Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Evil

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  • kmont,

    I seems we do need more debate around these issues in NZ but god damn if it isn't tiring.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    I seems we do need more debate around these issues in NZ but god damn if it isn't tiring.

    Check out the same debate (same people in some cases) over here:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/08/dewar_found_guilty.html#comments

    See if you can spot Ron.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    Well, I've tried a number of times to contribute to this particular discussion, but it just makes me tired. I think ron fails to understand just how personally affecting these trials are to perfectly normal, successful women. Or perhaps he thinks that based on a technicality, our horror is unjustified.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • kmont,

    Thank you Heather, god knows we don't want to resurrect one of Tze Ming Mok's threads that never die about why women don't participate online.........
    mostly it is tiring.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Silly Question time

    As Dewar has been found guilty does this potentially open the door to retry Richards et al?

    I know about 2 X Jepardy but doesn't this change things, at least open the possibility?

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • james cairney,

    ron = ROSS? that's my guess, any prizes?

    "As Dewar has been found guilty does this potentially open the door to retry Richards et al?"

    Not possible. Already acquitted by a jury, so that is the end of the story.

    I am curious though, why do you think somehing has changed regarding their guilt?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 25 posts Report Reply

  • Ron Wilson,

    No I am not thinking of Burrett trial During the trial for which Shipton Schollum and McNamara were convicted the beach hut that was the aledeged place of the rape was magically spirited to Wellington against the orders of the trial judge. In a counter to this the police baton was also left on the desk in open view also against judges ruling.
    I want to know how the beach hut got to Wellington from the Mount. I know why it was put there but that is another matter

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 16 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones,

    Getting tangled up in a no-win intellectually dishonest argument while trying to explain the rules of logic to someone well past caring about them is tiring, alright. Horror, schmorror, my time is just worth more to me than that.

    If I were engaged in the debate, I'd point out that the standard of proof is a lot higher for putting someone in jail than it is for firing someone, and higher still than deciding not to hire them in the first place. But I'm not, so I won't.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • ron,

    Sigh, I do appreciate the distinction between accused and acquitted

    You wouldn't have guessed! I made the perfectly reasonable point that being a prostitute was not the best call to make as a serving police officer and I understand she was hauled over the coals for it. Maybe she was young and will learn from her error. She shouldn't be judged.

    I think ron fails to understand just how personally affecting these trials are to perfectly normal, successful women.

    And to perfectly normal, successful men.

    based on a technicality, our horror is unjustified.

    Being acquitted on the basis of insufficient evidence, if that's what you're referring to, isn't a technicality - it's one of the main tenets of our justice system, and rightly so.

    auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    But I would hate to think that you would be hung, drawn and quoted based on something you said (or did) 20 years ago.

    Oooh... unintentionally wandered onto some thin ice there, Ron. Twenty years ago, I was at a boarding school where I was (mercifully) not subject to the predatory attentions of either of these persons.

    Sorry, Ron, but if you think there's a statute of limitations on men who (as Russell puts it) "abused the trust placed in them, manipulated the system and preyed on the vulnerable over a period of years", we're just not speaking the same language.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • ron,

    Craig,

    No, I wasn't suggesting a statute of limitations on any criminal behaviour. Far from it. What I was suggesting is that when we're younger we may (or may not) be prone to errors that we wouldn't make if we had a few grey hairs. In short, we learn from our mistakes.

    But there's a difference between wilfully breaking the law and engaging in consensual group sex. Just ask Debbie Gerbich's husband. I'd hate to think he could be labelled as someone who preyed on vulnerable women. Even Howard Broad now knows that watching a bestiality movie is unacceptable behaviour. Whether he knew that 20 years ago is a moot point.

    auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 77 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    James
    As I said Silly Question.
    Just wondered if he had given evidence that was latter judged to be a lie and so may have implication for any evidence he gave priviously.

    Ron
    Debbie Gerbich is dead. This surely shows how vulnerable she was throughout her life.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    But there's a difference between wilfully breaking the law and engaging in consensual group sex.

