Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Finally, the Teapot Tape?

Russell Brown

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:20:16 +1300

See here:

http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/the-real-problem-with-the-teapottapes-decision/

I don't like this. At all.

Raymond A Francis

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:17:01 +1300

While he only received a warning, Ambrose’s actions were illegal, Burgess said.

Future occurrences were likely to be prosecuted.

“We were satisfied on this occasion that there was [prima facie evidence].

But police decided there was not sufficient public interest in the matter going to court, he said.

“I reached…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:42:17 +1300

Police have dropped all charges in the Teapot Tapes case. So the whole thing looks like it was pursued out of spite.

Stupid

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:38:49 +1300

This is more interesting to listen to a 320k mp3 of the Adrian Sherwood Live to AIr on BBC6 last week with breaks removed and gained up to “Zero” c/o Dub Module (277.7MB)

Steve Barnes

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:31:11 +1300

next, an investigation into the rebirth of celebrity house prices..
No sooner said than done

nzlemming

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:05:09 +1300

DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS!

Steve Barnes

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:12:22 +1300

the death of celebrity house prices..

LOL

Sacha

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:20:11 +1300

next, an investigation into the death of celebrity house prices..

stever@cs.waikato.ac.nz

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:15:00 +1300

I'm not sure the media here have really been tested by events much or often, so it's more like we're "benefitting" in these ratings from a form of "if you don't say anything, people can't tell you've got nothing interesting to say or that you're an idiot, and tend to…

Martin Lindberg

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:51:49 +1300

NZ drops 5 places in RSF media freedom index.

Still, that's from 8 to 13. Not exactly on the level of Australia (30), the UK (28), the US (47) or SA (42).

DexterX

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:33:26 +1300

Key was able to spot the d-vice on account of his dealings with the FBI regrading the Mr Dot Com investigation – this gave Key the relative experience in matters of surveillance.

Russell Brown

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:10:24 +1300

NZ drops 5 places in RSF media freedom index. Should anyone be surprised?

No, no one should be surprised. Although I'm sure David Farrar will have some rationalisation that says it's okay.

I'm presuming the ranking period covers the teapot investigation, but not the current NZ On Air debacle.

merc

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:34:16 +1300

I'm waiting for the ratings rater's ratings story ;-)

Greg Dawson

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:59:37 +1300

All good, I didn't mean to come across as the thought police or anything.

The freedom index rating we had was always a bit iffy, like the corruption rating that we keep getting. I think it's strongly correlated with how much attention we get – ie, if there's no news,…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:55:33 +1300

NZ drops 5 places in RSF media freedom index. Should anyone be surprised? Hell, even the Electoral Finance Act didn't cause a ranking this low.

linger

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:35:27 +1300

Wasn't an implication I was trying to make; but yes.
Comment reformulated to remove any last hint of that.

merc

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:27:39 +1300

reckless inattention to personal danger Does not score well on any personality or intelligence test.
Greg, no implication for nasty things to happen from me, indeed I am not worried by the two Johnnies only in so far as to how woefully unconscious they are and how fixated on things…

Greg Dawson

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:26:20 +1300

can we avoid implying we'd like nasty things to happen to anyone please – even if they are people we thoroughly disagree with.

eta: perhaps especially when they are people we thoroughly disagree with.

linger

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:20:11 +1300

in Key’s case, such reckless inattention to personal danger is at least preferable to his reckless inattention to democracy, governmental responsibility and everything else about his job that doesn’t get polled or photo-opped.

merc

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:39:40 +1300

I was thinking it very silly for the whole security thing for the PM to suddenly reach into an unknown bag. My goodness living in London no one went near unattended bags, they even had bomb proof rubbish bins to chuck them into.
Meantime the PM is not only jawing…

linger

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:04:20 +1300

is that a recording device in your manbag or...?
meanwhile, MSM gaze rests firmly on pressing concerns of whose cock-up whom...

merc

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:56:18 +1300

What's in the bag Prime Minister?

Ross Mason

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:48:59 +1300

At about 7:50 it sounds like the recorder is being put in a bug

heh.

