Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Disrupting the Television

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 19 May 2012 10:34:50 +1200

Leave your telly at home...
Next week you can throw off the shackles of the suckling screen and get out and celebrate some kiwi music history.... (well, ok, only if you live in New Plymouth, Whanganui, Palmerston North, Napier or Masterton).
Chris Bourke and Nick Bollinger are embarking on...:
...a…

Sacha

Sat, 19 May 2012 09:09:00 +1200

retrograde sexual politics

puts me off the genre

Lucy Stewart

Sat, 19 May 2012 06:14:40 +1200

On a slight tangent, why is it that epic fantasy is nearly always based on quasi-Saxon or medieval societies with more-or-less retrograde sexual politics? The only exception I can think of is the Kushiel books (which won't be TVised anytime soon).

Part of it is What People Expect. I was…

TracyMac

Fri, 18 May 2012 19:38:09 +1200

Regarding the question about who would pay, I certainly would for the three shows I currently watch. Since Amazon has proven that the "long tail" model works, I don't see why that doesn't apply to other media. Sure, there may not be zillions of Lost Girl fans in NZ, but…

TracyMac

Fri, 18 May 2012 19:33:53 +1200

I have no problem with somewhat gratuitous sex after some kiddie-friendly hour (Lost Girl), but I found the first book (at least, I couldn't stomach any more) had lots of that shitty sex (incest, rape, devious) I can't stand reading about. Or watching.

There's a kind of underlying misogyny in…

Steve Withers

Fri, 18 May 2012 11:28:10 +1200

Sky is 43% owned by Rupert Murdoch, so "racketeers extracting monopoly rents" is to be expected. That this present government is actively *enabling* this agenda by running down public broadcasting assets we all own (and that Rupert Murdoch hates).....is just one more example of the "national" in National Party referring…

merc

Thu, 17 May 2012 17:21:04 +1200

revealing the inner workings of a coven of devious bastards.
Who had and still do not have any recourse to us, protected as they are by being unhinged from the taxpayer by their quasi-corporate status. Duopoly anyone?
It grates, you know, when the Crown pees on your back and tells…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 17 May 2012 16:27:01 +1200

saying it was at an end and they’d try to be simpler, easier to deal with.

Wasn't it said before an international telco conference, and part of the reason the audio was considered so damning was that it was a "This is what they say to each other in private"…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 17 May 2012 16:22:21 +1200

I don’t believe the “attitude” of not expecting to pay for television/movies is unassailable

The evidence from the home of The Pirate Bay is that useful, realistically-priced music services destroy the incentive to pirate for many users. Which shits all over the supposed argument that people won't pay in future…

Paul Brislen

Thu, 17 May 2012 16:21:49 +1200

Pausing aside (my memory must have emphasised it more than is needed), my point was that TG wasn't defending the practice, she was instead saying it was at an end and they'd try to be simpler, easier to deal with.

Clearly that wasn't the case, but I never felt she…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 17 May 2012 14:23:51 +1200

The TPPA may well make that a reality!

Those daft copyrighterers. Cant they see that people downloading stuff is the ultimate backup?. It could prevent the loss of great movies, or movies like this one.

James W

Thu, 17 May 2012 14:19:07 +1200

I don't believe the "attitude" of not expecting to pay for television/movies is unassailable. It's becoming ingrained because the systems aren't in place for a good, timely, legal way of buying television shows at the moment. But it used to be that way for music, too, and iTunes significantly changed…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 17 May 2012 14:11:04 +1200

Why cant the FBI pop over again and raid Sky TV for doing something that would be illegal in the US?
Careful what you wish for...
The TPPA may well make that a reality!

Steve Barnes

Thu, 17 May 2012 14:06:22 +1200

TV doesn't have to be universally appealing to be successful.

Try telling that to TVNZ7 staff

If this was America, this sort of carry-on would have been halted long ago, on pain of criminal charges.
In the Dotcom case it didn't matter that this is not America. Why cant the…

Lucy Stewart

Thu, 17 May 2012 14:04:40 +1200

Our 16 yo son watches GoT, but not with us, by himself. I'm not really happy with the concept of "gratuitous sex": that buys into the idea that you can only have sexual content if it's somehow 'justified', if it's made acceptable by necessity..

No, but I think sexual content…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 17 May 2012 12:11:07 +1200

Aaaaaand by popular demand, they're here – the official SKYNET T-shirts!

If anyone can point to a more local equivalent of CafePress, please do let me know.

