Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Cannabis: The Experiment is Real

Alfie

Mon, 10 Apr 2017 19:27:41 +1200

Oh, I see, you can type anything after the story number – I have a vague recollection of someone pointing this out before (perhaps you Alfie)...
Yep... (takes a small bow). It's a feature with Stuff stories.

It's nice when somebody notices. ;-)

I think it is still being used…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 10 Apr 2017 18:55:21 +1200

What a dick!
I like the way you've incorporated that into the link url
http://www.stuff.co.nz//91314039/jon-morgan-is-a-dick
rather then the more prosaic
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/opinion/91314039/jon-morgan-were-losing-our-judgment-over-cannabis

Oh, I see, you can type anything after the story number – I have a vague recollection of someone pointing this out before (perhaps you Alfie) – now…

Alfie

Mon, 10 Apr 2017 17:41:43 +1200

Maybe it's part of Fonterra's current farmers don't polute rivers alternative facts media campaign, or perhaps Fairfax have a new policy of offering airtime to bigots. Whichever... this "opinion" piece from one Jon Morgan — editor of NZ Farmer — is, like the rivers near dairy farms, full of shit.…

Brent Jackson

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 23:40:00 +1200

See the little email icon in the top right corner of Russell's comment ? Click on it.

Joshua Campfens

Thu, 26 Jun 2014 23:02:55 +1200

Dear Russell,
I would like to make contact with you regarding a guest article proposal for hardnews. Could you send me an email: helpfuljosh (at) gmail.com or let me know how to reach you. Thank you!
Kind regards,

Joshua

Russell Brown

Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:48:14 +1300

I've written a new post here, from the symposium.

BenWilson

Thu, 28 Nov 2013 12:31:31 +1300

I think he was more likely referring to the two subsequent comments which pretty much slagged off a conference that might do some good to the debate.

I certainly wouldn't be a fan of your actual suggestion, either. The idea of predicating the purchase of something with a whole bunch…

Simon Wood

Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:56:27 +1300

Hi again Russell,

I am still curious why you deign my contributions to this discussion thread so unworthy of a considered response as to why we can't divert some (more) of the MOJ budget towards compassionate responses for drug users rather than punishment?

Perhaps my contributions were worded poorly as…

Russell Brown

Wed, 20 Nov 2013 09:19:49 +1300

Well, this conversation has become rather pointless and negative.

On a more useful note, some interesting charts from Pew Research on Americans' changing attitudes to marijuana.

andin

Tue, 19 Nov 2013 08:17:04 +1300

some of the best minds about cannabis and health from around the world for three days in Auckland, New Zealand 27-29 November.
Eh????
Bet most of them have never even tried it.
wankfest indeed

Shulgin

Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:18:50 +1300

http://norml.forumotion.co.nz/t62p210-if-sog-is-lime-and-bitters-then-xmas-is-wella-fraud#1709

yeah, but no...$800 buck wank fest....

featuring cake cutting clowns from the NDIB...

very funny proceedings.... on the first day stop at 4.20..haha rofl...not really..gett'n my glad rags....

wow... looking forward to my "ticket" so I can "network"....

PEACE

andin

Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:27:48 +1300

when I was feeling paranoid, so too others were feeling the same/similar paranoia themselves

Yeah and in those unfamiliar with owning their own feelings the typical response is to point the collective finger at a scapegoat chosen to suit the purpose. And maybe even go to war... at the very…

Simon Wood

Sat, 16 Nov 2013 23:26:06 +1300

Some more thoughts lingering that felt would be good to share in this forum...

Firstly, the cannabis debate is only part of the cruel & unnecessary ‘War on (some) Drugs’, a.k.a. the 'War on Consciousness'. I could go into length about this 50+ years of futility which has often slid into…

andin

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 23:38:28 +1300

redirect the ‘criminal punishment’ dept of the Ministry of Justice (MOJ) towards the new ‘compassionate action’ dept & instead study & write reports on how people who are inspired to build healthy relationships with each other & will willingly be monitored to build a better, more inclusive, egalitarian society.