    Don't think you're going to find anyone here arguing anything different. But I'd certainly wonder whether someone who publicly stated that his aquittal on rape charges mean that Louise Nicholas was a "proven liar" is someone who is fit to occupy the highest levels of the Police hierarchy. That didn't happen twenty years ago, Ron, and I really wish you'd stop trying to defend the indefensible.

    Oh, and here's another thought experiment: It's not illegal for a middle-aged man to have consensual sex with a 17 year old woman; it is, however, considered a serious matter of professional misconduct if that man is a teacher, and the woman involved is a student. Doctors don't screw their patients either - not if they particularly like practising medicine.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    michael f said it all ron.

    you're putting up a series of red herring to justify the depraved behaviour of bent cops.

    let me ask you again. would you like this behaviour acted out on your daughter? consensual or otherwise?

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Jackie Clark,

    The whole Louise Nicholas case saddens me, and many other women, for one reason alone. She stood up and said that what happened to her was not right. She went through all the correct channels, a number of times, to be heard. She did what very few women who have been raped are able to do, and that is to pursue her justice. She did this, not once, but several times, and each time was told that she had lied. And now, it turns out that the policeman in charge of the case was bent. I would argue that the entire case needs to be retried, if Ms Nicholas has the stomach for it. And who would blame her, if she did not? Thank you Russell for your posting today. Evil is not amongst us, it is of us.

    Mt Eden, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 3136 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. Red herrings, insinuation, wilful misunderstanding - it is the troll MO. Do not reinforce the behaviour, and eventually it will be extinguished.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Rebecca Williams,

    Thank you Heather, god knows we don't want to resurrect one of Tze Ming Mok's threads that never die about why women don't participate online.........
    mostly it is tiring.

    Participate? I can hardly bear to read it.

    But I will say this - isn't it weird how to understand / empathise with what it might be like for a woman to experience sexual assault and the horrors of the legal tangle that follows (if you dare to press charges), we have to compare those women to our daughters? Sexually possessive of our daughters much? Totally unable to be empathically involved with any woman who is not a blood relation (ie owned by men in the family) much?

    Time i went to bed i think.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 120 posts Report Reply

  • kmont,

    Sleep well.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    re: daughters.

    soz... was trying to get the troll to think his off the cuff statements thru. will take stephen's advice and not feed the trolls..

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • andrew llewellyn,

    I see Lord Lucan does not live in the back of a landrover in Marton after all.

    I'm kinda crushed by the news.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2075 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    I'm not sure which is more depressing: that we can find a village idiot wiling to defend any behaviour my a bunch of crooks in uniforms, no matter what damage it does to their victims, the integrity of the justice system, or to the day-to-day lives of their fellow officers, or self-styled enlightened liberals still pushing the delightlfully pre-feminist idea that the defining characteristic for the acceptability of an adult woman's consensual sex life his what her male relatives think of it.

    Women are not chattels.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    the defining characteristic for the acceptability of an adult woman's consensual sex life is what her male relatives think of it

    No, but I'd like to think that if any of my female relatives were engaged in some of the self-destructive behaviours mentioned in some of the abovementioned cases, that I would be allowed to hold an opinion, and perhaps offer some some advice along the lines of "what the hell are you thinking? You deserve better!" Not out of a sense of ownership, but out of familial (or just human) responsibility.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Che Tibby,

    Not out of a sense of ownership, but out of familial (or just human) responsibility.

    absolutely... i gauge crimes by thinking of the impact they'd have on a member of my own family.

    if someone assumed i view women as chattels, they'd be drawing a long bow.

    the back of an envelope • Since Nov 2006 • 2042 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I've suspended ron's account. I welcome a range of opinions here, but some people have said to me they're uncomfortable sharing a thtread with him, and, frankly, I doubt his good faith. A troll, in other words.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22849 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Thank God, dude was depressingly dodgy.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

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