Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Everybody's Machiavelli

david kinniburgh

Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:06:29 +1300

Seen on a street in Auckland

Sacha

Tue, 22 Oct 2013 17:24:40 +1300

The Standard reprints a forthright Facebook post by Hamish Price.

Lisa_J

Tue, 22 Oct 2013 16:10:43 +1300

You're right. Point taken. The matter of Banks' alleged fraud is being dealt with in a legal forum, so it isn't really necessary for it to be dealt with in the public forum for the moment.

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:42:39 +1300

And all because Team Palino just happened to be asleep at the wheel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juaM1Zrq9iE&list=RD02juaM1Zrq9iE

Kumara Republic

Mon, 21 Oct 2013 01:11:00 +1300

It was like a car crash – couldn't look away.

And all because Team Palino just happened to be asleep at the wheel.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 21 Oct 2013 00:10:26 +1300

But she’s not necessarily going to be seen as a good witness.

Of course not – if only actual bus services were as frequent as the ones Chuang gets pushed in front of by all and sundry when she's no longer useful, Auckland would be a public transport Nirvana.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 21 Oct 2013 00:04:30 +1300

Whether this Government will fully play ball with Brown’s housing/City Rail Loop plans is another matter entirely, of course.

Well, yes. But anyone in local government who goes in expecting the road to Wellington be paved with blank cheques is probably short on the pragamtism gene that marks successful mayors.

nzlemming

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 23:52:28 +1300

Wow, the comments there do nothing to change my opinion it’s a matter of when not if one of David Farrar’s resident trolls land him on the thick end of a successful defamation action.

It was like a car crash – couldn't look away. Though it's nice that DPF now…

SteveH

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 23:44:42 +1300

Interestingly, Slater follows it up with a tidbit that is interesting:

I guess he's seeing a Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy after all.

Actually I thought it was pretty amusing that they tried using that talking point at all: I don't think anyone was suggesting it was more than 5 guys so…

nzlemming

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 23:27:55 +1300

And Kerre McIvor (nee Woodham) has her 2 cents worth, slut-shaming and censorious at the same time. Interestingly, Slater follows it up with a tidbit that is interesting:
And she should get ready for more…since claiming on Facebook that she wasn’t going to speak to the media anymore she has engaged…

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 23:09:13 +1300

let's not underestimate Gerry's gratitude

BenWilson

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 23:00:53 +1300

Whether this Government will fully play ball with Brown’s housing/City Rail Loop plans is another matter entirely, of course.

Whether they do or not is probably not going to hinge on who Brown had sex with.

Matthew Littlewood

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 22:51:42 +1300

The people who find him an embarrassment at best would still do so, and whether you care to believe it or not, Brown is actually easier for the pragmatic right and business community to deal with than a flaky blank slate like Pallino. I could come up with more credible…

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 21:33:53 +1300

one of the funniest hashtags I've ever

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 21:06:25 +1300

speaking of popcorn, check what Luigi hath inspired #ahaha

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:48:49 +1300

Someone should ask Judith Collins to comment

Russell Brown

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:47:17 +1300

But I tend to agree. Unless Russell knows of some real impending blowback on Slater, I find it hard to think that it’s even possible for him to suffer reputational damage. There’s just nothing to lose. His key stat is attention, always has been.

The new Chuang affidavit the Herald…

BenWilson

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:37:19 +1300

That's a sober look at it, Alex. I do question how it's actually working out for the political right in the USA, though. Yes, there are frothing wingnuts. But they seem to be losing power.

But I tend to agree. Unless Russell knows of some real impending blowback on Slater,…

Pete

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:03:25 +1300

Thanks Alex – good stuff,
In the States the rightwing nutjobs seem to have succeeded in dragging everyone rightwards, at least a little.
In this country I think that the public opinion bellcurve is oriented further left than over there and we are also a small enough country that these…

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:05:04 +1300

Question is this: If they had pulled this Brown thing off, and got him to resign without their fingerprints being so publically all over it in such a manipulative way, what would have that meant for Slater’s clout within National?

Nothing. The people who find him an embarrassment at best…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:59:17 +1300

There's heaps more, and it all links together to form a pretty solid worldview that doesn't get a look in to the MSM; who are thus seen as complicit in it. When the National party ignores this, it's frustrating for them, so people like whale can feed off those frustrations…

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:54:12 +1300

all links together to form a pretty solid worldview

with D4J as high priest

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:48:14 +1300

there goes the neighbourhood

Kumara Republic

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:42:30 +1300

Ohhhhkay...

Reporter offers Chuang porn star role

__ The journalist who broke the story of Auckland Mayor Len Brown's steamy affair with local body candidate Bevan Chuang now wants to turn her into a porn star.

Former Herald on Sunday and Truth reporter Stephen Cook, whose salacious story on the…

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 18:01:28 +1300

Your thoughts on Lusk's influence on Whaleoil versus Slater's? He seems even more taken by the US model.

Alex Coleman

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 17:20:15 +1300

I think one way of looking at what's happening on the right is via a comparison with the US.

It's not the same of course, and I don't think that the National party is in any danger of going full GOP, but I do think that what Whale is doing…

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:50:25 +1300

Verily

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:35:48 +1300

Wow, the comments there do nothing to change my opinion it’s a matter of when not if one of David Farrar's resident trolls land him on the thick end of a successful defamation action.

