He appears to be doing ok

shureley yew jhest?

I didn't chase this, it came to me, like whatever those floaty things at the beginning of Forrest Gump were (I forget). I am constantly amazed at where I end up whilst surfing the web (surfing? I'm blown hither and yon like a plastic shopping bag).

Why, only…

It's a good'un though. We can only aspire.....

doesn't it knock your efforts for six

What also might knock someone for six is how you even know about this guy?

Russell I love your PAS website (yours too Mr Grigg), and I appreciate the effort you put in to it, but by crikey doesn't it knock your efforts for six when this guy gets 10 million hits!

apart from utilising the rather excellent Phillips cdr component CD

yep, they are the bomb. I had one for close to a decade (from back when blank CDs were $10 each) until it gave up the ghost last year.

OTOH, need to sort out that vinyl->digital thing ...

apart from utilising the rather excellent Phillips cdr component CD player;, which just sits in a stack under one deck [the only drawback being that It is going to PC VIA CD [one extra step], which is also a benefit as…

I guess we're not quite at 'digital downloads wipes out real world sales' just yet, maybe its different for different genres.

Nah it's still only 10-20% on average but on things like pop / R'n'B etc its way higher. That said my 13 year old just asked for CD copies…

But the main thing is the music.

Yep but a Miles Davis LP under yer arm has a much higher hip value than an MP3 of the same thing.

And what I wouldn't do to get my hands on the Murray Cammick soul collection. Nothing to do with the music…

You take that and multiply it by the free Pitchfork sampler on Emusic ...

What were the figures on the PA /Amplifier comps? those 2 you did.

I've found download sales to me fairly disappointing. for my 40 albums it was a mere couple of hundred dollars over 2 and…

I wonder what a good review on Pitchforkmedia sells

disturbingly few for some.

pretty hard to travel with that lot unless you've got a nice mum who lets you store em at her house.

My problem with physical media is that the disc ends up on the pile/shelf and you lose touch with it. I can fit most of what I might ever…

I wonder what a good review on Pitchforkmedia sells?

You take that and multiply it by the free Pitchfork sampler on Emusic ...

Small Wonder 7''s you mentioned earlier.

they acted as a distributor for a lot of indie labels at the time. not just their own releases. I used to get a nice 8 pg catalogue with every order.
I'm much rather have a solid copy too, i'm not into the download…

That's how I bought my rare discs. sent away for them.

And now you have emusic, itunes, Beatport, Juno and 1000 other retail sites. I would have killed to have been able to click and buy those Small Wonder 7''s you mentioned earlier.

Then again I'd not have those boxes…

you say that last bit (creative marketing) like its easy :)

of course not but I'd rather have a website than a review in the NME (global circulation circa 1982 of about 40,000).

We had a review in Trouser Press, one of the most influential US mags of the time…

except now you can sell it to the world. 6 billion sets of ears over 3 million works for me anytime.

true that, that other market was always there though, contactable through reviews in foreign mags and mail order. That's how I bought my rare discs. sent away for them.…

Are many artists compromising their art by participating in the production of the inevitably cheesy promo video?

absolutely. music videos have worn a bit thin really. there are still good slants on it but as an art form was a music video every really the music artists art. it was…

I think the market theoretically was much wider. There wasn't much else to be into except sport and music,

except now you can sell it to the world. 6 billion sets of ears over 3 million works for me anytime.

And all it takes is a website and a bit…

I don't want an artist compromising their art for dollars, ever.

devils advocate hat; and cynic sneakers on for a moment:

How many compromises have been made under the ownership of major labels? by 'artists' who actualy really just want to be be rich or a celebrity or both? or…

I don't demand "honesty" from music any more than I do from films

I do.

and been frowned upon since it was first tried. its no cooler now than it ever was. I don't want an artist compromising their art for dollars, ever. I know it happens, but I don't want to listen to the results.

