And now as the fundy excesses are being realised my old pool,& waterpolo team at Sockburn are gone and the under utilised one in St…

It seems their govts are shedding and shredding human rights and freedoms at a rate not seen since the last world war.

........... if you dont mind I'll just keep skipping my census

Compulsion to fill in a census seems to me like a marker on the road to compulsion to carry identity papers etc.

Well, it's a heckuva long road, they've been compulsory in Britain for the last 160 plus years and even longer in the US.

If you also have one of…

could you please tell me what the frig anyone's religion – or lack thereof – has to do with public policy? Serious question

Another possibility is using it to predict things like requirements for STD clinics and young parent help – given that many Evangelical Christians are less likely to…

Just as a matter of interest, could you please tell me what the frig anyone's religion – or lack thereof – has to do with public policy? Serious question, serious answers appreciated because I'm open to being convinced not to object to state next time around.

Public policy is only…

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/polls/2005/asbo.shtml

Just as a matter of interest, could you please tell me what the frig anyone's religion – or lack thereof – has to do with public policy?

Well, you might argue, for instance, that next census, when Christianity of any ilk falls below 50%, having prayer in parliament is no…

Were those massacres when Wolfowitz was ambassaor to Indonesia?

No, they were in the post coup period 1965-66. Exact numbers are hard to come by but the figure ranges between 500,000 to 1,000,000. The best evidence is that is was a faux coup orchestrated by those that then crushed said…

could you please tell me what the frig anyone's religion – or lack thereof – has to do with public policy? Serious question

It's a good question too. I can't think of one off the top of my head. (To be honest Craig you picked the one question I wouldn't…

Save me from the centralised government actually caring what New Zealand really looks like before forging ahead with policy!!

Just as a matter of interest, could you please tell me what the frig anyone's religion – or lack thereof – has to do with public policy? Serious question, serious answers…

In the last 20+ years I've filled out 2 census and there was some good fiction in those

What the hell do you people have against the census!?!

Oh, no the gubnament might know my pay range!!!
Oooooo they might have an indication of the ethnic profile of my meshblock!!!…

Were those massacres when Wolfowitz was ambassaor to Indonesia?

Every topic he gets into sparks rabid debate and posts tend to exceed the hundred mark fairly quickly...

You cunning bastard Brown...

However, with talk of introducing national identity cards (with the eventual goal of not allowing anyone to get a passport without one) and transport tracking (for the purposes of reducing carbon emissions), the UK government starts looking creepier by the month.

Don't forget the CCTV cameras and the spy drones.

You are also entitled to think that the UK Labour Party is "creepy" and "fascistic", for all that helps to advance your case.

I don't think the ASBO is a particularly enlightened legislation, but didn't really think much of it. However, with talk of introducing national identity cards (with the…

There's already plenty of ways of dealing with nuisances without undermining the Bill of Rights.

And there's my objection to importing one of the Blair Government's more dopey ideas in a nutshell. And here's something else to think about: I'm chronically irritated by most of the human race most of…

I'll refrain from the obvious example of the Nuremburg laws, but one may consider the case of stoning gays to death in Iran because, hey, it's properly enacted legislation in a democracy!

I've always thought exaggeration should be a crime. Rest assured that if I was in charge I would…

If you dont want to fill one out its quite simple.

You tell the person dropping of the forms an incorrect (lower) number of people who reside at the dwelling than is true.

In the last 20+ years I've filled out 2 census and there was some…

There's an awful lot of properly enacted legislation in this world.

Quite. I'll refrain from the obvious example of the Nuremburg laws, but one may consider the case of stoning gays to death in Iran because, hey, it's properly enacted legislation in a democracy!

That is not very nice, rodgerd.

Nicer than your desire to send people to prison for irritating you.

When the court order can be as broad as don't use any doorbells in city limits, or don't enter any building taller than 3 stories, then no, I don't think that the imposition of criminal penalties is warranted.

Criminal…

. . . look how well Chile has done on the path Pinochet put it on . . .