Yes well, a laudable…

Simon Wood

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 22:04:46 +1300

I agree...for a bit more context see my answer to Rich Lock.

Simon Wood

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 22:02:39 +1300

"Hey presto" was certainly overly flippant I admit...the usual rigorous genetic testing & strict ethical standards should apply.

Having said that, using myself as an individual example, if I got tested & were found to have the gene variant linked to psychosis, I would likely think fairly seriously about whether I wished…

Craig Young

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:09:16 +1300

Which is basically what I said- pharmacogenetics.

Rich Lock

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 03:27:00 +1300

hey presto

Just like that. Because there are, obviously, no possible implications to this type of genetic testing ever, espcially in a society with semi- or fully privatised health insurance, and where acceptance or rejection of applications for various other types of thing such as life insurance may depend on…

Simon Wood

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 00:11:01 +1300

If there really is a genetic link to cannabis psychosis, then with some earnest study the science boffins should be able to I.D. the specific gene/s, (if they haven't already) & then hey presto, get yourself tested for the gene variant before using cannabis; if you have it, then it's obvious…

Simon Wood

Wed, 13 Nov 2013 00:05:20 +1300

Gosh – point blank 'No'...a fairly definitive reply Russell...!!

Perhaps we should expand our discussion into some other possibilities, considering my initial post was just written 'on the fly.'

For a start, addressing the bureaucracy required to monitor our human rights; we don't want to cost people their jobs if…

Stephen Judd

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 11:37:32 +1300

I don't think the existing "pot lobby" is going to get us across the line. Although I personally prefer a civil rights argument for law reform, I reckon it's going to be groups whose main concern is justice and health that get us there.

Craig Young

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:16:03 +1300

Although actually, the scientific evidence for medicinal cannabis derivative efficacy is quite robust. Given that it can be used to provide beneficial effects for PLWHAs, I support its decriminalisation on that basis. Got to say, again, though, I think we might end up getting euthanasia law reform before any relaxation…

Craig Young

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:13:12 +1300

But are the (NZ) pot lobby *organised* enough to hold a referendum on the issue? Added to which, how many such referenda fail because antidrug populist groups have stronger community and legislative relationships than their pro-reform counterparts? I know that there have been several successful US medical cannabis decriminalisation referenda,…

Craig Young

Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:09:15 +1300

So, how does someone susceptible to cannabinoid psychosis avoid getting access to the plant if this is the case? I can certainly see that as pot prohibitionism isn't working, there can be no question of any (say) biochemical/metabolic test for the presence of the gene, but how is diversion handled…

Rob Stowell

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:42:40 +1300

This story alone warrants attendance at IDPS. Hope you can make it :)

Shulgin

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:22:03 +1300

Yes, many of the pro-reformers are irritating and undisciplined and , frankly, smoke too much pot. On the other hand, there have been enough wise heads to convince three select committee inquiries and the law Commission of the need for reform. So it’s not like there’s no one patiently presenting…

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:00:18 +1300

I think our senior pols in all parties are convinced this is a vote loser. None of them want to lead on this issue.

Any successful move for reform will be cross-party and will emerge out of patient discussions with individual MPs. It will be presented as a public health…

Stephen Judd

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:23:50 +1300

I think our senior pols in all parties are convinced this is a vote loser. None of them want to lead on this issue.

As much as anything else, the press and the kind of stories we see in the press about the impact of drug prohibition are to blame.…

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:30:24 +1300

I’m afraid that’s why I tend to find the subject tedious. I can see the injustice involved, but they need to knuckle down, find resolute evidence-based proofs for what they say, focus on incremental reforms first and then tackle the really hard issues.

