Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Good Intentions

Will de Cleene

Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:17:19 +1200

He’s also on record saying Workbridge – the usual go-to employment agency for the disabled – isn’t much cop.

That's been my experience too. Although Deaf Employment consultants don't seem to fare much better. It's more be a case of over-supply of talent and no demand from employers for it.…

diversitynz

Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:07:31 +1200

Check out what we're doing at Diversityworks. Self-employment makes a lot of sense when compared with these do-gooding charlatans. Not for everyone, but certainly levels playing fields.

Islander

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:30:24 +1200

Report Reply

Oh, bloody timeout function-
my added comment was

"But love the punning!"

Islander

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:13:45 +1200

Y'know Ian – I've never met – or heard- or otherwise learned about ANYONE eating Egretta alba or any other kind of localised egret...the bird/s, while largish, never seem to have been targetted as kai...feathers, yes, especially breeding plumage ( us primitive natives caught 'em, plucked the feathers and released…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 21 Jul 2012 08:38:02 +1200

-well, I did all 3. Hard.
egrets, she'd had a few
(what's more I hear
they're good in stew...)
" – )

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:57:37 +1200

Dickens was a hero to one particular Russian novelist. It's quite a story. His books sweat even in translation. Raskolnikov, a movie that would hurt.

Islander

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:56:11 +1200

Yes.
And Dickens.
In ANZ? Very few.

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:54:15 +1200

Disclaimer: I edit my posts as my spelling aint as gud as it should b. Young chaps are struggling out there with their anglo-saxons.

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:40:23 +1200

Well of course, still every one should consider their own recent education and its' gaps, that is if we want to have a serious debate about a more efficient education system.

Still Tolstoy would have a made a great lawyer.

Islander

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:34:40 +1200

Tempting (licking with double-tongue hot primate lips) – what isss your case??

*Obviously I get your terror! Magnify it! Crunch it down on your opponent's eyes! Small price to pay-

Oh?

You have met us? Primateophidians?

Maybe consult Joe?

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:29:45 +1200

All experienced lawyers must want to write novels. The things they must consider are complex and surprising.

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:26:15 +1200

fukkin' terrifying one I theenk!

$1000.00 an hour for your terror.

Islander

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:18:09 +1200

But what a lawyer you would have made.

fukkin’ terrifying one I theenk!

I'm really good at going for the guts – or jugular – of any argument.

Which is why no-0ne but my mother (& one of my sisters who has the same evilkiller instinct) will play Scrabble with me,…

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:43:37 +1200

bush lawyer :)

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:43:14 +1200

for a model it's not bad

Disagree, for the wage subsidy component. Hard to persuade businesses to employ disabled people because we add value when even state agencies need it to cost nothing before they will.

Far too much policy like this that doesn't take a big enough view.

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:32:00 +1200

But what a lawyer you would have made.

Islander

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:23:53 +1200

f we want to be serious about looking after young autistic citizens it’s not so much finding jobs for them in the long run but giving them channels for an invigorating teen education.

Now, if only there'd a programme back in the 1960s for young highly-visually-disabled people -who also happened…

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:11:57 +1200

College is still basically run on Victorian School principles with a slow but steady modern drive to lower class sizes . This gives you the ability to put teenagers into more controllable and focused groups. People are hard to control in groups of more than 1 , it's exponential, and…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:47:47 +1200

It's all a bit strange when you think of the number of people who are disabled, and every one is lumped in this hodgepodge, although everyone has different needs and it's been proved, time and time again, that when barriers are removed, and people are allowed to be productive, it…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:49:40 +1200

One of my RPGing friends has cerebral palsy, and despite graduating with a Masters degree, still hasn't been accepted for a proper job yet. He's also on record saying Workbridge – the usual go-to employment agency for the disabled – isn't much cop. Luckily for him, he's soon to be…

Hilary Stace

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:56:03 +1200

I think Mainstream is basically a good programme because it was largely developed by disabled people, and it makes it relatively easy for all at the beginning by trying to build relationships. Employers/agencies etc have to create a new job and for that get a new employee, and provide a…

Tamara

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:27:31 +1200

Fair enough! What I was getting at the the lumping together of children at I suppose you might say either end of the bell curve. But no need to get into that.

Jeremy Eade

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:06:40 +1200

creative and media trades for young disabled people

I've met a few young men (13-18) on the spectrum and many have a wild, creative spirit that is superior at times to the passion of their non-spectrum class mates . These guys are also generally huge consumers of media and culture.…

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:40:04 +1200

Employment is tricky enough, without delving into the intricacies of the education system's engagement with disability.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:37:07 +1200

I'm not sure what you're asking? I have specialised in overall strategy and positioning, so I pay attention to how things are described and pitched.

'Special' is interesting if you think who it's really helping – often parents struggling with stereotyped societal responses about their family.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 13:35:10 +1200

we need a bit of help with coping with

interesting who often has needs for support :)

Jackie Clark

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:50:47 +1200

You know where I work so you know that all kids need guidance. Some kids, though, like the wee boy on the ASD we have at the moment, and who races around at a rate of knots, we need a bit of help with coping with. We had a child…

Tamara

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:49:12 +1200

I see what you're saying. And I agree that there is a problem with that paradigm. Our primary school has a "special needs coordinator" and they define "special needs" as those with learning difficulties and those who are "gifted". That person's job is to coordinate additional support for both types.…

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:42:14 +1200

They had a policy of hiring people with disabilities for 25% of their staff

Which is what they're not doing now – simply requiring public agencies to hire rather than bribing them at great expense. There are pros and cons, naturally. I'd forgotten that story so ta for reminding us.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:40:01 +1200

Oh I'm hard to offend. :)

I am saying that everyone gets support in some way or another – we just ignore some of the more obvious sorts.