Matthew Poole

Thu, 17 May 2012 12:03:38 +1200

I happen to have the audio (here, as part of a longer video clip that'll bring back memories for many), and the "huge pause" is no longer than a lot of the other pauses in the piece. About as long as the pause between "It's used confusion" and "as its…

Emma Hart

Thu, 17 May 2012 11:56:49 +1200

I'd flatly refuse to watch it in the same building as my parents, if it ever came to it.

Our 16 yo son watches GoT, but not with us, by himself. I'm not really happy with the concept of "gratuitous sex": that buys into the idea that you can only…

Lucy Stewart

Thu, 17 May 2012 11:36:26 +1200

I too am broadly in favour of boobs, but here they are just gratuitous.

I do wish that it wasn't notable when a whole episode goes by with nary a bared bosom or monologue-laden sex scene, but it's not a deal-breaker for me – though I'd flatly refuse to watch…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 17 May 2012 11:04:38 +1200

Sadly it’s disappeared from YouTube.

Or not. Maybe the original was just in a cat & mouse game with the parody police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89eACWxAvQ

Paul Brislen

Thu, 17 May 2012 10:06:22 +1200

Actually the Gattung quote is usually taken out of context.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10380894

has the story but you don't get the real flavour for how she's saying it. Sadly it's disappeared from YouTube.

She was referring to a history that she was glad to see the back of.

"Think about pricing. What…

Paul Rowe

Thu, 17 May 2012 10:02:48 +1200

I agree with you there (and I was raised on that stuff, to my wife's horror, I have the geek creds).

I have a feeling at least part of its success is because it's the first big-budget TV fantasy project since Lord of the Rings. There is a market for…

Lucy Stewart

Wed, 16 May 2012 23:18:50 +1200

I have an extremely low hey-nonny-nonny threshold, so I was wary, but basically what it reminds me of is I, Claudius, which can only be a good thing. I am a real sucker for evil political machinations and family plots. And boobs. ;)

At the end of the day, it's…

Sacha

Wed, 16 May 2012 22:19:29 +1200

is not broadly applicable

True, though I believe that was another pre-Photoshop thing about photography being somehow more truthful.

Sacha

Wed, 16 May 2012 22:17:37 +1200

I am a real sucker for evil political machinations and family plots.
And boobs. ;)

well that's OK then :)

Matthew Poole

Wed, 16 May 2012 21:23:55 +1200

It's worse than that. She got snapped saying it while Telecom was still being the rapacious incumbent and she was in charge. There're suspicions that the recording of her saying that was the last straw for Labour.

Gattung got rewarded for running a successful company into the ground. If ever…

merc

Wed, 16 May 2012 20:59:09 +1200

Theresa Gattung, on receiving her golden parachute payment, approximately 5m, stated with bare honesty she had advocated the use of deception in their advertising campaigns in order to achieve market gains.
The people I knew who shouted most loudly as to Telecom's success were those who had shares in the…

SteveH

Wed, 16 May 2012 19:35:01 +1200

There’s no bloody excuse for having data allocations expire after a month – and it doesn’t happen in many other countries.
It's dodgy. What I find interesting is that Telecom used to roll any unused data over – it was the primary reason I went with them when I got…

Danielle

Wed, 16 May 2012 18:21:21 +1200

I don’t get it either.

I have an extremely low hey-nonny-nonny threshold, so I was wary, but basically what it reminds me of is I, Claudius, which can only be a good thing. I am a real sucker for evil political machinations and family plots. And boobs. ;)

(It'll have…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 16 May 2012 15:18:39 +1200

You may recall sculptor John Radford’s case against Hallensteins using photos of his works on teeshirts.

That was related to a fillip of copyright law which protects against photographic reproduction of sculptures that are installed in a public space. I can’t recall the exact section of the law, but it…

Sacha

Wed, 16 May 2012 15:04:59 +1200

What about photos or videos of an artwork?

You may recall sculptor John Radford's case against Hallensteins using photos of his works on teeshirts.

Matthew Poole

Wed, 16 May 2012 14:42:27 +1200

That's not fair dealing, it's republication. Fair dealing covers the narrow situations of review/criticism (of the work), reporting on current affairs, and education. In all those cases it's only permitted to use a portion of the work, generally accepted as being about 10% (but that's not hard-and-fast because you could…

JacksonP

Wed, 16 May 2012 14:18:21 +1200

Those mediums are multi-part and snippets can be used without having to use the whole thing. The same is really not possible with a photograph.

