Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Friday Music: History, motherfuckers

Chris Waugh

Thu, 26 Sept 2013 13:31:43 +1200

That would have been before Clapton came out as a nazi?

Wow, I was completely unaware of that.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 26 Sept 2013 13:09:46 +1200

when Eric Clapton called to ask if he could cover it

That would have been before Clapton came out as a nazi?

Robyn Gallagher

Thu, 26 Sept 2013 12:35:24 +1200

As a pleasing postscript, Duncan Grieve's longform profile on Lorde in the October Metro is well worth a read. Partly he wonders the same thing that Sweetman wondered – is it really possible for a 16-year-old to have achieved all this without being a puppet? The answer: hell yes. There's…

Robyn Gallagher

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 17:51:39 +1200

Back in the land of Lorde, I was browsing the #lorde tag on Tumblr. As well as dozens of covers of "Royals" (and general declarations of adoration) there are also make-up tutorials to recreate the looks in her music videos. Lorde is a style icon!

But the best comment I…

Chris Waugh

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 16:05:19 +1200

In Marley's case, no one's quite sure who shot up his place,

Well, yes, but Ben referenced I Shot the Sheriff, which predates the attack by a few years. But given the time and place he grew up in, I suppose that could easily refer to some much earlier incident…

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 12:47:35 +1200

..and Westwood got shot in a drive-by.

Russell Brown

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 11:38:28 +1200

Surely we’re talking about stars being on the receiving end of death threats and bullets? Still, he does claim to have shot Sheriff John Brown in a kind of pre-emptive self-defence.

In Marley's case, no one's quite sure who shot up his place, but it seems to have been related…

Chris Waugh

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 11:24:53 +1200

Surely we're talking about stars being on the receiving end of death threats and bullets? Still, he does claim to have shot Sheriff John Brown in a kind of pre-emptive self-defence.

BenWilson

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 10:36:20 +1200

Was that about his music?

Are you saying he never did shoot the sheriff?

Chris Waugh

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 10:01:02 +1200

Was that about his music?

Probably not. Jamaica was a political mess at the time, lots of violence between supporters of two parties. It happened a couple of days before he played a concert organised by Michael Manley, then he went into exile in London, returning to play the One…

"chris"

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 08:21:27 +1200

When John Lennon compared their popularity to that of Christianity, records were burnt and death threats were issued. Then when John Lennon married Yoko Ono...

Kumara Republic

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 02:22:58 +1200

Beatlemania garnered much more hysterical crowds in its day, and Beatlemaniacs didn't seem petty about it back then. So what's changed? I suspect a lot more than just the Internet becoming accessible to the masses.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 01:10:30 +1200

#FirstWorldProblems

Yeah, nah... Folks who insist on being arseholes are everyone's problem. And if you ever come across someone who's been on the receiving end of cyber-bullying/harassment please don't snark it as "first world problems".

nzlemming

Sat, 21 Sept 2013 00:34:32 +1200

Was that about his music?

Chris Waugh

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 20:06:24 +1200

Indeed. Bob Marley even had gunmen storm his home attempting to kill him.

Robyn Gallagher

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 14:18:38 +1200

#FirstWorldProblems

I'm sure popular singers in developing countries have the same sort of issues.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 13:15:16 +1200

Did you see Lorde’s toots about getting death threats from Miley fans*, outraged their their queen has been displaced by some pretender to the throne?

#FirstWorldProblems

Russell Brown

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 13:00:58 +1200

Did you see Lorde’s toots about getting death threats from Miley fans*, outraged their their queen has been displaced by some pretender to the throne?

No, but I saw one Lana Del Rey tweeter who ventured that Lorde might have a point in what she said about Lana report that…

Robyn Gallagher

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 12:55:51 +1200

BTW, "Royals" has been nominated for a Silver Scroll this year, but I really want to know is if the overseas success of the song will be enough to knock "Don't Dream It's Over" off its decade-long reign as APRA NZ's most performed work overseas. The last song to do…

Robyn Gallagher

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 12:49:47 +1200

It's just dislodged 'Wrecking ball' at No.1 on the iTunes chart.

Did you see Lorde's toots about getting death threats from Miley fans*, outraged their their queen has been displaced by some pretender to the throne?

That's actually pretty amazing. It puts the whole Sweetman hooha into perspective. If you're…

Russell Brown

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 12:36:23 +1200

Hmm. Perhaps the run of 'Royals' at number on one the US chart ain't over yet.

It's just dislodged 'Wrecking ball' at No.1 on the iTunes chart.

Russell Brown

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 12:20:25 +1200

He seems determined to wilfully mischaracterise the whole situation.

But my name is spelt right, so I'm calling that a win and leaving it there.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 11:40:46 +1200

It's not clear to me why Mr Drinnan would feel the need to defend Mr Sweetman. I can't see the value in that position.

I'm pretty certain nobody has suggested Sweetman should not be "allowed" to post his opinions.

What many people have made clear though is that they found…

Chris Waugh

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 10:56:13 +1200

gives a masterclass in missing the point.

I'm not sure he missed the point so much as quite deliberately gave the point the widest berth possible.

