I much prefer to see Tuhoe as characterised by Tuhoe.com, the wireless broadband network being built by the Tuhoe Education Authority (with the help of goverment agencies and Waikato Uni) where Telecom was never going to bother. It's Tuhoe owned and controlled and it's a visionary project.

Well, yes... I…

So the Urewera 17 – gets conflated with Tuhoe, and suddenly Tame Iti, JL and Save Our Snails are treated as…

... searched children at gunpoint!

I did take exception at what seemed to me your willingness to escalate rumours in a fairly dangerous way: so an alleged "intimate search" became a confirmed "cavity search".

We saw the same thing with the supposed busload of traumatised schoolchildren that was boarded and searched by armed officers. It…

If one of them were to sue the other....

Ouch... Thankfully (or not, depending on your POV) it looks like her attitude is 'who give a shit what this arse says about me anymore, I've got a life to get on with', and surely someone has to sit him down…

It was always going to be hard to prove historical claims beyond doubt.

Stephen Price makes an intriguing point about this on his media law blog: the cases heard were criminal trials and therefore the standard of proof was beyond reasonable doubt.

Nicholas has called Rickards a rapist in her…

This is what Bomber…

Cognitive dissonance

When looking at argument it is worth bearing in mind a handful of things that are likely to shape what has been and is being said:

i) Memory is constructive – that is to say when we cannot remember we will try and fill in…

I think any final wash-up is going to show that the scale and nature of the police action on October 15 was excessive given the evidence to hand (which was still not trivial), and *perhaps* find some examples of unacceptable conduct towards individuals.

This is genuinely heartening to me. The…

Will Todd Blackadder and Grizz Wylie really be turning up to Lancaster Park wearing the Green and Gold, waving inflatable wallabies?

So are you saying that TB was threatening to boycott future All Black games? Or is it just an easy beatup to tar him with the same brush as…

I can see that sometimes, a cause/group needs to…

Although I will offer this observation....

If you are an activist, and you want the public to take your issue seriously, accusing everyone that doesnt…

Fletcher B – do you have other possibilities to throw in – I actually think it is not only interesting but important. Always interested in social psychology...

you are considering the possibility that the police action was a bit excessive and that there might be valid complaints

I read all those threads (because I am a nutbar, obviously), and as someone with no real horse in the race, I felt that a significant number of people posting…

But I thought her post was fairly clearly comparing, not the substance or degree of alleged crimes/incidents.... (alleged by the police or the people detained) but was comparing the…

do you think that if anyone in Ruatoki wants to lay a complaint with the IPCA, they can do so with a certain degree of confidence?

Yes I do, and I think it is in process.

I think any final wash-up is going to show that the scale and nature…

Your comparison is based upon the test of 'proven in court

No, my comparison is intended to demonstrate that there is a real difference between "proven in court" and "proven in public opinion" with a view to working out how we come to the latter.

Are you seriously comparing the…

But the IPCA report indicates that as many 60 women were spoken to by Operation Austin.

Indeed – and Justice Goddard make it pretty clear (at least from the media reports I've seen) that those women were treated with tact and sensitivity — and their identities carefully protected — while…

But…

Sorry, but I've got to agree with RB here – WTF? Rickards may have been acquitted on a series of specific charges, but surely most of us heard too much evidence of a pretty vile pattern of long-term abuse and exploitation that was hard to dismiss as the twisted…

Are you seriously comparing the degree…

Police misconduct

They weren't going to be able to get him on misconduct for what he did with LN. There's a statute of limitations on police misconduct of two years from when the NZ Police become aware of the allegations. Senior police were aware of rumours about this stuff years…

The shiny new Independent Police Conduct Authority does not agree with Clint Rickards about Operation Austin. ....... That will hopefully shut the fucker up.

Think again – just more proof that the racist Police establishment deals to the uppity brown boy yet again.

Nah mate, it's that fricken lesbian cabale at…

But the explicit rejection of all 15 of his complaints and the emphatic vindication of the investigation by an independent authority pretty much removes any case he has to present to the public.

Think again – just more prof that the racist Police establishment deals to the uppity brown boy…

That will hopefully shut the fucker up.

Flocks of pigs in Point Chev today, Russell?

Oh, I don't expect his misguided sense of grievance to disappear any time soon.

But the explicit rejection of all 15 of his complaints and the emphatic vindication of the investigation by an independent authority…

That will hopefully shut the fucker up.

Flocks of pigs in Point Chev today, Russell?