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:25:56 +1300

Keeps getting stinkier. More layers of Nat backroom maneuvering (KiwiBog comment by Slater jr).

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:11:29 +1300

I agree with Ian Dalziel…the whole saga should be set to music by someone like Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Lyrics by Sondheim, Broadway’s resident cynic and black comedian, of course…

Early…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huxLKPsSyyU

or Middle Period:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGMQF2TaJaw

or Late:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gey1PtXYwLI

Take you pick, and remember just having no talent is not enough...…

Phil Wallington

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:06:13 +1300

I agree with Ian Dalziel...the whole saga should be set to music by someone like Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Wasn't he the one responsible for "King Lear on Ice" and "Typhoid Mary – The Musical"?

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:02:08 +1300

Steady on, Russell. Next you’ll be saying wet liberal criminal-coddling foofy tosh like, “Even John Banks is entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law” (which the Herald on Sunday isn’t).

But, yes… the bullshitty false equation of Brown and Banks has become a…

Hebe

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:58:04 +1300

'It’s easy to feel morally indignant about Banks’ apparent willingness to solicit donations for favours. Brown, unfortunately, has arguably committed a similar crime.'

Does McCarten know what the word “crime” means?

Russell Brown

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:34:01 +1300

Also:

It's easy to feel morally indignant about Banks' apparent willingness to solicit donations for favours. Brown, unfortunately, has arguably committed a similar crime.

Does McCarten know what the word "crime" means?

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:11:17 +1300

What a fucking dickwad word to use, is what comes to mind.

I think you would have been slightly more restrained if PA Radio was still running, and I’d used that word in such a context in one of my pieces. But, yeah, who the hell is editing McCarten’s copy…

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 12:07:21 +1300

Herald on Sunday editorial seems pretty balanced – no one off the hook.

Russell Brown

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:41:40 +1300

Oh, and what immediately comes to mind when you hear the word “solicit”?

What a fucking dickwad word to use, is what comes to mind.

Sacha

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:41:08 +1300

Renee Liang on those damn stereotypes.

bmk

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 10:46:48 +1300

There’s nothing sure about it, Matt. And I'd be damn certain both he and Councillor Cathy Casey would take an extremely dim view of a right-wing columnist insinuating he'd exploited the "implied obligations" of his relationship with his ex-partner.

That must be the first time Matt McCarten has been described…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 09:00:46 +1300

perish, parish, pariah,...
...she is now the woman scorned by team Palino.
Lessons all round eh.
Opera! Opera!
this has it all,
chic cargo cults
white whales
musichall chairs
dangerous liaisons
Italian subtitles...
snaredrumroll >

Welcome in,
welcome
to...
rimshot>
BrownTown!®

....

the rest is plain sailing...
a self-writing floater…

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 20 Oct 2013 08:55:21 +1300

Meanwhile, Matt McCarten keeps up the popular meme of false equivalence between Len Brown and John Banks. Weirdo money quote:

Our Mayor solicited sex and concealed the relationship, and then helped his sexual benefactor get a council job without the public knowing there was a relationship with implied obligations. Brown gave…

Islander

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 22:21:06 +1300

I know a bit more than what has been thus far published, and I’m starting to think that this could all turn out very, very badly for Cameron Slater.

Good.

TAUTOKO-

nzlemming

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 22:10:01 +1300

I know a bit more than what has been thus far published, and I’m starting to think that this could all turn out very, very badly for Cameron Slater.

Good.

Phil Wallington

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 22:00:46 +1300

One of the small pleasures of life is the rustle of a new morning newspaper. The smell of fresh newsprint and maybe a whiff of smudgy ink makes a heady blend of aromas. Along with fresh espresso and a croissant it is definitely something to savour.

Sadly Auckland's morning news…

Hebe

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 22:00:00 +1300

(I wanted to call it a Doug's breakfast after a scary deputy chief sub I learned from. Give him a piece of crap editing and he would verry precisely rotate his chair and nail the victim to the spot in half a dozen words. Shiver.)

Hebe

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:55:18 +1300

Patronising unintended. Sorry. Stating what I understand to be long-accepted journalistic practice in New Zealand. The lines have blurred into near-invisibility depending on the outlet and the author.

Islander

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:54:57 +1300

Can I conjecture that his father and other National grandees will be very, very displeased with the dog’s breakfast this has become for the right?

This one very sincerely hopes so!

Hebe

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:42:00 +1300

I know a bit more than what has been thus far published, and I’m starting to think that this could all turn out very, very badly for Cameron Slater.

I know very little. Tonight’s TV news interview with Cameron Slater gave me the sense that he is now wounding and…

Yamis

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:32:49 +1300

One of the main stories on the CNN website.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/19/world/asia/new-zealand-mayor-scandal/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:13:14 +1300

Hell, I’ve only seen what’s been published so far, and I’d bet my pin money on that.

Sadly, it’s not going to turn out badly at all for his media enablers is it? It never has before...

Islander

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 18:57:50 +1300

Instead I saw an unctuous defense from some nobody about how great he is. Eww

Probably Whaley-Baby....