I wonder. Did both of them see the "recording device" and think the other one was recording the conversation? It occured to me that there was a lot of deferring "Prime Minister" and the non…

Ian MacKay

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 09:46:56 +1300

It seems very clear to me that what Key fears (feared) most was being ridiculed foe such an inane un-Primeministerial conversation better suited to a pair of adolescents. So what to do? Use the police to try and hide it all. Shame on him!

Sacha

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:59:50 +1300

have to love the word "introduced" #pimpin

Tom Semmens

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:31:09 +1300

It was bumped for a bikini photo of Sonny Bill Williams latest piece of fluff.

Sacha

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:40:56 +1300

which Treasury emphatically stood by whenever they were questioned, and then revised less than a week after the election

Yes, where's the investigation into that piece of election-influencing behaviour?

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:00:35 +1300

Their predictions were based on the Treasury forecasts, which Treasury emphatically stood by whenever they were questioned, and then revised less than a week after the election.

Yes, so it would have been useful to spend say 10% of the space dedicated to TeapotMania reporting on how Treasury arrives at…

DexterX

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:50:07 +1300

cage-fighting

Armed with buckets of slime – the nature of the Act party implosion.

Danyl Mclauchlan

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:32:23 +1300

Because it kind of sorta really mattered that no half-way credible economist or policy wonk I can think of believed a word of English and Cunliffe’s rosy projections of when the nation’s books would return to the black.

Their predictions were based on the Treasury forecasts, which Treasury emphatically stood…

Rich Lock

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:00:13 +1300

Hey, that’s a d-vice device.

So, cock-up rather than conspiracy?

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:49:40 +1300

(5) Media and opposition alike letting themselves be distracted away from more important (if less sensationalised) topics.

And that is the only part of this I really care about. Because it kind of sorta really mattered that no half-way credible economist or policy wonk I can think of believed a…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 01:25:46 +1300

cage-fighting

I'd go 1-up on that... The Running Man NZ edition.

Graeme Edgeler

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:46:58 +1300

Delicious, isn’t it?

Yes, but not really. The police have an exemption from this bit of the law for the purposes of investigation. Parliament sometimes doesn't stuff up completely :-)

Sacha

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:22:18 +1300

cage-fighting

nzlemming

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:11:54 +1300

Did the police just disclose the existence of a potentially illegally-recorded private communication?

Delicious, isn't it?

nzlemming

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:11:13 +1300

Again, muppet move, and not an endearing muppet either.

I'm torn between Animal on P, or Oscar on a diet. Then again, Ernie can be a spiteful prick when you hide his rubber duckie.

Graeme Edgeler

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:10:59 +1300

The police saw fit to append this to today’s press release.

Editors note:

Police reiterate that it is an offence to disclose private communications unlawfully intercepted. This offence, is punishable by up to two years imprisonment where any person discloses the private communication, or the substance, meaning, or purport of…

linger

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 23:55:54 +1300

The cock-ups were simply rampant. Here’s what I think were the most, uh, prominent, in sequence.

(1) Key holding a media event from which he then excluded the press.
Muppet move.

(2) A freelancer leaving a microphone behind as he was hurried out the door – can we assume, for…

DexterX

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 23:25:51 +1300

IMHO Key and Banks come across as cringe worthy and asinine.

As a nation we need to find something for people like Banks, Peters and Brash to do in their twilight years that does not involve national politics.

Islander

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:46:21 +1300

Yes.

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:39:34 +1300

I doubt nearly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory was part of it. Still, we all have our off-moments.

Islander

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:20:32 +1300

Yes. Which tends to suggest that spin-meister Joyce had another scenario planned altogether...

Islander

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:18:25 +1300

Which leads us to
*cockup by whom?*

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:16:57 +1300

Or to put it another way: in this case, cock-up seems far more likely than conspiracy theory.

I wholeheartedly concur.

Apart from anything else, the major beneficiary of the whole affair is Winston Peters, whose vote doubled in its wake.

linger

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:10:39 +1300

There’s a cigar burned every minute.
Or to put it another way: in this case, cock-up seems far more likely than conspiracy theory.

Islander

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:05:23 +1300

Or not.

