There is no analogy between cramming smaller and smaller components capable of…

difference between an old room sized mainframe and the latest Macbook Pro

That would be a factor of:
100,000 on disk (10MB vs 1TB)
50,000 on CPU MIPS
10,000 on cost (the other way, obviously)

Fibre would be 50x faster than copper, max.

In terms of actual utility, I'm not…

Perfectly fair-minded counter arguments. I've seen too many heart-warming headlines about economic benefit reports that aren't quite so impressive when you go back to the source (assuming it's been made public in the first place) — and find the damn thing is based on so many assumptions you've…

I'm not saying this isn't a worthy project, but we're not going to have a worthy public policy or economic debate talking in airy-fairy terms.

What's your estimate on the value of it? Just to come down out of airy-fairy debate and really crunch the numbers?

I wouldn't place too…

Sorry for sounding all Cullen-ish here, but perhaps you'd like to tell us which social services you'd cut "pittances" from to pay for this — health, education, vote Police etc.? Tax hikes? Increasing national debt?

Unlike Cullen, I have no huge qualms about debt financing for infrastructure. It'd…

And that's the rub, really. Even if it costs $8b, which was the upper end of a figure Maurice Williamson quoted, that's still a pittance...

Sorry for sounding all Cullen-ish here, but perhaps you'd like to tell us which social services you'd cut "pittances" from to pay for this --…

If that was only going to cost 5 billion, why wouldn't you do it?

And that's the rub, really. Even if it costs $8b, which was the upper end of a figure Maurice Williamson quoted, that's still a pittance. It's not even 8% of GDP, and the most…

Building high speed fibre to 75% of homes is like building dual carriageway roads to each home. Why would you do it?

If that was only going to cost 5 billion, why wouldn't you do it? Those would be some pretty choice roads.

I can't speak for anyone but myself,…

wireless networking (ie 802.11n) can already transmit super fast speeds and is only going to get better

Ben, wireless isn't the answer. It's got several problems that don't afflict even copper connections, never mind fibre ones.
1) The latency is very average. For voice services, latency is…

2-3 B investment in say energy and mass transport infrastructure is more important than fibre to everyones home.

Exactly. We are slightly lucky in NZ in that we are already 85% renewable electricity. We have the opportunity (largely through new wind and water capacity) to get that to 100%, but…

I can't open the video file on my Mac with Firefox. Any suggestions. I'd love to see Williamson as described

You need the Flip4Mac components for QuickTime. That lets you play WMV files.

You seem to misunderstand my point. I am all for the internet…

To get down to 1.5km and thus get universal 20Mbit (per this doc) would cost more than Telecom are prepared to spend, as would fixing the (maybe 10-20%) of households with flakey wiring

Precisely why it should not be left to Telecom. But also why it would be senseless to…

Okay Clarke is obviously from the school that if you walk on water he accuses you of being unable to swim. I won't waste my time in future.

My point was solely that the maths provided by Key in the press release and reported in the media was some…

To get down to 1.5km and thus get universal 20Mbit (per this doc) would cost more than Telecom are prepared to spend, as would…

PS: I'm sure One News didn't mean to be mean, but its video of yesterday's announcement, showing Maurice Williamson looking like he had in fact swallowed a dead rat, and Key struggling through his speech (send the man to Toastmasters, for goodness sake) wasn't terribly complimentary.

I can't open the…

Very few disagree with the emotion behind the Key statement just the rationale. As has been pointed out if you invested $5b in the copper network you would get a better result.

How?

I thought everyone agreed that fibre is the best long-term solution and it's just a matter of…

We do need improved speeds and DSL can provide it with fibre to the node. The issue is really whether Telecom should own the access network?

If they…

Right now the (Telecommunications Service Obligation) TSO is for 99% coverage at voice and 9.6kbps modem (!)

This could be raised by stages, initially to 2MBits, but eventually to match the worldwide state-of-the-art. The cost of doing this would need to be met by telecom…

a) They are full at the cabinet with no more room, or
b) They haven't got suitable switches at your local cabinet = 6 months plus (AKL is the no.1 priority though).

Telecom will tell you, if you find someone who knows.…

Six months later they tell us we still can't…

There's nothing so enjoyable as laughing your arse of at something you think your friends wouldn't find funny.

I'd just like to say I'm getting a kick out of these comments.

Some might sympathise with KiwiBlogBlog:

Laughed until I remembered I was old enough to have played these games.

It's in my too hard/don't know how to prgramme the DVD/mircowave cooker so I'm not gonna try it basket.

How's the quality of service. You'll be on surface lines I take it with no satilite – so has it may…

Gareth – the model is not yet determined and Fibre Co is not in or out. I would make the point that…

I figured this thread would be as good a place as any to post this little beauty. I've been laughing pretty damn hard.

There's nothing so enjoyable as laughing your arse of at something you think your friends wouldn't find funny.

