There was a concerted push at that time to try to get the rate up. It was, of course, helped by the surge…

When I started at Waikato 12+ years ago (when it was Film and Television…

If we want to talk of cutting university offerings, perhaps we should start with schools of business/management. They represent the debasement of the purpose of an university education.

Them's fightin' words!

Thanks I'm going to need surgery to get that revolting image out of my mind now –

A minor talent, but you have to work with what you got. :)

Nope, you've got to work 'lickspittle' in somewhere. Let one of the Freuds explain why that deliciously antique invective is so popular among the wingnutterati, 'cause I'm not going there.

Thanks I'm going to need surgery to get that revolting image out of my mind now – either that or…

made redundant and invited to reapply for her job

Isn't that illegal? I thought that was constructive dismissal. Totally abusive, anyway.

I think you'll find employers get round the law thusly: Your job was to do A,B,C,F, & J. We have reassesed the roles required by our company and have disestablished…

Of course. I just don't think we should expect it solve everything, or spread it around wastefully.

I fear we're too late for this. Having once led protests demanding free university education, something I've not abandoned but relegated, I've also had to argue the case for funding for industry training.…

A school run as a democracy – fabulous idea.…

Isn't that illegal? I thought that was constructive dismissal. Totally abusive, anyway.

lets not entirely discount the contribution education/training can make.

Of course. I just don't think we should expect it solve everything, or spread it around wastefully.

@Finn on…

American Studies is being cut at Canterbury, so everyone is going to have to find a different subject to process their learning though.

You mean people have to watch The Simpsons for fun now? Aw, hell...

Grrrr... Phil Goff, unctuous lying prat... snarl... Lockwood Smith grinning Thunderbirds puppet... spit, foam... Russell Marshal, human blancmange... gibber... Maharey, Mallard...erk! (immediate stroke).

Do I sound like DFJ yet?

Nope, you've got to work 'lickspittle' in somewhere. Let one of the Freuds explain why that deliciously antique invective is so…

Kyle – I accept the technicality of your point but $6000 a year less of loans in no way compensates for between 4 and 8 years of adult earnings. Mature students really struggle to make ends meet. Believe me I know to my cost.

Oh yes, it's a difficult path.…

I had some similar fun…

I wonder whether we don't end up with creeping qualificationism,

we have. in order to have the status of a BA one now has to have an MA. and to have the status of an MA, a PhD. And a PhD has no status anyway. bummer.

Education is about making…

Grrrr... Phil Goff, unctuous lying prat... snarl... Lockwood Smith grinning Thunderbirds puppet... spit, foam... Russell Marshal, human blancmange... gibber... Maharey, Mallard...erk! (immediate stroke).

Do I sound like DFJ yet?

Actually, I was expecting you to finish with "I was very, very drunk"...

I wonder whether we don't end up with creeping qualificationism, with people needing higher qualifications to do the same jobs with no more productivity.

Word. I am just about to embark upon a *second*, hoop-jumping Masters degree, so that the insanely hierarchical, status-obsessed library world will feel OK about promoting…

But likewise lets not…

My Mum recalls the furore when Catholic Schools went on to be State funded & the requirement Teachers had to be qualified was an outrage against the…

I am thinking seriously about doing the masters degree with Massy. Thats because it's run from the old Wellington museum.

Hmmmm. Well, I have my opinions about the M-place as an employer (and the conversion of the Museum – as does OSH). I'd advise anyone thinking of doing a master's…

JOHN KEY IS AN EVIL SCANNER HELLBENT ON WORLD DOMINATION!

More please. That was extremely bracing.

Grrrr... Phil Goff, unctuous lying prat... snarl... Lockwood Smith grinning Thunderbirds puppet... spit, foam... Russell Marshal, human blancmange... gibber... Maharey, Mallard...erk! (immediate stroke).

Do I sound like DFJ yet?

discovered that their expensive qualification was not the ticket they had hoped for.

One sad…

I have had some dismal conversations with older students who have racked up loans and then either a) had to abandon part-way through because of financial and family stress or b) discovered that their expensive qualification was not the ticket they had…

Damn, sorry everyone for spluttering into my cocoa like this.

More please. That was extremely bracing.

Drunk? You were lucky. All I got was a job. And in Yorkshire, too...