Sweetman's view was that it was being marketed and hyped as something it was not

Well, yes, and the real problem was with everything…

Danielle

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 10:20:26 +1200

One for the No Shit files: "Reviewers should be able to say what they wanted."

Russell Brown

Fri, 20 Sept 2013 10:14:12 +1200

Sigh ...

John Drinnan covers the stoush, and gives a masterclass in missing the point.

Kyle Matthews

Thu, 19 Sept 2013 12:15:37 +1200

Not exactly pop, but this guy has talent :)

Nice. Sending that to my partner.

Russell Brown

Thu, 19 Sept 2013 11:48:35 +1200

Sam Hayes' extended Lorde interview for 3rd Degree.

Rob Stowell

Thu, 19 Sept 2013 09:29:19 +1200

Not exactly pop, but this guy has talent :)
http://youtu.be/4YIeU5MyZS0

JacksonP

Thu, 19 Sept 2013 07:11:57 +1200

I've enjoyed pretty much all I've heard from Hollie Fullbrook and Tiny Ruins. Currently touring with Calexico in Australia, after the New Zealand tour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnqc4falhGk

Robyn Gallagher

Thu, 19 Sept 2013 04:19:10 +1200

Under You is a brilliant pop song with the hookiest of choruses (though the video is a bit underwhelming). Esther Stephens is awesome! With all the discussion at the moment, you'd think the only popstars out there were Lorde and Miley Cyrus, but actually there's a whole lot of good…

Sacha

Thu, 19 Sept 2013 00:42:27 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJT3aMKz_R4

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 23:51:43 +1200

Sweet! Are we doing this now? I saw Esther Stephens at the Wine Cellar last week. I love her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp2GOX-us8A

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 23:25:04 +1200

This might be a good place to remind people of the very talented Flip Grater, who’s also overseas performing just now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO8p3kR3fKc&list=PL4A91A4994EC7CE85&index=9

B Jones

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 21:46:23 +1200

Yeah, but the Commies and Nazis being 20th century guys, the pay's not that good. There's only one ghetto blaster for drowning out the boy music that we all secretly realise is the only good stuff and would just take over if we let it; and the Alanis cassette's starting…

Rich Lock

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 21:00:21 +1200

I think Aggressive Trendy Lefty Feminists don’t actually have paid work.

I assumed you were all secretly funded by some sort of Commie-Nazi slush fund. Zombie Stalin on the Moon, or something.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 20:24:09 +1200

History
Lorde scores the longest domination on Billboard's Nielsen BDS-based Alternative Songs chart by a woman (credited as a lead artist).

"Royals" leads the list for a sixth week, passing the five-week reign of Alanis Morissette's fellow U.S. breakthrough hit "You Oughta Know" in 1995.

...

Weeks At No. 1,…

Sacha

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 20:10:52 +1200

Story on 3rd Degree tonight on TV3, some time after 8.40pm. Six months of work apparently.

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 20:07:43 +1200

Revealing interview with Ella (5min vid).

Waiting for her cowboy hat! She's very collected and very charming.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 19:33:52 +1200

Revealing interview with Ella (5min vid).

Roger Lacey

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 18:43:51 +1200

wanton character assassination.
The guy wrote some vile things in a review of a 16 year old female performer. He's being called a dick for doing so and rightly so. The reaction here strong because it is a forum where women feel free to express an opinion without being abused.

Sacha

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 17:53:02 +1200

nightsoil, they used to call it
#dirt

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 17:43:35 +1200

...the next day he will invariably regale his audience with the dirt he, and his team of trusty helpers working tirelessly overnight, have dug up on said troublesome guest
digging up dirt? So in this case you mean... his other reviews?

Jackie Clark

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:55:43 +1200

He loves Breaks Co-op too ;)

B Jones

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:42:24 +1200

Lorde’s talent endorsed by a fairly big name .

Lena Dunham tweeted positively about her the other day. Someone else who is ridiculously talented for her age.

Tom Beard

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:42:13 +1200

Heh. The "consequences" are currently about twelve people in this thread saying "man, that was kinda dickish". Also: STALINISM. :)

Snap!

Tom Beard

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:34:44 +1200

But the point here is that consequence free should not be an excuse for wanton character assassination.

The consequence of being a dick is that people will point out that your character is, well, a bit dickish. Pointing that out is not "assassination".

Danielle

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:34:41 +1200

Heh. The "consequences" are currently about twelve people in this thread saying "man, that was kinda dickish". Also: STALINISM. :)

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:30:26 +1200

consequence free should not be an excuse for wanton character assassination. And that is EXACTLY what has occurred here.

Yes, this is what Sweetman tried to do to Lorde. And he is reaping the consequences.

JacksonP

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:28:03 +1200

I'm starting to wish I was elsewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aK6JnyFmk

Chris Waugh

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:15:07 +1200

And the louder you shout, the truer it gets.

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:14:56 +1200

Lorde's talent endorsed by a fairly big name .