And hasn't America gone ahead since Bin Laden jolted it out of its pre-9/ll complacency.
Once you've subscribed to the acceptable-collateral can't-make-an-omelette-without-breaking-eggs line, no analogy is too sick.

You obviously assume you don't irritate anyone else, much, I assume, as other backers of this creepy, fascistic legislation.

That is not very nice, rodgerd.

If you don't believe that anti-social behaviour is a proper target of regulation, that is your right. If you don't believe that breaching a Court…

This doesn't apply to NZ though, so I…

All I'm asking is that we don't 'move on' from the suffering those two defended and encouraged.

Good on you. I ever-so-humbly submit that you make your point very effectively when it isn't couched in a tone of towering moral superiority.

My sympathies are not with those who make a habit of making life unpleasant for others. There is only so much irritation people can reasonably be asked to bear.

So the litmus test of whether I belong in jail or not is whether I irritate you?

You obviously assume you…

My sympathies are not with those who make a habit of making life unpleasant for others.

Neither are mine. However, I care about civil liberty even more. ASBOs have a fundamentally arbitrary element, coupled with a neither-fish-nor-fowl legal character, and I think that makes them ripe for abuse.

That's for them and their conscience.

Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree and I'll praise you for your generosity in assuming Adams and Paisley have anything that could be mistaken for a conscience. I've seen little evidence of it.

They may have been a part…

The second part of the test – whether an ASBO is necessary to prevent further harm – is on the civil standard.

This is simply because its not possible to prove what will happen in the future beyond a reasonable doubt. ASBO's arise from a judicial process, not an exercise…

The second part of the test – whether an ASBO is necessary to prevent further harm – is on the civil standard.

As to the breaching part, while I accept that it is treated as a crime, I am still bothered by the ability…

All the justified cases in the world won't convince me

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that to obtain an ASBO the target must be shown, on the criminal standard, to have engaged in behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress. This is despite the fact…

Adams and Paisley should spend the rest of their lives on their knees, thanking God they're not being held in a cell awaiting their trials for crimes against humanity.

That's for them and their conscience. I'm no fan of either but I think they played a big role in bringing…

I'd suggest that their current non-religious style of atonement is infinitely more productive.

Joe: Is every day when Ireland isn't defaced by sectarian murder, torture and harassment a very good one indeed? Of course.

Then again it would have been 'infinitely more productive' if people like Adams and Paisley hadn't…

As ASBO's are made by civil courts, they are made on the civil standard of proof.

Uh, yes. That is exactly right, and exactly the problem: criminal sanctions applied without the same standard of proof normally required.

All the justified cases in the world won't convince me that beyond reasonable…

Adams and Paisley should spend the rest of their lives on their knees, thanking God they're not being held in a cell awaiting their trials for crimes against humanity.

Decadent and depraved, eh? Must be Brian Tamaki talk-like-a-pantomime-dame week.
Rather than having Gerry & Ian spend their remaining years in permanent…

It's like with Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley. They were both aligned with very unsavory elements but that doesn't mean that what they are doing now should be continually held to ransom because of their past.

Oh, fuck that Neil – that is a truly decadent and depraved bit of…

http://society.guardian.co.uk/crimeandpunishment/comment/0,,1664715,00.html

In Essex, a 38-year-old woman was banned from abusing the emergency services, after she called 999 38 times in nine months.

The man was also banned from using doorbells or phoning households without…

And unlike King, I take the Bill of Rights Act seriously.

I don't believe that our law should deny those affected by persistent anti-social behaviour an effective means of redress. As Tony Blair once said, the rights of law abiding citizens should come first. Our Bill of Rights need not…

1. To obtain the withheld data from the non-respondent.
2. To deter future non-respondents.

The first doesn't really make sense; as I read the Statistics Act (1975), people are only required…

As far as bad reporting and bad press go?…

Of course it was lie, but he wasn't to know that, and besides ... so much for being confidential! I haven't filled one out since.

This is where your privacy risk lies with a New Zealand census; at the petty, rather than the institutional, level.

The "lie" I had made was that I said in the employment section that I was a prostitute, earning $40k a year.

