Sssshhhh...

For some added info, Russell, banning someone...does this mean they can't look at the site either? Doesn't seem likely, but then, I'm new to all this and don't really know.

Someone who's been banned can do anything on the site you can do without being logged in. So view but…

For some added info, Russell, banning someone...does this mean they can't look at the site either? Doesn't seem likely, but then, I'm new to all this and don't really know.

I laughed though at the name, but then the Scots side of me bridled a…

Adding…

Quite — I know people I've never seen in a church beyond weddings, funerals and christenings (but only…

Well, it wasn't me.

Must have been Graeme Edgeler.

I could have sworn there was more than one of him.

Which one? ;)

I applaud your post-bounce shaming policy – and you've more than earned the right by now to get rid of problem commenters pronto. All strength to your deleting finger.

Mr Derailing Asshole McTroll

The next time we're in the same city, I'd like you to say this out loud so I can use it as a ring-tone.

...gets wiped out by the runaway truck! ;-)

To…

Ta – sounds like you'd know more than most already :)

May drop you a…

No, not really – it didn't get down to that level of detail – but it is a good reminder – I'm deaf (you should see my $9k hearing aids), my brother is in a wheelchair and my other brother is blind. So I will make…

Thanks.

Anyone talking about disability angles?

Anyway, sticking my professional elected rep…

Hey, some times you've just got to join Mr. Cee-Lo Green in an un-sanitized chorus of 'Fuck You'. (yeah, you…

Well, not the whole conversation, and only one guy was being condescending, I think.

As to the issue of multiple marriage partners, it was…

[ETA: less is more, frequently]

It’s quite depressing knowing my desire provokes discussion that equivocates it to the worst of humanity.

There's always that derailing asshole guy in these discussions, and then it inevitably turns into one of those rhetorical logic-offs... when it's actually *your life* we're talking about. Sorry. :/

The worst-of-humanity equates to pyschopaths, religious or otherwise, who will…

marrying horses

I think Lenny Bruce was having a good old dig at WASP conventions around sex and marriage in Psychopathia Sexualis.
Unfortunately, back then it went over most peoples heads. And, it seems, it still does.
I can quote more verses if you like…….Sorry if I came across as…

It’s quite depressing knowing my desire provokes discussion that equivocates it to the worst of humanity. Since when did discussion of heterosexual marriage lead to discussion of incest, marrying horses, poly whatever, and other scintillating titbits and innanities which in the end are nothing to do with heterosexual marriage? Or…

That's the best I could do with horses and marriage. I need better material to work with.

It’s quite depressing knowing my desire provokes…

Muahahaha!

What? When did we get voted off the island?

Thanks to a lack of sleep, I don't currently have the mental agility to do sums good.

Well. I'd have thought hundreds of thousands.

I remember hearing on National Radio in the last few months someone who had done research on genetic disorders and relatives. Can't quite recall whether the work done was based…

I don’t think this is a wall I want to keep banging my head against, but I can quite legitimately compare Key’s supposed intention…

I can see it clearly now: "Well I want to sleep with my horse, but not until we're married. Got to do these things right".

Bwahaha! 10 points, that male person!

Must have been listening to Lenny Bruce's Pscyh-o-pathia Sexualis

"Im in love with a horse that comes from Dallas.…

Same. The impact on clan relationships may also be a useful way of considering some of the other points raised.

Depends if people…

Indeed, hence the distinction.

You are also calling for disrespect of individuals for what they do and say.

Well, that's a corollary, but not what I meant... in isolation, anyway. I believe in the right to be…

Yeah that sounds reasonable. I’ve not looked into the issues around siblings/part siblings or…

Anyway, if it was good enough for some Pharaohs...

Minor point, but I think the reasoning was (latterly anyway) more along…

They might as well have asked if we'd quite finished beating our spouses lately.

Also, they were strangely silent on Rev Capill's utterly indefensible kiddy-fiddling episode – Google draws a blank. [[http://www.familyfirst.org.nz/media_centre/media_releases/releases/11_01_09_veitch_court_case_needs_urgency?download=1|And your mileage may vary on…

I "Strongly Agreed" to…

By “religion”, I meant the faith itself, a person’s spirituality, not the organisation.

If only it were that easy. Cause the number of people who use the loophole of, well I/we are human and fallible but my/our god/spirituality cant be judged by my failings, is truly mind boggling.

By…

You mean overriding desire to be in power, right?