Never gone to it's blog & never shall-

Rebecca Williams

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 18:38:51 +1300

I've looked at Cameron Whatshisname 's nlog precisely once, and that was just now to see what had actually been written. Instead I saw an unctuous defense from some nobody about how great he is. Eww.

Don Christie

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 18:28:39 +1300

Stone them all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsVAYFSEBrA

BenWilson

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 18:12:59 +1300

Its quite good to see Nactional grasping at hairs at the moment.

Ew. That's enough "mowing the berm" jokes, young lady.

Jim Cathcart

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 18:06:55 +1300

If Chuang is a geisha girl, can we call Len a sukebe ojisan (dirty old man) in jest? The Japanese seem to have no trouble taking the pis. The conspiracy theories ripping through middle NZ are far more nutty.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 17:49:38 +1300

We were watching Question time t'other day and the debate on Banks had Meteria (after being ejected from the House earlier) doing a stellar performance about him being the conflict sandwich with SkyCity Casino. Its quite good to see Nactional grasping at hairs at the moment. Riveting TV. :)

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 17:40:06 +1300

I’m starting to think that this could all turn out very, very badly for Cameron Slater.

Goodo. If Bevan has the smarts I think she has, then she is probably getting legal advice. In this instance she is now the woman scorned by team Palino. Lessons all round eh.

BenWilson

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 17:30:14 +1300

Banks must be thanking his lucky stars that this happened when it did, to take the attention off his alleged criminal activity.

I don't think it will help him. Public opinion won't decide if he's a criminal, a court will.

Lisa_J

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 17:18:29 +1300

Agreed. And while I feel somewhat for the young woman for caving in to pressure from her new boyfriend and his boss, she is an adult and should have realised that by making private details of her sex life public she would be, well, ending her privacy.

Banks must be…

Russell Brown

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 16:49:02 +1300

I know a bit more than what has been thus far published, and I'm starting to think that this could all turn out very, very badly for Cameron Slater.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 16:23:57 +1300

Now Slater is actually denying he was part of a plot.

Wonder how many were injured when his trousers spontaneously combusted…

And this is where things get truly bizarre...

Slater also denied he tried to sell the story to Woman's Day. He said the magazine approached him after the story…

Russell Brown

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 16:10:35 +1300

Now Slater is actually denying he was part of a plot.

He is lying.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:53:34 +1300

I’m struggling to see grounds for a successful complaint.

On reflection, I’m also struggling to justify wasting time time better spent at least trying to make a living.

Russell Brown

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:38:44 +1300

I at least expect them to meet basic standards of professional and ethical conduct

Please do lodge a press council complaint. You sound motivated enough over this one to see it through.

I'm struggling to see grounds for a successful complaint.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:14:06 +1300

Please do lodge a press council complaint.

Not a bad idea once I’ve got the paying work firmly in the OUT tray, though no harm in invoicing Shayne Currie if I’m going to do his job for him ex post facto.

Sacha

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:07:39 +1300

I at least expect them to meet basic standards of professional and ethical conduct

Please do lodge a press council complaint. You sound motivated enough over this one to see it through.

Sacha

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:06:51 +1300

There’s no sign at all that Brown “created favours” for Chuang

He did invite her to events. Some of the other advisory boards and their members might have wished for similar access to influence.

Kumara Republic

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 14:45:08 +1300

Get a new newspaper if the Herald annoys you. I often switch around online because reading only Fairfax becomes soul-destroying: “determinental” is this morning’s new word??

And therein lies part of the problem. It reminds me of a post by RichofObs a few years back:

Because ours are worried that…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 14:30:34 +1300

A lot of your arguments about this are just that: arguing. Get a new newspaper if the Herald annoys you.

Thanks, Hebe, because that’s not even a little bit patronizing.

I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention, but an unelected and unaccountable newspaper (which happens to be an effective…

BenWilson

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 14:27:15 +1300

That would kind of defeat the purpose of “a reference”, wouldn’t it?

Well, it doesn't have to be glowing. So for people who were very poor employees, the reference can be limited to saying the barest minimum – what their dates of employment were, and maybe their job title. Which…

James Butler

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 13:53:25 +1300

"[...] (one of her other lovers) [...]"

That’s a gross bit of innuendo too.

SteveH

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 13:27:58 +1300

Can someone confirm I have my scorecard right?:

Liars
Cameron Slater and/or Stephen Cook – apparently fabricated quotes for Chaung calling for Brown to resign
Luigi Wewege – denied having a relationship with Chaung
John Palino – denied any knowledge of the affair prior to Whale Oil's story
John Slater…

BenWilson

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 12:50:03 +1300

I’m sure the good people of PA can think of more ….

Shouted out "who's the boss?", indicating a tragic obsession with 80s television.

Konrad Kurta

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 12:41:28 +1300

"The columnists may indeed be employed on the basis that their world view reinforces that of the newspaper’s owner – and that has always been the case: they are not charged with or pretending to be objective."

I wonder what percentage of the Herald's readership make that distinction? I don't…

Hebe

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 11:45:04 +1300

It is a valid story Craig. A story that has snaked around to bite the biter and then bite those running the biter. The Herald columnists opine: they do not report; a crucial difference in newspaper journalism. The columnists may indeed be employed on the basis that their world view…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 11:07:12 +1300

Sorry I’m late to the conversation but I have been busy doing plumbing, not plumbing the depths of depravity but doing the real thing. ;-)

We know now, of course, about about Palino’s highly active role and his idiotic cunning plan.

