Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Democracy Night

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  • Christopher Nimmo, in reply to Sacha,

    in part two 46.66 per cent supported FPP as the most preferred alternative.

    Bit misleading, given 748,000 informal votes!

    Wellington • Since May 2009 • 97 posts Report Reply

  • Clint Fern,

    Of the other two confirmed Govt parties, ACT got less votes than Mana dropping from 85,496 to 23.889 and the Peter Dunne Party got pretty much the same as the Bill and Ben Party did last time - 13,443 to 13,016 which would be a joke if he hadn't been given so much by Key.

    Great that MMP is retained, needs to be changed to stop the Key/Banks/Dunne behaviour of this time round though - any solutions?

    Nelson • Since Jul 2010 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Christopher Nimmo,

    Bit misleading, given 748,000 informal votes!

    Quite. Voters managed to find a 'no confidence' option

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • HenryB,

    National received 5,240 more votes than in 2008
    National+ACT+UF received 63,421 votes less than in 2008.

    Labour received 171,944 less votes than in 2008
    Labour+Greens+NZF received 40,000 votes less than in 2008.

    Palmerston North • Since Sep 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sacha,

    Quite. Voters managed to find a 'no confidence' option

    Most people I've spoken to who voted this way did so because they wanted MMP and it wasn't one of the options. It did rather annoy me how bloody minded these people were, given that there was a small chance that the system could have bloody well changed back to FPP. There were 3 other better systems, although, yes, none as good as MMP, IMHO. Essentially, they were too lazy to think about it.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Clint Fern,

    Great that MMP is retained, needs to be changed to stop the Key/Banks/Dunne behaviour of this time round though - any solutions?

    There's a few solutions, although an obvious one even without reform is for the left to simply do the same damned thing. Endorse an ex-Labour candidate in a new party, let's call it the "Center Left Party", advising Labour voters to split. With a few of these in the Labour strongholds, Epsom is neutralized.

    I'd rather this didn't happen, because it is ridiculous and would cause overhangs, but if ACT is going to continue playing this game with National...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Christopher Nimmo,

    Or we could say that it's not a problem. Both parties got enough votes to merit a seat.

    Wellington • Since May 2009 • 97 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker, in reply to Christopher Nimmo,

    not sure what you mean by this. United Future were nowhere near getting a list seat even if there were no threshold.

    UF: 13,443 party votes

    total party votes counted: 2,257,336

    divide that by 121 to get: 18,655

    Act got exactly what they deserved this time, from a proportionality point of view.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 646 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker,

    no one got the electorate seat exemption from the 5% threshold this time. that exemption should be chucked out. the threshold should be halved to 2.5% imho.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 646 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Grevers, in reply to HenryB,

    Just after the election Key said, I think, that under an FPP system, National would have got 65 seats and labour 35.

    If we had stuck with FPP in 1996, the formula which determines the number of electorates (based on a South Island quota) would have meant more than 130 MPs by now. Which is why it annoys me so that for some people their sole motive for voting against MMP is that we have “too many MPs”.

    New Plymouth • Since Jul 2011 • 143 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Richard Grevers,

    we have “too many MPs”

    another measure of the right's success in pushing over many years the notion that government is a problem

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    I am really pleased about the margin of victory for Option 1, however you play it, it is solid, thumping even, support for MMP

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1027 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Haere mai na MOJO!

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Richard Grevers,

    If we had stuck with FPP in 1996, the formula which determines the number of electorates (based on a South Island quota) would have meant more than 130 MPs by now

    Not nearly that many. More than the 99 we had, certainly, but under 120.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sacha,

    we have “too many MPs”

    another measure of the right’s success in pushing over many years the notion that government is a problem

    Especially droll when coupled with "catch up with Australia", the land of multiple multi-level parliaments.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • HenryB, in reply to Ben Austin,

    Yes. In 1993 the vote for MMP was 54%.

    Palmerston North • Since Sep 2008 • 106 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    the land of multiple multi-level parliaments

    and tripartite wage bargaining

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I imagine it depends whether you're talking about child support for otherwise working parents or the DPB - they are different things, right?

    The government doesn't recover anything when its a working parent, only when it's on the DPB.

    divide that by 121 to get: 18,655

    You don't divide each list seat evenly. The Sainte Laguë method means that the first list seat is much easier to get than that. The first one kicks in at about 0.6% of the vote, the second at about 1.4%?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    0.6% of the total vote counted would have been 13,544.
    UF got 13,443 party votes.

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 646 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    And Mana.... soooo close to getting Annette Sykes into parliament. I did want to see that!

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2120 posts Report Reply

  • Islander, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Prediction: next election Mana will absorb the Maori party and we will have a true Maori-responsive labour-oriented(that is, working people & family oriented) party to vote for.

    Hey, I was right with my *2 surprises from the south* eh?

    Tho' I must admit to being totalled by the abstaining phuqing voters - I never thought ANZers would do that...

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Graeme Edgeler, in reply to Kyle Matthews,

    The first one kicks in at about 0.6% of the vote, the second at about 1.4%?

    The first one kicks in at about 0.41%, second at about 1.21% (depending on the size of the wasted vote).

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3215 posts Report Reply

  • stephen walker, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    so with no threshold ALCP would have got one seat?

    nagano • Since Nov 2006 • 646 posts Report Reply

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