Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Helen Kelly's letter

Sacha

Sat, 09 Apr 2016 07:42:09 +1200

Braunias interviews Helen Kelly.

Alfie

Wed, 06 Apr 2016 17:30:33 +1200

Many people here will be aware of Xeni Jardin, one of the founders of the wonderful BoingBoing blog. After being diagnosed with breast cancer in 2011, she wrote a moving account of how a non-user of recreational drugs turned into an advocate for medical pot.

[[http://boingboing.net/2014/12/23/cancer-and-cannabis-how-i-lea.html|How I learned to stop…

Sacha

Fri, 11 Mar 2016 21:21:45 +1300

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/298728/nz-likely-to-follow-australia-on-medical-cannabis

linger

Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:23:53 +1300

If he really wants a meaningful legacy, there’s any number of actions that are both politically easy, and the right thing to do, that he could start with, and I’m considerably unimpressed that they’ve not even been considered. Taking in refugees from Nauru, for example.
Marijuana law reform is also…

Rob Stowell

Wed, 09 Mar 2016 15:12:35 +1300

I think the comments indicate the mass of public opinion has shifted on cannabis. Love to know what Curia are coming up with. It would be almightily amusing if JK, losing the flag referendum, decided his 'legacy' would be cannabis law reform!

Sacha

Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:47:43 +1300

Turns out not only Martin Crowe but Paul Holmes used cannabis during cancer.

Alfie

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:46:54 +1300

Support for Helen Kelly's situation is growing with some very public calls for a change in the way medicinal cannabis is treated by the government.

A call for compassion from Jeremy Elwood & Michele A'Court.

And a strong piece from Barry Soper in today's Herald.

Ross Bell

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:45:35 +1300

Yep.

Rosemary McDonald

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:44:23 +1300

There was an informal 'protest' up North the other day.

linger

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:41:35 +1300

[NORML and ALCP’s] noticeable absence from any important debate […] gives stoners a bad name.Or it may be that both groups already have a bad enough name that attaching it to an important case would not necessarily be a positive.
(What's that you can smell? Uh, just a politically suspicious…

Alfie

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:25:37 +1300

Where are NORML and the ALCP during this tragic situation?

I asked the same question during the Alex Renton debate. If neither group has the awareness to even write a press release on these issues, which surely fit both of their remits, then there's little point in them existing.

The…

Russell Brown

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:12:05 +1300

I support Helen in her fight, but one of the chief obstacles to reform seems to be the pot lobby itself.

That’s not new. Some people have a lot of trouble making the right allies.

Otoh, there’s been speculative corporate money behind the legalisation lobby in the US and I’m…

Craig Young

Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:36:07 +1300

Where are NORML and the ALCP during this tragic situation? When will both New Zealand cannabis lobby groups wise up and adapt their strategies to reflect the successful ones in the United States which have led to decriminalisation of medicinal cannabis derivatives across many US states? If they're this useless…

Sacha

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 20:49:37 +1300

It's not a consistent argument.

applies to so many areas of public discourse.

B Jones

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 20:27:13 +1300

Perhaps he could, but it would create other problems. Perhaps another drug would drop off the affordable list. Perhaps it would incentivise more drug companies to run campaigns that their drug be funded by political fiat rather than considered policy.

I'm shaking my head a bit at the talk of…

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:50:00 +1300

A friend, who has a weakness for morning telly, suggested I watch today's Paul Henry show. I begged for mercy...but she insisted.

And, sure enough, there was Our Leader being put on a hot griddle by Henry over Pharmac not funding Keytruda.

[[http://www.tv3.co.nz/PAUL-HENRY-Highlights-Monday-February-15-2016/tabid/3692/articleID/123481/Default.aspx|We live in the melanoma epicentre, and New…

Shane Le Brun

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 18:34:21 +1300

Agreed diazepam is more risky, but we do have social/medical/political biases to accomodate also. Generally speaking Gps are comfortable dishing out class c stuff anyway. My next quest after MC will be topical ketamine, that stuff is great for nerve pain!

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 17:43:01 +1300

I would propose splitting MC products based on THC:CBD ratio.
high THC, as in, anything more potent than 2:1 THC:CBD stays as a class B med, as it has recreational potential, anything between 2:1 and 1:4 goes to class C, as a low risk med next to codeine, diazpeam, and…

Shane Le Brun

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:29:51 +1300

Although the fight here is for more products, ( a universal fight really ) the classification and hoops to jump through just doesn't match its level of risk or harm.
I would propose splitting MC products based on THC:CBD ratio.
high THC, as in, anything more potent than 2:1 THC:CBD…

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 16:18:57 +1300

Here’s the UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs letter of advice to the Home Office minister in 201. Key part:

In 2003, the ACMD made its recommendation for Sativex to be placed in Schedule 4. The ACMD at its meeting on 30th June 2010 concluded that the 2003…

Shane Le Brun

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:55:28 +1300

Heres more. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/144115/advice-sativex.pdf

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:42:48 +1300

The Ministry’s approach is, in my view, an abuse of power, and the more strongly they are called on it the better.