Will Todd Blackadder and Grizz Wylie really be turning up to Lancaster Park wearing the Green and Gold, waving inflatable wallabies?

There's a Pulp Sport item in that ...

I heard Cantabrians today threatening to boycott AB games. Secede already or just grow up! It's a game, as we seem to be reminding everybody recently.

As the dropkicks were discussing last evening, we really need to hold these people to their word.

Will Todd Blackadder and Grizz Wylie really…

Indeed, its report is full of praise for the operation's conduct and recommends that its "groundbreaking" practices for dealing with victims should be incorporated into the Police Best Practice Manual.

That will hopefully shut…

Maybe you should actually listen to the interviews before commenting?

I did listen to the Rickard interview -that exchange must have been drowned out by the sound of me banging my head against the computer desk in a vain attempt to make the pain stop.

So, I made the right decision to turn the radio to Concert FM as soon as Sean began to introduce Big Willie?

Wrong Decision.

You missed the coverage of the Led Zep reunion. Plunket got enthused, Geoff got bemused (said after prompting he'd heard of Stairway to Heaven, but couldn't…

Rciketts just has this amazing ability to astound me; even after all this time.

And did Willie ask the obvious follow up: 'And how much did our tax-paying listeners ultimately dish out to you during your years of suspension on full pay; and how much were you paid to just go away?"

O, silly me – of course he didn't.

Actually, he did ask. Rickards…

It would appear there’s not much money in his side of the story…

LOL... And did Willie ask the obvious follow up: 'And how much did our tax-paying listeners ultimately dish out to you during your years of suspension on full pay; and how much were you paid to just…

Willie Jackson said on Morning Report this morning that there were plenty of young men out there who've done bad things – should they be therefore barred from higher office?

So, I made the right decision to turn the radio to Concert FM as soon as Sean began to introduce…

It would appear there’s not much money in his side of the story…

Willie Jackson said on Morning Report this morning that there were plenty of young men out there who've done bad things – should they be therefore barred from higher office? I think he assumed the answer was "no".

I'm in favour of that in principle. But Rickards seems to have…

Where are the people standing up and saying, no, this isn't a race issue; actually this is a gender issue.

On Te Kaea, last night. It's online here, with subtitles. The story's about halfway through.

Willie Jackson said on Morning Report this morning that there were plenty of young men…

I believe the phrase is "love the sinner not the sin".

That might be some sort of justification for the supprt Rickards has got from some quarters if those supporters weren't so keen on trivialising the sin that occured and if Rickards had shown the slightest humility or sense of…

Without knowing what was said to Richards. I believe the phrase is "love the sinner not the sin".
To give support to someone isn't to condone their action.

Well, it might be a moot point because it sure looks like both Mahuta and Horomia have [[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10481530|denied doing any such thing to…

I believe the phrase is "love the sinner not the sin".

Oh, I thought that phrase only applied to homosexuals.
So who's loving William Bell right now?

Henry Represented Canterbury in 1st class Cricket (He never played Rugby at this level – wasn't good enuf)
http://www.csnz.co.nz/default,4752,graham_henry.sm

Take a moment to think there may be a few more issues at play as the ignorant commentators bash…

It's our game and we're allowed to be mad Grecians about it.

The tone of the campaign has made it hard to have a rational discussion about the bill's shortcomings.

I think it's possible to have a rational discussion about it, but it's a very boring job.

If it actually was a bill about stopping anyone saying anything I'd be getting warmed…

Willie Jackson has not one radio station to broadcast his drivel but TWO!! And one taxpayer funded. The man is taking the piss and I hope Mediawatch is indeed keeping watch. A broadcaster must at least have a semblance of an…

Where are the people standing up and saying, no, this isn't a race issue; actually this is a gender issue.

If Louise N and the other female…

"Thou doth protest too much."

You can blame the French infringing for countering the forward driving, but the backs issues were all self-inflicted.

Bart – completely agree about the backline

Well, that was the point of the French infringing. Slow the ball at the breakdown, stand off side, etc etc in the absolute certainty that the ref is not going to ping you then off course our backs are going to look flat…

Except the United Kingdom's experience with anonymous donations, which Craig mentioned the other day.

Mentioned in the context of respectfully suggesting Russel Norman might want to rethink issuing press releases holding up the United Kingdom as a paragon of keeping funny money out of politics and a place where "free…

I think so too. It bugs me that it's so un-PC to note that this was an unprecedented game.

If you don't count the test a few months earlier in Melbourne...

