Angellika Arndt was just 7 years old when she…

Christine Rankin:"We're hoping it does (have an impact). If it doesn't, then New Zealand is lost."

Check it: if my PR stunt fails, it means _New Zealand is lost.

Thank you, Mrs…

You are aware that most contemporary research on child development says that children growing up exposed only to their parents and a small circle of their friends children is significantly less developmentally healthy than kids who spend time in creches and preschool, right?

Obviously not.

And as a teacher in…

Most of these earnest guardians of public decency said "apparently these images are very graphic, so terrible that I…

I really would have considered it if the suggestion had come from someone else. With late support from David Lane of the Society for the Promotion of Community Standards, the guy organising the smacking referendum petition and the Vision Network.

You know what really, really fucks me off?

Nearly all…

Such sentences had worked to discourage drink-driving, and they would work to cut rates of child abuse too, Mr McVicar said.

Did we not recently have some bad news about drink driving stats?

Actually I'd been thinking that if you wanted an prime example of crime where the perpetrators…

(as suggested by Family First NZ, For the Sake of Our Children Trust, and the Sensible Sentencing Trust)?

I really would have considered it if the suggestion had come from someone else. With late support from David Lane of the Society for the Promotion of Community Standards, the guy organising…

Kerry good point
"There has actually been research that shows if single parents are supported by their families/friends/communities their children often…

With respect, the issue doesn't concern just men. That…

Christine Rankin: against child abuse, apparently.

But in favour of motorway pile-ups?

The interview will air on Public Address Radio,…

"Suggested solutions are either ineffectual or draconian. To question all women entering hospital about possible abuse will offend many decent women, and fail to detect those who lie and the…

The general consensus amongst Herald readers seems to be that it won't really…

Ed – Science isn't neutral & alot of it is very much racist, reflecting the bias or (willful) ignorance.

You'll have to come up wtih specific examples of this rather than a generalised skepticism about genes influencing behaviour. The evidence that Ed presents is reputable. I can't see how you can…

__In 1996 the Australian government and Prime Minister Howard considered tighter control over the broadcasting of violence on television and videos. The communications minister at the time wrote to the television stations "ABC" and "SBS" and asked them to review their codes…

My issue with it wasn't that people get to see players being violent. The problem is that the players are being violent.…

I'm not sure about that one, but only because there are far too many people already abdicating the responsibility of parenthood by dumping wee babies into daycare that they pay very dearly for

You are aware that most contemporary research on child development says that children growing up exposed only…

What's interesting about research like this – and there will only be more of it in the future – is the way that the popular press reports it as 'rascist'. It's…

The (Pakeha) guy who did some of the most recent research was vilified by some in the press as a racist, but he was careful to stress that he was the father of Maori boys, that many Pakeha have it too,…

The research is mounting up that it's precisely those years, the preschool years, where the most damage is done to your sense of empathy and whatever faculties eventually become your conscience. Not sure how the state would…

Just thought I'ld add this before this twist of the thread goes too far.

Parihaka
http://www.historic.org.nz/magazinefeatures/2000aug/2000_08c_single.html

Well, no. It's a relatively common polymorphism of a gene that every human has. Therefore, it's possible for any human to have it. It just happens that some races have higher frequencies of the gene than others.

What kind of factor are we talking? 10 times more frequent? Or 1%…

Ah yes the myth of race

I'm not saying any of this to give people reasons to stoke their own prejudices, I just saw that someone mentioned it in one of the posts above, and thought that I would share a little more information on the genetics side of things,…

Does any race not have the Warrior gene? Seems unlikely to me.

Well, no. It's a relatively common polymorphism of a gene that every human has. Therefore, it's possible for any human to have it. It just happens that some races have higher frequencies of the gene than others.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/109926298/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

But this time it causes ADHD.

This explains perfectly how my Grandfather was Golden Gloves in the Army during WWII.

Oh and the alcoholism as self medicating for associated depression.

(I feel like I'm trawling through his old medical dictionaries again)

Entrenching The Welfare Mess

The Impact of Changes in Family Assistance on Partnering and Women’s Employment in New Zealand: A Preliminary Look (warning, chunky Word doc)

Evaluating the Feb 1999 Domestic Purposes Benefit & Widows Benefit Reforms

Note a consistent theme: going back to…

Hold on tight, Craig. That election's still a way out so it's going to get even worse...