What about photos or videos of an artwork? When I took the photos of The Cut Collective show Public Access 5 at Silo Park, I…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 16 May 2012 14:04:50 +1200

300 Mbs, 30 minutes talk, and 300 texts for $19.

I have a deal with Telecom, 500mb double they called it. Gave me a Gig of data and 5000 txt for $38 per month. They have decided to cull that deal and now want me to put up with 300mb…

merc

Wed, 16 May 2012 13:59:59 +1200

Proving that having shares in govt. backed monopolies requires forethought, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/television/news/article.cfm?c_id=339&objectid=10806247

Matthew Poole

Wed, 16 May 2012 13:21:55 +1200

cropping?

Only if you cropped out anything of significance, one would assume. Maybe, as an example, if you were an architecture lecturer and you wanted to show students a design feature that you saw in the background of a photo you could try and argue fair dealing, but to retain…

Russell Brown

Wed, 16 May 2012 13:16:06 +1200

And not before time too. If this was America, the anti-trust regulators would be whipping out their chainsaws.

If this was America, this sort of carry-on would have been halted long ago, on pain of criminal charges.

Russell Brown

Wed, 16 May 2012 13:14:46 +1200

I tried to love it, really tried, but in the end decided it was a soap opera in animal furs (the book was unreadable).

I don't get it either. Or, at least, why people are so excited about it.

Rob Stowell

Wed, 16 May 2012 13:02:04 +1200

Probably :) Post then check- or get Sacha to sub-edit- is a poor operating model, but alas, the new firmware update is still uploading :)

Sacha

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:57:24 +1200

go Kai Tahu

different iwi, isn't it?

Sacha

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:56:55 +1200

cropping?

Matthew Poole

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:55:05 +1200

I don't get the blanket exclusion of photos either.

Well, fair dealing is the use of part of a work for the various purposes permitted: review/criticism, current affairs reporting, and education. How do you use part of a photograph in any meaningful way in any of those situations? Given that…

Rob Stowell

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:40:30 +1200

But Vodafone does let you spend as little as $20 for 250MB, which is okay for trips away
2 degrees (go Kai Tahu!?) have a 'national data pack' that gives you 300 Mbs, 30 minutes talk, and 300 texts for $19.
A pretty reasonable deal- but much better if it…

Paul Rowe

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:00 +1200

Apparently Game of Thrones is the most pirated show of the year

I tried to love it, really tried, but in the end decided it was a soap opera in animal furs (the book was unreadable). After about three months, I ditched the Soho sub in favour of Rialto, and…

Mikaere Curtis

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:27:41 +1200

I’m guessing there is some kind of perfect storm there with the targeted audience also being the one most likely to have the knowledge and skills to download it.
It also happens to have excellent talent, high production values and cracking plot-lines.

I watch it on Soho via MySky, it's…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 May 2012 11:05:42 +1200

And not before time too. If this was America, the anti-trust regulators would be whipping out their chainsaws.

Probe launched into Sky TV content deals

Martin Lindberg

Wed, 16 May 2012 09:04:42 +1200

Apparently Game of Thrones is the most pirated show of the year.

I'm guessing there is some kind of perfect storm there with the targeted audience also being the one most likely to have the knowledge and skills to download it.

Stewart

Wed, 16 May 2012 08:27:01 +1200

Reading this thread is enlightening (up to a point) but also depressing.

Our b/band is so JohnKey/shonky that we can't even set up a Skype account, never mind torrenting stuff that might or might not be legally available.
(Maybe the Skype failure was weather-related; we're talking Monday in west Auckland…

Lucy Stewart

Wed, 16 May 2012 08:26:32 +1200

He dismisses Americans downloading his shows after the British broadcast as greedy people not willing to wait, but I think there's more to it than that.

Ah, yes, the "How dare you be so emotionally attached to my creative output?!" argument. I've never understood the logic behind that one.

Karen Hester

Wed, 16 May 2012 06:30:36 +1200

There was a good Studio 360 interview with Steven Moffat (not sure if it'll play in NZ; uncut interview further down page). He dismisses Americans downloading his shows after the British broadcast as greedy people not willing to wait, but I think there's more to it than that. Watching at…

Lucy Stewart

Wed, 16 May 2012 03:06:47 +1200

I have to believe that yes it would – I don't steal TV because it's free, I steal it because I can't get it any other way.

