Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: But seriously, drug policy

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 19 Sept 2014 11:07:31 +1200

I just don’t think that dope is the answer to our lack of economic sophistication.

I'd imagine that the future internationally with the magic ingredients in marijuana is in converting it to a pill or liquid form. Selling dope as a medicine is going to involve law change in many…

DexterX

Tue, 16 Sept 2014 00:19:11 +1200

“These kids already get pot – the question is whether making them outlaws helps or harms them.
I would certainly agree with him that supplying cannabis to people under 18 should be an offence.”

Engaged some casual “site” labour for three weeks – as things progressed it turned out he,…

Stewart

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 18:14:01 +1200

Agreed.

It's not like coming from a dysfunctional family isn't having more effect.
And many dysfunctional families are as a result of problems which have political solutions.
So maybe there's a political solution to consider?

S-L

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 17:01:12 +1200

With there being the potential problems is the potential benefits. I mean it's not like people aren't aware of the problems, its like smoking, there are images of the potential problems on the packet but people still smoke.
In saying that, everything that happens is really about curiosity, drugs have…

Brent Jackson

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 12:51:15 +1200

They should be preventing the next generation to be aware of the drugs in existence and change the way people think about taking it.

I believe you need the opposite. You need the younger generation to be aware of drugs, and be aware of the potential problems with them. Withholding…

S-L

Sun, 14 Sept 2014 12:14:34 +1200

Why has drugs become so strongly about politics..
In the end people are still going to take cannibis regardless of if it's legal or not.
Reducing anti-depressants is not worth a fight either, it's up to the individual who thinks they need it and the doctors who are in charge…

mark taslov

Fri, 12 Sept 2014 02:39:21 +1200

Apart from an odd section promising to lean on Pharmac to ”take a lead role in seeking to reduce the inappropriate prescribing of drugs such as anti-depressants” (let’s leave that up to doctors and health researchers)

A lighthearted rundown of some issues here (links within):

In 1997, GlaxoSmithKline did something…

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 10:20:30 +1200

Most of the non-gourmet supermarket dried varieties of those four are imported.

Yeah I guess in something low volume and light, where most of the cost wasn't in the growing but in the harvesting, processing, packaging and shipping, storing and selling, it would hardly matter where it hailed from. Probably…

bob daktari

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 09:59:00 +1200

very valid points Ben and Steven, hadn't thought of the bulk and price issues through at all, it was only an afterthought on the medicinal market potentials (for NZ owned patents and products).

Though a quick google suggests there is at least for now a market for exports used for…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 09:52:32 +1200

I guess a reasonable comparison is suggesting that NZ could dominate the world in growing parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme. Do any countries even import those?

Most of the non-gourmet supermarket dried varieties of those four are imported.

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 09:08:17 +1200

I guess a reasonable comparison is suggesting that NZ could dominate the world in growing parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme. Do any countries even import those? Possibly extremely cold climates? I've got an oversupply problem from those just off $10 worth of seeds purchased 10 years ago.

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 09:04:30 +1200

I just don’t think that dope is the answer to our lack of economic sophistication.

Yes, we'd have to sell an awful lot before it even raised its head as a significant crop, and there wouldn't be much of an export market in it – anywhere it would be legal…

andin

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 07:30:03 +1200

The picture of someone smoking a joint to cure some ailment is an aging stereotype in a day when the Cannabidiol (CBD) portion of the plant can be extracted separately to the THC (psychoactive component) and delivered through a variety of mechanisms from sprays to edibles to vaporizers

So right.…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 07:22:16 +1200

Remember, the Lancet published Wakefield’s MMR nonsense as well as much reputable stuff.The Lancet remembers it as well as you do. The controls put in place to prevent a similar embarassment are extensive (and, if you're trying to get a paper published, tiresome, even though you understand why they're there).…

stephen clover

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 07:09:39 +1200

Fwiw, the evidence on marijuana smoking and lung cancer is more conflicted than it is for tobacco smoking.

And let's remember that there are numerous ways to consume cannabis — medicinal or otherwise — other than smoking it, and which consequently carry far less health risks from that perspective.

Kiwi

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 04:06:39 +1200

While, Cannabis may not be the miracle wonder drug some people claim it to be there are very real benefits from extracts from the cannabis plant. The picture of someone smoking a joint to cure some ailment is an aging stereotype in a day when the Cannabidiol (CBD) portion of…

Shaun Lott

Thu, 11 Sept 2014 02:56:26 +1200

I'm currently living in Colorado. In the first year of legalisation, the visible effect on society where I live is.... pretty much zero. You can legally buy and consume in your own house. You can't legally smoke a joint on the street. Society has not succumbed to reefer madness. I'm…

Chris Waugh

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 23:06:40 +1200

the Korean Peninsula and New Zealand.

