http://www.steganos.com/us/products/secure-surfing/internet-anonym-vpn/features/

I haven't had time to check it out so if anyone does and wants to elaborate on…

Sorry Sofie. I blame the waterproof keyboard and the bhang. In combination, lethal sentences.

zztsfine. I'm still trying to figure out FYC.:)

but for Jesus, that was his one thing, his whole repetoire.. now he's just like FYC if 'she drive's me crazy' had been a cover. Damn I believed in that guy. Solid evidence he wouldn't have supported S92a

BC 551-479, Chinese Ethical Teacher, Philosopher

is western spitirual culture just another mp3?

Double plus good.Colloquial English will be fine thank you or am I from some forbidden planet?

Oh and, maybe Darwin.
Or, God forbid, the MPPA?

Interesting thing is reading some confuscious today, and how old Jesus and the christian faith has 'one hell' of a law suit looming if China ever decides to take copyright seriously.

Don't complain about the snow on your neighbor's roof when…

God forbid,

Wha' Is that 92a?

"the music producing computer has a rather stylized left hand"

the dates tally, so I'd say tripping, the last of the labrats

Between the years 1947 and 1963, CIA and Army scientists examined, tested, and in some cases refined every drug...

http://mindmined.com/public_library/nonfiction/jessica_locke_del_greco_LSD_research.html

DAI..SY DAI...SY give me your answer...do....

Yeah but no but hey but. What's with the baby in the bubble and does it have a Baboon heart?
And now how much do I owe Kubrick & Simon ?

sorry, the link from the link

So,what's with the ol' guy.Is he tripping or jus eatin'? Reminds me of my favourite Uncle :))

http://kottke.org/06/04/hal-daisy-2001

MP3s are inferior to vinyl.

mp3s are inferior to wax recordings. it's just not the product.

It would be different if truly innocent people are included, as was (sort of) the case with people who owned iPods before the format shifting laws,

I'd say that is alot of us.No intention to be a bad ass, all the consideration for artists, Just don't care about the hoopla,…

My point is that, some will contend, MP3s are inferior to vinyl

There's naught contend about it.

But if it's on vinyl, well...

well, you and I do still buy it, and it's my format of choice

That cuts to one of my earlier posts (on that other thread) Added value. Even if you download a…

It’s hard to believe, but true: under a law Congress passed last year aimed at regulating hazards in children’s products, the federal government has now advised that children’s books published before 1985 should not be considered…

We were lucky enough to get Peter Jenner on Media7 last year. He's a major proponent of what he calls the "music access charge".

And?

They did a similar thing a few years back when RIANZ touted the number of blank CDs being sold in NZ every day as lost…

What kind of fool am I?

A twit , prehaps?

because I'm the wall with fatigue and stress at the moment.

I hope it passes, RB, soon.

Yes, Bruce Sterling is great.

And as epigrammatic as you like. I've just tweeted 17 separate killer lines from his speech.

What kind of fool am I?

This has been a truly fascinating discussion, thanks to all.

Indeed. And thanks for moving it past the earlier unpleasantness, which I found quite upsetting, possibly because I'm the wall with fatigue and stress at the moment.

Fortunately, my hotel room has a GIANT bathtub, and I'm filling it. The…

(there's only two right)

I can't tell if that's a serious question or if You've Got To Hear The Music has been disowned a la Blow.

And streaming services are all very well, but whatever happened to iTunes bundling unlimited downloads?

Doesn't Last.fm already do a lot of that but without the cost or the adverts? Pretty sure you can click on artists, albums or get it do you up your own 'sounds like' playlist

The tech buffs will be able to help but I think this is quite a leap…

Maybe $10 a month on broadband that gives you indemnity to share anything you can find, with the revenue distributed in an NZ on Air type fashion.

s/recorded music/retail sales of recorded music

and also with specific reference to local artists. If you're Coldplay or whoever then even a much reduced income from CDs is still a lot of money.

Doesn't Last.fm already do a lot of that but without the cost or the adverts? Pretty sure you can click on artists, albums or get it do you up your own 'sounds like' playlist.