Dean Papa

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 15:11:14 +1200

It is a free country, and it’s not consequence free, and I’m not suggesting it should be otherwise. But the point here is that consequence free should not be an excuse for wanton character assassination. And that is EXACTLY what has occurred here. Don’t believe me? Well, if you have…

Chris Waugh

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 14:22:36 +1200

My current rule of thumb when reading his work is (literally, this is true) to assume that he is 100% wrong.
[...]

..& yeah, he wrote about Dresden Dolls,

Heh, wow, so I had a little search for Dresden Dolls and it seems the "100% wrong" rule works quite well.

Danielle

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 14:09:20 +1200

I think Aggressive Trendy Lefty Feminists don't actually have paid work. We just wander picaresquely around the internet pretending to be offended and meanly censoring innocent nice guys who are trying to tell The Truth About The World.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpu_PV3BTfI

(The bassist on this live version is kicking some groovy 70s…

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 14:07:26 +1200

My current rule of thumb when reading his work is (literally, this is true) to assume that he is 100% wrong.

I have to say, one of the very few pieces I've read that was positive, he was writing about Regurgitator. I was mortified.

..& yeah, he wrote about Dresden Dolls,…

B Jones

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:58:51 +1200

computer programming job / Regurgitator

I thought we were builders who listened to Melissa Etheridge. Now I'm confused.

The idea that anyone's faking outrage because we don't like Simon whatsit is nuts. I'd never heard of him, and I've only just barely heard of Lorde, but anyone writing about a…

Danielle

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:58:08 +1200

Yeah, I reckon she did pretty well there too. I've seen a lot worse singing on Later. (I'm still a bit Do Not Want about the vocal mannerisms but I'm sure I'll get over it. :) )

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:55:37 +1200

My current rule of thumb when reading his work is (literally, this is true) to assume that he is 100% wrong. I hadn’t actually heard any Lorde tracks, but after reading this PA piece about his review, my genuine reaction was “Oh, Sweetman hates it? It’s probably good.” So I…

John Russell

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:53:26 +1200

The validity of the statement that women think more with their hearts than minds, WITH RESPECT TO TASTE IN MUSIC, is totally and utterly irrelevant. The bone of contention here is whether me, Simon, or anyone for that matter, has the right to even suggest such a thing.

Of course…

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:50:19 +1200

It’s quite a high-stakes thing to be doing

I really love how much she can do with a low-key delivery. The comparison to Bjork stands up, I think.

Russell Brown

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:44:47 +1200

Her voice sounds like it’s struggling through, particularly at the beginning of the song.

Nerves at the start, I think. It's quite a high-stakes thing to be doing. Otoh, Lana Del Rey on the same circuit last year got totally found out.

Lilith __

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:38:22 +1200

Lorde a few hours ago on Later With Jools Holland:

She has presence.

She did great! Perhaps a little hesitant at the start, but she owned it!

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:38:02 +1200

I'm a bit busy to engage much further though, I need to go paint my nails and listen to Taylor Swift.
.. Ach! wait – scratch that – computer programming job / Regurgitator. I guess that's how you can tell an aggressive feminist! Man brains. Pity I don't have a…

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:37:26 +1200

Indeed, that weird line between awkward & entertaining, like kitchen nightmares, except fake.

I'm a bit busy to engage much further though, I need to go paint my nails and listen to Taylor Swift.

I do feel kind of sorry for Sweetman now though, standing defenceless against the ravening lesbian horde…

Megan Wegan

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:25:39 +1200

I'm just poking my head up to say that I am real busy, but this is basically the best theatre ever.

Tim Hannah

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:15:17 +1200

It is completely and utterly absurd to imply the existence of a hidden agenda to belittle women, or to attack their intellect.

You've got to be pretty determinedly obtuse to think any agenda there was hidden.

Jackie Clark

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:14:26 +1200

And now we get down to it, don't we? I think, Dean, you might have a gripe about 1) this community and 2) Russell. There is only one way of fixing this: you realise that, don't you? You've walked into a party where you don't like the host, and you…

Danielle

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:12:14 +1200

I dunno. I've recently come around to Lindy West's position on that issue. But in this case the latest post is a bit too hilarious for me to take seriously. A guy whining about "aggressive feminists" who's really into evolutionary psychology? I mean, what kind of hoary old internet cliche…

Dean Papa

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 13:06:59 +1200

The “they” I am referring to is all of those who are claiming offense. I’d have thought that was obvious. Now some of these people may have been genuinely offended, but I suspect many are not as offended as they would have you believe. But it makes another good stick…

JacksonP

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:59:52 +1200

She has presence.

Wow, that was quick.

We really should be celebrating such amazing success. Well, I guess we are, left to our own devices.

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:43:14 +1200

This is great theatre, but maybe it's time to stop feeding the troll.

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:34:50 +1200

She has presence.

Her voice sounds like it's struggling through, particularly at the beginning of the song.

Young body and vocal chords to be put through what she must be doing at the moment.

Russell Brown

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:25:17 +1200

And on a more positive, and less silly, note ...

Lorde a few hours ago on Later With Jools Holland:

http://youtu.be/nVRXq5EqRTE

She has presence.

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:09:18 +1200

Alternatively I could have just pulled the statement out of my ass, but it shouldn’t matter how I arrived at my conclusion.