But these are two very different climates. But, well, whaddaya know? (I'm assuming that Scion, as a CRI, is a touch more respectable and objective than the other top search results in the Google search you suggested)

nzlemming

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 22:46:07 +1200

The study, published in the Lancet, shows daily cannabis users under the age of 17 were 60 per cent less likely to complete high school or attend university and were nearly seven times more likely to attempt suicide.

I’m curious as to which is the cause and which is effect.…

Jake Starrow

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 21:29:14 +1200

What an informative, incisive article. Food, or should that be hooch, for thought. Congrats Mr Brown.

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 20:24:09 +1200

Is there a magic formula for acceptable change in pain levels vs acceptable lung cancer increase levels?

Fwiw, the evidence on marijuana smoking and lung cancer is more conflicted than it is for tobacco smoking.

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 20:17:51 +1200

Thanks Kay, but you are muddling the water here. There is some interesting data that pharmaceutical cannabinoid extracts can help control (what is a tiny number of) kids with severe intractable epilepsy, but that’s a pretty unusual scenario. AFAIK there are no decent trials that show the medical benefits of…

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 19:38:20 +1200

AFAIK there are no decent trials that show the medical benefits of smoking cannabis exceed the harms, but I’d love to be corrected.

How does that work, btw? Considering that the harms is cancer and the benefit is pain relief, how do they trade one off against the other in…

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 19:31:02 +1200

Though, isn’t it amazing that all that public outrage, drama and energy at the start of the year has melted away to absolutely nothing just months later.

Well, they got what they wanted, so it's not that surprising.

Rob W

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 19:28:46 +1200

Thanks Kay, but you are muddling the water here. There is some interesting data that pharmaceutical cannabinoid extracts can help control (what is a tiny number of) kids with severe intractable epilepsy, but that's a pretty unusual scenario. AFAIK there are no decent trials that show the medical benefits of…

Michael Savidge

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 18:41:06 +1200

With the acknowledgement that this does not imply causation nor is it even slightly fact-checked. I'm assuming that the students wouldn't lie cos they have to use proper data, right?

Denver: population 630,000ish
Auckland: population 1,400,00ish

william blake

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 18:20:29 +1200

Mark how does one "bong up" or whatever the kids call it these days, without either behaving like someone with a head injury or getting the FEAR, and hiding in the wardrobe?

Kay

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 18:15:14 +1200

I must beg to differ Rob. There are too many people suffering from chronic pain (not necessarily terminal), as well as neurological conditions who have NOT been able to find relief through prescription medications and get relief from cannabis. As a medical doctor you really should know that they are…

UglyTruth

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 18:08:17 +1200

Promoting medicinal use of cannabis would be the most likely approach to succeed IMO.

"Recognizing that the medical use of narcotic drugs continues to be indispensable for the relief of pain and suffering and that adequate provision must be made to ensure the availability of narcotic drugs for such purposes"…

Rob W

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 17:14:54 +1200

I would certainly agree with him that supplying cannabis to people under 18 should be an offence.

Except that doesn't really work that well for alcohol currently :-(

I'd like to see small amounts ignored or decriminalised, much like getting a parking ticket or speeding. Maybe one day, when we…

Rob W

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 17:07:48 +1200

This sort of observational study is problematic, as you cannot attribute causation. For example does this study show that:
a) Daily cannabis users are more likely to drop out, commit suicide and use other drugs?
or
b) Kids with serious social problems who are dropping out, depressed and using drugs…

Mark Graham

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 16:58:40 +1200

But doesn't the research just illustrate the problems we have with drug eduction here? Prohibition has never been the answer. All we end up with is young criminals perpetuating the 'get smashed' approach to drug use (including alcohol).

Surely it's time we had some proper education on how best to…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 16:53:30 +1200

daily cannabis users under the age of 17 were 60 per cent less likely to complete high school or attend university

students under 17 who fail at high school are likely to use cannabis

You can't extract cause and effect from such a survey.

Dean Wallis

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 16:52:40 +1200

Cannabis use among teens has long-term harmful consequences, a damning new study shows.