@Rob, it was the mention of Dimmer for me ... my entirely legal copies of the two albums (there's only two right) have kept me happy the last few hours... (everytime I hear "you want to believe your own scrapbook" I think of John Key, that's ok yeah?)

Also the heading on the thread must be…

Premium only in Australia too. How's it work.

Here you go

Lefstez is also up now in full

Dunno if Spotify works in NZ (here in SEA it's only a premium service to date) but it has legs as a concept, assuming, and this is a big one for much of the world, that we all have high speed broadband

Premium only in Australia too. How's it work.…

On s92a, I just feel that as a general principle, if you have a business model that isn't working, you shouldn't be entitled to have the government change the law and crush peoples rights in order to shore that model up.

I don't mind things changing. In fact I think…

suck it up, cut their costs and accept that nobody is going to get rich from recorded music any more

Not even close to true. Do you know how money you can generate simply from the performance fees on a medium sized international track? Or how much someone like Coldplay…

The problem I have with it is that it will never be enough for the industry that thinks it is missing out on revenue, and that it doesn't fix the principle problem of the broken business model that will continue to see a downturn in sales.

Bob Lefsetz is unusally…

My biggest problem with it. If you want a law that is only applicable to hard-core…

That episode of The Muppet Show I kept (Elton John singing 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' with the Electric Mayhem) is cause for prosecution?

Possibly on other grounds.. :)

When perfectly reasonable objections are raised you get the "why do hate puppies, flowers and laughing babies?" line

Boy does Emma have just the thread for you..

Of course, this does go on a lot -…

Something like that would need a resource consent.

Ah, National's speeding that up. As long as you can call it vital infrastructure, you could lynch by sundown.

However, I've reluctantly come round to the position that hanging them in gibbets at the side of the road is probably not a good idea.

Agreed. Something like that would need a resource consent.

Perhaps I'm missing something that Legal Beagle can correct me on, but is it really the judiciary's place to try and make sense of things the acutal legislators were too stupid and/or lazy and/or spineless to get right in the first place?

For better or worse, yes. A lot of…

We were lucky enough to get Peter Jenner on Media7 last year. He's a major proponent of what he calls the "music access charge".

The problem I have with it is that it will never be enough for the industry that thinks it is missing out on revenue, and that…

They did a similar thing a few years back when RIANZ touted the number of blank CDs being sold in NZ every day as lost sales.

Sounds like the argument waged by Universal Pictures during the Betamax case of 1983.

That episode of The Muppet Show I kept (Elton John singing 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' with the Electric Mayhem) is cause for prosecution?

If the police asks, all those films I brought from Italy on VHS, it's just that I haven't found the time to watch them yet. It's been…

Leave something on the MySky after watching it

You're shitting me. That episode of The Muppet Show I kept (Elton John singing 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' with the Electric Mayhem) is cause for prosecution?

It would be different if truly innocent people are included, as was (sort of) the case with people who owned iPods before the format shifting laws, or anyone who ever recorded something off TV onto a VHS.

Most of us still break the format-shifting and TV recording rules. Leave something…

And is there such a thing as reverse blackout bingo? This page is a winner so far

Ben, please don't be so facile. I mentioned before that my avatar is the new black. Pay attention.

Can a NZ ISP look at your internet traffic?

Is it going to be possible for an ISP to check your traffic? Is this already covered in an ISPs terms of service?

is it really the judiciary's place to try and make sense of things the acutal legislators were too stupid and/or lazy and/or spineless to get right in the first place?

Am I legal beagle? Awesome, beats my other nickname, w***stain

And the answer is, kinda, yeah, that's pretty much a…

so why don't they just focus on prosecuting these people like they've been able to do under the Copyright Act for a while now (haven't they?) rather than snipping their broadband wires...

Part of the reason is that the industry has talking itself into believing many of the ludicrous claims…

Not so keen on using hydraulic pile drivers to crack nuts, though.

I'm soooo stealing that line, and your cheque is not in the mail. Sorry, Rich! :)

My biggest problem with it. If you want a law that is only applicable to hard-core pirates, then make a law that is only going to be applicable to hard-core pirates, not every single person in the country.