Indeed, a plan so cunning you could pin a…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:47:34 +1300

She doesn’t explain how the current inquiry wouldn’t be a “proper” one, or what a “wide-ranging” inquiry would do that the one already underway would not. And more to the point, Chuang – who has been extremely forthcoming – has given no indication there is anything beyond Brown agreeing to…

Russell Brown

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:34:16 +1300

Jeremy Rees, the editor of the Weekend Herald has confirmed to me that deadlines prevented the columnists being informed of the poll results, which were still being compiled yesterday afternoon.

The same seems to go for the Palino story, which leaves Fran a bit stranded:

These revelations have made Brown…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:31:06 +1300

But here’s another thing: Like it or not (and I think it’s fair to say O’Sullivan and Co. don’t), Len Brown did win a free, fair and credible election. Who elected the editorial writers and columnists who want to nullify that election? How are they “accountable” to the people they’ve…

Paul Campbell

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:26:24 +1300

As a follow on .... I was thinking, in a rather tongue in cheek moment, that maybe the sex lives of politicians shouldn't be off the table, first person reports from exs might give voters useful insight into the people we are electing, certainly more than the couple of paragraphs…

Alex Coleman

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:22:35 +1300

I never said it was a good US tv Drama. ;)

Paul Campbell

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:12:10 +1300

In context being worried about a politician "cleaning the rough edges of your lawn" might, um, well, have a different meaning ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLoPKQZRjOQ

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:40:16 +1300

the story has been a bit exhilarating compared to the berms of last week.

Mine got mowed and the buggers wouldn't do the rest of the front and sides of the house. Most disappointing. Had I known about Len I could have demanded he serve penance for the good of…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:27:50 +1300

If he’s gonna act like he’s in a US tv drama,

If only… At least on Scandal, the convoluted political sleaze has some kind of unhinged “oh no, you didn’t go there, President Stalker Dude” ultra-camp entertainment value. This is just sad, pathetic and more than a little creepy.

bmk

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:15:26 +1300

It seems the Herald have made nearly all their columnists look stupid today. You'd almost think they've done it on purpose – maybe some people enjoy watching them make fools of themselves.

Tom Semmens

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:09:57 +1300

The 21st century is not as liberal as the late 20th century in many respects.

Wishing something were so does make it true. I think John Roughan would be much happier living in Salt Lake City. People’s views are more nuanced, particularly as we now live in the time of…

Alex Coleman

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:07:09 +1300

However, Ms Chuang claims she and Mr Palino discussed revealing to Mr Brown information about the affair and whether he might resign, claiming poor health. (He suffered a major heart attack in May 2008.)

"This would give him an opportunity to be a hero and assured that ... he did…

Russell Brown

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:59:59 +1300

And now Roughan:

In the Herald Brian Rudman wrote, "Marital infidelity is hardly a sacking offence in this day and age".

Well, most people think it is on the evidence of the Herald online response. The 21st century is not as liberal as the late 20th century in many respects.…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:57:47 +1300

I really don’t think that the Palino camp wants all the facts coming out, do they?

No I don't; just as I don't think a fair few of Ms. O'Sullivan's colleagues would welcome forensic scrutiny of their own behaviour in this tawdry affair.

But here's another thing: Like it or…

Tom Semmens

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:55:53 +1300

John Palino first removed him to “the North”. Now he has fled as far as Melbourne. One hopes he never slept with Bevan Chaung, lest Richard Branson receive a panic stricken call about the availablity of the Virgin Galactic.

On Thursday, the revelation Brown had helped Chuang get a council-related…

Alex Coleman

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:49:21 +1300

The right wing blogs are building themselves quite the little epistemic bubble. WO has reminded me of the whole Breitbart thing in the states for quite a while, which hasn't worked out too well for the GOP really.

And the first comment on DPF's post about the latest this morning:…

Gareth Ward

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:47:07 +1300

All this "all the facts on the table" stuff baffles me. Do we honestly believe we have all the private facts of anyone we elect, or deserve/need them? Brown is no different a person now than he was on election night, and there will be many other facets to his…

Russell Brown

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:38:38 +1300

Armstrong:

His decision – or that of his minders – to make his one and only media appearance on TV3’s Campbell Live was deeply cynical and supremely arrogant. It amounted to another slap in the face for ratepayers who are entitled to expect accountability from their mayor and that he…

Deborah

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:24:27 +1300

It's this bit I find absurd, Craig. After calling for a full scale inquiry, O'Sullivan says that once the (full scale) inquiry has reported...

Brown should stand down and call for another election where voters can either accept him or reject him in the knowledge they have all facts on…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:13:50 +1300

Deborah:

Could you translate this passage from O'Sullivan for me...

He is being helped by the drip-feed of revelations about the role his former lover's buddies in the Palino camp played in his outing.

These revelations have made Brown a figure of fun. But there is also a sinister element…

Tom Semmens

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:13:02 +1300

Yep, so Palino lied and is in it up to his neck.

Oh man, so much stupid.