I don't mind how you arrived at the conclusion, but I'd hope you would.

Especially if you don't want 'aggressive feminists' making you look silly.

B Jones

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:09:03 +1200

The ugly truth here is that aggressive feminists can be incredibly mean when they want to be. Far meaner than innocent blokes like Simon could ever be. You need look no further than what that horrible woman Germain Greer said about poor Steve Irwin after he died for proof of…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:07:58 +1200

I should have the right to speak my mind without being battered down by aggressive feminists

I think that's because they're thinking with their feminist hearts, not their occasionally-in-use brains.

B Jones

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 12:00:52 +1200

Perhaps, after much research scrutinising the scientific literature with respect to psychology and evolution, and even from conducting my own scientific experiments, I have determined that there is some truth to the assertion, based on a statistical analysis of metadata, I may have, through the scientific process arrived at such…

Paul Williams

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:57:23 +1200

FWIW, briefly entering the fray, I like that there is a good number of opinionated feminists 'round these parts, not least of all 'cause they consistently say interesting and clever stuff... most of the blokes too... you, not so much

Emma Hart

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:56:53 +1200

Why do they claim to be so offended? I am not at all offended by the statement

It's sweet, Dean, that you think you get to decide what is and isn't offensive. I assume you have some kind of certificate authorising this? And also some kind of Science Machine that…

Martin Lindberg

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:52:05 +1200

It is bullying, plain and simple!!

Oh, cry me a river!

Russell Brown

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:45:16 +1200

I should have the right to speak my mind without being battered down by aggressive feminists. It is bullying, plain and simple!!

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but every word you've typed is still exactly as it was when you clocked the Post button. What you seem to be…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:42:08 +1200

Why do they claim to be so offended?

My apologies for what is below it is angry and may be offensive to some...

I can't answer for them. But I can answer for me.

I'm offended by the statement for a number of reasons. The first is that it is…

bob daktari

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:33:15 +1200

I think, musically, with my feet – everyone else is doing it wrong!

PLUR

JacksonP

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:32:42 +1200

Why do they claim to be so offended? I am not at all offended by the statement, which applies equally to the male gender, namely that they think less with their heart and more with their mind.

I’m offended by this statement! Who are ‘they’ for starters? What are you…

Dean Papa

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:23:36 +1200

And, according…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 11:15:43 +1200

To be clear, if Danielle could find the time to write a music post, I would be very proud to publish that post here.

We need a fanboy club! With T-shirts!

philipmatthews

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 10:00:43 +1200

Best response on this whole drama yet.

Russell Brown

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 09:58:23 +1200

It’s a shame we don’t know someone with an existing platform and an existing audience who already know Danielle and her writings who could host it.

I thought I'd said so:-)

To be clear, if Danielle could find the time to write a music post, I would be very proud…

Russell Brown

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 09:53:33 +1200

People like Nick Bollinger, Sam Wicks, Graham Reid and a handful of others do care about music and are happy to put the music first rather than their own interests.

I'd add Gary Steel to that. He and I have had our moments, but he's a reviewer I'll actually read,…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 07:25:03 +1200

Soviet-style stalinist repression.

Oh, FFS... that hyperbole would be faintly amusing if the treatment of artists, writers, composers and film-makers under Stalin who didn't toe the party line wasn't as well documented as it was horrifying. (Reading is awesome!) To quote Helen Clark, the first thing to do when you're…

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 00:26:52 +1200

He is defenceless in the face of a vicious and angry bullying mob

Hahahaha classic! Has someone stolen his keyboard? Or bludgeoned him with one?

...were you gang on nzmusic.com?

Heather Gaye

Wed, 18 Sept 2013 00:24:00 +1200

Cheers, good stuff!

Joe Wylie

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 23:55:18 +1200

Stalinism. Yeah right.

Stephen D. O'Hoy

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 23:34:56 +1200

I've seen a lot of people get upset by Simon Sweetman's reviews over the years. I've also seen bands pissed off by what Duncan Grieve has written (to the point that Opensouls even wrote a song about him) and others by GSG/BSB on The Corner. Fair enough too. If you're…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 23:07:47 +1200

See it works like this, if you say something stupid and offensive and IMO bullying in a moment of well ... stupidity ... And then you regret it ... Then what you do is apologise
Simply
Completely
Without excuse
If you don't apologise you can't claim to regret it ...…

JacksonP

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 21:44:02 +1200

iHeart your work. :-)

Rich Lock

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 21:09:59 +1200

I’d read your music blog Danielle, I’m sure it would piss me off far less often than Sweetman’s.

I’d read that!

It's a shame we don't know someone with an existing platform and an existing audience who already know Danielle and her writings who could host it.

nzlemming

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 19:54:18 +1200

Oh Dean. I think you might be confusing “censorship” with “losing the argument”.

^This

Danielle

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 19:39:52 +1200

Oh Dean. I think you might be confusing "censorship" with “losing the argument”.