The Misery of Health has a track record

"We are acutely aware that trust is not something that is present in the Ministry of Health at present –…

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:34:10 +1300

Not so. See paras at top of p3 of the cover letter. Looks like they missed a 2013 reference, and are committing to review and revise that aspect of the offical advice. Says “no other” references were found, not none.

Yes, sorry – I did say I was rushing!

It…

Rosemary McDonald

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 15:33:46 +1300

50/50 THC/CBD in conjunction with radiotherapy for brain tumours – is quite an attention-grabber.

and, also, high dose Vit C prior to radiotherapy

They found that high dose vitamin C by itself caused DNA damage and cell death which was much more pronounced when high dose vitamin C was…

Sacha

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:27:12 +1300

They also say they found no evidence to challenge the view that Sativex is "desirable and divertible".

Not so. See paras at top of p3 of the cover letter. Looks like they missed a 2013 reference, and are committing to review and revise that aspect of the offical advice. Says…

Shane Le Brun

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:23:59 +1300

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21542664 a study on Sativex abuse potential

the best bit "Tolerance has not occurred, abrupt withdrawal has not resulted in a formal withdrawal syndrome, and no cases of abuse or diversion have been reported to date."

Sativex really ought to be cut down a peg from Class B1 to something…

Alfie

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:14:41 +1300

They also say they found no evidence to challenge the view that Sativex is “desirable and divertible”. Which is odd.

Indeed. In fact this line (page 36) suggests that the Ministry adheres to the goverment's documented philosophical objection rather than any evidence-based criteria.

Sativex is considered to be a desirable…

Shane Le Brun

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 14:04:41 +1300

"I’ve said before I think this is how any campaign has to go: to make the issue a political liability for the government. If Curia says that’s the case, things will change."

Ive pondered hiring curia once the MCANZ charity is off the ground to survey this issue, use Nationals…

Shane Le Brun

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:57:12 +1300

e: wondering if anyone has noticed that Peter Dunne (minister of the Crown, associate h

That was an eye opener for many I'm sure, William Rea (KiwiCannaseur) felt quite pleased with himself extracting that statement from him.

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:52:12 +1300

Hot take before I have to go out:

The criteria were drawn up in light of the Alex Renton case and are principally based on a Rapid Assessment by Stewart Jessamine, which strongly emphasises the view that medical cannabis products should ideally only be considered when they are on a…

Ross Bell

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:30:36 +1300

There's a conundrum here right: we want our drug policy decisions to be made on good evidence (vs ideology); Minister Dunne is trying to do that (the medical cannabis science is still very contested), and we get grumpy at him for it.

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 13:22:05 +1300

My OIA arrived on time!

I have to go out soon so I can't read it closely now, but I’ve uploaded it with this comment.

Hilary Stace

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 12:33:30 +1300

In my experience Pat Tuohy, who signed that letter, is one of the good people in the Ministry of Health. Paediatrician by background. But it is often hard for public servants to be true 'public servants' these days, as the ministers' needs come first.

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:39:08 +1300

Anyway, a related OIA response has just popped up on FYI.

It includes the number of applications for medical cannabis received by the minister or ministry (120, with 105 granted), but that number includes Sativex.

Also: Regulation 22 (covering ministerial approval) is to be reviewed this year and regulations around…

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:33:14 +1300

Russell, have you sent your request to the Ombudsman? I got to the point, with NZTA, of simply copying the Ombudsman on every communication, NZTA were so obstructive.

MoH have been quite nice and my request might be a bit of work, I'm not sure.

But I have politely reminded…

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:20:03 +1300

Russell, have you sent your request to the Ombudsman? I got to the point, with NZTA, of simply copying the Ombudsman on every communication, NZTA were so obstructive.

Geoff Noller (and others) – always record your phone calls (it's legal and you don't have to tell them – s216 of…

nzlemming

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:03:23 +1300

Except if your drinking your drug.

Or your son is selling a substitute for drugs.

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:51:50 +1300

The Minister is basically trying to create a process and precedent for prescribing and dispensing cannabis in a regulatory vacuum. He can’t change the law/regs because the Government isn’t interested, so he is working with the tools he has.

