Hard News: Food Show 08
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as for oil, for cooking, use anything
Sort of. Virgin oil lacks much of the nutritional goodness of extra virgin, and olive pomace oil is muck that actually no one should eat.
Honestly?, try avocado oil. Higher smoke point, more nutty/buttery taste, and supposedly easier on the heart
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SB has played its part by at least making it accessible (unlike the duanting "face control" of Auckland and Wellington cafe culture).
The what? What are there, bouncers on the doors of the cafés to keep the riffraff out?
Coffee was accessible long before SB arrived - Robert Harris and other chains were making terrible cappucinos all through suburban shopping malls in the mid 90s. That's as accessible as it gets.
I'm not convinced by the not-cool in NZ vs cool in the US, though. An expat American friend of mine was perplexed by "hipster" kids hanging out in the Palmerston North Starbucks. There are much cooler cafés in Palmie.
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Think about people. You get decent coffee in Whangarei for chrissakes. Don't go telling me that Whangarei's rich food culture is whooly based on homegrown creativity and shininess.
Except it was. Starbucks was a late entrant to a market already saturated with good coffee, and which was already spreading to every corner of New Zealand. There was a shop selling Espresso (and pies) in Shannon, for Cthulhu's sake! That ought to tell you how not-new they were.
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Give me a decent cup of tea any day!
Hear, hear. Although I feel obliged to point out that the massive popularity of tea over coffee until recently in Anglo-Saxon countries is because a virus wiped out the coffee plantations of Sri Lanka in the 1870s and the Brits were so caffeine-deprived they planted tea to make up for it. Coffee was much more popular before then.
To point out the obvious, British food is just as imported and nowdays just as foreign.
And better for it. The best Indian food I have ever had in my entire life was in this tiny Bangladeshi restaurant in a village twenty miles or so outside Oxford. In fact, all the best meals I had in England were curries of one sort or another; the "traditional" food was crap. And their addiction to pre-packaged meals honestly doesn't bear thinking about.
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I suggest that its democratization of coffee opened access to gourmet coffee for the rabble, not the shitty coffee itself.
Aaaah...'twas Starbucks that gave us the long black and the flat white eh...
For those lovers of pork, who are south of the border...
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As for its shittiness, is it really that bad? Am I led to believe that SB's global dominance has been based on selling crud? Whatever the inner sanctum says, it's a far cry from the Greggs we were used to be served up at the Dome Valley Roadhouse.
As for McDs, it was also hugely influential in lifting the game of the takeaway industry. You can protest all you like, but it didn't take much for the Arches to corner the takeaway market with food that tasted better, was healthier, and presented a more welcomong environment.
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Everyone know that to eat well in Britain requires you to eat breakfast three times a day. Oh and a steamed pudding to. When I was last over there I succumbed to this tradition, its great. Down the cafe around 9am, bigh brekkie with a quality tabloid, then off the days adventures. Beautiful.
Hours of wasted time to be had at this celebration of British cuisine:
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As for its shittiness, is it really that bad?
The only one I had, in Lambton Quay a few months ago, was pretty awful, yes.
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In fact, all the best meals I had in England were curries of one sort or another; the "traditional" food was crap.
Indeed Lucy. I seem to remember reading an article a while back which mentioned that while the traditional fish and chips was still very popular,Chicken Tika Masala was even more so!
The Empire strikes back...
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Am I led to believe that SB's global dominance has been based on selling crud?
never underestimate the selling power of three tablespoons of sugar in 300ml of milk, lightly flavoured with coffee.
jim, you're a well-done steak kinda guy, aren't ya?
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Don't go telling me that Whangarei's rich food culture is whooly based on homegrown creativity and shininess.
Can't speak for Whangarei, but in Hamilton I witnessed the growth and spread of espresso culture from the late 80s and yes, it was all local. There were even local roasters (Rocket) by about 1994. I think that IS in fact a slur on NZ's provincial hospo trade.
No, SB's isn't that bad, but in a NZ context, it isn't good enough.
You have to remember that they achieved dominance over North America in a new market -- most Americans drank weak filter coffee before Starbucks -- they were pioneering a new drink there. They got here too late. Every coffeeshop in Hamiltron had an espresso machine before Starbucks ever turned up.
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Coffee in Canada is truly, truly terrible. I'm told Vancouver is a bit better, but still too many Starbucks.
Indeed, on a recent extended foray to Canada I actually quit drinking coffee ... for the first time in probably 13 years I was going consecutive days without a drop.
Soon settled back into my old ways of 2 cups a day upon return to NZ.
You might strike it lucky at an independent coffee house in Vancouver, but Starbucks is ubiquitous. Like on "Two Starbucks Corner" - at the intersection of Robson and Thurlow downtown.
Apparently there are 238 Starbucks in Greater Vancouver.
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The New Zealand Coffee Festival Hall of fame paints an interesting picture.
The top awards quite often go to small roasters like Max Coffee in Kerikeri, but also to the likes of Orb, which is owned by Cerebos-Greggs, who also own Robert Harris. Likewise, Burton Hollis needed a better premium brand, so it created Gravity, which emulates the vertical model of the independent cafe-roasters.
