Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Chasing the Trans-Pacific Express

nzlemming

Fri, 08 Apr 2011 09:11:56 +1200

Thanks. I had come to that conclusion by experience, but wanted to confirm it. Took me a frustrating while to discover "padding" on my T-box

Paul Campbell

Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:40:17 +1200

Time I'm afraid – there are specs for embedded codes in streams for ad insertion that could be used – whether these get passed through to you though depends on the broadcaster – you'd think the instream EIT (or in-PMT, depends on the spec) current and next program change could…

nzlemming

Fri, 08 Apr 2011 07:09:27 +1200

Mind you with a little tuning you can do a good job of series recording based on epg data without series tagging provided the stations don’t mess with the epg data

Paul, n00b question, but is there some code is attached to the actual programme that alerts the PVR to…

Paul Campbell

Fri, 08 Apr 2011 07:04:06 +1200

Series recording has always been a bitch to implement – at one end of the spectrum someone sits in a cubicle and tags every program that goes into the EPG – at the other you do it yourself in the box.

The first depends on someone being paid minimum wage,…

Aidan

Thu, 07 Apr 2011 15:29:18 +1200

Knowing nothing about Oz I assume the same dynamic has kicked in there

Does seem to be the case. It could (rampant wild-arsed speculation alert) be because the TV landscape is an affiliate model, like the states, that has gradually got less and less distinct. It used to be that…

Paul Campbell

Thu, 07 Apr 2011 06:38:11 +1200

The US system (ATSC, which I have implemented), is similar in that lets each broadcaster put up their own mux on their own frequency – it's the way they already do analog TV. In that world having a central EPG on a single qam somewhere makes little sense because not…

Aidan

Tue, 05 Apr 2011 16:02:51 +1200

Paul, thanks for contributing. It is rare for internet discussions to include people who actually know what they are talking about.

In Aus I believe (could be wrong of course) that the EIT info for each broadcaster is localised to their own mux. I have to change to a channel…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 05 Apr 2011 06:56:38 +1200

DVB carries EPG information in two different places – current/next is inband (within a channel's stream, which is why you have to tune to get it on other channels) – while normal EITs (longer term EPG) is carried in one, well known, transponder/qam – again you have to tune -…

Aidan

Mon, 04 Apr 2011 14:09:59 +1200

This seems a problem:

Please note: Freeview Compatible = Limited EPG function[. I]nstead of showing all TV programmes in next 7 days, it only lists TV programmes in the next 3 hours.

Potentially. Depends what you want to use it for.

Maybe it wasn't clear when reading the comments in…

3410

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 19:18:08 +1300

Mighty ape have the AD185X for $90.

This seems a problem:

Please note: Freeview Compatible = Limited EPG function[. I]nstead of showing all TV programmes in next 7 days, it only lists TV programmes in the next 3 hours.

SteveH

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 17:42:50 +1300

can imagine that being really great, slower, for surfing/boarding, etc too

And it's often quite amusing with music videos.

Aidan

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 17:00:50 +1300

Mighty ape have the AD185X for $90. I'm really after the DVD/STB combo, to make it easier for me poor old mum.

You're right that the model numbers are confusing.

3410

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:00:45 +1300

UPDATE! Woo hoo! It looks like these cheapie AKAI boxes work if the country is set to France (must be a similar channel layout to NZ).

That's more like it! (though the AD181X now seems to have been replaced by the AD163X, the AD174X...)

Very interested to hear for sure…

Sacha

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:36:20 +1300

you can adjust playback speed

can imagine that being really great, slower, for surfing/boarding, etc too

SteveH

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:20:09 +1300

I tried Myth TV but settled for GBPVR in the end, much nicer UI and the EPG problem was easily overcome.
How long ago did you try MythTV? The UI has improved a fair bit in the last year or so. It still sucks for music though.

One of my…

Russell Brown

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 14:46:40 +1300

UPDATE! Woo hoo! It looks like these cheapie AKAI boxes work if the country is set to France (must be a similar channel layout to NZ).

Anyone had any experience with this?

No, but I do recall talk of the spec being similar. Interesting!

Aidan

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 14:17:26 +1300

Got the ad-skipping feature working too and as for transferring you can set it up to do that automatically, it can also transcode to other formats like DivX or Xvid.

Which goes to show how wrong-headed the Freeview restrictions are. The technically inclined can circumvent them, and it is people…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 12:56:14 +1300

you could just take that old PC you were going to recycle, add a couple of tuner cards and load up MythTV.