I do get that. But I think it has to be…

Bart Janssen

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:37:44 +1300

If Curia says that's the case, things will change.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a government that based policy on data and greatest benefit rather than using the reality TV popular vote.

Joe Boden

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:37:34 +1300

I thought I would repost something here that I posted in the first article about Helen Kelly, and my own take on the Government's behaviour in this area.

"It’s Big Pharma.

As part of my research work in cannabis, a few months ago I was asked to review a white…

Nick Russell

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:04:19 +1300

The Minister is basically trying to create a process and precedent for prescribing and dispensing cannabis in a regulatory vacuum. He can't change the law/regs because the Government isn't interested, so he is working with the tools he has. This requires a significant investment of time, effort and political capital,…

Ross Bell

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 09:48:05 +1300

He’s pondered aloud numerous times that he supports using the PSA to regulate cannabis. Most recently in a twitter exchange this past weekend. Am trying to upload a screenshot of that chatter (ah, it worked).

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:43:14 +1300

Got a link for that, Ross? I'm well aware that Dunne isn't the rabid prohibitionist people believe him…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 08:11:14 +1300

Strewth to Power...
Eagleson called Power and said, literally, ‘Don’t you fucking dare.’
Bloody Eagleson, another one of the far too influential people we never actually voted into a position of full 'power'.

Ross Bell

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:37:08 +1300

An aside: wondering if anyone has noticed that Peter Dunne (minister of the Crown, associate health minister with responsibilities for drug policy and all that) has publicly backed regulated sales of cannabis? No other party, including Labour or the Greens (the later now only support a review of our drug…

JC Carter

Mon, 15 Feb 2016 06:55:19 +1300

The best manner to get National to change their minds on this policy is , 1) have labour include it as one of their policies, 2) have national think this change for labour will result in votes.

izogi

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:23:18 +1300

So this is what we’re up against. And it’s what makes pinning it all on Dunne such a distraction. New Zealand’s drug policy has improved about as much as it can with the law-reform fatwa in place.

What’s driving this? Based on previous experience, is this poll driven behaviour to…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 21:24:30 +1300

I don't know the cause of Ms Kelly's lung cancer. Often it is a direct result of smoking cigarettes. The government of New Zealand sanctions the use of tobacco products that cause dramatic and negative effects on the population's health and wellbeing. It has a conflict of interest in that…

Hilary Stace

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 21:09:57 +1300

As far as I am aware there is an active clinical ethics group at CCH DHB. Some of the members gave presentations at last year's Bioethics and Health Law conference in Wellington mentioning some of the issues that had come up for them. Good people, who I'm sure would be…

Geoff Noller

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 19:38:52 +1300

Well frankly I’m not surprised at the Ministry’s response, though I am still confused about their reasons. A couple of years ago I attended a health select committee hearing regarding medicinal cannabis, on behalf of an excellent submission by William Rae, in my capacity as a cannabis researcher.

Prior to…

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 19:25:06 +1300

I guess Curia would know…

I've said before I think this is how any campaign has to go: to make the issue a political liability for the government. If Curia says that's the case, things will change.

Scott A

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 18:55:56 +1300

What puzzles me is why there such a profound opposition to medicial marijuana from the Beehive? Is it really that much of a vote losing issue?

I guess Curia would know...

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 18:52:56 +1300

So marijuana may allow more aggressive chemo or radiation with greater chances of success; but that’s different from claiming that marijuana by itself can cure cancer.

No, it’s more than simply making other therapies more bearable. From the first link in my comment:

Senior author of the new study, Dr.…

linger

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 18:45:06 +1300

The “in conjunction with radiotherapy” part is a fairly important concession – because one thing that is quite well established is that marijuana can moderate negative side effects of conventional cancer therapies (e.g. pain and appetite loss). So marijuana may allow more aggressive chemo or radiation with greater chances of…

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 18:32:58 +1300

The University of London study – 50/50 THC/CBD in conjunction with radiotherapy for brain tumours – is quite an attention-grabber.

It’s being taken seriously in some surprising places:

Researchers have been studying the medical benefits of marijuana for years, but this month marks the first time the National Institute on…

linger

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 18:26:56 +1300

The studies Zukerman was commenting on were more scattershot, looking at effects on various different types of cancer in mice. Doesn't rule out the possibility of some effect against some types of human cancer — but doesn't support it at all either. (Also, behind that label "no consistent effect" is…

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:54:50 +1300

as a cure for cancer, no

Slightly surprising, given the trials on treating fast-growing brain tumours. It's not conclusive, but it's way better than anecdote. Stronger than the epilepsy evidence, from what I've been able to make out.

