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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Blockchain, what is it?</title>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=374332#post374332</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=374332#post374332</guid>
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						<p>This just reinforces my earlier dismissal of the "contracts" in Etherium as taking us back to the days before formal legal systems, when might was right and if you didn't like it you had best be the one with the might: </p><p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14691212" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14691212</a></p><p>Write your contract in a programming language with…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:49:01 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373949#post373949</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373949#post373949</guid>
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						<p><q>Bitcoin is typically hashed using ASICs which are far more energy efficient.</q></p><p>The best estimate for bitcoin is 94 kWh per transaction. Working here: <a href="https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ypkp3y/bitcoin-is-still-unsustainable" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ypkp3y/bitcoin-is-still-unsustainable</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2017 18:00:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373926#post373926</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373926#post373926</guid>
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						<p>Captchas. Noisy images generated in the reverse direction, human input required to go forward.</p><p>Ideally mined by large numbers of slaves in developing countries.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:40:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373924#post373924</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373924#post373924</guid>
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						<p><q> I read about a RAM intensive hashing algorithm which uses far less CPU but requires lots of memory.</q></p><p>Yes, and there's also even less wasteful options like connection time (which favours IOT devices... oh the malware we'd see, if all that counted was the number of devices). It's not a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2017 14:03:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Graham</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373918#post373918</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373918#post373918</guid>
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						<p><q>From a Motherboard/Vice article yesterday Ethereum transactions are estimated to take 45 kilowatt-hours of electricity per transaction, VISA is estimated at 0.00651 kWh per transaction.</q></p><p>That seems to be cherry picking data to make the problem sound as bad as possible.  It's like saying that cars are terrible because the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2017 11:03:47 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373917#post373917</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373917#post373917</guid>
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						<p><q>forming a marker of our relative power to simply burn down something of value to show our own value.</q></p><p>Somewhat amusingly there are "primitive tribes" who do much the same thing, sometimes literally &ndash; The Pyramids and St Paul's Cathedral, for example, but also the various "burn the giant straw…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:38:26 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373915#post373915</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373915#post373915</guid>
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						<p><q>As expected (and I think I documented this someplace many years ago) this is likely to lead to rampant deflation – which is of course just as much a problem to anyone attempting to use the currency as rampant inflation would be.</q></p><p>You'd probably have to tease that out. To…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2017 19:37:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>SteveH</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373913#post373913</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373913#post373913</guid>
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						<p><q>Have any of the crypto-currency/blockchain people solved the fundamental problem of power consumption? </q></p><p>You say "fundamental problem", they say "feature".<br />Seriously though, there are proposals. Alex's piece linked to <a href="https://www.ethnews.com/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-explained" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this article</a> about one proposal.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2017 18:43:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373911#post373911</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373911#post373911</guid>
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						<p>{cries}</p><p>Money quote:</p><blockquote><p>Cryptocurrencies are inefficient by design. Their decentralized nature demands a way to establish trust between strangers on the internet, and for technical reasons the best answer we seem to have developed so far is to back blockchains up with enormous amounts of electricity and computing power.</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2017 15:29:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>David Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373910#post373910</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373910#post373910</guid>
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						<p><q><br />Have any of the crypto-currency/blockchain people solved the fundamental problem of power consumption? </q></p><p>Nope. </p><p>From a Motherboard/Vice article yesterday Ethereum transactions are estimated to take 45 kilowatt-hours of electricity per transaction, VISA is estimated at 0.00651 kWh per transaction.</p><p><a href="https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/d3zn9a/ethereum-mining-transaction-electricity-consumption-bitcoin" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/d3zn9a/ethereum-mining-transaction-electricity-consumption-bitcoin</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:23:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373909#post373909</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373909#post373909</guid>
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						Yeah, I think the problem is that the inventors of bitcoin were (I suspect) propertarian wingnuts. As such, they believe in the idea of a currency based on an artificially scarce commodity (cf gold). As expected (and I think I documented this someplace many years ago) this is likely to…
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				<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:01:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>nzlemming</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373903#post373903</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373903#post373903</guid>
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						<p><q>From memory, though, the law which prevented it seemed to be more obscurely about forging or replicating ballot papers than about producing evidence of who you'd voted for</q></p><p>It was more about doing it on election day as being an advocacy for the party you voted for, which is verboten…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:54:09 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>izogi</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373902#post373902</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373902#post373902</guid>
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						<p>Yes that'd be virtually impossible if you were to consider, for example, a person taking a video of themselves voting on their phone.</p><p>For comparison though I wonder if there does seem to be a shortcoming in existing electoral law around this.</p><p>Last election I recall the publicity around people…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:34:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373901#post373901</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373901#post373901</guid>
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						<p><q>If you think that climate change is a problem, or that the planet is finite, this is something of a problem. But if not, it’s merely a business opportunity.</q></p><p>Yes, I have to wonder whether the human race has created a boon here, or a remarkable new way to chew…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:48:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373897#post373897</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373897#post373897</guid>
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						<p>Yep, any kind of non-polling place voting, be it postal ballots or online will suffer from the same problem.</p><p>I'd suspect that one reason the trial of online voting at last years council elections didn't happen is this unfulfillable requirement in <a href="https://www.dia.govt.nz/vwluResources/Online-voting-requirementsPDF/$file/Online-voting-requirements-2015-05-12.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">the spec</a>:<br /><q>1.24 The online voting system must not…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:27:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Moz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373896#post373896</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373896#post373896</guid>
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						Have any of the crypto-currency/blockchain people solved the fundamental problem of power consumption? My understanding is that to a large extent the  "51% hack" is measured in megawatts, and just operating a blockchain requires a considerable amount of both hardware and power. Or alternatively, guarding against a hostile takeover requires…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:09:41 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Graham</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373875#post373875</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373875#post373875</guid>