I’d *love* to discuss why music nerdery is gendered. I’ve said as much. I’ve also said essentialist explanations for it are shallow and sexist (yes, even from the head of the BBC’s popular music division. Nice argument…

Jackie Clark

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 19:36:26 +1200

Women make choices with their hearts, and men with their heads? Do you REALLY believe this? You haven't met the PAS Womens' XV, have you? I find it disheartening that such bollocks is still generally regarded by some as a kind of truth. I also find it appalling that you…

Emma Hart

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 19:34:23 +1200

He was angry and frustrated, and in a moment of vulnerability wrote something that he now regrets.

Dean, can you back this assertion up with anything? Anything at all? Or are you arguing on this issue with your heart, and not your head?

Roger Lacey

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 19:28:45 +1200

He was angry and frustrated, and in a moment of vulnerability wrote something that he now regrets.
I guess a public apology will be forthcoming then?

Sacha

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 18:10:26 +1200

For his one mistake

Not paying attention, are you.

Sacha

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 18:10:01 +1200

in a moment of vulnerability

Please elaborate.

Dean Papa

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 17:52:25 +1200

This is no more than a witch hunt. Character assassination. Soviet-style stalinist repression. Call it what you will. Sure, Simon over stepped the bounds of good taste in his review. He was angry and frustrated, and in a moment of vulnerability wrote something that he now regrets. But who here…

Ken Double

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 11:06:02 +1200

I’s probably not popular to say around here, but what I find most frustrating about Simon in troll mode is he’s capable of better. A LOT better.

Whew. I concur.

Ken Double

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 10:52:58 +1200

I’d be very wary of fomenting any rivalry there

Totally the last thing on my mind Chris. You're spot on in that distinction. I still look to Si more for an entertaining thumbs up or down than a piercing deconstruction. His ears are pretty good.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 10:06:27 +1200

Russell, a journalist, is a discoverer; regularly championing unsigned talent, exposing it to wider audiences, a position in which having at least one digit on the pulse of the industry is essential. If that’s not also too reductive a depiction…

To risk sounding like a wretched arse-kisser, Russell does have…

Russell Brown

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 09:58:07 +1200

No, that's fair. I am also very interested in the…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 09:03:43 +1200

I’d read your music blog Danielle

I would too. I doubt we'd have much overlap in our music choices but I'd read it because you can write and your opinions are honest and that is always worth reading. And I'd probably discover some new music I do like.

"chris"

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 08:52:07 +1200

Russell is a very principled journalist but even he likes to warm his toes by the fires of the biz on occasion. He has mates. So be it, that’s how you get stories. Simon doesn’t do that. Look at him less as a critic

I’d be very wary of fomenting…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 08:42:43 +1200

I quite enjoyed it. It was knowing and edgy. As I recall facts were not involved, nor were they required.

Um... OK... Dudebro geeks being sexist dickbags are about as "edgy" as a woman with her top off on HBO. Yeah, there's certainly value in pointing out the Emperor not…

Heather Gaye

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 00:08:45 +1200

Y'know, there's an acquaintance of mine that makes racist comments to me that he (purportedly) doesn't believe because he likes to wind me up. That REALLY doesn't make everything ok.

I'd also like to point out that the general tone of the comments on this thread have been attacking on…

"chris"

Tue, 17 Sept 2013 00:02:16 +1200

Where you at Heather? I’ve been on skype for days, haven’t seen you.

Heather Gaye

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 23:41:08 +1200

..an opinion about music unswayed by baubles and trinkets..

I'd wholeheartedly recommend the opinions of "chris" any day of the week (although probably not for any writing job with a deadline).

Lilith __

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 22:57:31 +1200

If you’d like an opinion about music unswayed by baubles and trinkets, you could ask me: I’m a housewife with a giant music collection.

Danielle, will you please start writing a music blog? It would be an AWESOME thing to come out of this mess.

Rob Stowell

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 22:28:35 +1200

He cultivates no connections at all with the music industry. He’s just not interested.
Simon is a drummer. He has, at times, played quite a bit, I think. For a few different bands. Not a 'biz' insider, maybe... but rubbed shoulders with plenty of musicians? Reckon.

Geoff Lealand

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 22:17:40 +1200

I would read it too as I have long thought you have impeccable taste in music--but we might have another disagreement regarding Paul McCartney

Danielle

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 19:27:59 +1200

(I actually read the Blog on the Tracks Facebook page quite a lot, FWIW. It's not somewhere I feel comfortable commenting, though. For obvious reasons.)

Ken Double

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 19:24:26 +1200

Yes. (I'm starting to sound like I think he's Jesus or Greil Marcus or something. He certainly ain't.) You have to take him as whole. He fucks up occasionally – I agree on the Lorde piece top to bottom – but he's written other stuff too. Lots and lots of…

Danielle

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 19:19:46 +1200

most of the people chipping in here would happily string him up

Oh FFS. If we could spare him the full martyr treatment, that would be ace. I am not interested in "stringing him up"; I'm noting that in the pieces quoted here he's not edgy, or satirical, or speaking…

Dean Papa

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 19:12:33 +1200

Hello Jackie. I've got your "missing stair reference", but it would seem to be very unfair to apply that to Sweetman, based only on a couple of reviews or articles he has written. I do not know him, so have no idea what he is really like. But he is…

"chris"

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 19:09:08 +1200

half decent

sorry, I edited before you’d replied. That Stuff link has the link to the actual review. And yes…

Sacha

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 19:01:55 +1200

robust debate

Really?