My downloading has effectively dried up since I came to the US. That's partly because our household income has multiplied, and mostly because…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 15 May 2012 20:37:28 +1200

The HBO-it...
just to watch GoT....
The production values on Game of Thrones seem so high, that it seems a shame you can't see it on a big movie screen, I wonder if they might not take the reverse action (now that so many cinemas seem to be going digital)…

Jeremy Andrew

Tue, 15 May 2012 19:49:32 +1200

I downloaded GoT season 1 because I _couldn't_ pay for it, even though I wanted to. Now season 2 is available at usorious prices from Sky, I'm not downloading it, I'm just waiting for the DVD/Bluray. Even if I actually paid approaching $100 a month to Sky just to watch…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 15 May 2012 18:01:22 +1200

Has anyone investigated the feasibility of pay-as-you-download “digital toll booths” at download sites and suchlike?

As an aside, last week I purchased a couple of albums from Slow Boat Records on Cuba St, and converted them for iPod listening.

Paul Brislen

Tue, 15 May 2012 17:55:34 +1200

I have to believe that yes it would – I don't steal TV because it's free, I steal it because I can't get it any other way. There will always be those folk who decide to flout the law regardless and I have no sympathy with those that are getting…

JacksonP

Tue, 15 May 2012 17:52:32 +1200

And no, I don’t get the blanket exclusion of photos either.

Can I borrow your researcher before tomorrow night. ;-)

Russell Brown

Tue, 15 May 2012 17:11:55 +1200

A related question about having to buy the whole nine yards when you only want 2.5cm or so … what possible reason is there (other than that telecoms companies are bastards) for not being able to buy a given amount of date for use on a mobile device and using…

Russell Brown

Tue, 15 May 2012 17:09:03 +1200

And my thing is music, mostly because I have friends who are musicians. My flatmate, who’s worked in television, won’t pirate TV shows, but is happy to download music.

There are massive grey areas in music. Lots of what I find via places like the Hype Machine and Soundcloud is…

Peter Calder

Tue, 15 May 2012 16:22:29 +1200

A related question about having to buy the whole nine yards when you only want 2.5cm or so ... what possible reason is there (other than that telecoms companies are bastards) for not being able to buy a given amount of date for use on a mobile device and using…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 15 May 2012 16:19:52 +1200

I agree that the attitude that everything is–or should be–free, poses a real threat to creatives

And yet it's actually quite hard to figure out how best to get your money to the actual creatives. My solution of buying the blu-rays may be wrong. I know buying CDs isn't the…

Geoff Lealand

Tue, 15 May 2012 16:08:45 +1200

Not sure if I really want more services offering more options, when I can’t keep up with is already available eg I bought the 5 DVD set of Mark Cousins’ wonderful The Story of Film: An Odyssey and after 10 days, have only managed two hours of the fifteen hours.…

Graham Dunster

Tue, 15 May 2012 16:04:57 +1200

(Pity the poor British, who are only just getting the last series of True Blood.)

Pity the poor Kiwis, only just getting the series before last (3) of 'Breaking Bad' whilst series 4 is already out on DVD in Oz.

Dan Salmon

Tue, 15 May 2012 15:59:44 +1200

What is the legal situation for the pre-existing blocking services?

Morgan Nichol

Tue, 15 May 2012 15:31:46 +1200

Sometimes you need to watch Total Wipeout on BBC iPlayer and when you need that you need it now.

(And then you'll learn that the UK version of Total Wipeout is 59 minutes long, compared with the 24 minute US version. And yet they do all the same sort of…

Alice Ronald

Tue, 15 May 2012 15:22:42 +1200

And my thing is music, mostly because I have friends who are musicians. My flatmate, who's worked in television, won't pirate TV shows, but is happy to download music. We've chosen to support the industries that we feel some kind of connection with.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 15 May 2012 14:41:47 +1200

And I feel no guilt at all about grabbing documentaries that won’t screen here for years, if ever.

Good call.

And I'm not trying to be holier than thou about my attitude. It's just I can afford to pay and since I don't really understand how writers/directors/etc all get paid…

Nick Melchior

Tue, 15 May 2012 14:01:20 +1200

This is true to a point, but HBO are hardly running out of cash at the moment and I know a lot of people who get Sky more or less for SoHo. But I would be enourmously surprised if HBO did any research whatsoever about creating HGOGo for Australia.

Russell Brown

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:56:38 +1200

But for TV programs especially good ones the problem I have is who will pay to get them made?

We don't do movies in our house. And I feel no guilt at all about grabbing documentaries that won't screen here for years, if ever.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:51:10 +1200

I have an odd problem in that I won't pirate TV programs. There are things I will pirate especially as for books when local distributers appear to be the ones restricting sale to NZ. Note I try very hard to pay the author but sometimes it's very difficult.