I tried Myth TV but settled for GBPVR in the end, much nicer UI and the EPG problem was easily overcome.
Only Freeview certified boxes have…

Russell Brown

Fri, 01 Apr 2011 12:53:53 +1300

And here's the show ...

http://tvnz.co.nz/media7/s6-e9-video-4094629

Matthew Poole

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:44:48 +1300

I had Jane as lecturer for a "Law and Globalisation" while at uni. She's a very engaging, learned speaker on the gamut of IP-related trade issues.

nzlemming

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:24:29 +1300

Excellent. I'll look forward to that. Rick can be an engaging sort, even if he is a loia ;-)

Russell Brown

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:04:34 +1300

The response from the audience at last night's recording seemed to be that with the assistance of Rick and Jane we'd covered a dry and complex topic (TPPA) in an engaging way — which is exactly what we were trying to do.

So that's 9.05pm tonight, TVNZ 7.

nzlemming

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:49:59 +1300

Not a comparison I'd previously considered but, once thought, cannot be unthought. Damn you, Paul Campbell, and your low and adventurous associates!

Paul Campbell

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:27:00 +1300

Sacha – they're 'technical emmys', they hand them out at a different ceremony a few days before corralling the geeks with a couple of 2nd rate stars (or so I'm told, it's not like I got to go) – they're still all bright and shiny though – mind you, as…

nzlemming

Thu, 31 Mar 2011 07:10:35 +1300

I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the USA wouldn’t be too worried about these free trade talks dragging on forever.

Don't rely on that. It's the copyright and patent law stuff that is driving this US involvement. The lobbyists have managed to capture US government thinking about these things…

Rob S

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:56:18 +1300

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the USA wouldn't be too worried about these free trade talks dragging on forever. Getting included means that they can now stall/stop any agreement that goes against their interests. There seems to be an element of US IP that is rentier in nature…

Sacha

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:32:57 +1300

I share two Emmys for that

cool

Aidan

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:21:39 +1300

I don't think it is true that MPEG4 is a problem. I gave links to two set top boxes here in aus ($55 and $69) that both support MPEG4.

The problem is they have no incentive to add the necessary logic to support the NZ channel layout as there is…

Tamara

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:40:33 +1300

We have the Panasonic DVR and considering how much we spent on it it's pretty hopeless. The UI is ugly (why oh why?) and slow to respond. The Guide has great gaps in it most of the time. Upsides are that recording is really easy and you can burn on…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:13:07 +1300

add to that the stupid 'TV Guide' patent (if you want to display your programs on a grid you have to pay them) which I personally think fails the blooming obvious test

Matthew Poole

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:08:23 +1300

Is the EPG (program guide) all wrapped up in it so I can’t present it my own way?

The situation with copyright around TV schedules in NZ is one of the most ridiculous impediments to producing bespoke commercial PVRs, or was last I heard. That a TV company can claim…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:03:58 +1300

Paul, we are thinking about getting a PVR in the not too distant future. Seeing as you would probably know more than the average bear about whats good, whats bad, whats needed, whats not etc, is there one you would recommend? Dont have sky, so i guess this means freeview…

Russell Brown

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:34:05 +1300

That’s a reasonable part of it, yes. NZ’s out on its own in using MPEG4, it seems, and since we’re a pimple on the buttock of the global market we’re such a tiny possible sales source that there’s no volume to drive down prices.

Until a major market takes up…

Matthew Poole

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:20:41 +1300

So, the reason PVRs cost $600 instead of $200 is... what, simply the MPEG4 issue, or are there other factors?

That's a reasonable part of it, yes. NZ's out on its own in using MPEG4, it seems, and since we're a pimple on the buttock of the global market we're…

Russell Brown

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:13:21 +1300

An observation on the digital TV platforms:

The HD picture on Freeview terrestrial is markedly and undeniably better than that on Sky — at least for the FTA channels. I don't think enough has been made of this in marketing.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:30:31 +1300

What's driving the whole TPPA thing is a very strong whiff of John Frum economics – when the British cargo cult turned out to be a mirage in 1973, we simply swapped it for an American one.

And Bernard Hickey agrees. Not once, but twice. And what does it mean…

Andrew C

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:32:35 +1300

I spent years designing DVRs (protocol engineering, not UI) and everything I've seen in NZ so far just grates – the UIs suck – especially MySky

Paul, we are thinking about getting a PVR in the not too distant future. Seeing as you would probably know more than the average…

Sacha

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:42:59 +1300

My view then as now is that these benefits are very hard to measure

An Australian report last year measured them and came with a figure of minus $700m in just one area, didn't it?

Paul Campbell

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:12:10 +1300

And considering a DVB-T tuner now costs well under $100, Freeview need not cost a king's ransom.

(a good PVR should have 3+ tuners – but they really cost a lot less than $100 when embedded – more like $10, and are a tiny part of the whole system)

Well…

Ben Austin

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 03:55:26 +1300

Yes, I still cannot see that there has been any sort of case made for what quantifiable benefits NZ would have to gain from either signing an agreement similar or wider than the Australian- US FTA. Now that might not be a problem if it was that we would not…

Islander

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:16:42 +1300

Wrong DeepRed – the Sports Channel is not compulsory. They'd really love you to take up that option, and the Movie channel, and MySky (they keep hassling my mother about this -but not me. For the simple reason my 'phone is connected to an answering machine, and I ignore their…

Steve Barnes

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:02:32 +1300

And last I heard, the sports channels are compulsory irrespective of package. No picking and choosing it seems.

