Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Cabinet and the Reeferendum

Joe Boden

Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:56:48 +1200

And there is plenty to discuss. Tax, could it create a perverse outcome for example?

Is this process of cannabis reform by referendum also an opportunity to take stock and look at our democratic health? How sophisticated is contemporary propaganda if there is even any at play?

And I like…

Sacha

Mon, 08 Jul 2019 11:50:32 +1200

Is the well known and popular celebrity psychotherapist, Kyle MacDonald, also a qualified psychiatrist?

No. And I suspect he’d chuckle at ‘celebrity’. :)

Joe Boden

Fri, 05 Jul 2019 12:34:09 +1200

The NZMJ has accepted our letter responding the FF's press release. If you'd like a copy email me at . I can't post it here due to copyright restrictions.

linger

Tue, 02 Jul 2019 23:26:02 +1200

At this point I would like to direct you towards the episode of Andrew Maxwell’s Public Enemies on the drugs trade (first broadcast in 2013, but recently rebroadcast on BBC Radio 4 Extra, so currently available for streaming until the end of July 2019).
“I’m not going to ask if…

Moz

Tue, 02 Jul 2019 10:22:18 +1200

I never have used recreational drugs

Can you just clarify whether that includes legal psychoactive substances like alcohol and caffeine? Remember the laughter when the UK proposed to outlaw *all* psychoactive substances, and the horror when they did?

andin

Sun, 30 Jun 2019 23:18:26 +1200

I think it’s important not to let it be glamorous in the eyes of young people.

Completely ban any advertising industry input funnel all information thru scientific channels and informed parents. TELL 'EM...Your messing with your minds, kids, try and show a bit of respect for yourselves, do that and…

Craig Young

Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:00:09 +1200

I didn't. In fact, I never have used recreational drugs, but I am a strong believer in evidence-based research and public policy based on it across the board, as opposed to junk science. I believe in harm minimisation and risk reduction. When it comes to premature use, we will need…

Joe Boden

Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:28:28 +1200

And among other things, I wonder how exactly the regulation is going to stop children from smoking dope. Will it be more or less a cut and paste of the regulation currently in place to reduce alcohol harm on children?

The Canadian idea is control of the supply chain. Currently,…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 23 Jun 2019 11:12:14 +1200

This is important for me because I take things way too seriously.
I find the simplest panacea is the old maxim;
'Trust in Allah,
but tie up your camel'

Moz

Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:00:50 +1200

Only the self-righteous may enter the kingdom of heaven?

linger

Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:36:59 +1200

Just high and mighty?

Joe Boden

Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:35:53 +1200

Family Fist is concerned about violent behaviour? Talk about the worm turning, whatever happened to “god given right to punch children in the face”?

See, that's ok, so long as you are not high. :D

Moz

Tue, 18 Jun 2019 11:52:39 +1200

Family Fist is concerned about violent behaviour? Talk about the worm turning, whatever happened to "god given right to punch children in the face"?

Joe Boden

Tue, 18 Jun 2019 11:17:57 +1200

We're currently preparing a letter to counter Family First's misrepresentation of the evidence around cannabis and psychosis (which they want to link to violent behaviour). I'll keep you all posted.

Moz

Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:54:46 +1200

It's as much that there's no useful tagging or threading, so I can't just follow, say, "Russell Brown's considered public posts", or "discussion of {post on Public Address}", I have to accept "everything Russell posts" or "anything tagged public address" and good luck with that.

It doesn't scale. I could…

andin

Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:51:37 +1200

twits either vomit hundreds of tweets a month or retweet all sorts of stuff

Its certainly quantity over quality, offensiveness generating outrage is a seller too.The downward spiral goes on

Moz

Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:26:11 +1200

the Public Address System party is over

Yep. I believe all the cool kids have taken to twitter or other antisocial media and I just can't be bothered. There's just no place for reflection let alone research, and even the better twits either vomit hundreds of tweets a month or…

Katharine Moody

Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:53:07 +1200

Great response, Russell, to Mike Hosking's deceitful behaviour in the form of his "reporting" on this issue;

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12239675

He really is an idiot.

andin

Wed, 12 Jun 2019 15:43:29 +1200

if they try prescribing heroin

Its usually in the form of morphine and the best way to alleviate suffering at end of life situations. Say no to that if you want, I wont be.
Heroin addiction is unlikely to cause brain damage. But heroin addiction could leave you socially isolated…

linger

Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:55:20 +1200

And also (almost inseparably tangled up with "learnt", but persisting into the next generation regardless of environment), an epigenetic contribution further limiting impulse control and increasing base anxiety levels.