This sort of science always concerns me – the "conclusion" is that smoking cannabis makes you drop out. However it could also mean that kids likely to drop out include cannabis in the range of "no-hoper" rebellious…

Ross Bell

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 15:26:08 +1200

This: http://opencanada.org/features/the-think-tank/comments/lessons-from-uruguays-drug-reform/

Ross Bell

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 15:25:41 +1200

Damn you, Brown!

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 15:22:13 +1200

Snap!

Ross Bell

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 15:21:30 +1200

And then we have this research which reinforces earlier work highlighting the harms from early and heavy use. For me this strengthens the argument that drug policy is a valid debate during an election. Cannabis is harmful, which is why we need to change the law (and our…

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 15:20:25 +1200

Meanwhile:

Cannabis use among teens has long-term harmful consequences, a damning new study shows.

Matt Crawford

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 14:54:13 +1200

My hope is that sensible legislative reform of drug law could well be supported by a majority of MPs. Gay marriage turned out to be rather better supported by our politicians than anyone might have thought from looking at the acrimonious passing of civil unions. I think the numbers on…

bob daktari

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 14:25:47 +1200

But when I noticed you were talking about answering northlands economic problems with weed, I just give up.

not as much answering, putting a positive spin on what could be a very profitable product and offshore market for NZ for many regions, including Northland

Assuming of course that there will…

Chris Waugh

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 14:14:36 +1200

Ginseng, is what New Zealand has a special climate for.

Really? How so? It seems to grow mostly in places like Korea, Northeast China, Siberia, and northerly parts of the Americas that have winters far colder than almost all of New Zealand. Although Wikipedia does mention a Vietnamese species -…

stephen clover

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 13:24:37 +1200

Legalise... research... create a bunch of patented products in the medical field... market and export them to the world

Northland (& NZ) could be boom town... new jobs, money,

Not just cannabis, but hemp. No-brainer.

Steve Curtis

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 13:23:29 +1200

communities (which might be local councils, but could be iwi or affinity groups) decide on the details of drug legalisation/regulation/prohibition for their people?

We used to have this for alcohol. When I first was eligible to vote we had a prohibition question on the ballot paper. Eventually Big Alcohol undermined…

Tom Semmens

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 13:11:29 +1200

A friend of mine was at an event last week where he reckoned the lavatory cubicles were heaving with groups of people all of whom (by the sound of it) were insulfating what he presumed were anti-hayfever medications. So while cannabis reform is all fine and dandy, what about other…

Steve Curtis

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 13:04:39 +1200

Ironically if cannabis was decriminalised then the market for selling an illegal drug would diminish.

Really? You over estimate the ability for lots of people to wait patiently for' their plant' to grow. Ever notice all the fast food places around in spite of it being completely legal to 'cook…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 12:11:50 +1200

How about having an overall framework and then letting communities (which might be local councils, but could be iwi or affinity groups) decide on the details of drug legalisation/regulation/prohibition for their people?

So Hone could have prohibition of alcohol and tobacco for his people, if they'd sign up for it,…

bob daktari

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 12:09:57 +1200

Legalise... research... create a bunch of patented products in the medical field... market and export them to the world

Northland (& NZ) could be boom town... new jobs, money, infrastructure etc and hope for all, paid for by a product that won't destroy our environment and it seems studies suggest won't…

UglyTruth

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 12:08:46 +1200

Another look at the "war on drugs" as a money making venture for the dark state:

Police seized a cache of 35 kilos of illegal drugs found on an American-registered Swearingen Merlin twin–engine turbo-prop during an initial search, sources told ABC Australia, and said one local man, already known to…

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 12:00:32 +1200

However much I may have disparaged harm reduction in favour of the human rights angle before, I still think the harm reduction angle is a vast improvement on the status quo, which is neither harm reduction, nor in favour of human rights. So that's a plus for IMP, even if…

MxDEJ

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 11:59:16 +1200

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more talk about the last paragraph of the Internet-Mana agreement, which boils down to "after October 25, there's every chance that we'll go our separate ways". There are plenty of differences between the parties, including drug policy, which could make it difficult to stay…

Ianmac

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 11:48:01 +1200

Hone has good reason to be wary of Cannabis. He points to the devastating effect on people in the North. Criminal gangs, young unemployed, dysfunctional families, all somehow undermined by cannabis. Ironically if cannabis was decriminalised then the market for selling an illegal drug would diminish.
So Hone is OK…

Public Address

Wed, 10 Sept 2014 11:48:01 +1200

Discussion from blog post.