Yes, many of the pro-reformers are irritating…

Russell Brown

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:21:56 +1300

It would be great if there was a way of knowing who in advance would be in that subset. But there aren’t many drugs for which it’s that easy – usually it’s “try it and see”. In the case of dope, the consequences could be severe, since they’re mostly around…

Craig Young

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:02:09 +1300

I'm afraid that's why I tend to find the subject tedious. I can see the injustice involved, but they need to knuckle down, find resolute evidence-based proofs for what they say, focus on incremental reforms first and then tackle the really hard issues. That seems to be what happened in…

Craig Young

Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:57:53 +1300

Although, to balance things out, there is also such a thing as methamphetamine psychosis, which is several magnitudes worse than its cannabinoid counterpart. Hopefully, in terms of warning people with genetically susceptible adverse reactions off pot, the fledgeling science of pharmcogenetics might help. Cue downstream human genome sequencing research, although…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 13:04:51 +1300

...much more of a “heavy use followed by issues”.
Sounds a lot like 'work'...
Which is, as you say, pretty much like any psychoactive substance. That includes alcohol, which is not only mentally, but also physically dangerous.
I note someone writing to the SunStarTimes today, urging them to use the…

BenWilson

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 11:43:13 +1300

the pot lobby here in NZ tend to be a pack of tiresome opportunists.

Yeah, to make it the only issue you want changed, you're really a pot obsessor. It's interesting that there are so many people in this category. I guess if you really, really like it, you'll be…

BenWilson

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 11:38:48 +1300

I do suspect that there is a genetic subset of those who respond adversely to pot and they probably shouldn’t ingest it- but then, I have similar adverse responses to the SSRI fluoxetine.

It would be great if there was a way of knowing who in advance would be in…

Craig Young

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 10:45:08 +1300

I tend to be a latent supporter of pot reform. When the cannabis reform lobby properly organises itself, I'll probably support them. Until then...

Craig Young

Sun, 10 Nov 2013 10:44:14 +1300

Yes, although more like questionable junk science of dubious toxicological and pharmacological provenance. I do suspect that there is a genetic subset of those who respond adversely to pot and they probably shouldn't ingest it- but then, I have similar adverse responses to the SSRI fluoxetine.

And unfortunately, the pot…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 10:47:03 +1300

Unfortunately, given the combination of neanderthal anti-drug populism

Or to put it succinctly, superstition.

Russell Brown

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 10:13:37 +1300

Likewise, poor behaviour means, progressively restricted access to chosen substance; simple.

What you describe sounds both ghastly from a human rights perspective and unworkable on a practical level. How many lives would the state be directing? Who would decide which activities and causes were worthy? Who would keep this ledger…

Craig Young

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 09:44:52 +1300

Unfortunately, given the combination of neanderthal anti-drug populism and counterproductive cannabis lobby fragmentation here in New Zealand, cannabis law reform will remain strictly hypothetical in the intermediate future...

Simon Wood

Sat, 09 Nov 2013 01:05:36 +1300

A MODEST IDEA TO TAKE TO THE CANNABIS & HEALTH SYMPOSIUM

If you want to change personal thru societal health outcomes, it's not because this or that legal/illegal substance is available to obtain that will cause people to change their behaviour, its how you incentive them.

We have long been obsessed…

Shulgin

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:34:17 +1300

Cannabis, our intelligence assessment

is real.

Prof David Nutt is talking in Auckland Dec 6 at the medical school Auckland University. Thant should also be interesting. He is talking about “evidence” based policy, actually being used for drug matters. Novel idea!

I would like to make a pitch for one…

Russell Brown

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 13:02:22 +1300

Washington DC is poised to decriminalise.

Meanwhile in Arizona, prosecutors aver that even the pot you smoked months ago will see you go down on a drug-driving charge,

Rich Lock

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 11:36:30 +1300

I also went to a couple of bars over there, which had a really different vibe.

There are (or used to be) a handful of bars that didn’t mind the smokers, so you could sit in and have the experience of drinking at a nice bar along with being able…

BenWilson

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 10:28:03 +1300

I almost always pay a premium for something I actually enjoy sloshing across my tongue rather than the cheapest rotgut I can find that’ll get me legless (ah Mad Dog 20/20, I’ll never forget the good times). I’d do the same (strictly in theory, you understand) for a decent, premium-quality…

Keir Leslie

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 09:56:24 +1300

For reference, the Labour Policy Platform states at 8.29 that Labour will Recognise that the problem of personal drug use is primarily a health issue and that the criminal justice system, especially prisons, only makes the problem worse. Labour will reform drug policy so it is evidence based and has…