Neil

Wed, 12 Jun 2019 05:36:41 +1200

Yes, plus a smaller number exposed to meth while in the womb. There’s still not much support for fetal alcohol alcohol syndrome let alone meth.

Although often lots of compounding factors and I generally get to see those with lots of severe compounding factors but there is a degree of…

Neil

Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:45:39 +1200

Unlike say meth addiction, which is likely to cause brain damage, make you socially isolated and you could wind up in jail.

One of the many tragedies of meth will be the legacy of a cohort young people with meth related brain damage moving through the education and health services.…

andin

Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:27:27 +1200

Whats dangerous about heroin is the risk of addiction, which won’t do any physical damage. The damage from addiction would be more psychic.
Dont kid yourself any drug from herbal tea to H has physical effects on neural tissues(the brain) and addiction is physical damage/changes to the neural transmitters and…

Craig Young

Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:21:03 +1200

Two new television opinion polls seem to show opposition to decriminalisation of cannabis for personal use (unsurprisingly, particularly amongst National voters and 55+ voters): https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113377450/new-polls-show-more-kiwis-against-legalising-recreational-cannabis

linger

Mon, 10 Jun 2019 20:59:55 +1200

I wouldn’t want to deny anyone their faith, nor to disrespect anyone’s reasons for avoiding alcohol. But it was unsettling to realise that the label showing the impurity level was not helping. My student would have been more comfortable with a product label that didn’t mention the possibility of any…

Rob Stowell

Mon, 10 Jun 2019 20:09:39 +1200

Driving down Ferry Rd was surprised by a giant family fist “saynopetodope” billboard ad: Cannabis has a Children’s Menu replete with pics of candy esp gummy bears. It seemed fundamentally dishonest – noone on the pro side supports selling dope to kids, or anything like that. Even where gummy bears…

Moz

Mon, 10 Jun 2019 09:27:45 +1200

Religion trumps chemistry

Some people's religious views trump reality in general, to them that is the essence of faith.

linger

Sun, 09 Jun 2019 14:09:24 +1200

Apart from Twitter basically being a synonym for “please cite source”, dosage matters. One molecule of anything isn’t going to spoil your day.

Tangentially related: one of my Muslim students was worried about sourcing alcohol-free vinegar. By which she meant, guaranteed 0.00000% alcohol. Problem being that almost all commercially available…

andin

Fri, 07 Jun 2019 10:03:25 +1200

Remind me, why was alcohol prohibition introduced?

Puritanical zealotry, although to be fair to the dear christian ladies of the temperance leagues they had had a gutsful of the drunken males around that time getting a skinful and acting like entitled fuckheads, and beating up on women and children, one…

Mikaere Curtis

Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:47:05 +1200

Anyone who has experienced a magic mushroom trip. How would it feel to have food poisoning on top of that?

Happened one time to a friend who got food poisoning from a cafe before. Obviously not a good time for anyone involved.

I've never heard of anyone getting food poisoning…

andin

Thu, 06 Jun 2019 22:49:28 +1200

alcohol prohibition wasn’t all just bad

Those were all unintended consequences, that some worked out well was plain dumb luck. And Jazz was around before prohibition, it just gave musicians venues to play in, and paying jobs rather than street corners and a hat for 'donations'. There was little to…

simon g

Tue, 21 May 2019 17:37:58 +1200

She was responding to the New Conservatives' deputy leader. Her description is hardly inaccurate.

Take some time to read their online output, which at the time of that tweet included people like David Moffett (he has since moved on). Bigotry is exactly what they embody, or worse, pander to.

Swarbrick…

Simon Armstrong

Tue, 21 May 2019 16:49:45 +1200

much later, I can only find the term cowardice which is I suppose attacking their argument rather than their manhood.

It is pretty abrasive stuff https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/1113967582736838658

Sacha

Tue, 21 May 2019 16:45:25 +1200

Chlöe Swarbrick MP calling a twitter user a coward for voicing their point of view

Do you have a link for that?

Simon Armstrong

Tue, 21 May 2019 13:25:51 +1200

In the interest of debate perhaps referring to your opponents as bigots is not helpful – about as unhelpful as Chlöe Swarbrick MP calling a twitter user a coward for voicing their point of view.

Joe Boden

Tue, 21 May 2019 11:02:09 +1200

Haha Im sure. I just hope he learned something from the conversation. Though that does take a willingness to admit when you are mistaken in a belief and Im not sure he has that ability, but I dont know the man personally.