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 19:01:24 +1200

He wrote a decent review of Ladi6 last week, but to coin his pet phrase; ‘diminishing returns’ characterizes his output of late, right about the time he starting posting poetry and short stories on offthetracks.

It's hardly a review. He doesn't mention a single track or actually say anything specific…

Ken Double

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:58:53 +1200

Glad to have brought a smile Russell. I know many musicians, not quite so many in the business. I've written on music myself in the past (in a national magazine! prior to the internet!) and frankly I found it nerve wracking to review the local stuff with total honesty. I'm…

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:34:32 +1200

It was knowing and edgy.

joining Russell rofl-ing

Yeah, seriously, it really wasn't. It was clumsy and oafish.

"chris"

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:30:24 +1200

He wrote a half decent review of Ladi6 last week, but to coin his pet phrase; ‘diminishing returns’ characterizes his output of late, right about the time he starting posting poetry and short stories on offthetracks.

some dumb feud

Certainly not how I’ve read the situation, gotta keep people honest.…

Danielle

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:29:44 +1200

You'll forgive me if I consider the same old potshots at my gender less a case of "edgy" and more a case of "same shit, different day".

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:23:56 +1200

There is that, but ideally I prefer a reviewer to simply look and listen, then expound on the music and cover art. Something that Simon has utterly failed to do on this and countless other occasions.

That's actually a very fair point. There's definitely virtue in just reviewing the music…

Sacha

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:23:47 +1200

It was knowing and edgy.

joining Russell rofl-ing

Sacha

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:23:08 +1200

satirical

Whatever, dude

Sacha

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:22:38 +1200

It's really not hard to speak to New Zealand artists.

Harder to avoid it

Ken Double

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:21:44 +1200

In what ‘context’ would it be anything but loathesome fact-free rubbish?

It was an article about the ways in which women and men differ in their musical taste. He wanted a response so he wrote a piece with a satirical male-advocacy point of view. I quite enjoyed it. It was…

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:13:57 +1200

I’d read your music blog Danielle, I’m sure it would piss me off far less often than Sweetman’s.

I'd read that!

"chris"

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:13:14 +1200

often have knowledge and insight

There is that, but ideally I prefer a reviewer to simply look and listen, then expound on the music and cover art – something that Simon has utterly failed to do on this and countless other occasions. He gets a little too caught up in…

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:10:18 +1200

He cultivates no connections at all with the music industry. He’s just not interested. It may lead him to go proudly, arrogantly off the deep end every now and then, but some of us actually value any opinion unswayed by industry baubles, junkets and – that most insidious of all…

"chris"

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 18:07:04 +1200

If you’d like an opinion about music unswayed by baubles and trinkets, you could ask me: I’m a housewife with a giant music collection

I’d read your music blog Danielle, I’m sure it would piss me off far less often than Sweetman’s.

ETA I'm generally pissed off by music reviews.…

Lilith __

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:48:49 +1200

People who go to lots of gigs and mix with people in the music industry often have knowledge and insight that someone who merely buys CDs doesn't. Excitement and engagement can make for superb writing.

Danielle

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:38:45 +1200

If you'd like an opinion about music unswayed by baubles and trinkets, you could ask me: I'm a housewife with a giant music collection. As a bonus, I will do my very best not to be a sexist asshat just for the sake of feeling smug about how "provocative" I…

Sacha

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:37:37 +1200

however outrageous it may look out of context

In what 'context' would it be anything but loathesome fact-free rubbish?

Sacha

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:36:52 +1200

He has mates. So be it, that's how you get stories. Simon doesn't do that.

Have mates? Colour me unsurprised.

Sacha

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:36:10 +1200

I too was under the impression this music was made in a bedroom, because that is what I was told on one news.

Please do link to that, because I have heard no such thing from that source or any other.

"chris"

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:19:58 +1200

it was an ill informed hatchet job…but some of us actually value any opinion unswayed by industry baubles, junkets and – that most insidious of all inducements – access

With you on that Ken.

Danielle

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:03:49 +1200

Well, true. But the music nerds are the ones I know the most intimately (ooh vicar) so I can talk about the cultural specifics in greater detail. I don't know anything much about other kinds of nerds. Except film nerds, maybe? And I think the gender imbalance there is less…

Ken Double

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 17:02:22 +1200

Yes, as a regular reader and knowing Simon's tendency to veer in and out of deadpan I never thought the women-and-music article was anything but a wind-up, however outrageous it may look out of context. In fact the extent of its outrageousness is probably evidence of that. Were it otherwise…

James Butler

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 16:47:31 +1200

I tell you what though, music nerdery IS often a sausagefest.

The word “music” in that sentence is a tad redundant, no?

ETA: to clarify I'm talking about the kind of self-important exclusionary nerdery that has been discussed in this thread. Not in the "fake geek girl meme" sense.

Megan Wegan

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 15:30:41 +1200

In my defence it was 1993, and I skipped out on my School Cert French exam to be near the front of the crowd.