Craig Young

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 09:02:08 +1300

There will need to be "assay tests" of cannabis purity and other steps taken in this context. Regulating cannabis is necessary to protect consumers, insure it doesn't get into the hand of younger users as well as those with pre-existing schizophrenia. I'm not sure how the latter would be enforced…

andin

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 07:28:46 +1300

Some people argue we should regulate cannabis because it’s safe – we think it should be regulated because it’s dangerous,
Using the wrong language here. Harmful to health might be a better description. Alcohol is dangerous.
An understanding of why people like to alter their consciousness might go some way…

Rich Lock

Fri, 08 Nov 2013 00:10:06 +1300

At an appropriate price point and with appropriate regulation, solid middle-aged punters like me become appealing customers and importantly, we are actually in the market. Right now I have much more to lose trying to hook up with a reputable supplier than a spotty youth with no career and no…

Rich Lock

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 23:54:46 +1300

Evidence is powerful when you get close to it.

Do you think he smoked the evidence or baked it in a cake?

Excellent article, BTW.

Russell Brown

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 22:30:11 +1300

I am surprised. Who knew he was a sleeper cell?

They all get turned eventually. Evidence is powerful when you get close to it.

BenWilson

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 22:20:10 +1300

And you might be surprised. Here is Peter Dunne, one week ago:

I am surprised. Who knew he was a sleeper cell?

Chris Waugh

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 20:13:18 +1300

Now, here is where I have been thinking. Although the Psychoactive Substances Act was intended to deal with that issue only, and not to have wider application, it does occur to me that, if after a period of time, it is shown to be working effectively, it could well become…

Russell Brown

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 20:02:40 +1300

The question came up at the Labour leadership forum in Christchurch. Jones was a very firm no, not at all, and Robertson and Cunliffe were slightly more open but said not a priority, too much of a policy distraction when there are more important things to do.

If it happens,…

Chris Waugh

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 17:45:16 +1300

I was referring to the possibility of a state monopoly rather than legalisation, but thanks. Disappointing, though, especially considering Labour found time or at least support for other progressive law reforms when it was last in government. Maybe the Greens could introduce a private members bill and Labour could have…

Stephen Judd

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 17:18:03 +1300

Probably much of Labour frothing at the mouth

Stephen Judd

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 17:15:32 +1300

you risk all the temptations of increasing income at the expense of the vulnerable, either deliberately, or by omission.

But at the moment, the vulnerable are the best market. At an appropriate price point and with appropriate regulation, solid middle-aged punters like me become appealing customers and importantly, we are…

Chris Waugh

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 17:04:39 +1300

My ideal world would not have commercial sales.
– Mark Kleiman quoted in Russell's article.

I think I agree with that. Why not have either grow-your-own and licenced notn-profit co-ops or a state monopoly required to donate any profit to charity or research? Ok, the monopoly option won't fly, it'd…

bmk

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:47:13 +1300

Temptations to which the people already selling it are not prey?

Exactly. It's going to be sold no matter what. If it's legalised at least the sale can be regulated; who it's sold to, where etc.

I'd rather it sold in a commercial zone to people with identification proving they're…

Russell Brown

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:31:13 +1300

As soon as you let anyone start selling it, regardless of laws and regulations, whether it is private industry or a single state supplier, you risk all the temptations of increasing income at the expense of the vulnerable, either deliberately, or by omission.

Temptations to which the people already selling…

Jeremy Andrew

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:20:20 +1300

I'm dubious about legalisation as described in the article. I'm very much in favour of decriminalisation though. Making it no longer an offense to possess, use or grow limited amounts of marijuana, while keeping it illegal to sell it would remove much of the incentive for criminal activity around it.…

Jason Kemp

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:10:44 +1300

The irony here is that, if natural cannabis was available in New Zealand, there would be very little demand for the synthetic stuff.

Yes and the “follow the money trail”

There are obviously lots of questions but I’m betting Treasury will want to know how much tax growers might pay…

Public Address

Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:10:44 +1300

Discussion from blog post.