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:55:51 +1300

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar..

Islander

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:39:15 +1300

Depends on what else (if anything, and I'm not suggesting there *was* a what else)
they were prepared to offer – or, and I'm not suggesting there was, just putting out hypothetical scenarios- they had something on him...

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:34:06 +1300

Deal?

I wouldn't have gone for it myself.

Danyl Mclauchlan

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:16:24 +1300

This can only mean one thing as far as I can see. Key knew of the device before it was discovered and that points to collusion between Key’s team and the journalist.
Why? well it sure took the media’s attention off anything Labour had to say in the last week…

Jos

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:00:01 +1300

It's all this lot are capable of.

Russell Clarke

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:10:57 +1300

Truly a storm in a teapot.

Jarno van der Linden

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:44:35 +1300

When we first saw pictures the "device" was in a black bag on the table. When you grab a bag containing a recording device it can be clearly heard on the recording, not so in this case.

At about 7:50 it sounds like the recorder is being put in a…

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:16:45 +1300

I’m looking forward to someone with more time and wherewithal than I to re-sync the recording to the footage in light of what someone was saying about non-verbal communication upthread…

I'm told just such a derivative work exists — subtitles and all — but has never been broadcast.

mic weevil

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:59:01 +1300

I'm looking forward to someone with more time and wherewithal than I to re-sync the recording to the footage in light of what someone was saying about non-verbal communication upthread...

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:52:59 +1300

Hey that's a democracy making device!

a hammer :)

alobar

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:39:05 +1300

I don't want to credit Key with being that fast on his feet , but whether or not he had noticed the device before the end of the conversation he still wasted police time

Islander

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:31:58 +1300

When we first saw pictures the “device” was in a black bag on the table. When you grab a bag containing a recording device it can be clearly heard on the recording, not so in this case. This means JK knew there was a recording device in the bag before…

BenWilson

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:22:34 +1300

Hey, that's a d-vice device.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:10:10 +1300

There’s only one thing left now for those who still think the tapes are illegal, and that’s Mubaraking the Internet. Go ahead, make our day.

Danielle

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:05:17 +1300

He knows a lot about dog agility courses.

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:01:39 +1300

Hi guys. I’m back in the house and I’ve restored the link to the original post. I hadn’t had time to take advice and Ijust didn’t want to be fretting about it while I was out doing stuff and away from the computer.

Steve Barnes

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:54:48 +1300

Having listened the recording the most damning part is, in my opinion, the part @07.23 where Key says "is that yours" three times in quick succession, ie. faster than any normal human could respond, even if you include John Banks in that description. Then, without time to check he says…

nzlemming

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:34:46 +1300

Is there any topic about which that guy is not completely clueless?

No. Really, really no.

3410

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:21:58 +1300

"... because it's still an illegal recording". – Jim Mora, today.

Is there any topic about which that guy is not completely clueless?

merc

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:13:31 +1300

My early in word, expression for the year must be,
Hey that's a recording device!
I've started to notice where this can be usefully applied to my life,
Hey that's a coffee constructing device!
Hey that's a food eating device!
Hey that a vehicular transporting device!
Hey that's a democracy…

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:00:16 +1300

"how much did you overhear"? #privatemyarse

BenWilson

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:54:53 +1300

Cracks me up that the police want to interview the other patrons in the cafe. "Did you notice anything out of the ordinary happening that day?".

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:49:48 +1300

yeah, they might have voted for Winston or something :)

alobar

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:40:00 +1300

I don’t read HoS but i still followed the saga simply because it was interesting… and the fact that Key made sure they couldn’t be legally published gave the media a lot more fuel , but that was obviously preferable to causing voters offence

Phil Lyth

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:31:35 +1300

Al Thompson of Scoop has tweeted (@althecat) that he has taken legal advice. They have published, so presumably the advice he has been given is along the same lines as Steven Price (link given above by Merc) who strongly rebuts any wrongdoing in linking to the file/s.