The same argument was made in the UK in relation to anti-terror…

I'll also state, for the record, that I am strongly in favour of prosecutionfor hardcore piracy.

Yup. And as the music industry players themselves know, shuffling pirates from one ISP to another isn't going to achieve a hell of a lot, so why don't they just focus on prosecuting these…

Hear, hear. I believe this is one of the strongest arguments, and the one proponents of s92a are trying to fudge around with the whole "so you're in favour of piracy, then?" red herring.

I'll also state, for the record, that I am strongly in favour of prosecution for hardcore…

I know it's a flawed, emotional way of thinking, but the reality is that if I"m faced with paying $35 for a CD more or less indistinguishable from the ones that litter the floor of my office, I'd rather download the shit illegally. But if it's on vinyl, well...

well,…

A small levy on all internet connections would seem to be a better solution than to criminalise, almost, anybody.

We were lucky enough to get Peter Jenner on Media7 last year. He's a major proponent of what he calls the "music access charge".

My biggest problem with it. If you want a law that is only applicable to hard-core pirates, then make a law that is only going to be applicable to hard-core pirates, not every single person in the country.

Hear, hear. I believe this is one of the strongest arguments, and…

Which isn't to say that I think "it won't happen to reasonable people" is a good argument for that law change. I also – and I acknowledge that I am far, far away – don't recall hearing it.

I think the argument that got used (I certainly used it) for…

>"Of course not, this'll only be applied to hard-core pirates".

My biggest problem with it. If you want a law that is only applicable to hard-core pirates, then make a law that is only going to be applicable to hard-core pirates, not every single person in the country.

The same…

Can I suggest it would take a bit longer than 10 minutes to locate,said interlocutor user also:)

So long as I get the 15c they owe me, it's worth the time.

WHERE IS MY EDIT BUTTON DAMNIT.

Hollywood is not.

Big market here for a new player.... PirateNet anyone?

Well, given the growing peer to peer nature of what we currently call the internet it is not at all beyond the realms of possibility that such a provider springs up and is based overseas.

That's why basing legislation round a…

I've heard it explicitly, but implicitly it's there when talking about the 'will watching a YouTube video be a breach' examples – supporters of s92A will say "Of course not, this'll only be applied to hard-core pirates".

Sure. I meant that I never heard it about the repeal of s59.…

That'll teach you to use my word.

Can I suggest it would take a bit longer than 10 minutes to locate,said interlocutor user also:)

If all these refusals fall through, I've got you on a hook for at least the 10 minutes it takes you to find another ISP.

Big market here for a new player.... PirateNet anyone?

I also – and I acknowledge that I am far, far away – don't recall hearing it.

I've heard it explicitly, but implicitly it's there when talking about the 'will watching a YouTube video be a breach' examples – supporters of s92A will say "Of course not, this'll only be…

I just want to make interlocutor my word of the month, that's all :)

Hey, I'll s92a u if you try it. All I have to do is demand Russell provide me with your IP (which he can refuse, or not even know), then I can approach your ISP to…

Is the distinction that in one case the discretion lies with the police, in the other, with I guess an ISP or rights-holder? Guess so.

It's a bit more than that. The discretion to prosecute lies with the police, and then due process kicks in. They don't get to immediately…

Also, just to throw a little more red meat into the lion's den here, isn't the "it'll never happen to reasonable people" argument that most here are decrying, exactly the argument pretty much the same people used to support the anti-smacking law?

Is the distinction that in one case the…

Also, just to throw a little more red meat into the lion's den here, isn't the "it'll never happen to reasonable people" argument that most here are decrying, exactly the argument pretty much the same people used to support the anti-smacking law?

Is the distinction that in one case the…

Yes, you've repeatedly taken a maximalist copyright position, while occasionally admitting that you personally make illicit downloads of copyright material. And on this basis, you've attacked me personally as a hypocrite.

Go figure.

I can't; I can't figure out Robery at all. I'd guessed, though, that there's more to his…

Say what?