Everyone of those US infrastructures privately owned will have Govt/State grants and serious tax breaks out the wazoo. US food is massively subsedised = Socialism for the Rich.

Key is making an acknowledgement the business model and 'Market' doesn't work.

That Telecom hasn't kept up with infrastructure improvements and…

Would food production and distribution, and petrol production and distribution count as essential infrastructure? The US particularly has plenty of power infrastructure developed by private business. I believe a lot of the utilities in the UK were private till nationalised. I read about a company this week planning a…

NZI estimates total cost is $4 to $5 billion and Nats are saying $3 to $5 billion.

DPF could you give me a better idea of the rough envisaged model here? (Can't seem to register at your site)

The NZI model was built on a price-regulated monopoly that buys back…

NZI estimates total cost is $4 to $5 billion and Nats are saying $3 to $5 billion. So your criticisms of the costings are based on not having read the speech which makes this clear.

No, I didn't read 100% of the speech – but I did read 100%…

Personally I'd like to see at least some of the money used to buy a cornerstone shareholding in Chorus, as opposed to a subsidy. That would probably reinforce the "Chinese wall" between infrastructure and services.

Matteo Bortesi, a technology consultant at Accenture in Tokyo, said that "the Japanese think long-term. If they think they will benefit in 100 years, they will invest for their grandkids. There's a bit of national pride we don't see in…

For my part, I'm still al little mystified as to any any direct correlation between better broadband and, say, better economic performance. Pundits: feel free to bombard…

The transition from Clark to Key is looking smoother by the day.

Agreed – I really don't know enuf of the others to argue. It's not an ideology I'm defending but looking at the reality of our essential infrastructure.

The cynic would invest in essential infrastructure and when it failed look forward to the govt cash…

showing Maurice Williamson looking like he had in fact swallowed a dead rat

i'd say he was probably annoyed that he didn't get to make the announcement given it was his portfolio. at least a joint announcement at a press conference might have let mr williamson feel like he was…

Tranching has largely led to the understatement of the risks embedded in high-yield debt and asset-backed securities backing the structured products. These risks have surfaced recently in the light of the subprime mortgage crisis.

Gee Mr Key, you sure know some big wordz.
Yeah. Call me picky but when a…

In Korea it's bloody fast but the main use as far as I could ever tell was to have websites with so many pop ups, bells and whistles that you couldn't find what you were looking for and for playing Starcraft online in PC rooms.

Yes but as the rest…

...Key struggling through his speech...

Is it just me or is Mr Key looking more and more like Mr Bush every day?

Seriously, that was painful viewing.

I'ld hardly consider most of those essential infrastructure (& don't know too much about many) but sure Terralink does some good work.

Well you originally said "PRIVATISATION DOESN"T WORK!". Clearly in some places it does.

Personally I prefer the SOE model for a lot of these things. If Telecom had some…

that animated KAREN thing is very cool

"In the first six years, priority will be given to business premises, schools, health facilities, and the first tranche of homes"

I'm not sure how one joins the "first…

AKL is owned by Local Govt – so devolved ownership – and a monopoly. It was always gonna win even with Banks as Lord Mayor.

Likewise Min. of Works…

The TV report mentioned focusing on municipals, schools hospitals and business first. That is pretty similar to the MUSH networks that have been or are being rolled out so not much new there AFAI…

At home as you say Stephen, we will only be using it to download movies.

I guess businesses may or may not need ultra fast connections…

I'm trying to think of a positive example & I just can't.

Auckland International Airport? Government Print? Ministry of Works and Development? New Zealand Steel? Natural Gas? Government Supply Brokerage Corporation? State Insurance Office? Government Printing Office? National Film Unit? Terralink International?

I don't follow all those closely and what they…

Am I the only one who thinks the money could be better spent on say schools, transport, hospitals, research etc.

I think most of those sort of groups would be quite happy to have better interwebs. The research institutions have steamingly fast interwebs, but it limits what I can get…

Am I the only one who thinks the money could be better spent on say schools, transport, hospitals, research etc.

The only thing a faster home link for 99% of people will do is allow movies on…

It hasn't and has always been bailed out by govt because it doesn't work.

I'm trying to think of a positive example & I just can't.

PRIVATISATION DOESN"T WORK!

That's a broad statement inviting 15 BUTS of exceptions.

PRIVATISATION DOESN"T WORK!

Telecom has failed in its obligation to NZ through the Kiwi Share and any competitors have already thrown in the towel to try and build an infrastructure.

This has been a long played and failed…

and, more importantly, found third parties willing to invest at least some of the marching private funding, for a long-term return. And then you build it

and, as the EPMU points out, found enough people to actually do the physical work.

This from Key give a little more info, mostly about…

I'm sure One News didn't mean to be mean...

Why not? They obviously couldn't be arsed doing any kind of serious reportage or analysis. Gee, David Cunliffe thinks it's rubbish (no shit, Sherlock!), but you're just going to have to wait and see what Labour's actual policy is. End of…