I have no sports on mine, much to the dismay of some of our more fanatical visitors. Don't get the magazine either, you can opt out.
As for TIVO, too old tech…

Steve Barnes

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:58:53 +1300

And, surely, all Freeview content being made available on Sky including additional free to air channels such as Heartland (which isn't even available on FV!). Of course a large percentage of people were going to opt for MySky, even if you don't own the box (despite paying for it).My worry…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:50:29 +1300

And last I heard, the sports channels are compulsory irrespective of package. No picking and choosing it seems.

Islander

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:36:33 +1300

The basic Sky ANZ package is $50.00 (plus $2.00 something or other for their magazine.) None of my whanau do sports channels of any kind-

Ethan Tucker

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:24:34 +1300

Further to my earlier post, you might be interested to compare the offerings of Sky NZ and Sky UK. If you want the basic Sky package plus the sports channels, this is what you pay:

NZ $70.85

UK £31.75 (NZ$67.62)
Incl Sky+ PVR, free broadband, free landline.

3410

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:02:46 +1300

So, the reason PVRs cost $600 instead of $200 is... what, simply the MPEG4 issue, or are there other factors?

Ethan Tucker

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:00:51 +1300

As long as it's a privately-owned monopoly, you understand.

You have to wonder how any attempt to dilute the rigor-mortis-like market grip of an unnamed privately owned monopoly would ever succeed, given the expensive lawyers and purely hypothetical political campaign donation power of that broadcaster.

nzlemming

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:43:07 +1300

Basically a clone of what was foisted on the Aussies with AUS-USA-FTA

Worse. Basically, everything they couldn't get in ACTA and then some. It would be a disaster for New Zealand and I'm having trouble seeing a way to divert our blinkered bureaucrats and politicians away from it – the…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:02:42 +1300

And considering a DVB-T tuner now costs well under $100, Freeview need not cost a king's ransom. That is, if Freeview survives the tsunami of anti-intellectuallism.

Paul Campbell

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:15:20 +1300

Nope – mpeg 2 is standard, mpeg 4 is still something you buy special (rather than cheapest) silicon for – the NZ market is still too small and too much stuff in freeview is just different from everywhere else.

Picking MP4 was cutting edge but you have to live with…

Sacha

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:22:38 +1300

My worry is that Freeview is going to die a slow death and we'll have just one major broadcast content provider

As long as it's a privately-owned monopoly, you understand

Adzze

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:14:28 +1300

The lack of a full EPG for Maori Television and Prime hurt TiVo too.

recordari

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:34:41 +1300

Serious marketing fail, that one.

Umm, yes, I didn't even know TiVo was available. Might have something to do with having MySky and being with Vodafone, but still, usually global brands launching locally make some sort of splash. Of course I might be living under a rock.

Aidan

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:33:25 +1300

MPEG4 is pretty much standard now (I'm guessing the chipsets are all just MPEG2/4 compatible).

Exhibit #1 $70 HD MPEG4 set top box with USB record (and media player!)

Exhibit #2 $300 twin tuner 1TB HD PVR

Exhibit #3 $59 HD MPEG4 set top box with USB record

Exhibit #4…

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:08:36 +1300

Same old drum, but lack of an unencumbered EPG (EIT) has really stuffed the NZ market.

Here in Aus I can buy an HD set top box with PVR/recording abilities for $70 (needs an external drive or flash disk) .

The fact that Freeview in NZ is MPEG 4 didn't…

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:04:31 +1300

We were patiently waiting for the release of TiVo in NZ, but when it became known that it was only going to be available through Telecom (and it wasn’t at all clear whether any other ISPs would be supported), we promptly went out and bought a freeview PVR. We felt…

Russell Brown

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:02:44 +1300

Wow, I normally agree with most of what you write, but irritating and confusing? Yikes! I love my TiVo, and find it highly enjoyable to use. The kids can use it to put Hi5 on after kindy, it cant be too confusing if my 5 year old can use it!…

Brent Jackson

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:57:44 +1300

We were patiently waiting for the release of TiVo in NZ, but when it became known that it was only going to be available through Telecom (and it wasn't at all clear whether any other ISPs would be supported), we promptly went out and bought a freeview PVR. We felt…

joseph

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:45:51 +1300

Kumara Republic

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:23:21 +1300

Basically a clone of what was foisted on the Aussies with AUS-USA-FTA.

Aidan

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:20:50 +1300

Same old drum, but lack of an unencumbered EPG (EIT) has really stuffed the NZ market.

Here in Aus I can buy an HD set top box with PVR/recording abilities for $70 (needs an external drive or flash disk) .

Public Address

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:20:50 +1300

Discussion from blog post.