I'm not a fan of the approach either, and…

but haven't deals like this been done since even before the humble cassette tape, let alone the CD

and been frowned upon since it was first tried. its no cooler now than it ever was. I don't want an artist compromising their art for dollars, ever. I know it happens,…

I listen to a lot of hip-hop (from where I get the clothing label endorsement example), but haven't so far maxed out a credit card on rims, expensive liquor, watches or big ol' sunglasses.

Off topic, but The Daily Show last night showed a video off John McCain's web site…

how much does it matter in the end if the artist was paid to mention it or not?

and that's the artist ethics question.
depends what you want from your music I guess. I want honest communication in pleasing ways, free from interference. I resent the invasion into my life…

would you be happy to have your fav artists slip product references into their songs to offset the cost of the disc

I don't have references ready to hand here at work, but haven't deals like this been done since even before the humble cassette tape, let alone the CD…

I am happy to buy a non-DRM CD with (say) a clothing sponsorship on the sleeve.

That's a tricky one sam.
would you be happy to have your fav artists slip product references into their songs to offset the cost of the disc.

shakin' a baby now, twisties and shout

…

no,no,no, its __the pirates.

did it take you long to put all those bolds and italics in that post samuel? :)
hopefully you were making fun of my shit typos,

so m any things competing

and simons

The potential market was so much narrower twenty five years back.

you do…

haven't you noticed? ads on everything.

This is the result of smart marketers working out that if people are not willing to pay for something, you are better off providing what they do want and then trying to get them to pay more for something else.

For instance, I am…

so any things competing for an individuals attention and money.

no,no,no, its __the pirates. they caused it. and we must stop them. for if we do,__ if we beat them, purge the world of their scorge. then all will be right again in the world of entertainment com**merce. talentless wond__ers…

The potential market was some much narrower twenty five years back.

I think the market theoretically was much wider. There wasn't much else to be into except sport and music,
now there are so any things competing for an individuals attention and money. the internet and its miriad of time…

Crazy Frog?

sure there have always been the likes of The Archies or Crazy Frog, but a credible artist that exists only in the studio is hard to find and is unlikely to have a fanbase.

And Rob is right, making a record in 2008 is way easier. However making…

a rose tinted view of the past mayhaps robbery?

possibly, why, do they make my face look fat? shall I try another colour?

nah, it's fact. its easier and cheaper to make discs these days. it was quite a prohibitive experience in past decades. someone had to really want to…

walk into real groovy, see half a mile of trestle tables

but it's a faff to listen to cds/records (albeit in a cool environment)

i find it so much easier to search/listen to stuff on the web now

and their efforts are appreciated, even if it is at the cost of them making easier money.

but i bet they have some dedicated customers!
unfortunately that approach has not worked for many small music retailers.

and as for the clutter, picture that suburban music retailer in the late eighties.…

lots of bands don't gig in nz so as far as we''re concerned they're studio only, or might as well be.

then there's…

I'm having trouble thinking of many studio-only acts that have ever been financially lucrative...

Crazy Frog?

and i guess it's no different now.

very different now. mis managed misdirected promo clogging the communications channels, and shear quantity, much of it of no interest to one persons tastes. It's a lot of work to wade through it.…

I've been a bit disappointing with pitchfork of late, i'll give those other too a look though.

A couple of minutes a day at Pitchfork, Resident Advisor, Fact Magazine and a spin through my fave MP3 blogs keeps me happy.

sweet. they look interesting.

we're witnessing an inventive flowering not seen since the eighties when hip-hop, post-punk and house / techno all changed the landscape.

I love your positivity simon, and your negativity too though (cough- dire straits-cough)

I think you miss the point. Once again,

I didn't have one point, I had a multipoint angle, a large part of it was a change in attitude, assisted by a not "piss easy" to steal product. the change in attitude would be media commentators and any music enthusiast not…

I think he did in his blog:

rather than

ie instead of, excluding the first, doing the second

It's much much easier

change in attitude

nah we had to work a hell of a lot harder to access the stuff back then.

small wonder records catalogue and an NME would sort you, but my comment was more you could find the interesting stuff cos it was written about. now you have to sift through promoter…

sometimes the end product is the end product and not just a means to earn money off diversions.