You do know how to cheer a boy up, don't you Stephen? :) I just don't know how much deja vu all over again I can handle – wring hands, polish your carefully…

Incidentally, I agree with Emma on this point. I recall the poet Kevin Ireland talked about the abusive generation of post WW2 veterans ritually beating their families as…

Prime Minister Helen Clark says dangerous dogs give her the "creeps" and she is personally in favour of tougher dog laws.

There have been calls for tighter dog control after two-year-old Aotea Coxon was savaged by a…

Heh. Sorry about that...;-)

Oh, well I thought I'd already confessed several times over my relative ignorance of all but the bare bones of the…

Anyway, the interesting thing about this sort of problem is that, like the question, "Why did Rome fall?" it excells at telling you more about the hobby-horses of correspondents than much of anything useful.

Absolutely. The reason there's no magic bullet solution is that every abuser is different. It's not…

Whew! Radical...;-)

Seriously tho, I suppose like the seatbelt thing, if you really wanted to stop kids dyiing in car accidents you'd ban all cars and close all…

Well, let's say that for some bizarre reason you'd decided step-parenthood causes abuse in and of itself. What you'd want to do is make sure solo mothers didn't feel financially pressured to enter new relationships. You'd want to provide them with some sort of Benefit. For Domestic Purposes, perhaps.

Certainly…

A comparison of the incentives of the two policies actually would be really helpful.

That, at least, is…

Daniel if you have something more specific to add I would actually like to hear it. Maybe it is the nature of commenting online, sometimes…

When your dad smacked your mum, she shut up and did what she was told. When you got big enough to smack your dad, he stopped bashing you. If people were scared of you, you didn't get picked on.

I can totally see that. If you live in a (sub)culture…

Can you please plainly spell out what you think they are? I still do not understand exactly what you think the perverse incentives are. I really should be using my day more productively and I'm simply not up for Socratic inquiry.

__if you'd like to…

Hi Emma

The theory only argues that it becomes far more probable, not certain. The basic causal deductive argument is one about…

(sigh) Look, I may be guessing entirely wrong. Maybe everything is just AOK policywise, and couldn't be better. It's just that very often this…

By definition the DBP is only available where there is no…

Lets just devise humans that dont fall out of love from previously perfectly good relationships... And also devise ones that dont get horny and go having rampant sex with people they have no intention of forming a long term relationship with in the first place.

Where were you ten years…

Instead of a complicated wordy advert on TV, imagine a slogan stated by respected sportsmen/women: "We don't hurt people!"

I have made this point elsewhere but I think it's worth repeating: we will know that this nation is ready to do something about the appalling violence wreaked on children when…

Hi Emma

The argument that step parenthood causes abuse in and of itself is not just any "bizarre reason." It's a powerful argument that comes out of evolutionary psychology; it's deductive conclusions…

Lets just devise humans that dont fall out of love from previously perfectly good relationships... And also devise ones that dont get horny and go having rampant sex with people they have no intention of forming a long term relationship with in the first…

It seems to me by combining these two facts, if you wanted to have a high rate of child homicide, you'd incentivise step-parenthood, and vice versa to lower it.

Well, let's say that for some bizarre reason you'd decided step-parenthood causes abuse in and of itself. What you'd want to…

As I say, I am sympathetic to this idea as it has some scientific basis. It's probably in there somewhere. Problem is no-one's sure quite where exactly, or how powerful the effect is.

Why…

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=4022&date=20060609

http://www.thelocal.se/3734/20060505/

The impact of media violence isn't a fruitless discussion, but I feel is a bit of a red herring compared to other factors. US Surgeon General David Satcher in 1999 said "we clearly associate media violence to aggressive behavior. But the impact was very small compared…

What is "just" or "warranted" is not dependant on the opinion of the crowd

Crap it isn't. If the crowd condone the behaviour, it is hugely more likely to be repeated & emulated. If 10,000 people in the stands are shouting "yeah, goodonya! He was asking for it mate!" then how…

What I'm noting is the moral posturing around the issue, mainly from the media, rounding up the perennial unfixables to indicate deep seriousness and sincerity, and the absence of much in the way of specific policy discussion.