Marknz

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:23:59 +1300

You don't think HoS's hysterical write ups had anything to do with why it became a big story? My usual attitude to the media is "meh", but boy they really tried to actually create something here rather than simply report it.

merc

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:01:19 +1300

Good point, http://www.medialawjournal.co.nz/?p=537

linger

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:57:11 +1300

But that would imply that putting "Key" and "principle" in the same sentence could have some kind of validity.

alobar

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:49:22 +1300

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:48:37 +1300

mission accomplished...
Well Key always said it was about the principle, so perhaps he was telling the truth about that much.
Key's an investment banker johnny, so I'm sure that when he's talking with Banks he probably meant the principal and whatever interest and leverage he could gain...

...and I'm…

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:44:52 +1300

Yet there has still been no legal ruling on whether the conversation was in fact private or public, despite Ambrose seeking such a judgement.

alobar

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:40:56 +1300

Key's main concern today seems to be to apologize to any elderly voters who were offended …and his comments on the tape confirm how obvious the device was… anyone still think the police complaint was made on principle?

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:33:59 +1300

The police saw fit to append this to today's press release.

Editors note:

George Darroch

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:30:25 +1300

A reminder of what actually happened:

John Key upped the ante by laying a complaint with police over the tea- pot tapes [...] minutes after he had laid out National's not-so- sensational 120-point economic plan

The longer today goes on, the more upset I am with everyone.

Graeme Edgeler

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:21:46 +1300

I’ve been considering removing the links from the post above because I’m about to go out and wouldn’t be in a position to respond with dispatch to any demand to remove them.

I note that although several journalists have published the links via Twitter – that was how I found…

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:20:33 +1300

It appears as if a major story was made out of very little.

By National's actions, then Winston's. Remember that the big media outlets didn't actually release the information.

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:19:34 +1300

Righto. I've removed the links and I'd be grateful if y'all could refrain from publishing them in comments.

I may put them back, but I'm out for hours and I don't want to be in a position where I can't remove them should it prove necessary.

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:19:08 +1300

ask someone else with moderator permissions to be ready to edit your post?

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:16:54 +1300

Oh, he is in charge all right

Joyce would be delighted to hear you believe that.

bob daktari

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:11:51 +1300

it seems many media outlets are only just learning howe this hyperlinking stuff works – ie most herald and stuff stories about (or sourced from) the net never carry a url, nor acknowledge their sources – this seems to be slowly changing

welcome to nearly 20 years ago for the…

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:07:39 +1300

It appears as if a major story was made out of very little. A strong case for deliberate political interference could be made.

That's not "political interference", it's reporting on an election campaign. If Key et al had not taken the action they did, everyone would have been able to…

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:05:07 +1300

Key has told Radio NZ he's unlikely to ask YouTube to take down the recording.

I've been considering removing the links from the post above because I'm about to go out and wouldn't be in a position to respond with dispatch to any demand to remove them.

I note that…

Pete George

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:04:49 +1300

While freedom of the media is an important aspect of this issue (as is privacy) responsibility of the media is just as important. It appears as if a major story was made out of very little. A strong case for deliberate political interference could be made.

David Cormack

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:35:26 +1300

No apologies from me

Oh no I fully understand from the perspective of the media, my sigh was more a cynical sigh at the coincidental timing.

merc

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:31:49 +1300

Key, I wont text you so then you can say...you haven't been in contact with the PM
Banks, yeah that's good (or words to that effect).

Crikey we have nothing to worry about here they really are doing it for the uniform.

Tom Semmens

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:30:06 +1300

what makes you think he was in charge of the campaign?

Oh, he is in charge all right. I think listening to the tapes you can now see the entire affair was inflated way out of proportion because John Key’s didn’t like it. His advisors probaly would have said to…

BenWilson

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:30:05 +1300

That's pretty funny.

Yes, if they were poking fun at Brash at that point, it was not without justification.

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:29:48 +1300

So instead of looking at the announcement of the Government’s lack of surplus for 2014/15 we instead focus on some tapes…that say nothing…about anything.

Le sigh.

No apologies from me. I was deeply concerned by National's response at the time, as a media freedom issue. I'm far more appalled by…

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:27:13 +1300

At 7.00, Key seems to be saying that someone from Act rang "rang me in the UK" and proposed a snap election to take advantage of Don Brash's inevitable surge of popularity. That's pretty funny.