I just want to make interlocutor my word of the month, that's all :)

Is the distinction that in one case the…

South Pacific Pictures managing director John Barnett backs anti-piracy moves – he lost out dearly from pirated copies of the movie Sione's Wedding – though not on the internet.

Damian, people on the web side of the argument feel very strongly about that point. Sad gits or not, they tend to regard connectivity as the stuff of life./

Heh, yes, I was thinking that when I wrote actually – which would Russell rather face, a year in jail or…

]]> Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:52:23 +1300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-high-noon/?p=94707#post94707 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-high-noon/?p=94707#post94707

Top use of vocabulary, that man

Say what?

play out in the next few weeks when this law is active but with no code of practice

Unless I've read it wrong, this law does not say a code of practice is compulsory – it just happens to be the response of one group of affected stakeholders to meeting…

Sad gits or not, they tend to regard connectivity as the stuff of life.

Well, nowadays this is more and more true. Much of our comms infrastructure is based on IP. There are even power co.'s that will give you internet connectivity down the power line. Things do get interesting…

However, it's a fair point for Russ to point out that s92A allows a harsher punishment than a court has handed out for copyright infringement, which I think is what he meant when talking the Hocquard.

Yes that was my point. Obviously the child-porn comparison got misunderstood and was therefore…

I've heard you say this a bit Russell, including with Chris, and I've got to say that out of all the arguments against s92A, this one seems to me like a bit of a straw man, or maybe just irrelevant.

Russ can speak for himself but I don't think this…

interlocutor

Top use of vocabulary, that man.

I've stated my personal stance at length.

Yes, you've repeatedly taken a maximalist copyright position, while occasionally admitting that you personally make illicit downloads of copyright material. And on this basis, you've attacked me personally as a hypocrite.

Go figure.

But I'm not trying to be a high level spokesperson…

I'm also of the mind that it's not reasonable that 92A mandates a penalty — disconnect from the internet — that no court or tribunal would.

I've heard you say this a bit Russell, including with Chris, and I've got to say that out of all the arguments against s92A,…

But what's you personal stance

I've stated my personal stance at length.
But I'm not trying to be a high level spokesperson on this and I'm not trying to stir up a movement of people to fight against a law that doesn't even have a finished code of practice yet.…

The change in political interest it is largely due to the CFF efforts in getting the issue noticed by a wider audience.

either way it's welcome.

The funny thing is that I'm going to stand up tomorrow morning in front of a hall full of webby people and say, don't…

I value Russell's input and contacts on this

Not just Russell's, I assure you.

I am not saying the TCF members aren't lobbying. Of course they are. But they and many of us taking a traditional advocacy and political route have been spectacularly unsuccessful over a period of at least…

The funny thing is that I'm going to stand up tomorrow morning in front of a hall full of webby people and say, don't write these music people off and don't be polarised. I'm quite clear on the principles behind my stance on this…

In which case, to echo Russell, he is out of touch. Nothing wrong with that but let's kick that particular claim to touch.

I don't know that either way. I value Russell's input and contacts on this, but to be honest, I'm also aware of Chris' network, which is equally…

But my experience of the man (and it's extensive) is that he's brutally honest and I'd be surprised if deviously tossing another bogeyman into the mix is in character. He speaks his mind.

Also, he's a hard-nosed lawyer. That's fine. He'd have gone wild if he'd had a client on…

the total cost to the music industry was $11,440,939,650,000!

At this stage an honourable man would withdraw and apologise.

Calculations are here (if you refuse to take my word for it):…

"Repeat infringer" in the DMCA is a term that was not defined in the law itself, and remains contentious here in the United States. Legal experts like David Nimmer have argued that "repeat infringer" means what it…

But my experience of the man (and it's extensive) is that he's brutally honest and I'd be surprised if deviously tossing another bogeyman into the mix is in character. He speaks his mind.

In which case, to echo Russell, he is out of touch. Nothing wrong with that but let's…

He also got you to say you don't have a problem with the concept downloading is illegal. you clearly answered no you don't.