I would have thought your school mate would have given you the benefit of the doubt....$39 400 is pretty close ;op

It could be argued that he hardly needs to, given that persons unknown do quite a good job of killing journalists who venture on banned subjects.

And those persons unknown include left wing guerillas not just right wing militias. I haven't seen any evidence that Uribe is responsible for any…

Last century (the last time I filled one out, you'll see why shortly) the Census Person came to my door to drop off the forms. Turned out it was a guy I went to school with. We had a chuckle about old times, he gave me…

I never have, and never will, answer any questions about my ethnicity

I'm with you Craig. I usually answer that question with Homo sapiens sapiens

oh, you mean like the Contras and the Bush / Noreiga connection.

Snap! That caller stole my thunder. There's nothing that hasn't been done in modern times that wasn't lifted out of the US's Vietnam Playbook. (excuse the tripledouble negative) It was the US that tried to have Chavez ousted…

For reasons largely of cost, a number of European countries are moving towards a register-based approach; buttressed, in some cases, by sampling. (I could be wrong, but I can't see that any country is conducting the exercise solely through sample surveying.)
Register-based approaches require the state to keep and hold…

I guess Chavez really does follow his buddy Castro's lead. Payoffs from drug traffickers is presumed to be how Castro accumulated most of his $600 or $700 million fortune

oh, you mean like the Contras and the Bush / Noreiga connection.

I assume you have some solid evidence for the…

i'm sooooooooo disenchanted with TV3 news i'm about to give Channel One a go. now that's desperate.

Back on topic! I have to agree. I have a lot of respect for what Mark Jennings did with 3 News, but there's a nasty edge creeping into it lately.

Like he stacked the Supreme Court with his buddies to do his bidding, 3 of the 4 guys on the "independent" election board in Venezuela, are Chavez guys, who control the voting machines.

Um, yeah, what he said about irony ...

Paul, try and keep up will ya. "Some" of the folk who criticise Chavez's actions are and were big fans of Thatcher. These same people accuse others of "double standards"…

Apparently so. For one thing firing rubber bullets and teargas into peaceful demonstrations is wrong.

Angus, if that's your measure, then you're going to have a lot of countries on your shitlist. Including, only this month, the USA, where a peaceful march in LA (attended by families with children) against…

Free and fair elections? Not by the standards that we are used to.

But free and fair by American standards (sounds very much like whats been happening there recently).

Have you no sense of irony sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of irony?

Election fraud in Venezuela...

That's as bad as the stuff that goes on in USA elections !

This was about the recall election.

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200409080559

Like he stacked the Supreme Court with his buddies to do his bidding, 3 of the 4 guys on the "independent" election board in Venezuela, are Chavez guys, who control the voting machines.

Before the recent election employees in…

More from Stratfor

Venezuela is the main transit route for illegal drugs between Colombia and the European market, the White House director for drug control policy, John Walters, said May 8, calling on EU leaders to "use their influence" to persuade Venezuelan President…

Uribe was overwhelmingly reelected last year, so those in a position to judge him, in a free and fair election (unlike the elections in Venezuela) apparently think he is doing okay.

James, it might not suit your point, but I think the elections in Colombia were declared fit by the…

The new paramilitary arrests together with the wiretapping scandal are dealing Uribe a tough blow, as they further erode his image as a tough but upright leader determined to uphold the rule of law in Colombia. The fact that both occurred the…

It depends on whether or not Uribe is seriously committed to dealing with the right wing militias. But he doesn't appear to shutting down opposition media.

It could be argued that he hardly needs to, given that persons unknown do quite a good job of killing journalists who venture on…

Another simple point, "bedtime story" simple. If the closing of RCTV is such a minor deal, why have so many Venezuelans been out on the streets protesting for days? Says it all doesn't it?

Uribe, while no Saint, has done an amazing…

I have NOT posted a single word here in defense of Chavez. In fact I haven't even implied it.

I find it childish and silly to attempt to reduce politics to good guys/bad guys.

That's all.

As far as the census goes, I'm still waiting for jack-booted Stats Nazis to kick my door down because I never have, and never will, answer any questions about my ethnicity

But please, when answering ethnicity, do not put "mongrel" or "New Zealander" as it really really doesn't help. Try…

And if youbelieve that, you'll believe anything.