Based on the brief conversation I had with…

Craig Young

Tue, 21 May 2019 09:42:55 +1200

FamF Alert. Ben Cort is one of the featured speakers at Family First’s Forum on the Family (sic) bigotfest. Here’s the blurb:

"Ben Cort is from Colorado and is the author of Weed, Inc.: The Truth About the Pot Lobby, THC, and the Commercial Marijuana Industry, released in September 2017.…

andin

Mon, 20 May 2019 17:26:00 +1200

Joe Boden

Mon, 20 May 2019 15:10:55 +1200

Haha snap
My Thanks to Joe and Allison for that

At about 10.30 this morning my office phone rang. It was Bob McKoskrie, and he was not in a good mood.

andin

Sun, 19 May 2019 10:43:17 +1200

Haha snap
My Thanks to Joe and Allison for that

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 19 May 2019 08:57:16 +1200

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/112765917/alison-mau-family-first-is-trying-to-scare-you--dont-fall-for-it

andin

Wed, 15 May 2019 09:33:57 +1200

Family First is now trying to link cannabis with psychotic episodes.

They really went out of their way to find those examples. A lot are behind paywalls and one I see was just people filling in questionnaires, so not all that reliable. But scaremongering none the less. Whats a lobby…

Craig Young

Wed, 15 May 2019 08:34:14 +1200

How exactly does prudent behaviour when driving segue into cannabis prohibition? Wouldn't health promotion and social messaging work without having to criminalise cannabis?: https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2019/05/random-roadside-drug-testing-must-be-urgently-introduced/

Craig Young

Tue, 14 May 2019 08:29:55 +1200

Unfortunately, this may be far more effective- Family First is now trying to link cannabis with psychotic episodes. There is a relationship, but it involves prior susceptibility to psychotic episodes and a medical diagnosis of schizophrenia. Any substance has contraindications and allergies. What needs to be done here is rig…

Craig Young

Mon, 13 May 2019 09:47:51 +1200

Let's face it, though, after the mishap happened, Colorado moved quickly to remedy the situation by introducing what seems to be prudent and limited regulatory responses, which indicates that wholesale prohibition wasn't needed to offset this problem. Labelling and child protection warnings are reasonble steps and safeguards to take. '…

andin

Mon, 13 May 2019 09:26:48 +1200

this aspect of its propaganda has not been subjected to critical analysis and exposure

Laughing at this stupid strategy is always fun, but then you run the risk of righteous offence being taken, and who knows how much mileage can be got out of that, tho you can be sure…

Craig Young

Sun, 12 May 2019 12:35:55 +1200

So, no gummy bears permitted, perhaps? It would defuse a major visual propaganda motif and keep them away from children. Parents who eat them need to take steps to keep them under lock and key. away from small hands and mouths.

Craig Young

Sun, 12 May 2019 12:34:09 +1200

I think there may need to be regulations that state that any cannabis edibles should not be manufactured in a form that might potentially be attracted to children and should be clearly labelled as cannabis edibles: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wn7a9w/legal-weed-edibles-are-going-to-look-a-lot-different-by-next-year

Craig Young

Sun, 12 May 2019 12:28:21 +1200

It's been a fairly consistent visual motif within Family First's anti-pot propaganda, with the accompanying rhetoric about 'child endangerment' since its inception. However, this aspect of its propaganda has not been subjected to critical analysis and exposure, no.

Sacha

Sat, 11 May 2019 10:45:52 +1200

Has anybody written about NZ's local righties borrowing the 'gummy bears' theme from North Americans?

Craig Young

Sat, 11 May 2019 09:46:12 +1200

Meanwhile, Nick Smith is singing in cue with Family First over drugged gummy bears: https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2019/05/suspended-nick-smith-says-drug-driving-bill-an-urgent-priority/

And California's pot tracking system is questioned:
https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2019/05/wheres-the-pot-california-tracking-system-unlikely-to-know/

simon g

Sat, 11 May 2019 01:28:22 +1200

Every vote for Peter Dunne, over 4 or 5 successive elections, was a non-binding referendum on whether Labour or National would be in government.

I'd rather take my chances with the 95% probability of this referendum result being honoured by Labour and the Greens, than throw darts blindfold at Dunne's…

andin

Fri, 10 May 2019 21:27:36 +1200

I just hope your right.

, it’s people within the coalition.
So they are aiming the gun at their feet?