I agree Rob but few of those who have historically recorded and released such 'end product' have ever expected to make a living off such. I'm having trouble thinking of many studio…

so I own legit copies. I have no need to crack it and its really easier to own the copies and get the back up than to buck the system and get a degree in computer code in order to crack it.

Dunno, most software is pretty easy to crack.…

I think drm is workable, and a viable solution, its just in draft stage at present. seems it can stop piracy for some, maybe not all

I think you miss the point. Once again, it isn't the downloader DRM needs to be effective against, it is the uploader.

Yes, DRM…

I'm a professional software user with nasty copy protection on it. I'm reasonably good at computer noodling and some of the stuff I use seems impossible to work around illegally.

You mean software tools you use professionally. eg Compliers, CAD programs, MS Office?
I would hardly consider it to be…

you keep going at the "clients are evil".

When have I said that, I said all people are inherently evil not just clients. :)
are you pretending they're not?

I'm an equal opportunities discriminator,

but my point remains, to focus on drm is evil is to throw the baby out…

you guys keep going at the drm is evil thing

Which is kind of ironic because you keep going at the "clients are evil". To me that sounds pretty stupid and not a good space for a business to be in, but hey, all I know is software so by…

Rubbish. You have been very badly informed

and your experience and expertise in this field is?

you didn't read my other comments.
I said effective can mean many things.
I said the alternative of not coming up with a solution is much worse than the inconvenience of not being able…

Back to my beef: I can illegally download music at much better quality than I can legitimately buy it at. That's crazy.

so shouldn't you be pushing for and making noise to get better quality downloads available via these sources and effective drm that lets you…

so shouldn't you be pushing for and making noise to get better quality downloads available via these sources and effective drm that lets you play these purchases on…

I think drm is workable, and a viable solution, its just in draft stage at present.

Rubbish. You have been very badly informed. If that were the case there would be no need for the draconian legislation that Judith Tizard and others overseas have happily whistled through on your behalf.

The problem with DRM is that it only effects those that are trying to do things legally.

not only affects you though, it affects anyone pirating your copies. I think drm is workable, and a viable solution, its just in draft stage at present. seems it can stop piracy for…

there is no such thing as "effective DRM"

depends on how you gauge "effective".
I would say that effective in these circumstances would be to take the edge off 'piss easy to steal" making it "hard for the technically stupid", and maybe even eating away at the "mildly ok on…

Tangent: Dan, I was obsessed by 'This Bitter Earth' by Dinah Washington in Killer of Sheep. I went straight to the computer after Auckland Film Society's showing...

And iTunes almost immediately got $1.79 of my money for it – iTunesPlus in fact. I really like being able to buy singles…

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pf2aafM6ws4

The only insight you have given us here us that you think music consumers are scum suckers.If that is what you think of the clientèle why are you in the industry? You…

iTunes doesn't seem to have much of interest and I have some sort of moral block on illegal downloading.

I wouldn't underestimate iTunes. I watched Charles Burnett's wonderful Killer of Sheep at Film Soc last night, full of great blues, R&B and jazz tracks, and found almost all of them deep…

It prevents you playing music you've paid for on your own devices. It actually, ludicrously, makes it quicker and easier to get music from pirate sites than to buy it legally.

Back to my beef: I can illegally download music at much better quality than I can legitimately buy it…

there is no such thing as "effective DRM"

depends on how you gauge "effective".
I would say that effective in these circumstances would be to take the edge off 'piss easy to steal" making it "hard for the technically stupid", and maybe even eating away at the "mildly ok on…

Accepting that trait in ourselves and doing the best to change our attitude then effective drm removes that last edge of temptation.