Deborah

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 07:59:52 +1300

John Palino's press release is starting to look a little ridiculous.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 07:57:34 +1300

Sigh… and a weirdly pissy column from John Armstrong…

Deborah

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 07:54:20 +1300

You'd have to think that Bernard Orsman and Lincoln Tan didn't bother to alert Fran O'Sullivan or John Armstrong to the front page story they were planning to run this morning. For the first time, I'm tempted to borrow some of Craig's language to describe the posture of those two columnists.

Konrad Kurta

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 07:50:03 +1300

Does somebody involved have shares in APN? This is one hell of a story.

Russell Brown

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 07:26:32 +1300

Yep, so Palino lied and is in it up to his neck.

TracyMac

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 00:46:33 +1300

Because I’ve got all day.

All weekend too.

Damnit, late to the party again. *Stands forlornly with scones, crochet hooks, rope and carabiners*

Whelp, since I'm in a slightly different timezone, I can help cover the night shift.

Signed,

A Woman

(Who has read Dworkin, but who really does prefer…

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 19 Oct 2013 00:13:40 +1300

The challenge for the Herald is to find a way to report the facts without prurience, and they may well have failed at that, and all I ask is that you say how, which you evidently don’t want to do.

Very insightful, there. I don’t actually want to spend most…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 23:39:50 +1300

Really not ideal, but more a matter of the pickle he got himself into than an improper action. The reference came via his office and was no more than might be expected for an active member of the advisory board.

I really wish you’d explain that to the media org.…

Rich Lock

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 23:24:43 +1300

Herald-loathers can’t really be serious about comparing the two?

The problem is that whaleoil seems to act as a convenient conduit for a lot of stuff that subsequently gets picked up by the herald. That way they get to pretend they're not living in the sewer, just swept along by…

Sacha

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:40:02 +1300

a bit exhilirating compared to the berms of last week

nothing like a journo starved of a story :)

SteveH

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:25:55 +1300

Colin Espiner’s column making a comparison with Anthony Weiner ... was also fairly annoying.

Oh yeah, that struck me as ridiculous as well. I pretty much wrote off his opinion after he said that.

Hebe

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:18:58 +1300

The other thing that really annoyed me was Palino after the election not congratulating Len Brown after a truly resounding win, but saying how worried he was for Auckland and blaming the media etc etc which was essentially saying that he had no respect for the voters.

Tea Party anyone?

martinb

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:18:21 +1300

though: lets be honest as well as news junkies- the complexity of the story and explosiveness of the story has been a bit exhilirating compared to the berms of last week.

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:17:16 +1300

Garner, today, had me bloody livid when I read his piece saying that ‘Brown couldn’t have it both ways’, an argument floated on whaleoil and spreading fast.

Yes. Colin Espiner's column making a comparison with Anthony Weiner — who sexted unsolicited pictures of his genitals to young women he had…

Hebe

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:16:34 +1300

I have just visited Whaleoil's blog for the first time. I feel queasy. Herald-loathers can't really be serious about comparing the two?

Whaleoil blog is shit-stirring, not reportage. The tone is virulent and nasty, without humour or the slightest twinge of humanity. The writing is the ranting of someone who…

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:12:28 +1300

sorry- I was being a little sarcastic, which doesn’t always translate in text! I think you your comment has picked up the nub of what I was saying exactly.

Ah. Gotcha.

martinb

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:07:08 +1300

And then this…

martinb

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:02:25 +1300

sorry- I was being a little sarcastic, which doesn't always translate in text! I think you your comment has picked up the nub of what I was saying exactly.

And I see that that discussion, which I started reading pages back has well and truly been had...

It's quite a…

Konrad Kurta

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:58:08 +1300

"They've shown us what really happened."

Stephen Judd

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:53:15 +1300

Sure. I agree with your comments, in fact. However I think those are all legitimate issues of public interest to canvas in a newspaper. It would be ideal in many ways if Cook and Slater hadn't been the ones to break the story and done it in the way they…

Alex Coleman

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:51:56 +1300

If every man and his dog are allowed to come out and say ‘oh his poor wife and children, he must resign’ they certainly are allowed to put their view out there. And good on them.

Thanks martin. Nailed it.

Garner, today, had me bloody livid when I read his…

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:47:20 +1300

though someones probably already said this, yes the main thing out of all of this is that Brian Rudman should be very very ashamed. Astute analysis

Seriously? The main thing out of all of this is Brian Rudman's column?

martinb

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:46:49 +1300

I thought good on his daughters. They don't want to see some bs concern over their well being destroy all of their fathers hard work, especially from a piece of work like Slater. If every man and his dog are allowed to come out and say 'oh his poor wife…

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:44:20 +1300

What are the boundaries of private life? I think when you hold yourself to the electorate out as a caring Christian family man in an attempt to get people to vote for you and your values, and yet don’t live up to those values,

Which, now it is public, is…

martinb

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:32:05 +1300

though someones probably already said this, yes the main thing out of all of this is that Brian Rudman should be very very ashamed. Astute analysis

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:29:47 +1300

Stephen: With all due respect, what part of “do your own fucking legwork, and make sure you’ve got all your facts straight before going to press” is obscure?

I think that's what the Herald has done.