(I’d also love to change that Part name from __Crimes against…

Again, genetics issues. This is one area of apparent morality enforcement that can stand up to scrutiny on other grounds. It's not like the prohibitions on excrement porn, where the act is legal but a…

Sorry to help drag it down this road.

Not to say your brother and sister would have an easy time of it – it's their relationship that's causing their problems in the community, not their inability to legally…

No,…

Then they found out they were related, realised they could never have kids, but wanted to continue their relationship anyway.

This did not…

Ah, eugenics-baiting. Let the fun begin!

__Seriously, if poking the FamilyFist nest has caused all the…

Personally, and I'm by no means speaking for anyone else, I don't think there should be laws against incestuous marriage between consenting adults.

Ick factor aside (cos, let's face it, ick factor is a piss poor…

Would you also argue that, since gay people make up a small proportion of society and…

Small matter of the inherited health issues that come along with mating with one's immediate relatives. Not just siblings, but also parents and children. Ignoring the "ick" factor, incestuous relationships are illegal…

The point, Craig, that you're so cunningly obfuscating, was that Clark's long service to her country, not to mention her hard labour entering parliament as one of the first women to do so and then battling against…

Yes but. How many of these couples are there, really? 2-3 every decade?

And how likely is it that they are going to seek…

**Mark as many spaces as you need to show all the people…

Certainly, informed consent deals with necrophilia, bestiality, and incest between adults and children. However, there are cases of incest between adult siblings where there is no coercion or imbalance of power – that is,…

Only if the Opposition can, well, oppose. So far Labour have demonstrated seemingly invincible incompetence when it comes to seizing the multitude of opportunities that've been dropped in their…

Stanley H. Tweedle in a sidecar, he's a middle-aged man in a suit. Judging by his prose, I thought that he was an adolescent pimple farm.

Damn it. Going +4 is a bit like saying ‘me too’. Yeah, me too.

+5.

Was there a point there, Sally, beyond you like Clark and despise Key? And I certainly hope you're not saying there's a long-service pass…

Emma's link doesn't seem to work, but this does.

My favourite so far on that page:
"Tiger Woods to Convert to Islam

Obama’s plan for Sharia Law may benefit someone. [...]"

Typical Franks. He doesn't care about whether the dog loves him...

see, that was your problem

Recommended. A concise insight into their mindset.

Curbing emissions must be the work o the devil. Or it's just a fad if you listen to Bill English.

How about this: make a pass in the Turing Test a mandatory prerequisite for a marriage license.

Jack, thanks.

“Polygamy” refers only to having multiple wives, while “polyandry” denotes multiple husbands.

Not sure if anyone got in here first, but, ObPedant: polygamy refers to having multiple spouses, polygyny is multiple wives, and polyandry is multiple husbands. Polygamy and polygyny are usually conflated, but it’s worth remembering that polygamy is…

If one must. How about the fact that the objection would also apply to the time when the instution of marriage was created? Couldn't somebody have said back then well, so long as we're somehow into marrying men and women now, why…

Try a lot closer to home – IIRC, martial rape was not criminalized in New Zealand until 1985.

BTW, a…

That's such a loaded term. I believe interspecies erotica better expresses your love for your uncle’s cousin’s aunt’s daughter’s husband’s pet pig

I must apologise for my ad hominem ripostes. Actually, must I?

NZ did away with the spousal rape loophole in the 70's. So England's not alone in having an unworthy history on the subject.

Is it important? After all, if gay marriage is the slippery slope to legalised bestiality I don't think the anatomical configuration of the pig matters.

However. He's really real, and he really does want you to vote for the hottest Kiwi Female blogger of 2011. What a guy.…

Custard can be "consistent", that doesn't mean that it is meaningful.

My argument took informed consent from a position of equality as its basis and should anyone think that that is something self-evident that simply needed articulating, that is not the case at all. The word "rape" comes from…

Hmm, is that a male or a female pig?

Damn it. Going +4 is a bit like saying ‘me too’. Yeah, me too.

Exactly like, as it happens.

But what about the animals? I demand to be allowed to…

But if we must... I'd like to thank my director, Steven, the make-up people, the planet Saturn and its rings...

+2 (I have two hands, and they’re both clapping)

No-one argued for incest,…

No, what you did was a rather crude version of the same old “OMFG, let the gays marry and it’s incestuous polygamy (with farm animals) by lunchtime” same old. I’m sorry to tell you this, but the House could go into extreme urgency tomorrow, and…

Actually, I don't think that I have to offer a "good" reason :)

By "religion", I meant the faith itself, a person's spirituality, not the organisation. By "respect", I mean that one should offer personal respect for…

What is your argument in favour of gay marriage again? Please show me how I got it wrong?