And if I have to read another fucking piece about what MP smoked pot and how they felt! ^$#*& FUCK !!!
Typically the response is 'made me feel uncomfortable' REALLY! So…

Sacha

Fri, 10 May 2019 20:25:35 +1200

But the coalition does have the power to muck up the framing hard enough that it’s just not quite going to cross the threshold.

They do seem to have a natural flair for fucking up framing.

Russell Brown

Fri, 10 May 2019 18:29:12 +1200

Peter Dunne is not impressed.

He’s full of shit. I’m already weary of all this high-constitutional posing, tbh.

Yes, it’s somewhat disappointing that the referendum will not be self-executing. But where was all the outrage during the year or so when the referendum wasn’t going to be binding?

I’m with…

BenWilson

Fri, 10 May 2019 17:03:11 +1200

How long is that going to take? Fucking forever, death will come sooner at this rate.

I've never felt it to be more imminent, TBH.

I don't really think the greatest danger is the idiotic Nats ATM, it's people within the coalition. Whilst it's an issue that has quite a…

andin

Fri, 10 May 2019 15:19:57 +1200

Peter Dunne

He's not impressed about the non binding part for one, and that there will be no worked up bill for all to peruse before voting, second. It all reads like political gamesmanship to me. Dont know what he's fretting about really, he's getting a fucking fat govt pension…

BenWilson

Fri, 10 May 2019 14:55:10 +1200

Peter Dunne is not impressed.

Well, he did have like 16 years or so to have a go himself....

Tom Semmens

Fri, 10 May 2019 14:07:32 +1200

Peter Dunne is not impressed.

Of course he is not impressed, that creakingly ancient stuffed shirt made an art form of obfuscation dressed in up a bow-tied tweed of supercilious pomposity.

Tom Semmens

Fri, 10 May 2019 14:02:00 +1200

It is now blindingly obvious National are going to run a “just say no, two ticks for blue” campaign next election with maximum fact free FUD.

Middle aged male blowhards in the media will reckon their love and support National's "strong stand".

Simon Armstrong

Fri, 10 May 2019 13:37:08 +1200

I applaud the opt-out nature of the referendum – something I wish more than a single MP had done when it came to the small minded tinkering that were his legal high experiments on low income New Zealand.

I am beginning to think Greens made a huge mistake and the…

Sacha

Fri, 10 May 2019 13:11:57 +1200

Peter Dunne is not impressed.

Simon Armstrong

Thu, 09 May 2019 14:50:54 +1200

Denver vote is close on mushies. TBC

But in a state where voters legalized marijuana for recreational use seven years ago, the psilocybin initiative was a test of whether that victory reflected widespread acceptance of a moral principle that could be extended to other drugs. It would have been the…

BenWilson

Wed, 08 May 2019 12:45:53 +1200

Just want to say thanks Russell for keeping the constant feed of good quality info on this unfolding process. I don't have much more to say other than it looks like it's well in hand. In fact, that's really why I don't have much more to say. Swarbrick is doing…

Sacha

Tue, 07 May 2019 21:31:49 +1200

Andrew Geddis is kind of relaxed about this whole 'binding' business.
So, while it is true that any bill endorsed by the voters at the referendum may be changed by MPs before being enacted into law, so too can (and has) an existing Act endorsed by the voters at a…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 07 May 2019 16:12:41 +1200

We can sum up the 2019 Nats: sausagey slushy gummy bears by stealth.
We can now also add the ’Bridges of Sighs’!
National leader Simon Bridges was kicked out of the House on Tuesday after loudly sighing before an argument with Speaker Trevor Mallard over an alleged “barnyard noise”.
……

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 07 May 2019 15:23:32 +1200

Simon said “gummy” 4 times in his short stand-up this morning. .... Honestly, where do they get their ideas from? Old Simpsons episodes?
Just replace "Gumboots" with 'Gummy Bears' and you've got National's next election anthem... Daggesque of course!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tAWwqKNI7g
...Gummy Bears are different to M&Ms right?

linger

Tue, 07 May 2019 13:20:03 +1200

Toothless, but still sucking away,
gumming the issues, and the works.

Just a shame that Labour has ended up offering so little of a contrast on so many matters where they promised to make a difference…

Trevor Nicholls

Tue, 07 May 2019 13:12:24 +1200

Dummy bores gonna prate on 'bout gummy bears.

We can sum up the 2019 Nats: sausagey slushy gummy bears by stealth.

Sacha

Tue, 07 May 2019 12:50:17 +1200

They are bound to travel on something like this, surely.