To the extent that it would permit a claim of an infringing copy in civil law, no I don't. That right exists for a reason. Reasonable people…

Then came Napster and it’s aftermath. It was the beginning of an extended period where the largely faceless automatons who now controlled the shrinking number of labels decided to not only bite, but quite…

I'd have had time to lead Chris to a logical conclusion.

you flounder a few times and I only hope this is because you were concentrating on driving safely while using your mobile phone and you better have been using hands free.
But essentially Chris lead you to a logical…

Then again, the NZ industry is so small that not having substantive conflicts of interest is the exception.

True, and there's nothing inherently wrong with having a conflict, as long as it's disclosed.

Okay, I'll leave it there too

But it's not the first time he's made representations on this as "an entertainment lawyer" and never once mentioned any pecuniary interest that he might conceivably have due to ownership of Amplifier.

Just as an aside his was quite clear in his role as owner of Amplifier when on Nat…

Remind me not to have a dinner party ...

Nah, just make sure everything can be eaten through a straw (I was going to say "with a spoon" but do you know how much damage those puppies can do?) ;-)

But he did immediately jump down my throat, and what…

Where did that figure come from?

I agree, and my feeling is that none of that sort of bluster helps anyone, least of all the labels and the musicians. Then again I think that none of what is happening in NZ right now is helpful at all in the bigger…

outlines a fair process parties must go through before any action is taken

"Any action"? But the law says the action will be terminating the connection, not some menu of other options. Disingenous.

And if Amplifier is not at least breaking even, he'd be a bad business man to keep it going.

Sometimes Mark, esp. in the music industry, we do things for other reasons than making money. Amplifier is such a project. It's long been subsidised by Chris' work as a lawyer.…

And if Amplifier…

Recording Industry Association CEO Campbell Smith says they are making good progress with ISPs in their quest to create a code, which outlines a fair process parties must go through before any action is…

Right. Chris is a good guy, and a friend, and the discussion was vigorous but never nasty.

But he did immediately jump down my throat, and what he said I took to be indicative of what the other side of this…

bugger, simon and his spare time.

Well he helped me to begin my Scallop entree, and make the marinade for the szechuan prawns because of his writings above.

I'm not doubting his ability as a lawyer, or his historic role in the NZ music industry. That's what makes the disclosure thing all the more puzzling to me.

This was on Bfm, where Chris is a weekly show guest and has been for many years. This was a call…

I'm not doubting his ability as a lawyer, or his historic role in the NZ music industry. That's what makes the disclosure thing all the more puzzling to me.

wasn't the context of the discussion that it was on bfm where Chris is a regular host as lawyer and it…

He's pretty well known across the music industry and far further afield, as are his associations. He's also Chairman of the Bfm board. I'm sure Russell knew exactly who he was talking to ;)

I'm sure Russell did, but do other people who are not in the music business? That's…

Maybe it is just his manner, but I haven't heard him say anything that would make me take him on as my lawyer

well, when it comes to Music Law he's pretty much top of the pile in NZ. I used him for years (that's my disclosure) but not for…

He also displayed a distressing lack of insight into how the Internet might actually help artists.

That's an interesting statement, here's Chris's web site www.amplifier.co.nz
ie he pretty much started music on the internet in new zealand, but, please do go on, .....

Which would beg the question, why have Telecom, the TCF and others been so unsuccessful with lobbying *all* parties right up until this point?

I can't answer that question, I'm just trying to work out exactly what Chris was saying which I think was pretty much what I said above.…

Perhaps I've misunderstood?

No, I got that too.

Upholding the rights of artists, protecting a revenue stream, policing piracy, I get all this. What I still don't get is whether the issue is about the adequacy of the…

Maybe I misheard him, but I got the idea that the Telecom thing was simply where he said the real pressure to revisit the bill was coming from..implying that the rest of the stuff..the things you see here and everywhere else.. was having little effect.

I guess that's an inverse…

Maybe I misheard him, but I got the idea that the Telecom thing was simply where he said the real pressure to revisit the bill was coming from..implying that the rest of the stuff..the things you see here and everywhere else.. was having little effect.