Yeah. OTOH, I think people are genuinely appalled by this in the same…

OK, well that may be. If that's the case, perhaps we should double the DPB after all.

Another important question might be whether the current NZ policy encourages step-parentdom or not. There is compelling research that a step-parent…

Joe Wylie asked:

Ever tried to intervene in a public situation where someone vulnerable is being beaten? The common reaction seems to be…

Hi Michael,

I'm not waging war against solo women on the…

I'd didn't think that Ka Mate was a war chant. Can't it be summarised as:
"Cheers bro! I thought I was fucked then, eh!"

As a brevity it is reasonably accurate. Agreed, Haka Taparahi is not a war chant. It is a posture dance.

A bit like hip-hop without the…

A good place to start is to look at those countries that have low rates of child abuse and child homicide, then look at NZ and try and sort out what's different between societies.

I was astounded…

Humans are social animals, and living in an environment that promotes or glorifies realistic violent endeavour surely contributes to a situation where an adult feels justified, even supported, in continuing a set of abusive behaviours towards others; and in many cases this would be children associated with that adult.

We…

Ever tried to intervene in a public situation where someone vulnerable is being beaten? The common reaction seems to be to be told to eff and mind your own effing business. Usually, IMHE of such things, it's the victim who's the most indignant, even if she (usually…

The New Zealand child most at risk of homicide is less than one year of age, male, and Maori. The child is most likely to have died from battering, sustaining head and other fatal bodily injuries inflicted by one or other of his parents.

Add to that " and the…

No-one has mentioned the Haka yet, my feeling is that it is mis-used in the AB context, not so in the funeral context.

Hmm, what exactly are you saying ? Haka in general or Ka Mate more specifically ?

I'm not a fan of Ka Mate – I consider Te…

How exactly is it inconvenient for Laws or any other man if a woman is asked if she has been criticised lately? There is a…

Daniel you've bravely waged in bashing up solo women on the DPB. Even when presented with the evidence that this has nothing to do with the tragedy.

I've missed…

I remain unconvinced that watching violent TV programmes or rugby, or smacking for that matter, lead in any casual sense to the sort of adult violence against children that is under discusion.

Agreed. The impact of media violence isn't a fruitless discussion, but I feel is a bit of a…

I'm now 24, and I see that as something sorely lacking in today's society.…

I am home from work now before rushing off....

Ask yourself: which is the easier place to start:
1) examining and potentially correcting a particular policy, which may through poor design be contributing to the problem it is supposed to solve, or
2) trying to redesign a culture or…

Well, ok. But it seems to me that wondering about unintended economic incentives to abuse children is at least a reasonable place to *start* unravelling…

Thanks for coming by Mikaere, and my sincere best wishes for the task ahead of your whanau.

Thanks.

We must stop condoning violence as entertainment, especially the unrealistic violence that has no consequences that is the staple of so many movies, TV programs, and computer games.

Brent, I think our…

so a fair tackle in rugby isn't violent, but a punch is?

Precisely.

The definition of unjust and unwarranted changes depending on context.

No it doesn't; that's why it's called a definition. It's what qualifies as unjust or unwarranted that is dependant on context.

Hence, a bit of biff on the rugby field doesn't count – just ask the crowd if it was…

Now, which of those effects are going to be strongest? Yours or mine? I don't think that this thought experiment is helping at all.

– so a fair tackle in rugby isn't violent, but a punch is?
– can one foul at Judo or kickboxing? Does that become violence when a fair strike isn't.
– or tripping someone in a soccer match?
– or a bouncer in cricket,…

Well, most of the op-eds I've read seem to be heavy on the vaguely-well-meaning-but-practically-useless suggestions.

Ask yourself: which is the easier place…

BTW, "violence" means "an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power". Hence, Martial Arts doesn't count as violence.

Hence, a bit of biff on the rugby field doesn't count – just ask the crowd if it was "just" or "warranted".

How many people on assault charges use the defence…

Those who think rugby leads to violence should go and visit one of the scarier UK soccer grounds, Millwall springs to mind.

We're talking about New Zealand. No-one's saying that Rugby, as such, leads to violence, but that inside the culture of Rugby in NZ, violence on the feild is…

It certainly might have worked in this case, and I would support it for other reasons anyway. I can't see the Michael Lawsssss of this world going for it though.