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						<p><q>If Westpac is robbed or hacked I don't lose money, but there have been multiple examples of people losing Bitcoin because exchanges were robbed.</q></p><p>There are multiple instances of exchanges being robbed where people didn't lose bitcoin,  If the theft was small enough to be covered they can continue.   Same…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:40:24 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>izogi</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373874#post373874</link>
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						<p><q>it's the interfaces between blockchains and the rest of the world that are messy</q></p><p>I suppose it's a similar thing with voting.  (Sign of the audience: I also zeroed in on those few words before I scrolled down and saw so much talking about it.)</p><p>I can accept how blockchains…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:27:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Graham</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373873#post373873</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373873#post373873</guid>
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						<p>Yeah the BlockChain aspect doesn't really work for single events.  The idea of the chain is to for appended state over time.     Strip away the chain aspect and you might as well be using public key signing. </p><p>and re: lingers comment.  I hadn't thought of it in those terms.   Providing…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:26:27 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Thomas Lumley</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373870#post373870</link>
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						<p><q>Money is safer on the Bitcoin blockchain than it is sitting on a bank’s computer system or when it is sent from one bank to another.  </q></p><p>I'm happy to believe that, and it's nice for the banks, but it doesn't translate into risks for depositors:  If Westpac is robbed or…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 18:00:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373869#post373869</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373869#post373869</guid>
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						<p><q>Oh dear, I'm sorry I didn't credit you correctly Alex</q></p><p>As noted above, my fault there.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:26:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Mike Skelton</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373865#post373865</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373865#post373865</guid>
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						Oh dear, I'm sorry I didn't credit you correctly Alex
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:40:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373864#post373864</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373864#post373864</guid>
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						<p><q>no way of enforcing privacy (e.g. from other individuals who may be present and able to influence the decision) during the act of voting.</q></p><p>Which is what blind citizens face under our current physical voting arrangements where they must rely on someone elese to mark their form. At least they…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:28:06 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Alex S</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373863#post373863</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373863#post373863</guid>
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						A public ledger does not mean that everyone can see what is on that ledger, that's the beauty of Blockchain, although for some blockchains such as Bitcoin you can see what is on the ledger. For a blockchain that does allow truly anonymous transactions, see eg <a href="http://www.coindesk.com/zcash-launch-anonymous-blockchain/ " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> Zcash</a>. [[http://www.multichain.com/blog/2016/11/understanding-zero-knowledge-blockchains/…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:07:34 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Alex S</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373862#post373862</link>
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						<p>I wrote the article at a general level to explain Blockchain to people who don't have a technical background in Blockchain. Given the word length, hard to go into technical details. Also, the technology is moving so fast that what was considered impossible is now being worked on. <br />Bitcoin is…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:59:53 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>nzlemming</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373861#post373861</link>
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						The US are currently saying that one of the defences that their election system had against the Russian attacks last year was the sheer variety of systems used, so no single attack vector could compromise the system. I'm a geek from way back, but I'm not at all in favour…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:43:58 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373857#post373857</link>
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						<p>I see that. </p><p>If we're making a system that lets a voter go along to a polling station, get given a ballot paper, and validates that they're the first to vote, then one could do that with a blockchain. The problem with it (in common with many such solutions) would…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:15:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373856#post373856</link>
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						The problem remains that, with decentralization of locations, there is no way of enforcing privacy (e.g. from other individuals who may be present and able to influence the decision) during the act of voting.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:12:46 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Graham</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373855#post373855</link>
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						Voter eligibility is a judgement, so that needs some sort of trusted element to make the call.   Once eligibility is sorted it's no different to a bean poll.  You get given your digital bean in a ledger column of it's own and you put it into the column of the…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:08:05 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373854#post373854</link>
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						<p><q>(I’m hoping the answer may be there’s a new tech column coming :)</q></p><p>The answer is that I put it in the wrong place and by the time I realised there were links out and comments posted and it was too late :-)</p><p>But I <em>am</em> thinking about a rearrangement…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:06:10 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373853#post373853</link>
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						@Russell:  Any reason this guest post is in Hard News rather than in Speaker? Mike’s comment seems to suggest that, even though the article title is bylined with its author, some readers may be confused by the fact that your name appears in the column heading.  (I'm hoping the answer…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:50:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373852#post373852</link>
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						<p><a href="https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/plymouth.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">This article proposes two blockchains</a>, one for voter status (eligible and hasn't voted) another for the actual vote, which is encrypted. (Of course, it doesn't solve the fundamental problem that any form of voting away from a polling place is *inherently* non-private).</p><p>The trouble with everything article I read about…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:44:01 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373851#post373851</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373851#post373851</guid>
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						It seems it's Blockchain day! <a href="https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/25/35648/the-technology-that-could-decentralise-the-internet?platform=hootsuite" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">A new Richard MacManus column on the topic</a> on Newsroom, which complement's Alex's quite nicely.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:32:45 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Mike Skelton</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373850#post373850</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373850#post373850</guid>
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						<p>Hi Russell,</p><p>Great intro, I'd actually just finished reading <a href="https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/newkqz/okay-wtf-is-ethereum " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> this</a>, which is a great summary of ethereum. Personally, I'm looking forward when the internet and the information on it is literally owned by everyone.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:58:17 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373847#post373847</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373847#post373847</guid>
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						<p><q>allowing secure uncorruptible electronic voting</q></p><p>Hmmm. I'm unclear on this, having heard Nat Torkington explain at our last Orcon IRL event that Blockchain wasn't a starter for electronic voting because it involves a public ledger and is therefore not private.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:53:03 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373846#post373846</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-blockchain-what-is-it/?p=373846#post373846</guid>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:53:03 +1200</pubDate>
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