I would have preferred to go without the shouty front pages and yesterday's censurious…

Andrew Geddis

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 21:07:47 +1300

IANAL, but it was my understanding that giving a reference is something previous employers are required by law to do, and they can’t say anything bad.

That would kind of defeat the purpose of "a reference", wouldn't it? Having to tell someone else that the thieving, psychopathic drunk you fired…

Stephen Judd

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:56:05 +1300

what part of “do your own fucking legwork, and make sure you’ve got all your facts straight before going to press” is obscure?

What is "legwork" in this context? I understand that the Herald's reporters are seeking their own sources and writing their own stories since Slater broke it. Likewise,…

Sacha

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:44:25 +1300

between the hyperbole and the litotes

great biography title

Sacha

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:43:49 +1300

Didn't Whale Oil state that he and his father had received threatening texts along with Bevan?

and who do we think sent them..

Sacha

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:42:49 +1300

Danyl observes than Slater junior's doltishness may have done the Mayor a big favour.

If the story was broken strategically it would have been used to force Brown into making denials that could be disproved, and rolled out over a series of days with separate components leaked to rival news…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:36:37 +1300

I do appreciate your love of rhetorical figures, but between the hyperbole and the litotes I really cannot understand what you do and don’t find acceptable.

Stephen: With all due respect, what part of “do your own fucking legwork, and make sure you’ve got all your facts straight before going…

SteveH

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:01:27 +1300

It was unnecessary for Rudman to imply that Whaleoil’s behaviour is his father’s responsibility – it clearly is not – but I don’t think it’s at all unfair to consider John Slater’s role as the manager of a campaign that is starting to look like it was knee-deep in this…

Stephen Judd

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 20:00:25 +1300

I don’t apologize for expecting slightly higher editorial standards

What are those standards though? Could you please clarify:
– whether they should have covered it
– and if so, what aspects were legitimate to cover

I do appreciate your love of rhetorical figures, but between the hyperbole and the litotes…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 19:50:17 +1300

Really? No news establishment, commercial or public, could have left this story alone once Slater broke it. There are angles of abuse of power, abuse of office, morality, politics, and dirty tricks conspiracy that are both entertaining and of public interest. As it is, the Herald seems largely to have…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 19:48:09 +1300

What did you expect? I imagine the Ranapia standard would require a paragraph on A10 saying “It has been reported on the internet that a public office-holder has been indiscreet but modesty forbids this paper sullying its pages further.”

Well, snark away all you like Stephen but I don't apologize…

Stephen Judd

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 19:16:45 +1300

And I think it’s perfectly fair comment to ask whether Rudman’s going to grow a spine and turn that “brutal” invective on his own employers. I’m far from impressed by the sight of The Herald’s “Auckland issues” columnist posturing atop a moral high horse choking in its own shit.

Really?…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:59:59 +1300

His name’s Dave. I know that.

There’s a lot of Daves… might have to cull the list a bit to narrow it down?
It could even be your uncle. George Carlin explains.....
(lots of swearing for sensitive peeps)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUgWUpy8k-o

Sacha

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:58:00 +1300

The relationship between Slaters senior and junior would make an interesting read. Most likely full of angst and disappointment rather than pride and respect.

Sacha

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:55:24 +1300

I know I'm started to sound like a stuck MP3

time off to recharge your batteries

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:50:34 +1300

even had one NZH journalist seriously try to convince me they were “forced” to publish Whaleoil’s claims

To be fair, I also have to note the same person said, strictly off the record, that there’s *cough* considerable internal unease about how this story’s been handled, but don’t hold your breath…

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:41:18 +1300

One of the first comments I read that she had said was that she didn’t find him that attractive except that his power was to her. I guess that would have spiked interest from the start.

We don't really know the context in which she said, how strongly she felt…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:33:44 +1300

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:27:27 +1300

So we take John Slater at his word, and he’s running a campaign in which all this went down without his knowledge.

Tomorrow morning's Herald may shed considerable light on this issue, if not with respect to Slater Snr, then certainly wrt John Palino.

It was unnecessary for Rudman to…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:23:41 +1300

And yes, as others have pointed out, she is a player in this saga, and yes, there are legitimate questions about her motives to be asked, but I just don’t get the difference in degree of scrutiny the various players are being subject to.

I think the scrutiny is about…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:19:46 +1300

John Slater was the campaign manager. If a campaign activist was planning to drop this bomb he ought to have known. Any activist ought to have felt that doing this solo would be the end of their activism. Cameron also should have known that doing this as a black op…

BenWilson

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:12:08 +1300

Without knowing too much, would it have looked weird if he didn’t agree to be her referee? If I had worked with a Mayor on anything I’d expect to get mileage from it in job applications.

IANAL, but it was my understanding that giving a reference is something previous employers…

Stephen Judd

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:00:42 +1300

I think "hand-made Frankenstein" is a marvellous insult to pere et fils, hilarious invective, and well-deserved.

Sacha

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:27:43 +1300

jolly well done

Hebe

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:20:45 +1300

Because I’ve got all day.

All weekend too.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:17:05 +1300

looking pretty fucking sleazy

Sadly I suspect a large proportion of his target market think sleazy is a good thing.