Name calling and slating the argument as "unsubstantiated" actually does not displace my argument, it just…

If you'd like to engage in a rational discussion, then yes, we will debate this with you. But while you are spouting unsubstantiated bollocks, it's just not worth it.

Attack the person and not the argument. Logic 101 FAIL

If your argument is that grown adults should be able to have their relationships recognised then by what non-arbitrary and irrational means do you draw…

Just one."

Every single one of you who offers the marriage equality argument (and the argument that if two people love each other then…) all advocate for such a thing. It is called…

I’m assuming both. YMMV.

ETA:
You want to cherry-pick among the alternative relationships present in society and sa y yours is ok but yours is not.
What? I don’t even, eh?

What you want is unequal. You want to cherry-pick among the alternative relationships present in…

*sigh* I think someone's slippery slope is greased with bullshit. I'm going to do you the courtesy of assuming you're merely hideously ill-informed rather…

Religions, whatever one may think of them (and I am an agnostic myself), are not simply brands or franchises like utility companies.

They should be, then we could sue them for false pretences. Fail to see why they should be given "protection" merely for being labeled so.

Polly want a cracker?

Religions, whatever one may think of them (and I am an agnostic myself), are not simply brands or franchises like utility companies.

If only they were utility companies and some kind of benign brand. I think this kind of thinking is a luxury only NZers can accommodate.

it is still…

Consent is by definition informed, without coercion or obligation and between equals in power and cogniscance. A dog cannot consent because it is not an equal in cognition or power, so the comparison is absurd and a red…

Agreed. (Although I also would prefer another…

Oops!

Overloaded by PAS readers!!! Bet ya.

Or possibly even the Anonymous/Planet Chanology guys.

As a teacher I know something about this. :)

What they really needed was an answer;

– Yes and No.

Have a feeling we may have swayed their demographic just a little bit. Maybe the server had an automatic shutdown if too much logic was applied during the taking of the survey.

I feel like I'm all 4Chan and shit.

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.

What we have here is opinion suppression.

So I suggest we all speculate wildly and start all sorts of rumours about what Key's opinion is.

That'll get him to come out with it before…

It’s times like these I wish I weren’t just a twitter flitterer.

Ok, FF, first, define ‘the family’.…

I'll get my coat.

Done – although it felt uncomfortably like I was trolling, clicking "Strongly Disagree" so many times in succession...

If he was a conservative he'd have opinions, he doesn't.

He is aiming for the centrist niche. Some competence, affability and an aspiration to do nothing more than reflect projected attributes from the widest possible cross section.

"I'm comfortable with that."

There. Didn't need 26 of the words, or the actual reading experience for that matter.

Path of least resistance. Why bother expending energy to develop well-thought out policies with credible justifications when all you have to do is dog-whistle?

It's what being a conservative is all about. Especially when the population is aging (median age is nearly 37, up 2.2 years in the last decade, according to Granny), and that means more voters who…

Trust me, there are things that never made it into the books...

I'm, like, related to people too, so I get that. I'd just love it if politicians were a little less focussed on those people's prejudices.

I have elderly relatives from working class backgrounds, who were life-long Labour voters until civil unions. Now they will never, ever vote for the Labour Party again. I don't think they're unusual for their generation – so when you're as poll-driven as Key…

(But I am an unrealistic softie pinko, so there's that.)

This would still be infringing activity, citizen. You are guilty of thoughtcrime. Remain where you are until our enforcers arrive

Its a big part of his appeal.

Cautious edging is Key's default position on almost every single subject of substance he's questioned on…

It was using that fact as a cute excuse to refuse…

I'm wondering if 3D isn't the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse.

It must be fun being a child in your house.

Oddly, just on Saturday night, my son was sitting on the front porch with his head buried in his hands.

Can hardly wait for "I think I can, I know I can"

Only for the bits with direct quotes of Murray McCully, I hope.

It must be fun being a child in your house.

Well, it does sort of start with a "c". But please, let's not eh?

Really don't want to think about John Key and porn at the same time.

Is someone willing to volunteer to read it and give us the summary in 30 words or less?

I tell you what we'll do. If someone buys it, Megan and I will record it as an audiobook. She'll use her Radio Voice, and I'll use my "Turns Thomas the Tank…

Undoubtedly, someone will scan it…

"The priesthood has many opportunities to express your love for your fellow man...."