Hard News: Fix up, young men
379 Responses
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selinamc, in reply to
I honestly don't know the answer to that. I can quite clearly remember some horrific sexual violence cases in the 70s and 80s, it's not a new thing.
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On another note, I was talking last night to a guy whose band played Rhythm & Vines this summer.
They'd planned to stay the whole three days, but shipped out as soon as they could, turned off by the spectacle. He said he was just glad they hadn't been placed in the youth camping area for the night they did have to stay – he was 23!
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This really has touched a nerve with me, a nerve that's been getting rawer for a while now. Someone tell me, what can we do? Even if its just a start
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Emma Hart, in reply to
Someone tell me, what can we do? Even if its just a start
I had some suggestions a couple of years ago.
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LaraH, in reply to
Exactly Deborah.
Please men. Step up.
Believe us when we tell you about the low level sexual harassment we endure regularly here in New Zealand. And please, when you see it happening call the perps out on their behaviour.
Because the guys who do this don't listen to us. But they will listen to other men. Especially older more experienced men.
I don't attend concerts anymore. They simply are not safe spaces for me to be in, even with my husband. I don't feel safe.
And that's not good enough New Zealand.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I don’t attend concerts anymore. They simply are not safe spaces for me to be in, even with my husband. I don’t feel safe.
And that’s not good enough New Zealand.
Damn right it's not.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Call it when you see it. Consequences, keep on calling it. Be proactive is a start. Be prepared to argue on behalf of the ones who can't shout out.
Although this is horrific, this woman rang the Police and got a response. Yay. She called it and in Court, this response to abuse suggests a sense of entitlement.Me, me me, I want ?? Is this the headspace?
Millar's explanation to police was: "I was angry because I was turned down by [the victim]," Hickey said
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BenWilson, in reply to
Especially older more experienced men
I think the main key is people who are respected. I remember talking a guy more than twice my age out of attempting to get into a romantic situation with his mate's 15 year old daughter. I was the President of a club we were both in, and the oldest other person there, so I guess he homed in on me. I did have a lot of soul searching to do that night about what kind of role model I must be that he thought I might be sympathetic to his plight.
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Accepting everything the women are saying here, then this is a question
Why isn't the next generation better then us misogynist old white men?
What the hell did we do wrong that the next generation isn't better than us???
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You raised them.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
What the hell did we do wrong that the next generation isn’t better than us???
I actually think kids today in general are pretty awesome. The teens and twentysomethings I know are, and I’m grateful that my sons went through school when they did, and not to the schools that I did.
A better question might be why does this culture still exist?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
You raised them.
That's a bit glib. I'm not sure "I blame the parents" is a very good explanation.
My older son is a gentle, serious and often vulnerable aspie. I'm really proud of him and his decency and courage.
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From personal experience this culture still exists because 'what makes a man' is still the same, sad, stuff. For the most part that is
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why does this culture still exist?
Because we allow it to continue to exist, and some/a lot are resistant to change.
I remember 60's/70's NZ, it was a culture awash in all kinds of sexism and many of other isms not conducive to a healthy respectful society. Me and a small group of friends at the time just put up with it but it was overwhelmingly the norm, and hoped it would change in time.While it doesnt seem to have, tho I personally think something has changed. It is easier to raise objections to such behaviour and not be demonised but the behaviour is still there, and its easy to backslide, just ask Steven Joyce. Yeah that was a joke haha! or is he the joke?
When we have a culture where our means of communicating, (the spoken word is used by corporations and their paid minions ad agencies/ radio stations, sports persons), is encumbered with unspoken baggage to sell product it keeps us locked into modes of thinking that we really should move past. We wont get anywhere apart from a cyclical repeating of patterns of behaviour.
Whats that burning smell ? Oh just the planet burning dont worry ;-] -
BenWilson, in reply to
I actually think kids today in general are pretty awesome.
Me too. But I can't prove it. I can only quite subjectively compare people of roughly the same groups that I used to have good knowledge of, and even then, I'm not socializing with them, going to late night parties and gigs and concerts to compare. Also, the way they act around me has to be compared to how the kids I remember in the past acted towards middle aged men. And none of that is telling me how they're treating women.
I’m grateful that my sons went through school when they did, and not to the schools that I did.
Which doesn't really tell us if the schools you went through are any better now.
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Bart Janssen, in reply to
You raised them.
glib and wrong, for multiple reasons.
What strikes mne is that in so many ways the next generation is freaking awesome.
Their attitude to gender diversity is amazing.
Their care for the environment makes most of us old folks feel inadequate
But on this? What about this makes it so different that they behave this way?
And yes I know many of that generation are as fucked off as I am about this.
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Sacha, in reply to
You raised them.
as did all of us. #village
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Sacha, in reply to
this culture still exists because 'what makes a man' is still the same
Yes. We have not invested the energy into transforming men's understanding of ourselves as women have theirs.
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Seems an appropriate thread for this. Not usually a Gaga fan, but this is well done.
[TRIGGER WARNING][edit] Shit. Janis Ian shared it on FB and I read the comments:
Chaz Austin
College boys have to learn that acting out is NOT OKAY.
Like · Reply · 6 · 2 hrsGeri Lynn Weinstein Matthews
Rape/sexual assault is predatory criminal & heinous NOT acting out!
Like · Reply · 3 · 1 hrChaz Austin
Agreed. But these mandolescents need to be trained to not allow themselves to express those instincts – EVER!Rape is an instinct now? Pathetic fucker is part of the problem. And he was supporting the video and sentiment. SMFH
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raena, in reply to
That's a bit glib. I'm not sure "I blame the parents" is a very good explanation.
Where do young men learn to act like this towards women?
Where do young men learn that women's voices aren't relevant or worthwhile?
Young men learn to behave this way. They aren't born inherently shitty. They grow up in an environment where being able to commit violence against women and get away with it is at best tolerated and excused, and at worst encouraged.
They learn this from men who are their role models, whether it's at home, at school, on the football pitch, in the media. They see the men they look up to behave this way and get away with it, and they see other men scramble to justify it or explain it away or minimise it.
They see men point to incidents like this and say "no real man would do this" or "this isn't part of my culture" or "well back in my day I never saw it ergo it never happened" and what they learn from this is that it certainly isn't their problem. They see the voices of women who speak up being dismissed as irrelevant and they see men patting each other on the back for it.
They see this behaviour modeled all around them every day and that's how they learn that it is okay. Some of this is parenting. Quite a lot of it isn't. None of it came from nowhere.
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raena, in reply to
as did all of us. #village
Yes, and some of us are trying to change things for the better, and some of us are sitting back on our heels and making out like it's all some mysterious external force at work.
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Sorry, folks. I should have put "Trigger Warning" on that vid. I do sincerely apologise. Russell, can you edit?
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nzlemming, in reply to
Yes, and some of us are trying to change things for the better, and some of us are sitting back on our heels and making out like it's all some mysterious external force at work.
I agree, which is what irked me about the "something has changed" approach.The only thing that has "changed" is the boldness and frequency. The underlying attitudes that cause rape and sexual assault haven't changed an iota. That's the real tragedy. Saying "it's breaking our music festivals and we should be allowed to grieve" is some mighty privileged nonsense, to me at least. Not the real issue at all.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
some of us are sitting back on our heels and making out like it's all some mysterious external force at work.
And some, having discerned a cancer in the public breast, have happily set about nurturing it.
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Education about consent should be a part of the NZ school curriculum. That's an obvious, concrete goal we could all have.
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