

Media advisory re The Hobbit

Helen Kelly, CTU President has met with Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh and we are…

I really doubt most working writers, musicians or artists would have the time, energy or expertise to start and manage a union from scratch.

There is a musicians union, it is part of the Service & Food Workers Union. I rang them once to see if I should join....they didn't seem…

aww... I liked the earlier version.

David prefers I get the irritability of my system on-line. So does the neighbour's dog. :)

Ending with

Still, I guess you should just accept the upgrade from class traitor to potential useful idiot."

actually made me hurt myself from laughing.

I guess, it’s easy to leave in faux offence than engage in the argument. It’s a shame I’ll never get to know what you think about the employment issue at the heart of this dispute.

IrishBill would have gotten some clue if he'd bothered reading (or accurately…

And it's a little rich of IrishBill to say that, when his response to Russell deciding he wasn't going to hang around to be abused for class treason was a snide little bitch about "refusing to engage". Wonder why...

Did he? Good grief.

Media advisory re The Hobbit
 
Helen Kelly, CTU President has met with Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh and we are hopeful that a meaningful dialogue between Equity, SPADA, and Three Foot Seven can be established.
 
Ends.

Hooray!

Still a rock and…

Media advisory re The Hobbit

Thank you, Helen

You may also want to talk to people with online influence who should be natural allies such as Russell Brown.

And it's a little rich of IrishBill to say that, when his response to Russell deciding he wasn't going to hang around to be abused for class treason was a…

So, Craig – the creative sector goes – where?
(I pay dues to NZSA.)

That's a fair point – I really doubt most working writers, musicians or artists would have the time, energy or expertise to start and manage a union from scratch. Let alone develop the contacts and expertise…

Do you *seriously* think this momentary artsy thing is going to damage *the trade union movement*? Because I think the trade union movement is already so compromised & damaged that it is almost dead.

Honestly, I don't give a rodent's rear end about "the union movement" — but the creative sector…

Do you *seriously* think this momentary artsy thing is going to damage *the trade union movement*? Because I think the trade union movement is already so compromised & damaged that it…

They retain copyright of the music – so if you buy the soundtrack on disc the composer makes money, not the production company (usually).

I would think that Warners would have the rights to release any music composed for The Hobbit. Release 'options' have been in every composer contract I…

OK, who talked IrishBill round?

I think the union movement might be starting to get how badly misconceived this strategy has been. Most of what he says is good advice.

It's just a shame he didn't have a more reasoned view of it two or three days ago.

I think…

But that is his intrinsic delight – blood & things that go bang. Splatterdom.

Which is why I…

You may also want to talk to people with online influence who should be natural allies such as Russell Brown.

an excerpt from Never say there and back again;
A Hobbit's tale:
"...Bilbo Bond slipped the ring on his goldfinger
and, to the bewilderment of the circling SMERSH orcs, winked out of sight.
With the familiar heft of…

We are all over that kind of stuff, right?

(Rushes off to exchange fluffy suit for impregnable scales.)

Did someone say COPYRIGHT ???

aren't we all well-behaved about it now

Boycott leads to union president fronting on national television and feeding us this line "Peter Jackson does not know what we want"

been bothering me all day

I'm just connecting two facts....
Whatever happens you can be sure of this: Any time someone says it's not about the money: its always about the money.

Innit.

Don't let's get too excited. He's not paying them $5000 a week for 52 weeks of the year.

And who said they were? I'm perfectly well aware that Jennifer Ward-Lealand and the rest of the cast of ATC's (splendid) production of August: Osage County weren't getting paid minimum wage for…

I'm just connecting two facts.
There is no question that the Equity Organiser is getting paid, and its a legitimate question to ask where that money coming from, and whether that explains why such an active organisation as NZ Equity let its legal status lapse?…

commenting in the dark, I mean?

Ok then,imho,
what JWL seems to be saying to the public at large is ,it's not about the money , it's not a call for a boycott, it's a request to the Actors (that has now grown into the "entire industry") to hold off…

Suddenly it doesn't look like ineptitude, but dirty tricks.

Michael – are you just making stuff up here, or do you have some actual evidence to point to?

It's disappointing that Mune should be commenting when he genuinely doesn't seem to know much about the dispute.

Who isn't at the moment – commenting in the dark, I mean?

I thought this "third world conditions" thing had been put to bed when Peter Jackson revealed they were being offered around $5000 a week.

Don't let's get too excited. He's not paying them $5000 a week for 52 weeks of the year. And do they residuals? If so, how much?…

dun dun dun dun dun dun dun....

But are they doing the talking? Does anyone know?

The mere thought of Gerry Brownlee 'suggesting' a course of action is a true worry.