Peter Darlington

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 15:19:39 +1200

And, go on, try to assign ANY of that to my gender. I dare you.

You had me until U2. :-)

Megan Wegan

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 14:41:38 +1200

(and believe me, I have been patronised by fellow music nerds MANY MANY TIMES).

I don’t consider myself a particularly musical person. I don’t seem to “hear” music the way my friends do. I don’t hear melodies and production, and what’s going on behind voice. I hear voices and lyrics.…

Danielle

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 14:30:26 +1200

And, go on, try to assign ANY of that to my gender. I dare you.

Sweetman would probably love and hate my music collection in about equal measure – the sheer scale of it kind of guarantees me a reasonable batting average – but ascribing my love of whichever artist…

Megan Wegan

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 14:19:57 +1200

If you read the entire article, where he mentions both his mum and dear wife, then I think it is obviously intended to be read in a lighthearted manner.

OH! It was just a JOKE! Well, that’s OK then. Because no one has ever made a joke that was stupid…

Danielle

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 14:04:01 +1200

I also don’t view Simon’s piece on musical taste of men V women quite as terrible as some are trying to make out. If you read the entire article, where he mentions both his mum and dear wife, then I think it is obviously intended to be read in a…

Che Tibby

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 13:30:28 +1200

There are literally hundreds of these covers on YouTube. Amazing

yep. this is obviously what sweetman missed.

James George

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 13:09:51 +1200

I don't particularly care about facebook that is a medium designed for superficial tossers.
How about giving her the simple dignity of defining Sarah on her own terms. One of the things she loathed was the way so many people she had no idea existed, claimed to know her & always…

Jackie Clark

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 13:07:50 +1200

I don’t think anyone’s been harsh at all, Dean. I rather think the opposite, in fact. The thing is, you see, that NZ is a very tiny country. And so it stands to reason that a good number of people who read that review would know Ella, and/or her family…

Dean Papa

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 12:21:08 +1200

I can't help thinking we are being a tad harsh on poor old Simon Sweetman. That review of Lorde was indeed distasteful, and I have a feeling that Simon on reflection might nearly agree with that assessment, but the way he has been relentlessly pilloried over it makes it less…

Peter Darlington

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 10:55:15 +1200

It's been pointed out to me that I was wrong to say that Adam Holt saved the local Universal branch by signing Hayley Westenra. George Ash actually signed her and her debut album was number one in NZ when Adam took the top job.

Ha, good old George. One of…

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 10:13:53 +1200

But what Adam did do was…

Peter Darlington

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 08:57:48 +1200

I was starting to feel sorry for him having half the internet down on him. Then someone else directed me to this effort in 2011:

Woah, that is bad!

Russell Brown

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 07:56:03 +1200

Whole column is as tacky it gets. You’d think after 40 years memories of Sarah could be left to those who knew her instead of this lame tabloid trash getting dragged up again.

You know, I’ve been watching the busy Facebook discussions among people who, like David, knew her. And…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 16 Sept 2013 03:12:28 +1200

Written by that guy Giorgio Moroder, who apparently knew a thing or two about musical talent.

I had a bit of a Moroder phase some years back, spanning much of his 1977-87 output. In particular, 1977's From Here to Eternity put Kraftwerk to shame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnIwl3FNUl8

James George

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 22:50:09 +1200

Whole column is as tacky it gets. You'd think after 40 years memories of Sarah could be left to those who knew her instead of this lame tabloid trash getting dragged up again. The dead can't sue for libel eh. Herkt's career peak was editing a taxpayer paid for magazine…

"chris"

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 21:08:53 +1200

Ha, I really wasn’t expecting that Jackson. smooth video. I’ve found most of her catalogue on xiami.com, I’m going to enjoy listening how she found her way from there to here.

OT, neither Royals nor Tennis court grabbed me, perhaps I was distracted by the videos or…but I finally listened…

JacksonP

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 17:28:19 +1200

Anyway…phenomenal songwriting there, I’d never heard (of) Janis Ian.
Speechless.

Janis Ian was huge in our house when I was growing up. This possibly my favourite. Written by that guy Giorgio Moroder, who apparently knew a thing or two about musical talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2uSrBwuolQ

andin

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 17:08:04 +1200

Jesus, what a fuckwit
Utterly, completely, totally

Russell Brown

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 17:04:21 +1200

Billboard predicts that plays of the controversial video — which count directly towards the chart — will get Miley Cyrus to No.1 this week, ahead of Lorde.

Russell Brown

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 16:59:52 +1200

Did I hear Royals playing after the ABs scored a try last night?

You did. It's been played the last few times I've been to Eden Park, but the post-try slot is perhaps a bit special.

BenWilson

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 16:41:37 +1200

Did I hear Royals playing after the ABs scored a try last night?

"chris"

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 15:06:21 +1200

Anyway…phenomenal songwriting there, I’d never heard (of) Janis Ian.
Speechless.

"chris"

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 14:14:41 +1200

————>
my head

I hoped to express my appreciation quietly.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 13:51:33 +1200

Primate of the Month...
oh no! get a grip...
I need fully opposing thumbs
for language & stuff to evolve!