A job? In Yorkshire? Luxury! When I were a lad, all we had was a university education – and we had to read! We had to pay money for books and write essays about them! And…

Does anybody know what happens to people who are 17 and a half and finished high school?

They leave school and get further education, a job, or a benefit.

You got a job and didn't get drunk after they paid you? In Yorkshire? Fer shame.

The place is depressing enough without spending all your dosh on booze, mine all went on CDs, music gear and sneaking into 18-rated movies...

Same loan scheme, but about $6000/less a year of it as a result.

Kyle – I accept the technicality of your point but $6000 a year less of loans in no way compensates for between 4 and 8 years of adult earnings. Mature students really struggle to make ends meet.…

Drunk? You were lucky. All I got was a job. And in Yorkshire, too...

You got a job and didn't get drunk after they paid you? In Yorkshire? Fer shame.

let the students have their wanderjahr before they decide on what they should do.

I'm still in my Wanderjahren. Die Lust ist nie verloren.

If American movies and TV are to be believed, they get laid.

In that case I want a refund. All I got was drunk.

Does anybody know what happens to people who are 17 and a half and finished high school?

If American movies and TV are to be believed, they get laid.

Am I the only one posting here who had to go and look up what 'X' actually is?

I am, aren't I....

But to be fair, from the NZ perspective its only ever really called that in American TV and movies

Education is appalling when it comes to supporting returning adult learners; same loans, just less time to pay then off in.

That's not really true. Once tertiary students are 25 they're no longer considered to be tied to their parents (and don't get me started on that), so their access…

would pay quite a lot of money to see Bjork covering 'Crazy Horses'.

Actually, I've been looking for an MP3 of her cover of Tina Charles' 'I Love to Love', which began her career when it was played on Icelandic public radio. I've found a couple of dead links but…

1. He was from a poor family and needed the money
2. He was not learning anything that would…

The western model of education is in many ways stuck with the idea that early education prepares you for a particular career…

I would pay quite a lot of money to see Bjork covering 'Crazy Horses'.

You know, that would kind of work. At least, better than 'Long Haired Lover from Liverpool' or 'Gonna knock on your door'

Finn, I suspect your experience is not unique sadly. I'm not sure when you had this experience, however in my experience there are now far more and far better pathways to skilled and meaningful work that include training and the achievement of recognisable skills.

Hum. I'm very dubious. My experience…

Youth Apprenticeships however may reduce this risk however the challenge is to find employers willing to take on the responsibility – some employers bitch and moan about the shortage of apprentices but don't appear to be prepared to do much about it themselves.

Or don't have a mysterious financial problem…

I may have pointed this out before, but Bjork sounds amazingly like Little Jimmy Osmond, a lot of the time.

I would pay quite a lot of money to see Bjork covering 'Crazy Horses'.

Ms. Knowles 'Bouncy'.

now that's a picture i'd go to the trouble to find.

Well, the poor kid hasn't quite got the undies/togs distinction yet; because she once capped it with, "Poor Bouncy. Someone stole her dress. Is she cold?"

What do you say? 'That's a bikini, I don't think…

This is why I would have thought 'years of schooling/training completed' would have been better than a flat age.

That doesn't work either. Everyone starts school on their 5th birthday here in NZ (well almost everyone). You do approximately 13 years of high school. If your birthday is over the…

This is why I would have thought 'years of schooling/training completed' would have been better than a flat age.

Good point. I assume you mean years completed with achievement.

I'd've thought people with level 2 NCEA and/or scholarship would generally be about 18.

Nah, there'll be pots of seventeen and a bit year olds legally required to run off and do two to four months or so of 'training' after completing high school. My daughter will be one of…

Re: the education leaving age vs. the school leaving age, etc. I think that, in practice, school rolls will generally increase with kids who would otherwise have left.

Which will, I suggest, make the experience all the more shit for many of the teachers who want to teach, and students…

Kyle – indeed, just about to raise this myself after a colleague mentioned his son is due to…

Ms. Knowles 'Bouncy'.

now that's a picture i'd go to the trouble to find.

re: edumaction. i heard sam flynn scott of phoenix foundation talking on the raedio, and he suggested that some kids (particularly boys) are better getting a mix of education and vocational training from a relatively early…

There's a big push in policy…

The policy I am announcing today is for all young people to be in school or some other form of education or of training…

Well consistency is the key. I'll bear it in mind next time I blog about those other great umlauted acts, like Motoerhead and Spineal Tap. :oP

But I'm really not feeling over confident. The more I look at both speeches, the more flimsy they become.