Bart's right re the backs. If the game had gone on for another 20 minutes we would still not…

Transcript: John Key on the TV One Breakfast show. 3 October 2007

PRESENTER: Alright, very quickly, there was a lot of talk over the previous week about SOEs...

KEY: Yeah and I think look,…

As you say, the All Blacks have played better. But there simply has never been a test half where one side has been so overwhelmingly dominant in all measures and yet somehow failed to procure a single penalty.

I'm sorry but I watched that game too. Yes our forwards played…

The parochial peak was struck on Morning Report today when both Fergie McCormick and Alex Wyllie appeared to say they would support a Wallabies side coached by Deans over an All Black team. Good grief.

I heard that as well (in case you didn't hear it, that other towering intellectual,…

s it really the case that the previous four coaches of the All Blacks were losers who needed to "take responsibility" by resigning or being fired?

Not at all. I have no real problem with a coach trying something new and having it fail. I like to see our sportsfolk…

The parochial peak was struck on Morning Report today when both Fergie McCormick and Alex Wyllie appeared to say they would support a Wallabies side coached by Deans over an All Black team. Good grief.

I heard that as well (in case you didn't hear it, that other towering intellectual,…

I'm not sure that I have read what Trotter said in August, so I can't comment on it. However, for lack of a better case in point:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth

Yup, really swung my vote last time out – you know, in the country where I'm actually a citizen and registered voter.…

I'm not sure that I have read what Trotter said in August, so I can't comment on it. However, for lack of a better case in point:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth

Yup, really swung my vote last time out – you know, in the country where I'm actually a citizen and registered voter.…

*Exception to that rule being Ricky Herbert. That’s soccer (sometimes called football)

Ah, reminds me of a classic Private Eye cover after Glenn Hoddle got sacked following this Prince Philip-ish blurt: "I've nothing against the disabled. I've picked eleven of them to play for England."

Ouch... I don't think local…

It is a very long list….

But if you’re at a Xmas / New year party with a lot of sports types you could do worse than slag off any national coach at the moment*

*Exception to that rule being Ricky Herbert. That’s soccer (sometimes called football)

It's cricket season dammit!

Being a total sports retard, who do I hate with demented passion now? I am your willing apprentice, Sporty Sith. :)

Craig, that isn't exactly what Trotter's piece said.

Trotter's August 27 2006 piece had this quote:

Social peace for a paltry half-million dollars? Strikes me as the most courageous and forgiveable kind of corruption.

And also this:

[If National/Brash had won] New Zealand would now be experiencing civil strife on…

Don, you’re right to point out that Blues team was a Fitz (and ZZ) led team. Once…

And to be fair, his Lions tour of Australia was a very close one.

Heh. As was a certain RWC quarterfinal.

Close ain't good enough!

So I'll keep my opinions about coaches in NZ general.

I don't mind sticking with losing coaches. All coaches lose sometimes.

BUT

Really good coaches can identify their own errors and really good coaches have the people skills and management skills necessary to admit when a…

Noizy, I challenge you to find examples from Henry’s past (Blues, Wales, Lions) where he has learnt from past mistakes..

Well, I defy anyone to learn anything from Wales. But as for the other stuff...

When Henry (& Fitzy) were in charge of the Blues they were better than the ABs,…

Craig, that isn't exactly what Trotter's piece said.

WH, I think I've characterized Trotter's Sunday Star Times column of August 27 2006 perfectly accurately. I don't have a link, as it seems to have vanished behind Stuff's paid subscription firewall, but if any one can point me to the text…

Laporte was coach in 03 and 07; and got madder as time went on..

Dwyer was successful in 91; his side had deteriorated by the time he took them to a ¼ final exit in 95.

And of course Hart and Wylie were involved in 87, before presiding over…

It seemed to me the one question that might actually make him sit up and acknowledge how horrible the behaviour of him and his mates was.

Ten out of ten for optimism and seasonal good will, Russell, but I've seen little evidence that anything is ever going to shake Rickards…

And folks – you can point at Lindsay Perigo, and I can post a link to Chris Trotter's various freak outs on the subject the Sunday Star Times . I'd call it a draw myself, and what a squalid game it is.

Who knows Craig, but it sounds like a…

...but the other 5 winning coaches had not previously failed; that is a totally spurious argument.

Not an argument – just an observation. It *is* possible to lose one world cup with one coach, and yet still win it with the same.

As is the argument that changing coaches every…

"Phil Kitchens (sic) wouldn't have a bias, because he's not Louise's friend, is he?" Jackson asked ironically as he introduced the interview.