;- )

Jackie Clark

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 13:43:17 +1200

Oh for the love of someone quite deified. Just not even worth any attention at all.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 13:40:23 +1200

Oh, all right, then….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lx1JjUloU

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 13:37:58 +1200

Flex your JPSE...
...ad nauseum
...but he did spell ad nauseam correctly!
That's still gotta be worth points?
right?

;- )
The Pedant Patrol Rides Again

Danielle

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 13:27:42 +1200

Ah. I hadn't seen that one before – I don't read him that often. So he's one of *those* dudes too. He's really ticking all my boxes for "things I hate in music-nerd culture".

Incidentally, you know who else was "hummable" and "singalong"? (Hint: not Hitler.)

Russell Brown

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 13:22:23 +1200

When I was out last night, two people came up to me and offered unsolicited thanks for responding to Sweetman. I was starting to feel sorry for him having half the internet down on him. Then someone else directed me to this effort in 2011:

Ah, sod it – who…

"chris"

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 13:04:26 +1200

in reply to Ian Dalziel

Danielle

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 10:01:58 +1200

"Wake up, sheeple!"

Sacha

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 10:00:47 +1200

Let them eat cake, eh

BlairMacca

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 07:45:33 +1200

all those global music industry experts and buyers of tunes must be wrong, eh

And McDonald's is a high quality meal

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 07:03:49 +1200

Be the change…
That she’s had the drive and desire to get this far to me indicates that she’s unlikely to be satisfied by a quiet life just making music for her friends.
And that even if this is just a flash in the USA she has quite a future.…

Russell Brown

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 01:59:36 +1200

One more. A funny little Vine featuring a couple of chunky Tongan boys.

Russell Brown

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 01:40:54 +1200

To me, it seems more likely that Lorde would have that sort of career rather than churning out album after album like Rihanna (seven platinum albums in eight years!).

That's a really good point.

Russell Brown

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 01:39:14 +1200

EW's newly-posted Five Quick Facts about Lorde is pretty standard stuff. But in the comments, someone in the business says something interesting:

She's huge right now. I auditioned a bunch of teenage girls for a group this week, and so many of them chose to sing Royals. She's definitely speaking…

Robyn Gallagher

Sun, 15 Sept 2013 00:44:24 +1200

Maybe, but there's far less that have survived being thrown in the deep end at 16 and gone on to prosper than those thrown in the deep end at, say, 21, 22, 23, or who's success has been gradual rather than quick.

Adele is a good example of someone who's…

Chris Waugh

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 23:29:25 +1200

We need to find the cultural maturity to grasp the difference between being a dick and challenging dickishness.

Amen.

Steve Parks

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 21:46:59 +1200

I actually agree with what Sweetman is trying to say, but again he lets himself down with cheap shots.

Seems to me that sans cheap shots, he's not saying much.

Danielle

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 19:58:37 +1200

He writes for a living. I think what he was "trying to say" was exactly what he DID say: her parents suck, she's an airhead, her music is a valueless conspiracy by the music industry – oh, and she's kinda sorta slutty. How is it a "fight to the bottom"…

Sacha

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 19:45:23 +1200

He wrote his opinion

and speech brings consequences

Sacha

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 19:43:46 +1200

she is OKAY, but nothing special

all those global music industry experts and buyers of tunes must be wrong, eh

Sacha

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 19:42:26 +1200

that doesn't mean we should engage in a fight to the bottom

We need to find the cultural maturity to grasp the difference between being a dick and challenging dickishness.

Geoff Lealand

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 18:51:32 +1200

Yes, it was bloody interesting--especially in documenting how the dirty was done to singers like Darlene, with Phil Spector lurking like a ghoul in the background.

BlairMacca

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 18:45:30 +1200

Does anyone remember last year when Sweetman slagged off Autozamm and so they wrote a diss track called ”The Review”, including a video featuring a sweaty lookalike music reviewer? No one won.

I actually think Sweetman won that one. It made him look smart and above the line in comparison

BlairMacca

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 18:32:25 +1200

I actually agree with what Sweetman is trying to say, but again he lets himself down with cheap shots. However that doesn't mean we should engage in a fight to the bottom.

I have heard a few Lorde songs, and she is OKAY, but nothing special, I really fail to…

Simon Grigg

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 18:21:01 +1200

I imagine your answers would vary, based on things like how much people value their privacy etc…

Yep, but if you are an aspiring musician trying to get your music heard and then somebody says 'lookee, here's the whole world and they want to know', it's not a tough decision…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 17:19:19 +1200

While her music isn’t my cup of tea, I think that at 16 she’s been thrown in the deep end far too early. Popular music history is awash with people that were successful in their mid-teens and chewed up, spat out by the music biz only a year or two…

"chris"

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 17:10:37 +1200

Yeah, trippy intro on that track.

Lilith __

Sat, 14 Sept 2013 17:07:38 +1200

Since none of us can see the future, I'd rather stick with what's happening now. Lorde's having a big success, and hurrah for that. Team makes me feel like dancing. Excuse me...