Sacha

Tue, 07 May 2019 12:49:02 +1200

where do they get their ideas from?

Republicans

Sacha

Tue, 07 May 2019 12:47:45 +1200

Nats twisting and turning like a twisty turny thing about joining the constructive cross-party process.

simon g

Tue, 07 May 2019 12:42:10 +1200

Well, now we know National’s official line. It’s “Gummy Bears”. The new “Slushies”.

Simon said “gummy” 4 times in his short stand-up this morning. He wanted to make sure we all got the message. His deputy has been repeating it too. Honestly, where do they get their ideas from? Old…

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 May 2019 10:56:10 +1200

I imagine Russell will be writing something more detailed but in the meantime, here’s the actual Cabinet paper (pdf, 30 pages).

Yep, just writing something for the dirty old Spinoff right now. There is a lot of detail in that Cabinet paper. It's fascinating.

andin

Tue, 07 May 2019 10:30:06 +1200

lobby the govt consultation process,

So that means getting to Wellington at the right time and place. I hope finding that out is made easy for members of the public. Then theres the cost of getting there.

Sacha

Tue, 07 May 2019 10:22:57 +1200

There are many ways to fatally dilute a proposed law while pretending to agree with it, as Winston and the Nats both know.

Craig Young

Tue, 07 May 2019 10:11:16 +1200

Meanwhile, over in the No, We're Prohibitionist Dopes camp...
https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2019/05/canada-already-showing-troubling-signs-from-legalising-dope/
https://www.familyfirst.org.nz/2019/05/drugged-driving-drug-growing-stealing-electricity-resisting-arrest/
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1905/S00082/campaign-for-nope-to-dope-vote-already-making-impact.htm

simon g

Tue, 07 May 2019 10:06:12 +1200

That's true. But National's quandary is that Labour and the Greens can simply say "We will accept the result of the referendum". They want a Yes, but will accept a No – however unhappily. Status quo remains.

Whereas National will want a No, but dare not say that they will…

Sacha

Tue, 07 May 2019 09:52:55 +1200

To guarantee a change, citizens will need to:
– lobby the govt consultation process, and
– vote yes in the reeferendum, and
– re-elect the current govt, and
– ensure party vote proportions do not shift coalition power towards those who are likely to dilute the law after the election.…

Sacha

Tue, 07 May 2019 09:49:09 +1200

I imagine Russell will be writing something more detailed but in the meantime, here's the actual Cabinet paper (pdf, 30 pages).

simon g

Tue, 07 May 2019 09:28:27 +1200

It's a shame the law won't be passed before the election, so they'd better make sure the question is watertight.

Still, National are now screwed (assuming they don't join the party, which would still be their best option politically). National have to oppose the referendum happening at all, or campaign…

Russell Brown

Tue, 07 May 2019 09:13:06 +1200

And here’s the reveal, such as it is:

7 May 2019

New Zealanders to make the decision in cannabis referendum

The Government has announced details of how New Zealanders will choose whether or not to legalise and regulate cannabis, said Justice Minister Andrew Little.

The Coalition Government is committed to…

Nick Russell

Mon, 06 May 2019 12:01:29 +1200

I don't think we should be getting our hopes up too much about the referendum. The Government's responses to the Tax Working Group and the Welfare Expert Advisory Group have really helped to redefine the word "underwhelming" without accomplishing much else. So the outcome here may be equally lukewarm.

Russell Brown

Mon, 06 May 2019 10:52:57 +1200

Oh no. They don’t currently have access to weed, apparently. My kids are surrounded by teenagers as young as 14 who buy, sell and smoke the stuff. Don’t tell Paula. They act as if anyone will be able to buy marijuana when legislation is brought in, when in reality that…

Russell Brown

Mon, 06 May 2019 10:51:04 +1200

Nice work by Dan Satherly on Newshub's story, in which Simon Bridges dismisses Chloe Swarbrick's statement that what National has isn't the Cabinet paper:

"What would she know? She's not part of the Government," said Bridges, who is also not part of the Government.

Andre

Mon, 06 May 2019 10:41:12 +1200

I can't stand the way the naysayers like Paula Bennett couch everything they say on the subject as if no-one currently smokes marijuana in New Zealand, especially not teenagers. Oh no. They don't currently have access to weed, apparently. My kids are surrounded by teenagers as young as 14 who…

Public Address

Mon, 06 May 2019 10:41:12 +1200

Discussion from blog post.