I know it is not an option but what about the half completed shell of North harbour Stadium? or is it simply that it is on…

Not sure how it makes a buck as it gets maybe…

but i get the feeling that if we designed our cities, indeed if we built all our cultural icons etc, on a purely economic basis, we'd be left in a rather…

I cannot stand Rod Oram, but he does make some excellent points.

With one particular flaw. Most government spending on non-capital works items has nil economic benefit. Labour has basically doubled health spending in the last seven years, with no additional health outcomes. Labour has ballooned the size of…

Sure he may have some good points, unlike Bob the Builder in the herald this morning, but I've got a feeling the argument from the govt goes something like this.

half a billion (or whatever the figure is) for a stadium, not half a billion for a stadium or…

It's clear that anyone who thinks the stadium looks like a "used" condom has never used one.

ahahaaha!

Kyle
"Like Auckland, Dunedin needed a new stadium come World Cup time"
Actually we don't ,thats part of the "problem" , we're spoilt for choice . And we're mostly having perfectly civil discussions about it.
(tho I wouldn't mind if more of them were a bit heated)

Actually you do.…

Bart
these figures are for revenue , not…

– one-day cricket
– Aussie Rules
– football
– Edinburgh military tattoo
– Wellington Wheels Expo
– Capital Business Show
– Home & Garden Shows
– Celebrate Jesus 2000…

i support the waterfront stadium but thought the choice of Dobbyn unnecssarily divisive. He's become a poltitical activist and many NZers disagree with his politics.

I really think that's nonsense, Neil. The majority of New Zealanders don't care a fig about his politics (although the reception for the Dudes tour…

Sorry didn't think I needed to do this part.

$130 million in 2003 will double in 2011 dollars + $260 million

not 8 times as many people but probably twice as many people and yes we do have twice as many beds now and will probably have more…

we've already got the hosting rights , we dont need to 'build it and they will come ', they're already coming.

er no – the hosting rights are conditional on NZ providing at least one 60000 seat stadium for the final. Yes we could do it cheap but…

The rhetoric came from noted architects and planners, an associate professor of law, city councillors, MP's, and also other illuminaries. It hardly 'defied reason'.

I thought the bits I quoted did.

Will eight times more people turn up for the world cup than the Lions tour? Where will they all stay? – they won't be spending much money if they're all sleeping in carparks.

Even if they did, that's only maybe $400million in extra tax revenue – so as…

Come on Russell, you weren't there even though you may have had your spies.

The rhetoric came from noted architects and planners, an associate professor of law, city councillors, MP's, and also other illuminaries.…

Well that's not a very smart analysis by the Nats.

The blame…

Will eight times more people turn up for the world cup than the Lions tour?

it's not envisioned that this one off event will pay for the whole deal. It's expected to draw income from events other than bloody thugby.

Overseas they have graduation services inside stadiums, why not on…

How very, very classy – Murray McCully

Classy is my favourite one-word oxymoron. How apt.

build it and they will come

is actually not a too bad a way to conduct ventures. Why else would Gordon Ramsay sink $3 pound into his New York venture if he didn't want people to come.

Why have they built fantastic resaurants and a freaking ice climbing wall thousands…

Will eight times more people turn up for the world cup than…

but a $50 million upgrade of Eden park was supposed to cater for that. Not sure if thats still considered practical tho.

Bart , we've already got the hosting rights , we dont need to 'build it and they will come ', they're already coming.

are you sure? I was under the impression we promised the irb a 60,000 seater as part of the deal??? this is an important point – anyone…

The alternative for the waterfront stadium is not to create some new open-space design; the stadium is the only means to wrestle the land off the port.

Yup. Having perused Auckland Waterfront Vision 2040, it is my perception that there is no other way that Ports will be moved off…

I thought this thread died and I have no idea why I'm replying to someone with such a tagline but....

Dear Insolent you said

You bloody socialists won't be satisfied until you have spent every dollar of the surplus on wasteful projects with no economic return as a justification…

But hey, you go ahead and call us "yes" folks out for abuse of emotion.

Although the french camera-guys did their best to try and ruin the experience with all those stupid zoom-ins and slow-motion glow replays of people licking their lips. Seriously, what's with that?

My friend Big Gay Paul advised me that those sequences were in fact GayCam.

Excuse me? I've read ad nauseum that if this stadium doesn't go ahead Auckland is condemned to being a third world backwater and international laughing stock ...

Could you point me to the direct quotes for that? Or were you exaggerating a bit?

stupid zoom-ins and slow-motion glow replays

...those squished slo mo replays in the first half were just plain wierd. oh well, La vie en noir – we still showed them a thing or two on the field

back to the stadium (groan...) there's some new pretty pictures up now

We've been spoilt. A 23 – 11 victory over the winners of the six nations, is great by any standards. except our own, of course. sack the coach

Although the french camera-guys did their best to try and ruin the experience with all those stupid zoom-ins and slow-motion glow replays…

But its a good point that there is a lot of emotion being shown against the stadium ,as opposed to the wtf lets just build it attitude.

Excuse me? I've read ad nauseum that if this stadium doesn't go ahead Auckland is condemned to being a third world…

Even more worrying is that the All Blacks no longer looked the goods on the weekend.

We've been spoilt. A 23 – 11 victory over the winners of the six nations, is great by any standards. except our own, of course. sack the coach!

as this is a canvas that is still being added to, the latest comments and suggestions from Warren and Mahoney do address your concerns of

make sure the edges aren't blank

Sticking a beach at one end for I Prick to impress the chicks is a great idea, along…

he port isn't currently pedestrian-friendly

Hence my use of the phrase "could be".