It's been interesting to see the way the big brands have plated catch-up. In recent years Cerebos-Greggs has acquired both L'affare and (iirc) Atomic. They're not interested in the cafes themselves (in both cases, the original owners have been allowed to keep trading), but they had to do something about the way the locally roasted brands were hurting them in the supermarkets.
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Hot tip: Wicked on 7th and Hemlock in Vancouver. Only decent espress I got there in a week.
Interestingly one barista was Australian, and the other was all excited because he was going to Wellington and heard there was good coffee there.
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As for its shittiness, is it really that bad? Am I led to believe that SB's global dominance has been based on selling crud?
It all depends on your point of reference. Starbucks or Seattle's Best (now owned by Starbucks) don't seem quite so bad when you compare it to the general quality of 'coffee' in the US.
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As for its shittiness, is it really that bad? Am I led to believe that SB's global dominance has been based on selling crud?
Nope; its coffee is apparently very good by American standards. But it just doesn't stack up in a country which knows how to make coffee properly.
(I wonder how it does in Europe...)
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No Che, I live in a place where steak is a luxury. If I move back to NZ, perhaps I should enrol in finishing school to get me up to scratch.
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Although I feel obliged to point out that the massive popularity of tea over coffee until recently in Anglo-Saxon countries is because a virus wiped out the coffee plantations of Sri Lanka in the 1870s and the Brits were so caffeine-deprived they planted tea to make up for it. Coffee was much more popular before then.
Yep, Isaac Newton, Christopher Wren, John Locke et al were all a bunch of crazed coffee loving phules. We possibly wouldn't have the Principia Mathematica, computers and teh Interwebs without the mighty bean.
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(I wonder how it does in Europe...)
From what I've just seen it does ok by feeding the tourists, despite the coffee, especially in France and Italy, being very good.
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If I move back to NZ, perhaps I should enrol in finishing school to get me up to scratch.
Why? You'd have to actually seek out bad espresso at this point - so your taste will naturally acclimatise. And disliking espresso is no crime.
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Sort of. Virgin oil lacks much of the nutritional goodness of extra virgin, and olive pomace oil is muck that actually no one should eat.
I had a win last week - after years of Mrs Llew insisting on buying Extra Light olive oil, and refusing to take my word that she should be buying extra virgin, the DomPost informed her that the "light" has nothing to do with fat content, and all to do with colour & taste. Yay!
Of coursde, I've been using some of the boatload of avacado oil that someone gave me for Christmas anyway.
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Oh, the gross misuse of "light" as a marketing tactic. Light olive oil gets used to fry things, chez moi, with the EVO stuff reserved for drizzling over things. Both need regular de-congealing by the fireplace this time of year.
Does SB still serve in takeaway cups? I don't know why anyone would pay more for the quality you get there, when you don't even get chinaware. At least the suburban mall coffee-manglers have cups and saucers.
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As for its shittiness, is it really that bad? Am I led to believe that SB's global dominance has been based on selling crud?
Nope; its coffee is apparently very good by American standards. But it just doesn't stack up in a country which knows how to make coffee properly.
(I wonder how it does in Europe...)
Oh yes. I just don't think people grasp quite how bad American food is once you get even a small distance from a major immigrant-based centre.
It's like dreadful British pub food gone wild. And American coffee really is dreadful. You know it's bad when you turn a corner, see a StarFucked and think "thank god, an oasis of flavour". Hits you when you've been away a while.
I found Italy pretty good, France very variable. Germany surpisingly good (I think because they have grasped the consistancy thing).
The British vaguely like StarFux I think, because the alternatives there are still like NZ was up until about 10 years ago.
[And I know there are isolated pockets of brilliance - just not many...]
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As for its shittiness, is it really that bad? Am I led to believe that SB's global dominance has been based on selling crud?
Many of Starbucks' products seem tailored for people who like their coffee to taste as little like coffee as possible. It's like alcopops, whose popularity is based upon getting you really smashed, but with a sweet rather than alcoholic taste. They have a place in the market, and shouldn't be denied to those who really like them; but I bridle at being called a snob for preferring to taste the vodka in my vodka, and I don't expect to pay 42 Below prices for Smirnoff Red quality.
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And better for it. The best Indian food I have ever had in my entire life was in this tiny Bangladeshi restaurant in a village twenty miles or so outside Oxford.
I've probably got the old rosies on the nosey, but I'd have to say tha Brick lane in the 80's before it was rebranded Banglatown and invaded by anoying Hoxtonistas was curry heaven. And also a great place for a post piss up salt beef bagel of epic proportions from one of the old jewish bakeries.
To point out the obvious, British food is just as imported and nowdays just as foreign. Despite the pretensions of monarchists and the Wizard of Christchurch/Oamaru, we ain't "British"
British food culture has always been more diverse that the sterotyipical boiled cabbage of the Mrs Beaton variety. I reckon Britain became more 'Un British' long before NZers returning from their OE cottoned to the trend but if you want to live with blinkered stereotypes then……..
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