Hard News: Electrickery
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Still, at least the delightful Mr Scaife is right on board.
yes, they apparently agreed on a few issues, such as -
On domestic policy, Sen. Clinton and I might find more areas on which we disagree. Yet we also agree on others. Asked about the utter failure of federal efforts to rebuild New Orleans since the Katrina disaster, for example, she called it just what it has been -- "not just a national disgrace (but) an international embarrassment."
Is this important or is this just a version of "since Huckabee supported Wright therefore Obama must be blah blah..." guilt by association argument?
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You can be as sick of it as you like, Craig, but I've read some absolutely hair-curlingly offensive remarks about Clinton from Obama supporters (and from the Republican side, too).
Danielle: And I've read stomach-churning race-baiting from Clinton supporters (not looking at you, Geraldine Ferraro) that is about as subtly coded as a kick in the crotch. I do hope I've not put all Clinton supporters in the same squalid pot, because that would be highly unfair.
And to be quite blunt, if Patrick Leahy's reported comments on Vermont Public Radio constitute misogynistic 'bullying' then Gods help the Democrats if she wins the nomination.
Let's review:
“She ought to withdraw, and she ought to be backing Senator Obama.
“Now, obviously that’s a decision that only she can make. Frankly, I feel that she would have a tremendous career in the Senate.
“I am very concerned. John McCain, who has been making one gaffe after another, is getting a free ride on it, because Senator Obama and Senator Clinton have to fight with each other. I think that her criticism is hurting him more than anything John McCain has said.”
Now, you can disagree with all of the above -- and Senator Clinton obviously does. But bullying? "Get in the kitchen and cook me some eggs bitch' misogyny? Please.
Oh Craig, are you feeling oppressed? And would that be the vaginas that are formidable, or the women, or all of the above???
Jackie: If I was that 'opressed' by women in public life, you'd think Margaret Thatcher would be well down my list of political icons. And can we do a rather simple flip test here: Don't you think Angela Merkel -- who hasn't exactly had a smooth rise up the greasy pole of German politics or an untroubled stay at the top -- would be mocked without mercy if she started bleating about those nasty left-wing men in the SPD trying to 'bully' her?
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And, Danielle, something else that really bugs me. I make no apologies for saying I'd volunteer to help Helen Clark move offices from the Beehive to the Leader of the Opposition's suite after the next election. But please excuse me if I take extreme umbridge at being lumped in with the fucktards on the rabid right who think vileness around her appearance, childlessness and (presumed) sexual orientation is the height of wit.
If we're all going to be judged by the worse among us, nobody comes off particularly high up the evolutionary ladder. I prefer to be held to account for my own speech and behaviour.
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Is this important or is this just a version of "since Huckabee supported Wright therefore Obama must be blah blah..." guilt by association argument?
Well, Neil, I guess if McCain loses his temper and calls a (female) reporter "fucking Communist cunt", Senator Clinton will give him a pass too. It's only fair.
Might also be fair comment to point out that Samantha Power resigned from the Obama campaign after calling Clinton a "monster" in an interview with The Scotsman. Now that was utterly out of line, but in my book nowhere near dropping the c-bomb on a hack for approaching someone in a public place for an interview.
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Well, Neil, I guess if McCain loses his temper and calls a (female) reporter "fucking Communist cunt", Senator Clinton will give him a pass too. It's only fair.
what are you talking about? Who's giving "him a pass"?
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“Unless there's some sort of argument that supporting Clinton is some sort of betrayal of the party and nation. There's still quite a few voters yet to have their say in this.”
I can’t help but agree with Neil on this. I think the Democratic party wants whoever meets McCain (Obama that is ) to be heavily campaign tested .
Clinton is fighting hard with some incredibly passionate supporters that numberswise would have usually sown up the candidacy months ago ; but Obama has played a great simple strategy of asking the electorate “What do you want the U.S to be ?”
It's a game plan that should be played every every time we (they) have elections.It feels kinda right for a democracy.
To go all punditlike for a second, it’s been a tough road trying to establish brand . If you remember at the start of the (Democratic) primaries they looked like they were all going to run together on a combined ticket.
P.S , I can’t really see McCain winning, put a pencil in his hand and he looks like a 2008 version of Bob Dole. I just can’t see a 2008 future with McCain. He was a 2000 man.
P.S …If Clinton was happy to have Obama in the tent isn’t it possible that she’ll get a return invitation? Probably not V.P but not significantly sidelined. The re - coming together of the Democratic party will almost certainly happen and will be pretty formidable.
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what are you talking about? Who's giving "him a pass"?
Neil, that's my point -- McCain would never, ever get a pass for throwing around that kind of language at reporters. And McCain -- or Obama -- would also be crucified if he was photographed with a douche bag like Scafie regardless of how much they agreed on on the policy front.
Anyway, I just can't see why Clinton agreed to a sit down with a paper that could most politely be described as a far-right fringe paper, for any other reason than cover to get her chip in on the Wright issue.
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McCain would never, ever get a pass for throwing
I meant no one is giving Scaife a pass. She did an interview in which she stated her views of which they agreed on two issues - exiting quickly from Iraq and how badly the Federal govt handled hurricane Katrina. (Anyone have a problem with those 2 positions?) He says that they disagree on more than they agree. How can that be construed as giving him a pass on any past behaviour?
Scaife is looking to interview Obama, if he does it certainly wouldn't worry me.
...not V.P but not significantly sidelined.