Apparently so. For one thing firing rubber bullets and teargas into peaceful demonstrations is wrong. Also that smashing the free press is wrong. That censuring debate is wrong. That these wrongs are so simple and as easy to understand that a child could…

I understand that this was by no means the full scope of Thatch's activities at the time. BBC footage from the Orgreave protests were seized intitially as "evidence" and later held under the official secrets act.

and that shown by the BBC at the time had added "riot" sound effects..it…

Uribe may have a murky past

and present...

A letter four weeks ago from HRW to Uribe...

Thames bid on two channels. The first was competitive (ie there were other bidders) and they lost. For the 2nd channel (Channel 3, I believe) they were the only bidder. Somehow, they still lost..

I understand that this was by no means the full scope of Thatch's activities at the…

That was the Thatcher governments…

Just pointing out that some who criticise his actions today are of the same ilk that tried to prevent Death on the Rock being screened. When that failed they set up a system that could remove the license of an independent station to broadcast.

¿Eh?

Let's make a syllogism

1.Thatcher…

The current allegations about connections to paramilitary groups are historical in nature – going back 20 years. At the time…

No Joe it was once complex, but now it is not. A complex situation can be solved peacefully through debate & democracy in an open forum.

Thanks for putting me straight on that, Angus. It's a concept I'd never been exposed to before. Breathtaking (And if youbelieve that, you'll believe anything).

Evidence please

Thames bid on two channels. The first was competitive (ie there were other bidders) and they lost. For the 2nd channel (Channel 3, I believe) they were the only bidder. Somehow, they still lost.

What does it have to do with Chavez? Just pointing out that some who…

If RCTV really supported the coup, then I am sure the government would have closed it down and imprisoned its directors for treason back then.

and,

That is an inference you have drawn, not a fact supported by evidence.

Speaking of requiring evidence and preferably not making inferences,…

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17432

And the report on Colombia:

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17418

Read them and tell me where you'd rather be a journalist (or, to put it another way, where journalists are more likely to be able to report frankly without being murdered).

As I said,…

Congress is rightly putting the brakes on the unconditional US support that Colombia has been getting from the Bush administration. The administration wants to rush into a free-trade deal with Colombia, even though that country has allegedly been using…

As for Cuba...I like their rum.

And their cigars.... thighs or not

Crap. The Government first tried to suppress the program and failed. Then they changed the rules for bidding for licenses and put in a closed system for bids in which the criteria for "wining were obtuse to say the least. Thames didn't stand a chance.

Evidence please, and try laying…

Vulunteer being the operative word. I'm job hunting at the moment, and I don't see either subject coming up in interviews, and I certainly won't be volunteering or answering any questions along those line. Not that I think any prudent employer would ask.

I might be wrong but the ethnicity…

The licensing process was in the hands of the Independent Broadcasting Authority, not the Government. This story is a media myth with no evidence to support it.

Crap. The Government first tried to suppress the program and failed. Then they changed the rules for bidding for licenses and put in…

"The…

As for censuses and registration of the populace, my advice, as someone who lived with all that for…

but there seems to be quite a lot of evidence that RCTV abetted the overthrow of a legitimately elected government.

I'm not an expert either but all that evidence suggests is that RCTV supported the anti-Chavez protests, not any violent coup.

Compare the allegations against RCTV with Chave's latest evidence…

I'm sitting with my father in law…

I also wonder if John Campbell is getting a proper nights kip at present? His script/segueways have been kinda wierd (self-acknowledged), and CampbellLive's agenda seems…

Add North Korea to list of left wing hell holes that the "human rights" and various leftist activists have completely ignore for decades, because it doesn't fit their preferred narrative of the world.

Um, really? Examples, please.

from stuff.co.nz (NZPA) yesterday:

Dr Darby said Taranaki had been estimated to have potential to generate 2000 billion barrels of oil, of which only 1000 billion barrels has so far been found.

and from today's herald (reuters):

Babies who are born heavy and grow fast have a 150…

And to read about how successful Uribe has been in Colombia, follow this link... Amazing stuff, Uribe has really turned Colombia around.