And I say that as someone who's been pretty sceptical about many…

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:50:46 +1300

Same with my Doctors application for a surgery. Sent back as insuffficient and once we pushed it straight back to them with one minor detail, my wish was granted.

I think the best thing for Helen and her doctor to do is get those assays pronto – stop being end…

linger

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:47:07 +1300

One episode of Wendy Zukerman’s Science Vs podcast surveyed the evidence for effectiveness of medical marijuana, including against epilepsy. (For pain relief, yes; as a cure for cancer, probably not — no consistent effect in lab and no in vivo human study at all; for epilepsy, maybe, but not much…

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 17:33:41 +1300

Further to the government's "we're never changing the law" branding position. From a Wellington insider:

FYI, a former staffer in Simon Power's office told me back in 2010 that when the Law Commission review into drugs came out, Eagleson called Power and said, literally, 'Don't you fucking dare.'

So this…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 16:39:28 +1300

Hi Sushila, how is Alisha ? I read she improved dramatically. Do you think sativex could be an alternative way over epilepsy drugs like Tegretol ? One drug I would love to eventually eliminate from my life. Anyway glad to read you got sativex. Kia kaha.

ok getting coat....

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 16:25:14 +1300

Even if every single box had been ticked and every single minutiae had been covered they would have bounced this application back.

Same with my Doctors application for a surgery. Sent back as insuffficient and once we pushed it straight back to them with one minor detail, my wish was…

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 16:14:54 +1300

When i read about Helen Kelly my heart goes for her as my daughter was in the same situation

Thank you for commenting Sushila, and my best wishes to you and your daughter.

david westcot

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 15:42:16 +1300

Good on you Russel for valiantly ,comprehensively & patiently shining a light on the dickensian & kafkaesque legislation that presumes to call itself a policy [ ie the MOD act ].Hard to know where to start when critqueing this utterly shambolic hypocrysy & socio-cultural dysfunction .....lookin at the calendar now – are we…

Sushila Butt

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 15:11:52 +1300

I will advice Helen Kelly to try sativex , The minister knows her case and it shouldn't take a day to approve her to use this medication , as it is legal to use in NZ , and if it does Peter Dunne has real problem and he should be…

Sushila Butt

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 14:37:58 +1300

mpledger , you mentioned about Pharmac funding sativex to Alisha and i am her mother , this is incorrect , it is DHB who has funded it from their non pharmeceutical budget. Pharmac is useless like Peter Dunne and shouldnt exist on taxpayers money. Peter Dunne goes overseas and uses…

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 14:31:21 +1300

I don’t know the cause of Ms Kelly’s lung cancer. Often it is a direct result of smoking cigarettes.

In her case, it's not.

Rosemary McDonald

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:44:53 +1300

Unless they were residing isolated in a dark cave, a politically aware ‘maze bright’ bureaucrat would have seen HK’s application coming from a mile away.

They would have known that Helen simply does not give up. And, that she will do her work for social justice in a very public…

ThoughtSpur

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:44:15 +1300

Zach Bagnall

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 13:10:43 +1300

Commenting from a State with legalized medicinal (and recreational) cannabis, stories like this are really sad. It's so strange that a country like NZ, generally thought to be liberal minded if not terribly progressive this century, takes such a hard line on this issue. Come on in, Pete – the…

JC Carter

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 12:34:12 +1300

The prime minister, and his previous ministers of health are all incompetent buffoons. Drugs r bad (tm).

Except if your drinking your drug. Then its good.

Key
http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1329971788/319/6470319_600x400.jpg
http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/4/e/q/6/9/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.14epo3.png/1429477947845.jpg
Bolger
http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/4/e/q/y/7/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.14epo3.png/1429477947845.jpg
English
http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/4/e/r/g/m/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.14epo3.png/1429477947845.jpg

and not to miss the other hypocrites
Cunliffe
http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/4/e/q/i/b/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.14epo3.png/1429477947845.jpg
Clark
http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/4/e/r/4/z/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.14epo3.png/1429477947845.jpg

Rosemary McDonald

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 12:14:03 +1300

The ministry’s response.

We have similar letters on Misery Of Health letterhead saying basically the same thing.

"You have not provided us with sufficient information in a form that we require.
The fact that we have failed to specify the exact criteria and the exact information we require to process…

mpledger

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 11:50:26 +1300

She should give sativax a go. And there has been one case where it has been funded by pharmac.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/76355498/medical-marijuana-funding-approved-for-northland-woman
Although it looks like it took from at least October to January to get approval.

Russell Brown

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 10:58:26 +1300

The ministry’s response.

Public Address

Sun, 14 Feb 2016 10:58:25 +1300

Discussion from blog post.