BenWilson

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:25:05 +1300

Wow, no wonder you're considered an A ESOL student if you can master the NZ accent. I'm struggling to transcribe one especially interesting 7 second bit there, it's taken me several minutes, and this is my native tongue and accent. Key talks really fast. This is the bit I was…

David Cormack

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:22:47 +1300

So instead of looking at the announcement of the Government's lack of surplus for 2014/15 we instead focus on some tapes...that say nothing...about anything.

Le sigh.

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:21:42 +1300

Key’s furious reaction

what makes you think he was in charge of the campaign?

George Darroch

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:16:13 +1300

Tom, that's an assumption I'm not prepared to make. Alternate ones include media strategies, not having a plan and simply blustering, and principled action. Any of which you'd find supporting evidence for, depending on where you started.

merc

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:12:08 +1300

Key mentions rather obtusely that TV3 are on his side, onboard I think he says. I think this is a very interesting window into the level of leadership we enjoy.
Key, bla bla bla (as filler for what he will say), and the mention by the two of them of…

Tom Semmens

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:09:50 +1300

It seems clear now that Key’s furious reaction to the revelation of the tapes existence was based entirely on the fact he was personally pissed off.

In his massive over-reaction, the corporate culture of managerial bullying and intolerance to dissent that pervades his whole government could not be more starkly…

Dylan Reeve

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:09:42 +1300

That and: police were sent into newsrooms in election week for this?

Well Key always said it was about the principle, so perhaps he was telling the truth about that much.

I certainly hope this whole situation does make it into a court one day because there were some very…

George Darroch

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:07:41 +1300

The only winner in this pathetic business is Winston First. Thanks, NZ media. Watergate’s got nothing on you.

Quite. There were, are, issues of real substance that affected the lives and futures of New Zealanders in play during the election, some of which had made the 'agenda', others of which…

Sacha

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:07:31 +1300

Panic-pants earning the nickname.

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:06:18 +1300

Nice plausible deniability arranging from about 6:10.

That seems to be the most notable element, really.

That and: police were sent into newsrooms in election week for this?

George Darroch

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:03:36 +1300

Key seems to have much the same public and private personas, unless you consider that this is not a fully open conversation with a trusted confidante. That would entail further levels of speculation, so mileage may vary going down that route.

George Darroch

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:59:34 +1300

Not much to report. A prediction about NZFirst getting 3% (which would have been accurate if not for media games in the last week), a little comment on Labour's negative strategy and the correct ascertainment that it backfires on them when they use it, and some rather asinine comments from…

Adzze

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:59:02 +1300

ITT: Let's make fun of Key's mannerisms in lieu of anything shocking or even interesting in the recording. The only winner in this pathetic business is Winston First. Thanks, NZ media. Watergate's got nothing on you.

Stephen Judd

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:58:12 +1300

Is it wrong of me to have guffawed at the YT clip title?

merc

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:57:17 +1300

Theatre!

Lilith __

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:54:39 +1300

It would appear Key did say what Peters said he did! (about NZF’s supporters dying out)

Love the bit at the end when he says, “ That’s a recording device! ”

3410

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:51:52 +1300

Nice plausible deniability arranging from about 6:10.

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:50:55 +1300

The file is also available via BitTorrent. It would seem to be irretrievably in the wild now.

BenWilson

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:44:57 +1300

Yeah that's really hard to hear. Banksy is a real mumbler. Key, OTOH is hilariously Outrageous Fortune all through. "Yeah, nah,..." "Yeahyeahyeahyeah, heheh, eh?". It's a tiny bit heartening to hear that he's not putting that on most of the time.

Edit: I thoroughly recommend the Soundcloud one, it's way…

Pete George

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:44:22 +1300

Are the the timing, the opening Occupy screen and this morning's events in Auckland a coincidence?

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:36:47 +1300

From Stuff’s story:

At one point Key gives Banks a cellphone number – one that has not been widely circulated – apparently confirming the authenticity of the tape.

Public Address

Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:36:47 +1300

Discussion from blog post.