It was interesting to get both parties pronouncing on the same policy area in close succession, and in January too, so there wasn't much else (apart from a youth crime wave,…

Craig – thanks for explaining what a "koan" is.

No, thank you for the reminder that being too clever for your own good is really dumb. :)

Philistine.

Strangely enough, the WIkipedia article on the Ö character, the 'oe' substitution is only mentioned as a possibility in German. It's specifically exculded for Swedish, Finnish, Karelian, Estonian, Hungarian, Azeri, Turkish and Crimean Tatar alphabets, where you would use 'o'. It doesn't specifically mention what one does in connection…

The more I think about the Key and Clark "youth announcements" the more I think it's humbug.

I don't think they're humbug as such, I'm sure Key and Clark are fairly serious about them and will babble on about them now and again 'til election day.

But in terms of…

The more I think about the Key and Clark "youth announcements" the more I think it's humbug.

To be fair to both,aI sheaf of speech notes may well be the beginning of a substantive and well-thought out policy that you may not totally agree with, but can at least see…

Both seem to share an assumption that "yoof" are property of the state and should be denied the opportunity to make independent decisions.

Both seem to think that if 11 years of compulsory…

It's hard to convey here, but you "land on the r" when you say it. David Slack got better at it with every additional beer at the BDO.

Also, not many people…

Did you mean "effect" — or is there something you're not telling us?

I meant "effect". Bugger

What do's Philistine mean?

is country between teh westpac bank and teh gazza stripe.

What's a "Koan"? I could google it I suppose, but it'd be nice if someone could explain its meaning.

"Two hands clap and there is a sound; what is the sound of one hand?" is a famous (if usually bastardised) kōan. Very basically, they're stories, dialogues, questions, or statements that…

What's a "Koan"? ... it'd be nice if someone could explain its meaning.

But then it would no longer be a koan, grasshopper.
Unless, possibly, no-one were to read the explanation.

I spelt Bjoerk correctly. She has an umlaut in her name – therefore "oe" is correct and "o" is not. Philistine.

Yes Blair. Of course you did.

Final word: I probably qualify as a tribal Labour voter, but I'm not as horrified as some people by the possibility of a change of government.

I'd be a lot more comfortable if it was English in charge and worthless 90s turds like Williamson were long gone.

And as for…

And here's a Kōan to mull over

What's a "Koan"? I could google it I suppose, but it'd be nice if someone could explain its meaning.

If Helen Clark keeps banging on about National's secret agenda, is it really a secret agenda at all?

There's obvious mileage for Labour in getting positive notices from the EMA for funding more industry training, and for Key appeal to concern about youth crime, but there was nothing of the above in either speech.

ITA – and the more I look at both speeches, the more I hear…

Somewhere along the way I noted that we'd survived many National governments in the past ...

I believe I even had the odd good night out.

& that Key was highly unlikely to affect the fall of Western Civilisation.

Did you mean "effect" — or is there something you're not telling…

As to keeping kids in school till 18 – let's have the substance. Are schools going to get ever-larger? As they aim to bring down teacher student ratios as well, where are all the extras going to be housed? Will there be meaningful, properly-resourced,…

but I'm not as horrified as some people by the possibility of a change of government.

I agree, but over the break I was paid a social visit by a friend who works for a cabinet minister. Somewhere along the way I noted that we'd survived many National governments in…

But I think National (less so Act, for various reasons) is going to have to treat the centre-right's online cheerleaders with some caution this year.

To be honest, you're right — but I'd also say if the political blogisphere wants to be taken seriously this election year, it better start…

Far more offensive is Russell's continued defamatory assertion that [sad clown in question] made jokes about raping another blogger. If it were me, you'd have court papers on your doorstep by now.

Yeah right. That's a Statement of Claim I'd like to see Blair. I suspect your knowledge of defamation…

As opposed to, say, those who write blog posts lecturing entertainers on their behavior (despite not being familiar enough with the artist to even, say, spell their name) and post pictures of themselves looking like this on the internet?

Not even some acknowledgement of The Wig's useful advice on dating?