But for…

Paul Webber

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:42:24 +1200

Could they make the $100m they earn from New Zealand rights annually by dealing with individuals? It’s not actually clear they would.

Possibly not. But will the rights be worth $100m next year if a significant portion of the market is bypassing the local distributor, with or without Fyx?

Bart Janssen

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:40:57 +1200

until we can buy them on DVD

Snap. Also I love the resolution of Blu-ray so I'd much rather wait for the Blu-Ray and watch in high def with no ad breaks – except if we need more wine.

merc

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:30:11 +1200

Ah stuff it let's just cut out the middle persons and give them a 100 million tax break, some free cgi and cut-rate extras.../it's a mashup/
Joyce and Key could stitch this deal together in a casino minute, using the F.B.I. to enforce it.

Tom Semmens

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:29:59 +1200

The thing coming through from TV sources today is that it’s probably the overseas producers who’ve complained about Fyx.

Clearly not TVNZ or Sky then who officially complained. They probably shopped Fyx to the filth though.

Russell Brown

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:24:45 +1200

The thing coming through from TV sources today is that it's probably the overseas producers who've complained about Fyx. The current distribution system provides them with big chunks of cash, up front, from a small number of rights-buying customers (i.e.: domestic broadcasters).

Could they make the $100m they earn from…

Shaun Lott

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:22:23 +1200

I think this summarises the issue

Kumara Republic

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:14:11 +1200

I guess if Fyx can become the Ihug of NZ broadband, that's a consolation prize enough.

Still, I'm for anything that boots out the middleman in the media sector. Who knows how Megabox would have turned out...

Tom Semmens

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:11:43 +1200

. SoHo airs new episodes a week after the USA, yet nearly everyone I know who watches the show is just downloading it because a) they can’t be bothered waiting a week, or b) they can’t be bothered waiting for SoHo.

But I think habit has something to do with…

Paul Webber

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:07:53 +1200

I agree with much of what Tom says. But I don’t blame Sky for putting all its rugby content behind a paywall at high prices – that’s their business model. I put more blame on the short-sightedness of the NZRFU for banishing us to a life of pay TV nocturnal…

Russell Brown

Tue, 15 May 2012 12:20:18 +1200

Although I’m not a lawyer so I don’t understand exactly what section 2 and 3 mean (especially the blanket exclusion of photographs).

We lean fairly heavily on the fair dealing provision at Media7, but we are a media review show.

In Jackson's case, his pics were picked up and used…

Sacha

Tue, 15 May 2012 12:10:25 +1200

I keenly await the arrival of a rugby mad Russian

there's a short film in there somewhere

Simon Lyall

Tue, 15 May 2012 12:09:05 +1200

Well I'm sure the news media will be quick to point out that the Copyright act explicitly allows them to copy certain works for "fair dealing":

Criticism, review, and news reporting

(1) Fair dealing with a work for the purposes of criticism or review, of that or another work or…

cphilpott

Tue, 15 May 2012 12:05:33 +1200

It's in the interests of content companies to sort this out. If HBO made HBO Go available without a cable subscription anywhere in the world I'd sign up tomorrow

I'd like to think I would too – but would making HBO Go available internationally actually slow down piracy? People are…

Nick Melchior

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:48:36 +1200

The Gordian knot is a good metaphor here because millions of people are simply slicing through it. So it may be complicated but the only option is to provide legal alternatives because the current ones aren't working.

For example: I work for a publishing company that, by and large, signs…

Deborah

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:48:07 +1200

If we could get only the Sky channels we wanted, we would be buying Soho and rugby / sports, and maybe one or two other things. It would be great to be able to pay for just the channels we want. Because we can't, we don't get Sky at all,…

Tom Semmens

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:31:14 +1200

The only reason I keenly await the arrival of a rugby mad Russian is I believe that that (along with the Rapture) is more likely to occur in my lifetime than any of our neo-liberal elite imposing any sort of broadcasting regulation on Sky.

Russell Brown

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:25:24 +1200

so once I find someone in Russia who likes Super 15 and All Black rugby enough to stream it live (or with a short delay, I am not fussed) reliably, I will take great pleasure in phoning Sky and telling they can shove their monopoly right up their arses.

The…

Tom Semmens

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:17:22 +1200

And, increasingly, to watch those shows, it’s necessary to pay Sky TV a lot of money (for things you may not wish to buy) to watch them on Soho.

My view is Sky is extremely vulnerable to competition because of the way they treat their customers. Sky are generally regarded…

Public Address

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:17:22 +1200

Discussion from blog post.