I think free, universal childcare from when a baby is born would be a start.
It would mean that kids get to spend some time a day in a caring environment. It would remove stress and hassle for families who find it hard to get childcare in order to work…

Addressing poverty as one of the factors in child abuse is very relevant and useful,…

It is an artificial kind of thought experiment because it would never happen. Well not in isolation.

That's why it's called a thought experiment, it doesn't have a real-life application.

That's because the solutions tend to coincide with peoples political hobby-horses. Clowns like…

The issues are bit wider I would have thought. It is an artificial kind of thought experiment because it would never happen. Well not in isolation.

Thought experiment: let's double the DPB. What do people think would happen to child abuse rates? Increase, decrease, stay the same?

well, I suspect it would have absolutely no affect on the numbers of people who think its acceptable (or at least defensible) to use violence when they are under…

The DPB is, I would assert, the worst possible thing to chop if you want kids out of abusive situations.

Thought experiment: let's double the DPB. What do people think would happen to child abuse rates? Increase, decrease, stay the same?

Lyndon, of course that is true. But as you know they have child abuse in Sweden and in every other country. And our…

I wouldn't have any problem with sending players off for taking a swing at another player. The defence of provocation or that it was an instinctive reaction doesn't sway me. That seems to boil down…

Socially entrenched poverty, a side-effect of economic polices and decisions of the last 20 or so years, have had a huge effect but just don't seem to be enough…

Um, drawing a meaningful distinction between being on a rugby field with 29 other adults and a referee and treating your children like a football?

It's a valid distinction, and I say that as someone who's main sporting hobby is a martial art. But it's pretty hard to deny there's…

if someone wanted to maximise the financial benefit to themselves of something like the DPB, it would involve having as many children as possible, and neglecting them as much as possible

The DPB is, I would assert, the worst possible thing to chop if you want kids out of abusive…

"Fight on Air NZ flight stopped by former All Black"

Does this mean the violence in rugby can be a good thing ? :-)

Newland's actions were more than just a blend of cunning strategy and violent cheating, they were a nod to a time-honoured tradition. Tales of players being levelled at lineouts are part of the fabric of the game.

A paen to the virtues of…

Even if it's only one child murder a year, it's unacceptable. The point I hoped to make (but obviously failed) was that nothing is going to change until we all want it to change.

It's that genuine motivation to change that seems to be lacking.

David Cohen was on Breakfast…

The first one is that violence is an acceptable mechanism of conflict resolution. Just watch any action movie. Violent people are heroes.

The second, and perhaps most important, is that violence has virtually no consequences. This meme is constantly reinforced by…

"The thing about looking at incentives…

I can understand that, in broad principle, if someone wanted to maximise the financial benefit to themselves of something like the DPB, it would involve having as many children as possible, and neglecting them as much as possible.

I have two kids, and I can't think how it would be…

None of them seem unduly troubled by the fact that Nia Glassie's mother, Lisa Kuka, was not a beneficiary. She worked long hours in a kiwifruit factory in Te Puke; six days a week, leaving the house at 5am and sometimes not returning until 10pm. For $600 a week.

…

But how do you "sell" it in a country devoted to rugby?

The rugby players are at least bashing those of roughly equal physical development. It would have to be made clear that it stayed on the field and while still unacceptable was at least contained. I mean let's get…

But how do you "sell" it in a country devoted to rugby?

Um, drawing a meaningful distinction between being on a rugby field with 29 other adults and a referee and treating your children like a football? Sorry if that comes across as snarky, but it's not meant to be.…

The second, and perhaps most important, is that violence has virtually no consequences. This meme is constantly reinforced by our popular media.

Agreed. And that's really the only way the sort of consistent abuse we're talking about could happen.

Thanks for coming by Mikaere, and my sincere best wishes for…

Apparently there's a gene that accounts for much of the variation.

To systemic failure and personal responsibility add genetic susceptibility to the mix, just in case things weren't complicated enough.

I do wonder if p use is playing a role in this.

In the end, child abuse will only *reduce* as people get better education, a stable income, decent housing and a positive attitude to life. The only thing politicians can really do is to promote that, not scrabble around for quick fixes that will probably be counterproductive.