Grrr... I may be a potty-mouth puritan ...

Heh.

Thanks Craig. As you have correctly determined, that was my point.

Grrr... I may be a potty-mouth puritan, and there are numerous occasions on which I can be pinged as a partisan hypocrite. But not this: It was just inexcusably vile, especially when it was ostensibly posted on a dare.…

And would it be within the realm of possibility you'd be a tad less sanguine if it was Heather Roy or Bronwyn Key getting that kind of treatment on a left-wing blog?

Sorry for going off, folks. But really...

Thanks Craig. As you have correctly determined, that was my point.

Juvenile and pathetic the image may have been, but those who have flailed around in such deep offence really need to get over themselves.

Oh, piss off. You know ...the person concerned might like to get his arse back in the country and try campaigning around sane people when this…

Juvenile and pathetic the image may have been, but those who have flailed around in such deep offence really need to get over themselves.

As opposed to, say, those who write blog posts lecturing entertainers on their behavior (despite not being familiar enough with the artist to even, say, spell…

Juvenile and pathetic the image may have been, but those who have flailed around in such deep offence really need to get over themselves.

I thought I was fairly measured, actually. I made the point that had the shoe been on the other foot, the wingnuts would have been incandescent.…

Far more offensive is Russell's continued defamatory assertion that [sad clown in question] made jokes about raping another blogger. If it were me, you'd have court…

I'm another one on the right who was annoyed by it, and I normally have a lot of time for the blog it was on.

Really, why? I've always thought of them as Beavis to Whaleoil's Butthead.

Although Whaleoil's gallery of Helen Clark pictures is so copious as to suggest there's something sexual going on in his head.

OK, this is getting way OTT now.

Oh, you mean this one?

No. Although Whaleoil's gallery of Helen Clark pictures is so copious as to suggest there's something sexual going on in his head.

I don't. I think they lost me the time

Yeah, the guy is a knob.

heh. One sentence portrait.

is this it?

Hardly.

Oh, you mean this one?

I think she looks fine.

I'm another one on the right who was annoyed by it, and I normally have a lot of time for the blog it was on.

I don't. I think they lost me the time they made the funny jokes about raping another blogger.

...the HR person is on leave (booked up before Christmas),…

I need to, so where's the link?

is this it?

No – but that's still pretty gross (but was published on the front page of the ComPost). Can you trust this potty-mouth vulgarian Sodomite, when I say it grossed me out (which takes some doing) and Russell isn't giving the…

I need to, so where's the link?

Go to a well known site & start working down the links, ignore the ones it obviously isn't, I found it on the fourth go.

And so forth.

Where's the amusement?

It was only funny when the monkey was around. (Make up your own mind whether I'm meaning the blog or the show).

is this it?

Hardly.

I've not seen the offending imagery or text but have heard enough to not need to.

I need to, so where's the link?

is this it?

Readers may be amused by the Kiwiblog thread on the Jimmy Mason case, in which many participants show a rather thrilling estrangement from reality.

Going over there's really a bit like watching Friends. There's the usual set of characters all acting in a completely predictable way and it's completely asinine…

Well, the text offended me as much as the picture (more so, in a way). Any way, in the finest tradition of teh blogz I got ever so slightly irritated (some mild-ish language including the P-word, so probably marginal for work viewing).

All fair I'd've thought.

I've not seen the…

I didn't hear much of Key on morning report but I feel like he used the phrase "boundaries and [something]" (as in, thats what they need [right as far as it goes]/what they will get) three times in one sentence.

He also promised "drug and alcohol training" which would sound…

Yes, but Italian is a fiendishly difficult language.

Yikes! Four languages in just 3 words. I blame Bebo.

Craig, for what it's worth, though I'm clear you've got different politics to me, I've never associated you with that particularly odious crowd and I can completely understand your desire to restate your independence.

Well, the text offended me as much as the picture (more so, in a way). Any…

Simon G – three languages in one sentence. Have you considered the possibility that kids these days are too literate...

"Viva Le Referendum"

This is why kids need to stay in school.

Yes, but Italian is a fiendishly difficult language.

Any high school teachers around here care to comment on the plans for (presumably) expecting/encouraging teenagers to stay in school longer than they already do?