As colleagues have pointed out to me, we routinely provide PAs for senior managers. We provide chairs in offices and other venues…

Tamara

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:16:25 +1200

Sacha, do you mean don't they all need support? If you do then they answer may be "no". My daughter sailed through 1 1/2 years of kindy with no issues at all. No exaggeration. (New entrance has been a bit trickier).

Look, I don't know anything about disability matters so…

Andre

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:10:28 +1200

When I was 16 I left home and got a job in the accounts department of a government department. They had a policy of hiring people with disabilities for 25% of their staff. Because there were so many disabled people it was a very inclusive environment. I was surrounded by…

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:50:23 +1200

don't they all?

Jackie Clark

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:39:28 +1200

No, unfortunately, we're pretty radical in our views on what happens when a kid who might require a bit of support turns up.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:10:19 +1200

That's a valid critique. Are your professional circles discussing similarly?

Jackie Clark

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:07:55 +1200

Well, in my opinion, if everyone is being catered for, then "inclusiveness" becomes moot. And the word itself implies exclusion.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:30:31 +1200

inclusiveness – which in and of itself is somewhat of an obnoxious notion, in my opinion

I'd be interested in hearing more.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:18:58 +1200

children with special needs (once again, not a term I like using)

Let's stop then – options include disabled children, children with disabilities, or even 'children'.

Sacha

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:17:17 +1200

I'd politely observe that the rest of what you say contradicts your first sentence, which is my point. Scarce resources are wasted by subsidising salaries rather than other things that might get more disabled people into work or make the experience more valuable.

Glad to see the programme now includes…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:05:15 +1200

Thanks Jackie, really appreciate that. While my experience of these things is highly personal, and therefore anecdotal, I know that it's often those who've had to deal with being 'different' who display a real aptitude for caring.

Jackie Clark

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:25:20 +1200

When I started training to be a teacher, in 1994, one of our year's intake was a young woman who had CP. She did her first practicum, and then left. In a sector which prides itself on inclusiveness – which in and of itself is somewhat of an obnoxious notion,…

Hilary Stace

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:17:35 +1200

Mainstream is a basically good programme but poorly resourced and thinly spread. Very few real sustainable jobs seem to be created following the two year subsidy, leaving those who started with such high hopes very disappointed. You can only access the programme once, and there is not much else available.…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:11:13 +1200

Sing it sister xx

Joe Wylie

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 06:52:10 +1200

Worth noting that for years the NZ government has been bribing state agencies to employ disabled people by fully subsidising their pay for a couple of years. We can guess how long many of the jobs lasted.
I remember a number of mostly young women losing their jobs in early…

Hilary Stace

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:22:57 +1200

Agree with everything you say, Russell.

By the way the Government's Mainstream supported employment programme has just been extended to the private sector, for organisations with more than 20 employees. Subsidised 100% the first year and less the second, with the idea it becomes a sustainable job. Can't find this…

Grant Taylor

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:20:54 +1200

In a former life, I ran a charity. I couldn't count the number of times "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" came to mind during that time. Sometimes it was hard to be polite and tactful in declining to the offers of "help", so shallow and thoughtless…

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:26:35 +1200

“well it was fully funded so there was no financial consideration”

That could…

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:22:32 +1200

Thanks for joining the conversation, Tanya. Loved your recent John Kirwan episode, by the way.

Tanya Black

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:05:35 +1200

Great response Russell, I too found the language and tone pitying, true their intentions are good. I know that New Zealand's involvement in Creative Spirit started with one person at Fairfax wanting to create an opportunity for someone who might not normally get a look in. I suggested to Annamarie…

Will de Cleene

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:01:09 +1200

Disabled workers as overqualified Baldricks are very common. Deaf people with an undergrad degree have a slightly higher unemployment rate than Norms without one.

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:18:25 +1200

Did someone actually say that?

Um, yeah.

Sacha

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:03:37 +1200

Happy to be at your next meeting. :)

Emma Hart

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:40:25 +1200

disabled people as handy for "the jobs you don't have time for — like cleaning out the coffee machine"

I read this, and said a Bad Word. That's my daughter you're talking about.

My son's been planning to have a Gap Year next year, and I can't help but worry…

Hebe

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:39:08 +1200

These guys want to do the right thing

That’s the frustration of many helpees; good intentions become top-down “this is how we are going to help you” edicts. What is needed is for the helper to ask the helpee; “What do you need? What do you want? How can we…

James W

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:38:55 +1200

Most especially do not present disabled people as handy for “the jobs you don’t have time for – like cleaning out the coffee machine”

Did someone actually say that?

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:21:18 +1200

Congratulations on a reasoned response Russell. Giving the fingers must have been awfully tempting.

I got myself introduced to Fairfax NZ CEO Allen Williams after the speeches, just so I didn’t walk away without saying anything. These guys want to do the right thing and they deserve to hear about…

Hebe

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:01:29 +1200

Congratulations on a reasoned response Russell. Giving the fingers must have been awfully tempting.

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:54:17 +1200

On a related note, Dan Salmon’s documentary, Pictures of Susan – the story of autistic “outsider artist” Susan King – is playing at this year’s film festivals.

Enormously fucked off this is the winner of the 2012 Irreconcilable Film Festival Scheduling Clash award. But one can hope that on the…

Public Address

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:54:17 +1200

Discussion from blog post.