Particularly given that he has dictatorial power under the Canterbury Enabling Act.

MEAA needs to talk to Spada.

Am I the only one wondering if Kiwi actors would be better served if anyone but the MEAA was doing the talking? FFS, they seem to know nothing about the industrial landscape here, and care even less.

All reasonable things to ask for.

Quite possibly — but I don't think Russell is saying it was unreasonable, just that the timing was dumb as a sack of hammers.

Actually, I was a bit wrong on the timing. It was during season five. So the money was well and…

But perhaps the reason why NZ equity has not been filing returns (and subsequently struck off) is due to the fact that they are being bankrolled by the Australian union. If they filed returns they would have to show a…

Combine that with the fact that they have let their legal status in NZ lapse and I think you have a clear case of Australian interference in the NZ industry.

The Underarm with clapsticks, methinks?

Also, am I missing something, or is this article getting people confused: "NZ Actors Equity organiser Frances Walsh told NZPA." ??

Thats not a mistake; they have the same name. Frances used to be a journalist for Metro. She took the job soon after she left. As far as I…

Urban myth I think. Barney wasn't running SPP back then. SPP…

Also, am I missing something, or is this…

As far as I'm aware, Shore doesn't hold the copyright over his film work let alone receive residuals. And IIRC, he quit King Kong under similar clrcumstances to Michael Nyman's falling out with Peter Greenaway.

Actually composer usually only sell the synchronization rights – which are the rights to put…

The Gloss deal was legendarily insane. I think it called for everyone to pretty much be paid all over again if it was re-screened, and for Craig Parker to be plated in gold.

Ahh the good old days, is it still legal to gold plate gays?
Lets hope that doesnt…

I once worked with a couple of actors who'd delight in repeats of The Bill — another little bit of cash from their bit parts.

IIRC, Mike Sengelow had a minor role in that show as – get this – an Aussie overstayer.

Irrespective of whatever side of the fence…

All reasonable things to ask for.

Quite possibly — but I don't think Russell is saying it was unreasonable, just that the timing was dumb as a sack of hammers. Who knows, perhaps this kind of strategy works in Australia but it sure didn't here. If this is how the…

It's probably worth noting that MEAA has previously employed eye-watering bad strategy in trying to get more money for Outrageous Fortune actors.

And it was over things like ringtones – exploitation of likeness and performance in new, previously unforeseen, media. All reasonable things to ask for.

Agreed, Simon, but how many of those contractors – not actors, but others – would be recognized every time a film was shown?

Well, you might want to ask composer Howard Shore that — who had a very distinctive (and distinguished) career long before Lord of the Rings. Just because…

Crumbs, my mother still gets the odd cheque for acting work she did thirty years ago (Rumpole of the Bailey released on DVD – another payment). Perfectly reasonable.

I once worked with a couple of actors who'd delight in repeats of The Bill — another little bit of cash from…

Interestingly, I understand that John Barnett is partially responsible for the lack of residuals in NZ as they were traded away in favour of increased up front fees back in the early 90s when actors were negotiating with SPP.

Enter John Barnett, Stage left

Also, are you suggesting that actors are being cheeky worldwide, demanding residuals?

Many creative contractors restrict the use of their work and negotiate further payment for further (often unforeseen) uses. It's entirely reasonable to expect further payments when a work is used in future editions or formats (or territories if…

Yes, for a time perhaps. It's when the same actor appears in the next umpteen NZ productions, and the audience starts…

Real estate agents . . .

I recall John Clarke saying that, unlike actors, appearance isn't important for real estate agents, though it wouldn't hurt to have gold teeth and laugh lines around your pockets.

But as far as I can tell, both the Pink and Blue Books are almost universally adhered to. They're not vague guidelines either — they even stipulate unglamorous stuff like mileage rates.

I have alot of friends who are Actors and a very good friend who is a top agent…

Real estate agents are self-employed, GST registered, claim expenses against income etc but…

For example, having been a principal cast member in a successful show such as OF, makes an actor…

The important point to remember is that the pink book is not legally enforcable, it's a set of guidelines and standards.

But as far as I can tell, both the Pink and Blue Books are almost universally adhered to. They're not vague guidelines either — they even stipulate unglamorous stuff…

http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/mgm-and-warner-near-on-deal-for-hobbit-films/?emc=eta1

(nice that this is my 100th post ;))

I must say my view on this has hardened a lot since I read Frances Walsh's comments on the Herald site yesterday.

Well, yes... Like you (I think it's fair to say), my instincts are to back the actors, but it's been impossible to ignore the high levels of "truthiness",…

It’s a tricky situation down there, those in the tent making the deal need to be mindful that the agreement they make will also apply here in Auckland. Our industry is quite different, we are not a company…