I imagine it's a sweet,…

Looks like the Kiwiblog right have struck again, with another brick through the PM's electorate office window...

"Viva Le Referendum"

This is why kids need to stay in school.

They want votes? They should talk about interest rates!

Which is completely standard fare in Australia....Perhaps both main parties want to wash their hands of interest rates and maintain the stance that the Reserve Bank acts independent of government, etc?

But if they do start talking...

The right…

Hey, where's my housing affordability initiative? Screw it, where's my cheese affordability initiative?

I think they're saving the big guns – like tax breaks on Havarti – for an election campaign gazumping.

Am I the only one posting here who had to go and look up what 'X' actually is?

I am, aren't I....

Well, I had to think really hard about what it might be. In the end I figured it probably wasn't referring to Baywatch's appearance on the air.

Am I the only one posting here who had to go and look up what 'X' actually is?

Happy to help – the letter before 'Y'.

Surely, even in Hataitai...

I'm another one on the right who was annoyed by it, and I normally have a lot of time for the blog it was on.…

that makes it rather difficult to get to the, erm, baby-making end of a shag...

so i've heard... my thinking was more directed at the old maxim about beer, "helping ugly people get laid since 1200BC"

]]> Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:37:10 +1300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-herselfs-turn/?p=40527#post40527 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-herselfs-turn/?p=40527#post40527 Ah, the light dawns... my 14 & 17 yr olds are a consequence of the shagging wave . Come to think of it, we did spend a lot of time in bed keeping warm back then.

As to keeping kids in school till 18 – let's have the substance. Are schools…

]]> Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:35:44 +1300 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-herselfs-turn/?p=40525#post40525 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-herselfs-turn/?p=40525#post40525

And finally, a local blog posted an obscene photoshopped image...

OK, that's enough – I got send a link to the damn thing, and am just ashamed to (presumably) share a species with the utter, utter fuck-tard who posted it. Tempted to name and shame, except 1) I rather doubt…

Am I the only one posting here who had to go and look up what 'X' actually is?

No, I'm just following the safe strategy of waiting for someone else to ask.

And it's never a total lie until somebody uses the word __synergy_...

LOL. Yes any presentation that has…

I am, aren't I....

Can't see why she should. Creative people are still a voting demographic.

And creative people still wake up the morning, shit, shave and shower and try to make a living like everyone else. There might also be one or two folks out there whose work still matters, despite not fitting…

Oh God, sorry for banging on about this but am I the only person who really wishes Clark would dump this applause line?

Can't see why she should. Creative people are still a voting demographic.

Although... that makes it rather difficult to get to the, erm, baby-making end of a…

I've written that one verbatim a number of times. Sounds soooo professional.

And it's never a total lie until somebody uses the word __synergy_...

just quietly, wasn't this around the time that X really started getting onto the market?

Although... that makes it rather difficult to get to the, erm, baby-making end of a shag...

Clark also said she'd be promoting "the role of our creative people in expressing what is unique and special about New Zealand".

Oh God, sorry for banging on about this but am I the only person who really wishes Clark would dump this applause line? Because it's really getting dated…

The difference, of course, is that the Prime Minister gets to talk about things her government is doing, rather than what it would do if it got the chance.

And personally I have to be careful with this – I tend to respond a lot better to a positive message…

What? Why did no one tell me it was on at the time?

...too busy shagging soz.

Love this from the Clark speech too:
"A detailed timetable will be developed with clear milestones after consultation with stakeholders"

I've written that one verbatim a number of times. Sounds soooo professional.

the "shagging wave"

What? Why did no one tell me it was on at the time?

Too busy shagging. Sorry.

But it might be more accurate to blame the "shagging wave" of 1990 to 1994.

just quietly, wasn't this around the time that X really started getting onto the market?

the "shagging wave"

What? Why did no one tell me it was on at the time?

Hmmm, seems a bit much for Clark to be blaming the 'yoof crime wave' on the 1991 budget.

Yes, although the youth crime rate did jump mightily from 1991-94.

But it might be more accurate to blame the "shagging wave" of 1990 to 1994. There are quite a few 14-18…

But her speech is well balanced, at least.

The question of what to do about the small groups whose failure harms and indicts us all is pervasive: not only in education, but in New Zealand society as a whole.

Can we move on please? Talking about the Rugby World Cup is just so 2007.

:)