"Louise is a rock star and Clint Rickards is the scum of the earth according to mainstream media," he continued, later declaring "Operation Austin, they seemed to be…

True the coach of the 2003 RWC winning side had failed in 99, but the other 5 winning coaches had not previously failed; that is a totally spurious argument.

I think it would have been very difficult for Sir Brian Lochore to previously fail, given that he won the first…

Clint Rickards should have leave his family out of it. But so should you, RB. Clint's children have no choice about who their father is so back off of them please.

Rickards has repeatedly mentioned his children (and been photographed with his daughter) at the same time as he's denigrated…

But so should you, RB.

i think you miss understand RB's point – which was a comment on how Rickards would react as a father, it's not a comment or reflection on his children.

...a more than usually toxic example of the MSM's 'Te Borg' approach to reporting Maori,

yes, I was quite prepared to take exception to the Herald article's heading but after reading the artilce i couldn't get all that worked up by the implied generalisation.

I was thinking that a slight…

I'd call it a draw myself, and what a squalid game it is.

Would you? You always seem to quote hysteria where its existence is somewhat dubious. The BRT and EBs and Maxim etc. *did* spend copious amounts off money on electioneering in ways that were never very transparent.

In…

And whoever takes over from him, hang him as well!

with the herald reporting Maori leaders: Why we still back Rickards it's not hard to think that there's something just a bit wrong with many of the louder voices claiming to represent Maori.

I spent a couple of hours trying to draft a letter to The Herald expressing my irritation…

Are you talking about the EFB, or the rugby coach thing?

Applicable to both, I'd say. Somehow, it is hard to feel that torn up on behalf of Robbie Deans – who, I'm sure, is going to have a long and fabulously successful career wherever he ends up. If the…

I can't help but compare what Sharples is saying about Rickards with what he had to say about…

or can we just split the difference, and agree that there's a lot of hysterical fucktards on all sides who aren't adding any value to the debate?

Are you talking about the EFB, or the rugby coach thing?

He just comes across as yet another man with lots of money and a raging sense of entitlement, and that gives me the creeps.

And some of the more, shall we say, excitable proponents of the Bill come across as yet more wingnuts with a raging sense of paranoia who…

As is the argument that changing coaches every 4 years hasn’t worked before, so why not do something different??

If that’s…

why should an editor have to defend something he didn't write – and you can bet he will not just be asked why he allowed those editorials, but he would be asked about the content as well.

Um, because that's part of the job description when you get to sit…

Some of the hysteria coming out of Chch has been ridiculous, but lets face it, the reappointment of Henry has been pretty shabby...

Yes, like the article you refer to, I feel both jaded and apathetic towards the 2008 rugby season. Super 14? Maybe later...

In terms of the NZRFU,…

In a way the decision to stick with Henry shows a certain maturity about the NZRFU board.

Exactly! But one of the ongoing themes from Deaker's callers was 'how are we ever going to win the cup if we don't get rid of a loser like Henry!'

Did getting rid…

Not so much changing the goalposts as hiding them

They have a bee in their bonnets – that is clear to all rational readers.

I think they're basically flexing their muscles. They want to see to what extent…

In a way the decision to stick with Henry shows a certain maturity about the NZRFU board.

So what are we to make of Herald editor Tim Murphy's refusal to talk to Colin Peacock of Mediawatch for the programme's report on the paper's campaign against the Electoral Finance Bill?

About as much as the Justice Minister canceling a scheduled interview with Audrey Young when the paper's campaign…

Interesting to hear that Media watch stated that people outsdide Auckland havent had an opportunity to read the NZ Heralds front page editorials
True, but then we tend to read our local papers for news.
So yeah they may have over stated it, but they do kinda have a point.…

To be honest, I think Russel Norman would be better advised to hire someone who can actually write instead of screaming 'censorship' in the most fatuous and trivial way imaginable. Seriously, I couldn't imagine Rod Donald letting anything that piss poor go out over his signature to a student…

Interesting to hear that Media watch stated that people outsdide Auckland havent had an opportunity to read the NZ Heralds front page editorials. This is crap. Anyone with an Intenet connection or who can walk…

Typical of The Herald, I guess.

So what are we to make of Herald editor Tim Murphy's refusal to talk to Colin Peacock of Mediawatch for the programme's report on the paper's campaign against the Electoral Finance Bill?

I assume the Heralds editorials on this subject were written by Audrey Young; its possible that Murphy doesn't…

Jackson is just a blowhard – never really seen what his point is.

And rickards -…

Very poor form.

And this from a newspaper that printed a death threat towards Tim Barnett.