I agree 100%. Trouble is that little word, "effective". If you accept the simple fact that there is no such thing as "effective DRM" then this whole argument…

scum sucking?

that was meant in the latin sense of the term, :)

you know what I mean, we're not that pretty a species if you look at the general behaviour of genus over the course of our existence on this planet. The true and noble nature that we aspire…

You may as well say "They could stop it with a change in attitude" and leave it at that. DRM is useless if people are prepared to pirate music; it is pointless if they aren't.

well yes, but that doesn't take into account that man at his inner core is…

http://www.myspace.com/thenakedandfamous

"serenade" is the standout, the rest are ok

speaking of which, ripping the Naked & Famous cd to my mp3 player was a pain in the butt – are music companies still putting "anti-copy" stuff on cds?

In the end, Nero did the job. but it pissed me off.

Man, I hope not. That is exactly the sort of…

unprotected formats such as CD

speaking of which, ripping the Naked & Famous cd to my mp3 player was a pain in the butt – are music companies still putting "anti-copy" stuff on cds?

In the end, Nero did the job. but it pissed me off.

They could stop it with a change of attitude and copy protection though.

You may as well say "They could stop it with a change in attitude" and leave it at that. DRM is useless if people are prepared to pirate music; it is pointless if they aren't.

Change people's…

But that could change easily. I don't use Google products because I trust them particularly, just because they suck less than the alternatives. As they mature, they will have more people locked in and…

They can't stop it with copy protection.

They could stop it with a change of attitude and copy protection though. If media commentators explained the necessity for it and encouraged respect for the media it controlled.
If society frowned on piracy instead of looking at it as a right and…

No Gmail account then? Google Docs? Well, they still have a whole bunch of your search data. An evil company could do plenty bad things with that.

and you trust anyone to not access your data?
In the current way of the world I expect them to. Trust has got…

Not sure if i agree Rob. My problem is finding the time to listen to all the music I want to hear.

of course not for an informed individual such as yourself, but you got to admit compared to past times it seems like there is less inspiring stuff around…

Steam is doing pretty nicely for Valve.

Steam is not just a copy protection system. Also, from what I can see from a quick google, its copy protection has been cracked. Regardless, something like Steam just wouldn't work for music. With music the data is the same every time…

No Gmail account then? Google Docs? Well, they still have a whole bunch of your search data. An evil company could do plenty bad things with that.

Not to mention email sent to/from other people with gmail accounts. I'm not…

None of their schemes ever worked.

Steam is doing pretty nicely for Valve. And there are more than a few gaming studios simply abandoning the PC gaming business in part (doing console ports when they didn't bother in the past) or in full (no longer doing PC versions) and citing…

An evil company could do plenty bad things with that.

You could t least have made the effort of links to search engine/mail hosting companies turning stuff over to the Chinese government. You know you want to.

Well, they still have a whole bunch of your search data.

It's pretty…

(2) And more importantly, Google needs us to continue to place trust in it

I don't need to trust the company that tells me where to find information on the net, I just need it to do it efficiently.

No Gmail account then? Google Docs? Well, they still have a…

I'm pretty sure they said explicitly that Analytics data is not used. That would certainly be evil. I think it would also violate the Analytics terms of use.

They do use them, but sort of blindfolded, which I suppose explains why my numbers are different in Trends vs Analytics:…

During the 80's the software industry sunk huge amounts of time, talent and money into various "copy protection" schemes. They tried everything, up to and…

I found a record shop closing down in KL this week..90% off everything. Even at that discount it can get pricey when there is swags stuff just sitting…

I do feel that someone has to keep these local outlets going, and presumably else must be buying as well as me.

kudos for your actions Geoff. nice to see someone looking at the bigger picture and not just from their self serving perspective.