The alternative for the waterfront stadium is not to create some new open-space design

Anyone who knows me will know I'm not exactly a fan of "open-space designs" either! Build the stadium, but make it more than…

The port isn't currently pedestrian-friendly. I agree that the waterfront option could be done very well.

The alternative for the waterfront stadium is not to create some new open-space design; the stadium is the only means to wrestle the land off the port. Additional community infrastructure can be built…

don't be so dispondent. The ABs were always going to come up against a better french side (but in the end that was debateable).

McDonald is a good fullback, one can have an off day, we excuse these of Dan Carter and Richie. His game came back thorugh out…

A bloody port isn't easy to integrate with "urbanity". A stadium is even harder to integrate with "suburbanity", as Eden Park is, than with "urbanity".

I agree, which is why I've always thought that a CBD edge site is best for the stadium. But a stadium is not usually the…

A bloody port isn't easy to integrate with "urbanity". A stadium is even harder to integrate with "suburbanity", as Eden Park is, than with "urbanity".

Pseudo-intellectual nonsense aside, a great stadium is a great stadium. Eden Park will never come up to scratch. Stick it on the waterfront, replace…

And I think I'd be on strong ground in saying that the hysteria has overwhelmingly come from the anti-stadium lobby – so much of the language has been plain daft.The anti-stadium rhetoric generated in that meeting yesterday just defied reason. Cancerous? Used condom?

so someone rolled out the cancerous word…

from the Sisters of Mercy

..Slamming through
Slamming through
What do we need to make our world come alive?
What does it take to make us sing?
While were waiting for the next one to arrive?
One million points of light
One billion dollar vision thing..…

I think there is a larger cultural issue at work here: New Zealanders tend to have a problem with Bigness.

Nice insight, Raffe, though I'd tend to put it slightly differently: NZers have a problem with urbanity. With a few exceptions, NZ went from country towns to sprawling suburbia without…

Have Aucklanders given up on "the vision thing"?

Although Vancouver only got its airport link approved (RAV to be Canada line) when they got the 2010 winter games, The original…

The waterfront stadium is a colossal waste of money. On the other hand, so too is the other option…

Come on! Who was the Nat MP? When and where did he or she say this? Anyone else but you heard it? Methinks was but a figment of your overheated imagination.

Read more closely sir. That was an extract from Fran O'Sullivan's column. She knows loads of National MPs.

and I'd respectfully suggest to our host that there's plenty of foam-flecked hysterics coming from the pro-camp.

And I think I'd be on strong ground in saying that the hysteria has overwhelmingly come from the anti-stadium lobby – so much of the language has been plain daft.

The anti-stadium rhetoric…

My soundings disclose that some of Brash's colleagues want.........to defeat the project and give Helen Clark another bloody nose, is how one National MP described the tactics.

Come on! Who was the Nat MP? When and where did he or she say this? Anyone…

I mean if they are able to rip up a whole multi lane motorway in Seol and return it to beyound it's former glory in favour of a…

Fair question, and I suspect my position isn't going to be popular with anyone.

If you don't like the law – and I've got massive problems with the RMA – then you either amend it for everyone, or repeal the whole damn thing and replace it following due process.…

stadia comparison

Eden Park
Statutory consents are problematic given legal rights have accrued but not been exhausted through judicial process.
Likely to need to legislate for the stadium design option which best mitigates height/shading issue (i.e. $385M option).

Stadium…

Sorry, Russell, but if we're calling 'bullshit' on the Herald, perhaps you…

The coolest public transport in Vancouver is without a doubt the little putt putt ferries

Let's have some of that! I think the harbour is a criminally ignored means of transport in Auckland.

Interesting to note that people are now putting the debt ridden Aussie Stadium as a point of…

However, I will say one thing: is it just me, or is the (weekday) Herald single-handedly turning the whole thing into more of a shit fight than it actually needs to be?

The Business is taking it even further:

[Supporting the waterfront stadium is] a risky political strategy that could…

I mean, it's a round structure with a hole in the middle. Of course it's going to resemble other round things with holes in the middle.

We as humans don't think that round things with…

if anyone is even slightly interested, on behalf of the greater vancouver tourist board and Don Brash's exiting NZ masses...

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transportation_Services/SkyTrain/
(take your bike on it too!!!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_(Vancouver)

What have Auckland planners been doing for the last 3 decades?

Busses in Vancouver were so bloody good that when it came time to pack up and head for the sunny hills of Dunedin, we just took all our crap and jumped on the…

On the much over-commented subject of the stadium, could I just point out one thing:

"three…

People who don't actually have a clear, reasoned argument usually resort to exaggeration and name calling.

We are a young society that mostly exists on the threshold of land and sea. We do not have a deep experience of Bigness in our history, and through circumstance…

What was it Bono said about sanity and standing up in front of 70,000 people demanding their love.

Whatever it was he said, he clearly didn't say it in Auckland. Not enough stadium capacity.

What was it Bono said about sanity and standing up in front of 70,000 people demanding their love. Politicians all too often suffer from this…

tonight I am feeling for you
under the state of a strange land
you have sacrificed much to be here
‘there but for grace…’ as I offer…

It just goes to show the paucity of other news though. How many column inches has the Herald…

Herald = shitfight

sigh... yes. bloody sensationalist newsprint media. do you think, if NZ had an impartial bbc-style news service, would anyone would pay attention? or would it be too boring?

And from the dozens of songs he could have selected for the event, Dobbin sang "Welcome Home". Noted, of course, for the line "the empire is fading by the day." How very very classy

I'd think that the very fact that many New Zealanders…

However, I will say one thing: is it just me, or is the (weekday) Herald single-handedly turning the whole thing into more of a shit fight than it actually needs to be?

Yes.

However, I will say one thing: is it just me, or is…