Keir Leslie

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:15:43 +1300

I dunno I don't think John Slater can dodge this as lightly as "grown up son nothing to with me", when quite clearly it is a lot to do with him, and he really is looking pretty fucking sleazy right now.

B Jones

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:05:48 +1300

I can take the 8pm to 10pm shift.

Megan Wegan

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:55:20 +1300

Because I’ve got all day.

And pretty inexhaustible back up.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:53:46 +1300

We’ve already got SO MUCH ammunition on Slater, why the hell are you defending your right to insult other people in the process?

The way things are going, they're already doing a good enough job blowing themselves up with their own political grenades.

Heather Gaye

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:49:45 +1300

For starters that's an offensively one-dimensional depiction of Craig, especially given how open he's been about his background around these parts. Secondly, he's not shutting down criticism, he's rightfully calling you (and someone else, originally) out on some crass ad hominem being thrown around. We've already got SO MUCH ammunition…

Alex Coleman

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:48:39 +1300

Craig, while I agree that shots at Slater snr (or jnr) about their family relationship are completely out of order, I also think rudman makes a fair point. Albiet in a brutal fashion.

John Slater was the campaign manager. If a campaign activist was planning to drop this bomb he…

Danielle

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:41:22 +1300

I’m sorry to “trigger” your pain about her untimely death.

Is there a point at which you stop being rudely dismissive and patronising about theory with which you are clearly crushingly unfamiliar, or do we just continue like this ad infinitum? Because I've got all day.

Emma Hart

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:34:53 +1300

I’m sorry to “trigger” your pain about her untimely death.

So... you're doubling down on really painfully obviously not knowing what the fuck you're talking about? Good to know.

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:32:12 +1300

I'm sorry to "trigger" your pain about her untimely death.

But I just find it amusingly ironic at so many levels that a right-wing middle aged, middle class male is using these buzzwords to try and shutdown criticism of another similar person and his similarly opinioned but not related son.

Lilith __

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:30:15 +1300

WHERE IS THE FAVOURITE BUTTON?!

Your comment will do quite nicely. Thanks! :)

Perhaps the Ladies' Sewing Circle could sew on some buttons while we're here.

Emma Hart

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:27:16 +1300

You’re just there to organise the strike action.

Heh. You know how we keep banging on about 'negotiation'...

Danielle

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:22:14 +1300

You know that Dworkin died in 2005, right? And doesn’t have much to do with the terms you’re talking about?

In other words, if you’re going to be all snarky about feminist theory it might be wise to, you know, have actually read some of it.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:20:17 +1300

Seriously Not My Job.

You're just there to organise the strike action.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:17:45 +1300

UPDATE: David Tong, the chair of Aotearoa Youth leadership, has told me that Wewege’s claim to be a member let alone founder of the organisation, is false.

John Davy complex, much?

Bart Janssen

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:17:13 +1300

irony at work

I had hoped you were trying to use humour – however, you should be aware that all too many workplaces operate with such rules (unwritten because they are illegal) hence you shouldn't be surprised to see responses like mine. That makes such humour very difficult in the…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:06:17 +1300

I've sussed it. Craig is a robot that's been seeded with the complete works of Andrea Dworkin and will trip out the latest academic bits of spartist jargon as triggered: privilege check, slut-shaming, mental health-shaming, distract-troll , concern-trolling,....

If I call somebody a complete fucking eejit, is that abusing my…

Hebe

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 16:00:18 +1300

Thanks Danielle. I need reminding of that trip wire. Ingrained sexism always bemuses me when I strike it: it's so stupid.

Heather Gaye

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:49:18 +1300

WHERE IS THE FAVOURITE BUTTON?!

Your comment will do quite nicely. Thanks! :)

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:47:41 +1300

So, if I find one of the more florid street people that inhabit this city and set them up with an office and internet server to express their unusual ideas, and bail them out of any litigation that arises, then I haven’t got any responsibility for their outpourings?

A more…

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:39:08 +1300

Seriously Not My Job.

A hobby, then?

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:37:15 +1300

UPDATE: David Tong, the chair of Aotearoa Youth leadership, has told me that Wewege's claim to be a member let alone founder of the organisation, is false.

alobar

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:35:29 +1300

much as I'd like to call LB a hypocrite , I guess he's got a point about street prostitution (but perhaps his own use of public space is also a little too unrestricted )

Emma Hart

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:31:18 +1300

Ahhh, have you paid your subs?

Seriously Not My Job.

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:45:54 +1300

James Butler

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:42:09 +1300

Was good as a joke though.

James Butler

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:39:37 +1300

No, it's been drawn before. And I don't like his stance on street prostitution in Manukau, but the two things do seem pretty unrelated.

Neil Graham

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:32:34 +1300

Ahhh, have you paid your subs?

Oh jolly well done. Clapclapclapclapclap.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:29:45 +1300

I did NOT see that in the minutes…
Ahhh, have you paid your subs?
;- )

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:07:52 +1300

Given that no-one’s slammed Brown for his hypocritical grandstanding over the depravity of street sex workers engaging in survival sex while engaging in extramarital nooky with a younger woman himself, I might as well be the first one.

I think the reason you're the first is that it's a spectacularly…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:06:41 +1300

In the context of the pretty blatant (and casually racist & ageist) slut-shaming of that "younger woman", that could have been…

nzlemming

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:50:51 +1300

At least we’re still accommodating some complicated knots.