So I'm out of the loop. It's quiet here.

could also be that music journo's aren't informing you of music you would like. I does seem that convincing valid music is dying out, if you trust what you see and hear in the mainstream media, but there are people making…

(2) And more importantly, Google needs us to continue to place trust in it,

I don't need to trust the company that tells me where to find information on the net, I just need it to do it efficiently.

any company that accumulates vast swags of money is inherently evil…

Although I'm slightly surprised it's taken this long for you to turn up.

been spending time giving a little back to the community. doing Brendan Smyths work. Awesome young band. I'll flick you a copy when its done.

So for me, DRM isn't actually the major issue,

Its not a major issue for you cos you're looking at it from only one perspective, ie an audience member. you don't take into account why DRM is needed, you just see it as an inconvenience., because you're on the otherside…

There is Zoterp, which will take all the bibliographical information for you, but I don't think it has a 'send the librarians to work' function yet. Actually, I think it's secretly trying to put the librarians on the dole line.

Hmmm, I did wonder whether there was something already out…

I was going to say, why would you say something as uninformed short sighted and stupid as that but then I realised you were probably bored and baiting me, nice try mr brown, I'm not falling for it.

No, not baiting you. Although I'm slightly surprised it's taken this long…

aren't we over DRM yet?

..............???

So, I continue to buy CDs (the new Al Green and Death…

So, I continue to buy CDs (the new Al Green and Death…

Dammit.

I'm sure they'd hate if someone had devised a widget that you could click on that would scrape bibilographic data from the webpage you're viewing and send it on to the library....

There is Zoterp, which will take all the bibliographical information for you, but I don't think it has…

All of them, be they Halliburton, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Body Shop or Neighbourhood Hippy Organics, Inc. are out to make money for shareholders any way they can. Some of them manage to do this in an ostensibly fluffier fashion, that's all.

I disagree. I think Halliburton/KBR is objectively much more…

I recall an article that suggested 'evil' was there effectively defined as what the head of ethics said was evil.

When they were originally debating the idea of corporations in the US someone (Andrew Jackson?) described them as having…

Isn't that, y'know, evil?

I call bullshit on the idea that corporations come in evil/not evil varieties.

All of them, be they Halliburton, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Body Shop or Neighbourhood Hippy Organics, Inc. are out to make money for shareholders any way they can. Some of them manage to do…

Isn't that, y'know, evil?

Well, if you google "doing evil" the first page that comes up is some Corporate Information.

Way down the list comes the astonishing news that "You can make money without doing evil.".

What, you ask, defines "doing evil"? Well, it seems not being evil is:

you…

Russell, this might work for playing WMA files on a Mac: Flip4Mac.

Yep, I've got the paid version, and it lets me play and export lots of stuff via QuickTime

But not if there's Windows Media DRM present. And the files are only 128k anyway. Screw that. Gimme proper.

We use it a lot in our edit suite where we're running Final Cut Pro on multicore G5s and people womble in with stuff they've "helpfully" burned in some Windows-only format or other. It seems to convert just…

I never listen to music radio anymore

bFM? They're still ok, mostly.

i've installed Interclue. It's quite cool. Yay for firefox 3 and add-ons.

I just got into MGMT this weekend as well. I think climate change awareness is giving rise to a new wave of hippie music. http://hypem.com/search/caribou/1/caribou anyone?

I shall tell the guy who built it when he gets home from work, he'll be dead chuffed.

By all means do that. It had almost got to the point where I mostly couldn't be bothered interloaning items, because I couldn't be bothered filling out the form. Possibly the library…

So I've downloaded, and just been pimping it out, with a new add-ons, including Lazarus by the team behind interclue. I really missed the form saving feature that disappeared sometime from Netscape, so I'm looking forward to having it back.

I shall tell the guy who built it when he…

I never listen to music radio anymore. Too many ads, moronic DJs and far too much rap and hiphop – or…

Also the tv3 graph is really interesting – I think in the long run moving…

I'm pretty much on strike with the iTunes Store unless it's iTunes Plus

Abso-fricken-lutely. And why doesn't the itunes store have a preference to ONLY show Plus content?