Yep, if you ignore the part about how right-wing death squads met at his farm to plan the assasinations of trade union leaders and other people they didn't…

"Rather than protest against this censorship and oppression, people of the left are rushing to find excuses for him. Nothing new there, of course: we have been ignoring Castro's oppression of his critics for years."

Way to go Paul, tell it like it is right at them!!

Add…

The sooner you accept that its function is emotional and its information content a happy accident, the more at peace you will be.

Delete the word happy and I'll buy that.

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6082

And really, please, Cuba's free healthcare, blah blah blah. If you want to get a flavor for what hospitals are really like for Cubans (as opposed…

The sooner you accept that…

pointing out, among other things, that the station urged the violent overthrow of an elected government in 2002),

And the evidence? And if this were true why wasn't the station shut down then rather than now?

Chavez has now turned his attention on another independent media voice. Of course Chavez…

Mrs. Thatcher effectively shut down the independent Thames TV by refusing to renew there license.

The licensing process was in the hands of the Independent Broadcasting Authority, not the Government. This story is a media myth with no evidence to support it.

In any case, what of it? In what…

our death squads are better than your death squads

Yes, the great charm of Venezuela is there are no death squads, just Chavez smashing the press & beating up peaceful protesters in the street – so marvellously free of ambiguity.

it is a very easy call as to who are the good guys . . .

Best you don't ruin a good bedtime story by following up on the BoingBoing link provided in Russell's piece.
Hint – informative, messy & complex.

There are no good sides in the Colombian conflict, just the most popular bad guy

Ahhhh...the good right wing death squads.....not the first time the USA has found those in Latin America....our death squads are better than your death squads

I don't like Chavez much either but I wonder why all the attention is given to him when Columbia's much nastier boss man enjoys the Bush arm around the shoulder.

Wonder no more.

There are no good sides in the Colombian conflict, just the most popular bad guy. But Chavez…

]]> Thu, 31 May 2007 11:45:45 +1200 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-contains-strong-language/?p=19539#post19539 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-contains-strong-language/?p=19539#post19539

Maybe it's just me, but Cuba looked pretty ruined before Castro got anywhere near it, unless you were a Mob stooge or part of the dictatorship's apparatus.

Indeed – Cuba ain't perfect but then you compare it with it's regional neighbours – Haiti, Honduras, the Dominican Republic – it starts…

and look how Castro has ruined Cuba.

Maybe it's just me, but Cuba looked pretty ruined before Castro got anywhere near it, unless you were a Mob stooge or part of the dictatorship's apparatus.

Of course Chavez and his apologists are alleging much the same sort of thing.

I don't like Chavez much either but I wonder why all the attention is given to him when Columbia's much nastier boss man enjoys the Bush arm around the shoulder.

I guess the answer is that…

Vulunteer being the operative word. I'm job hunting at the moment, and I don't see either subject coming up in interviews, and I certainly won't be volunteering or answering any questions along those line. Not that I think any prudent employer would ask.

I never have, and never will, answer any questions about my ethnicity (until they slip "mongrel" in there somewhere),

Tick other, write mongrel, there you are. Or write New Zealander, but I'm reliably informed by the PA commenterati the latter marks you as a racist white guy.

What would I do without you, Graeme?

Have no-one to ask this question either, that's for sure – finally saw the TV3 article on the Parliamentary Prayer (had a look after reading comments last night, but could only seem to find TV3's footage of the prayer itself).

A bit of…

How about a poll tax on church membership? Something like $1000 per member, the proceeds to be…

The US try to use sampling in the census as they have a huge problem with undercounting non-WASP-ish populations with traditional methods

Although, as the 10 year census is used to allocate house of Reps seat numbers to each state, it is extremely political so…

pointing out, among other things, that the station urged the violent overthrow of an elected government in 2002),

And the evidence? And if this were true why wasn't the station shut down then rather than now?

Chavez has now turned his attention on another independent media voice. Of course Chavez…

Every Five years.

Of course. What would I do without you, Graeme?