I did some summer…

Further, I haven't looked, but if it's anything like other crime stats, then the racial component of one's offending risk – as opposed to other factors like economic status and history and so on – will be small enough not to bother with.

That's true. But it doesn't change the…

Right now, as a whanau, we are grappling with the issues raised by the abuse of Nia Glassie. We held a whanau hui last Sunday, and another one yesterday. We're going to find a way…

but turning someone from a dole bludger into, say, a cleaner isn't going to suddenly remove the thing that makes them the sort of person who'd harm a child.

If the "things" that are fuelling abuse are financially stressed, and having no prospects of your life getting better, then, yes,…

There are no longer any boundaries

Maybe you need to go back to the last discussion here and take a take a good, long, hard look at child fatalities presented in UN reports on the topic. New Zealand has dropped massively in the last 30 years. Contrary to your "kids…

I know that getting a cool job after a period of long unemployment feels really good, but turning someone from a dole bludger into,…

It's a very hard question as far as looking out for individuals goes.

There's the statistical approach: you fit the profile of a victim/offender, and the state will single you out. This…

child abuse being called our problem, since it is clearly a Maori problem

Seeing as nobody else has said this here that I notice...

A factual problem with that is that it's not just a Maori problem and any group claiming to be immune is flying in the face of statistics.…

Seriously, what kind of a terrorist puts a baby in a tumble drier.

One who sees violence as a normal part of life, I think.

There doesn't even have to be violence, as another poster mentioned. Today's younger generation have been de-sensitised, IMHO. Yes, boys have always played with toy…

Doesn't…

Am I the only one who got F*%k off with Sophie Scholl?

A member of Hitler Youth who didn't believe in it, but dutifully played her part as another face in the crowd.
If the movie is to…

You are perhaps confusing my criticism of Russell's post as implicit support for Michael Laws et al.. Wrong.

I'm interested in hearing everyone's ideas for potential "solutions" to the problem.

What I don't like is the way this issue just becomes a talkfest with no real action. I think…

What Laws is suggesting sounds like it would be pretty similar to Australia's 'Stolen Generation' policies. I think he'd regard Howard as a bit of a softie.

Luckily for me there was enough of a sense of self and some really great friends in my 20's that helped me get the therapy I needed (and still do).

This…

Surely those who are doing the outraged "anyone doing that to a baby is shockingly unfit for being in care of an infant" are stating the obvious. The problem comes from the way the media's focus on the obviousness of the symptom creates a demand…

Seriously, what kind of a terrorist puts a baby in a tumble drier.

Bored, Low Self esteem, doesn't feel in control of their own life and has learned not to value that of others.

1. Every citizen of this country has benefited from the systematic alienation of Maori assets into the hands of private citizens and the state. To the extent that there is a specifically Maori problem with violence against…

My point, Craig, is that society as represented by these sort of companies and people Russell quoted is uncaring and vicious. We should not be surprised at…

Oh, wait, there's "no such thing as society", is there?

Well, Don, abstract collective nouns don't rape, abuse and murder children and to be quite blunt I don't blaring headlines like "Society's Shame' are much of a contribution to meaningful change either.

A friend who works who works with offenders…

I'm not sure if Hone Harawira's plan to "lock [all the Maori MPs] away in a barracks down Waiouru ...…

The most depressing message you get from all these outraged spokespeople for the middle class is the "us" and "them" approach they adopt. I heard some women on the radio saying she was sick of…

One who sees violence as a normal part of life, I think.

A friend who works who works with offenders says you wouldn't believe how badly many were mistreated as children. Its the only thing that stops me from demanding that this tool's head be put on a pole.

There must be some way of linking the welfare, education and child intervention systems to compulsory parental classes and additional oversight and assistance for at risk families. If this is linked to welfare payments so be it.

Sure. And you might even find the degree of coercion required is quite…

There must be some way of linking the welfare, education and child intervention systems…

OK then, what's the answer to the problem Russell ?

I read the post expecting the ending to lay out your solution to the problem.

I did say I was trying not to pretend I know more than I do, but I think my point was that there isn't "a…

I read the post expecting the ending to lay out your solution to the problem.

In the end it's just a rant attacking every right leaning article you read in the papers over the weekend.