WHERE IS THE FAVOURITE BUTTON?!

Exactly my thought as well.

Craig Young

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:49:17 +1300

Given that no-one's slammed Brown for his hypocritical grandstanding over the depravity of street sex workers engaging in survival sex while engaging in extramarital nooky with a younger woman himself, I might as well be the first one. And given the possibility of improper appointment of same, Len's mayoral future…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:44:54 +1300

Please choose from the following menu of options:

Press 1] for "I am not personally responsible for the conduct of my adult children, and neither is anyone else."

Press 2} for "I've read Frankenstein, and find it rather creepy to be compared to an amoral lunatic patching together a monster…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:33:24 +1300

Apart from the provision of rather sub-standard genetic material, I believe that Slater's Dad's financial support is the only reason he is able to sit at home churning out his spew, rather than flipping chips in Maccas, or working off his name-suppression fines in a jail cell.

Lilith __

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:17:27 +1300

At least we’re still accommodating some complicated knots.

WHERE IS THE FAVOURITE BUTTON?!

Phil Wallington

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:11:10 +1300

A sense of humour and capacity to recognise irony at work are the well springs of the 3 "rules".

It is almost impossible to get through one,'s quotidian life without violating either one or all...

The consequences are not infallibly and uniformly catastrophic.

Some disprove the nostrum by violating all…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:24:21 +1300

Oh, and I'm going to regret getting into this with you again, Tom. But I thought this was a pretty shitty crack from Rudman:

This week, after the Len Brown scandal erupted forth from his son Cameron's blog, Mr Slater confessed to the Herald that his very own, hand-made Frankenstein…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:06:53 +1300

But just about everyone I know (self included) has failed in either rule 1, 2 or 3

Which is pretty much clear evidence that your rules are utter bollocks.

It is particularly stupid with reference to rule 1. Note for many professions, basically the only people you are going to…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:06:10 +1300

The mayor of Wanganui in the 1920s and poet D’Arcy Cresswell had a bit of scandal and blackmail going on.
That’s quite a story, and very relevant. Cresswell seems to have been something of a piece of work. When I was in high school in the 60s his __From Lyttelton…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:03:38 +1300

2. Never fuck anyone demonstrably madder than yourself.

Phil, you’re never going to know who grateful I am a certain someone I’ve been sharing quarters with for 18 years didn’t get that memo.

And a general usage note: If PAS is supposed to be a safe space for everyone, how…

Russell Brown

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:45:28 +1300

Diplomatic Courier magazine advises me: “We have removed Mr. Wewege from the Top 99 under 33 list pending further review.”

Tom Semmens

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:42:37 +1300

I see Cameron Slater is now threatening threatening Brian Rudman in the comments section of Rudman’s piece on John Slater:

This is a shameless despicable defamation of my father… one you will regret Mr Rudman.

Sayeth Whaleoil (about 40-50th comment).

Heather Gaye

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:41:02 +1300

At least we're still accommodating some complicated knots.

Richard Aston

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:25:31 +1300

Oh dear. Do you want to break news of this rule to my wife in her office the floor above mine, or do I really have to do it myself?

Ditto

Emma Hart

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:23:25 +1300

The BDSM dungeon will be used for a late-night crochet circle.

I did NOT see that in the minutes...

Andrew Geddis

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:18:17 +1300

There are just three infallible rules of conduct which apply.
1. Do not have sexual relationships with work colleagues.

Oh dear. Do you want to break news of this rule to my wife in her office the floor above mine, or do I really have to do it myself?

Heather Gaye

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:17:12 +1300

There are just three infallible rules of conduct which apply.

..or... y'know – ignore the checklist and act like a grown-up. I wager you're suffering a bit of confirmation bias.

Phil Wallington

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:09:21 +1300

This overheated "scandal", fuelled by self-seeking sleaze merchants and people who believe they are pulling the strings of moral outrage will soon implode.
It will be "all over" next week.
The system will throw up new examples of poor judgement which can be seized upon by the smug and self-righteous.…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:08:13 +1300

Can my gob have a little longer to recover from “Jock Anderson fired for being opinionated in an editorial.”

I understand he was fired for ignoring a directive not to publish an opinion piece on the topic which came down either way – he went and did it anyway -…

Heather Gaye

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:06:10 +1300

I'd like to announce that this summer the Public Address First XV (including all rookies and officials) will be replacing rugby with muffins. Whisky evenings will be wholly dedicated to sparkling wine spritzers. The BDSM dungeon will be used for a late-night crochet circle. There will be a ban on…

Andre Alessi

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 10:42:41 +1300

Or perhaps, "Speaking on behalf of all women.." to banish all doubt.

Andre Alessi

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 10:41:30 +1300

I'm still unconvinced that Lusk plays anything like a significant role in National Party politics anywhere other than his own mind (and the minds of those trying to justify having paid exorbitant fees to him.) He's certainly less influential than DPF or Slater, for contrast.

Hilary Stace

Fri, 18 Oct 2013 10:38:35 +1300

The mayor of Wanganui in the 1920s and poet D'Arcy Cresswell had a bit of scandal and blackmail going on.