Which would beg the question,…

Except that he owns Amplifier which was the first site in NZ to take NZ acts online, almost a decade back. And he wrote many of the digital provisions of quite a few fairly established artist contracts.

It's curious that he's only showing up as an "entertainment lawyer" and not…

Sofie – so Chris is a great guy, salt of the Earth. I stand corrected.
He might want to do what one occasionally does on PA. Apologise :-)

:) Oh I doubt it, he's a lawyer! Actually, come to think of it, I have heard him apologize.Intellectual property is his…

His claim that all this recent fuss was Telecom's doing was another whopping mistake

Maybe I misheard him, but I got the idea that the Telecom thing was simply where he said the real pressure to revisit the bill was coming from..implying that the rest of the stuff..the things you…

But come on, that radio discussion was appalling. He might want to do what one occasionally does on PA. Apologise :-)

Chris Hocquard,…

He also displayed a distressing lack of insight into how the Internet might actually help artists

Except that he owns Amplifier which was the first site in NZ to take NZ acts online, almost a decade back. And he wrote many of the digital provisions of quite a few fairly…

Does know what he is talking about.

Well, his comments about it all being the fault of those drawing up codes of practice (the ISPs) seemed to suggest the opposite...in this case anyway.

He's not the only barrister in the debate and there are others who have reached a very…

In that interview he comes across as a bully and this is similar to the tone RIANZ and their supporters have taken.

Well, I mightn't agree with much of what Chris said but to my ears he's certainly not any more strident or aggressive in tone than many of the…

entertainment lawyer Chris Hocquard

This man is our Lawyer.He is good. Does know what he is talking about.I imagine the debate got juicy.

In that interview he comes across as a bully

Ohh, Chris just sounds like that. Lackey, he certainly is not. :) I'll go listen now........

entertainment lawyer Chris Hocquard

Simon, right. Thanks for the clarification. I stand by my comment though. In that interview he comes across as a bully and this is similar to the tone RIANZ and their supporters have taken. It had *nothing* to do with the fact he disagreed with me,…

Which is how, the on the whole, RIANZ and their proxies come across.

Please, can we not make these blanket swings. Chris is nobody's proxy, and more than almost anyone I know is an advocate who has taken on the members of the RIANZ over artist related copyright issues.

Just…

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0902/S00300.htm

That is a bullshit argument and position and trying to change the ground game. repeat after…

to remark it's a bad idea to argue with barristers.

You think? I am 30 seconds into the interview and the guy has just told Russell to shut up. Is that what barristers do in court? He sounds like a complete tit and a bully. Which is how, the on…

clare curran's proposed bill
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0902/S00339.htm

The news article estimates that 120 people turned up to this protest. Do you think the MPs are worried that the vox populi is against s92a to the point where…

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Well, that was a quiet, bourgeois little protest. Should be glad that you were sharing stage with the Tamils (tho' they didn't seem to have much to shout about, as well...)
Why o why are there no more of…

Still, good to get support from him.

Dunno about that. Some support is actually better not to have, when the cost of it is giving people like Dunne a platform.

Well, that was a quiet, bourgeois little protest.

Was very polite, wasn't it. Decent enough turn out, though.

That rascal, Peter Dunne, eh... using the occasion to put the boot into the now defunct ERA. Still, good to get support from him.

Why o why are there no more of the big noisy demos (anti-SIS, Vietnam, FOL, hell, even the abortion ones) of the past?

It's not as cool as it used to be? I'm not surprised that a protest on amendments to copyright law would be bourgeois :-). I'm thinking I'd…

I didn't ever have the privilege to meet the man but thought very highly of him as a result of our paths crossing at PA. My thoughts, too, go out to his…

In fairness to the disastrous Californian 3…

Time for that Births, Deaths, Civil Unions and Other Events of Interest column, Russell? T'would be nice to have a place to gather to celebrate and mourn. I realise that things are a busy at present... with s92A…

Well, that fucking sucks. I'm so sorry.

Amen, he'll be missed. Our thoughts and love to his family.