Maybe Secretary of State (she's exaggerated her foreign policy credentials but she still does have quite a bit of experience which would be useful). The accepted wisdom is that either would have to choose a VP that would compliment their own voter attraction - and neither of them do that for each other (but who knows). But even though I think it unlikely a Clinton victory is still possible. Clinton could squeak ahead in the popular vote if Michigan and Florida are counted.
I think Dean could wind up having to make the very difficult decision since his appointees to the credentials committee will have the deciding say on whether or not to seat Michigan and Florida. As Dean has been saying, some one is going to loose with 49.8% of the vote.
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Another reason for the Clinton campaign to call it a day: it's millions of dollars in debt and stiffing small service providers.
Money, or the lack, might end up making the decision.
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I think Dean could wind up having to make the very difficult decision since his appointees to the credentials committee will have the deciding say on whether or not to seat Michigan and Florida. As Dean has been saying, some one is going to loose with 49.8% of the vote.
The appointees probably won't hold sway anyway. Apparently the committee is mostly populated by Senate-type representatives -- three per state. Obama has won way more states.
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Apparently the committee is mostly populated by Senate-type representatives -- three per state. Obama has won way more states.
That Josh Marshall post on the credentials committe got updated, things are even more complicated,
Thus, even under a scenario where Obama’s campaign moves forcefully to put as many of their appointments as possible on the Rules and Credentials Committees, Chairman Dean’s appointees may still hold the balance of power. So the chairman may be able to exert enormous influence over whether or not delegates from Florida and Michigan are represented on the convention floor.
As in 2000, it could all come down to Florida. I wouldn't want to be Howard Dean at the moment. That might change if Edwards and Gore show their hand and it's very interesting that they haven't.
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That might change if Edwards and Gore show their hand and it's very interesting that they haven't.
Why would they? Gore, in particular, must know that if he issues an endorsement either way now: Goodbye Nobel laureate elder statesman; hello, a slew of media stories reminding folks of the Gordon Brown-ish relationship he had with Bill, the 2000 campaign etc. To be blunt, why play the best card in your hand before you really have to?
ANd can I say this from experience -- though on a much less exalted plane: You can grind out a win one committee appointment at a time, procedural challenge following point of order in an unbroken chain. But it's risky.
Fun and games.
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Another reason for the Clinton campaign to call it a day: it's millions of dollars in debt and stiffing small service providers.
And how about those unpaid health insurance premiums?
Here's the meta-question for the day: What rational through process would lead you to supply goods or services to a political campaign? And it's not just America either -- in England, both the Tories and Labour seem to stagger out of every election carrying an eight figure debt, a string of unpaid bills, and the coffers always seem to be filled in, shall we say,a less than savoury manner.
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"Another reason for the Clinton campaign to call it a day: it's millions of dollars in debt and stiffing small service providers."
Well that's plain bad politics and ethics, the clintons...ya wanna love them more and then they do things like this.
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Here's the meta-question for the day: What rational thought process would lead you to supply goods or services to a political campaign? And it's not just America either...
damn straight (no pun intended) - the Hero Festival in Auckland ran many years with accumulating debt and yet still people provided services (even those who were still unpaid from the year[s] before).
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John,
My mom was a delegate in Dallas this past weekend. She arrived at 7AM and didn't get to leave until 8PM. She said that it appeared the Clinton delegates were trying to drag things out so long that people would have to leave. She thought they challenged about 3,000 delegates and each of them had to go through the credentialing committee.
One of the Clinton delegates from her group challenged the validity of entire precincts. One of the precincts she challenged was almost entirely African American. Towards the end, after this group was credentialed they came by and shook their fists at the Clinton delegate and chanted "we're still here" in her face. My mom said it was a little tense.
She also said that it was sad to see all of the elderly there having to sit in stadium seats for 13 hours. She didn't know of anyone leaving without an alternate to replace them though. A very pregnant woman in her group had to lie on the concrete floor at times.
I don't know why this didn't make bigger news. She said it was obvious to everyone there what was going on and she thought Clinton had made many enemies from inside the democratic party that day.
Lisa
Poulsbo, WAAnd Obama still won Texas, 99 delegates to 94 ...
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It always seems ironic that the USA is the country that sometimes feels its their job to spread democracy to the rest of the world.
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I don't know why this didn't make bigger news.
It suits the media (and the Republicans) to keep this 'race' 'alive'.
She said it was obvious to everyone there what was going on and she thought Clinton had made many enemies from inside the democratic party that day.
Clinton is betting the farm on this race. The ends will justify the means. If she wins in August it will not matter (unless she goes on to lose in November, in which case it will be the ObamaDems fault). If she bows out now she knows she will never get this chance (to be President) again.
I'm sure Hitler (there - I said it!) believed in his own ambition too.
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One of the Clinton delegates from her group challenged the validity of entire precincts. One of the precincts she challenged was almost entirely African American.
What. The. Frak. If nothing else, how the hell does anyone in the Clinton camp think these kinds of Shenanigans are going to create goodwill if Sen. Clinton loses the nomination but wants to run again in 2012?
If she bows out now she knows she will never get this chance (to be President) again.
I wouldn't be so sure about that, IO. Reagan's first run for the GOP nomination in '76 (against a sitting president no less) was hard fought all the way to the convention, but neither Ford nor Reagan have got the credit they deserved for rebuilding a lot of broken bridges over the next four years. I don't think it was an accident that Reagan won the '80 primaries by a crushing landslide -- 1,939 delegates to 55 for all other candidates combined.
If the Clintonistas are right, and Obama is going to be roadkill under the wheels of the McCain juggernaut (which I think is crap, BTW) why aren't they playing the long game? A gracious retreat, rather than a knife-fight on the floor at Denver, would win her a lot of brownie point four years down the road.
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