Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Any excuse for a party

BenWilson

Tue, 03 May 2011 11:33:29 +1200

A thousand years of being told that your family is royalty because they were somehow destined to be by right – or worse – by god (a belief which played a part in Charles losing his head), can likely mould a family psyche.

I don't think the ones in the…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 May 2011 17:56:42 +1200

No, that was number 1:
1. Through force of habit and upbringing, they actually believe they serve a public purpose.

A was meaning something a little more than that – destiny through perceived entitlement. A thousand years of being told that your family is royalty because they were somehow destined…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 May 2011 17:24:59 +1200

I'd suggest when discussing constitutional matters it’s important to differentiate between actions that require an act of parliament and actions that can be executed by a government without such an act.

The former, in the Westminster system, include nearly everything. (In the case of NZ, where we have a Clayton’s…

BenWilson

Mon, 02 May 2011 17:17:03 +1200

I think you missed the key one: destiny.

No, that was number 1:
1. Through force of habit and upbringing, they actually believe they serve a public purpose.

Are you sure about that? I know she can't abdicate with the approval of every state she 'rules' but I wasn't…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 May 2011 16:10:54 +1200

Charles I, defeated by Parliament's army, captured, executed.
– James II, deposed by invading army of William of Orange, fled.

Both those pre-dated (and indeed led to) the various acts which define constitutional monarchy though.

Jacqui Dunn

Mon, 02 May 2011 15:57:29 +1200

I imagine, although knowing nothing about how such things work really, that the reason tweets are taking forever to load is because suddenly, everything's really busy. Like, breaking news about the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Islander

Mon, 02 May 2011 15:40:51 +1200

Nice .. several!

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 May 2011 15:30:50 +1200

I think the PM has the right to demand her abdication immediately.

I think not.

Previous monarchs removed before their natural demise include:
– Charles I, defeated by Parliament's army, captured, executed.
– James II, deposed by invading army of William of Orange, fled.
– Edward VIII, persuaded by Baldwin…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 May 2011 14:33:29 +1200

I think the PM has the right to demand her abdication immediately.

Are you sure about that? I know she can't abdicate with the approval of every state she 'rules' but I wasn't aware that HM's government could demand abdication. And of course each government from each country in which…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 May 2011 11:23:34 +1200

And twice the current Queen has made a call on who will form the government – in the 50s with Alec Douglas-Hume, and in the 70s with Wilson – the office still has some teeth.

Home was in 1964 – the situation stemmed from the Conservative Party having no procedure…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 02 May 2011 10:36:53 +1200

The G-G can be fired by the Prime Minister at any time, without cause.

Not without cause. Read the legislation, Rich.

well, surely within the first 90 days, anyway?
we are all equal aren't we?
:- )

In many ways the CCC in Chch has been reduced to a Privy…

BenWilson

Mon, 02 May 2011 10:02:22 +1200

The last comes from the still extant and not insubstantial royal prerogative, which also still includes the right to declare war!

I think the PM has the right to demand her abdication immediately. So I'm pretty sure this power to declare war ends up being more of an obligation, whether…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 May 2011 09:20:04 +1200

Power may not be exercised often but it still has not been completely extinguished.

Billy Bragg had a different take:

The wedding was a just a display of harmless pageantry compared to the pernicious flummery of the Queen's Speech. Wills and Kate offer no real threat to our democracy, but…

Keir Leslie

Mon, 02 May 2011 09:00:05 +1200

Actually Charles oversteps the line frequently, and has been publicly rebuked by RIBA over the Chelsea Barracks affair which lead to a rather embarrassing lawsuit.

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 May 2011 05:30:20 +1200

don't have their own bizarre views and seek to impose them where they can – quite directly in some cases; look at the abstinence-based "sex education" Bush and his ilk came up with.

The elected leader of the United States has, whether we like it or not – or approve…

TracyMac

Mon, 02 May 2011 02:24:56 +1200

Just to respond to Simon Grigg's diatribe against Prince Charles' more outre views up-thread (and no, I'm not endorsing the monarchy – I like the Irish model myself, if we can't have actual direct democracy, such as being able to recall elected MPs when we choose) ...As if "democratically elected"…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 23:35:26 +1200

Yes, indeedy-

Sacha

Sun, 01 May 2011 23:32:55 +1200

Well, at very least, it is turning up at major disasters

I admire your optimism but only that one time, and only after significant lobbying. Great thing is there is so much room for improvement.

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 23:21:34 +1200

Well, at very least, it is turning up at major disasters...

I am so glad we have Sign as our 3rd official language – I was profoundly moved by "Seeing Voices" na Oliver Sacks (there are no Deaf in my whanau, but I worked – in woollen mills in…

Kracklite

Sun, 01 May 2011 23:18:48 +1200

Quirks I like; the more the merrier. Here’s to the accumulation of more of them. I am being a bit mischievous, I admit. Absurdity is a virtue in itself for me.

As to the third language, here’s the video that convinced me that sign language is beautiful and expressive and…

Sacha

Sun, 01 May 2011 23:14:40 +1200

and – very probably- elements of the 3rd official language

not so, yet

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 23:11:40 +1200

I found that Chinese donation especially heartening chris – not least because there’d been a hefty earthquake there with hundreds dead-

and Kracklite – I think we’ve already got a century of homegrown quirks as to the way we do things: I truly dont think we need ritualistic UK stuff…

Kracklite

Sun, 01 May 2011 23:03:56 +1200

Coming late, and not having yet read the preceding, and perhaps overly pedantic...

(well, the "overly" might be redundant)

Random witterings:

There is a distinction between the Body Corporeal and the Body Politic, which gives us "The King is dead, long live the King!", meaning that the character of the…

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 22:59:38 +1200

I don't doubt that Islander, and good on you. Tangentially I've been trying to find if and how much the UK Government donated, noting that the Chinese gave $500k and one Cn businessman alone donated 100k, it'd be interesting to see some comparisons there, if for nothing more than to…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 22:53:35 +1200

True- but we’ve raised several millions to help our own. And several millions have been raised by other humans round the world to help CHCH (not least by Japan.) The K&W 10,000k has a bit less lustre when compared to some of the cakestall & art efforts originating here-

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 22:46:20 +1200

I wouldnt call some of the parties/issues/causes here, that have had UK funding, benign -

I don’t disagree with you, The UK is that annoying sometimes downright rude uncle, and yet that $10k Kate and William donated to the Christchurch earthquake appeal is more than I could come up with.…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 22:34:51 +1200

I don’t see a pressing need for NZ to extricate itself from benign potentially useful relationships.

Um, we pay for the buggers to visit here, chris. And, I wouldnt call some of the parties/issues/causes here, that have had UK funding, benign -

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 22:29:31 +1200

Not a lot to take pride in though.

I believe that there is pride to be taken from the fact that us commoner’s were merciful/merciless enough to forgive(?)/retain the monarchy in its current adulterated form as a reminder of all that went before, without chopping off heads and leaving the…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 22:15:28 +1200

Simon Grigg

Sun, 01 May 2011 21:14:51 +1200

the degree of pride I feel that we didn’t simply oust or behead our monarchs

It's easy to forget that beheading and slaughtering other contenders, and then proclaiming it was divine will, is however how this current lot originally got here.

Mostly monarchy's claim to the god-given right to rule…

Keir Leslie

Sun, 01 May 2011 21:11:52 +1200

This was the concern in the Whitlam affair --- that Whitlam would get through to Buckingham Palace while still Prime Minister, and advise the Queen to withdraw Kerr's commission, at which point Kerr becomes meaningless. (I am unsure what would have happened if Whitlam had told Kerr to his face…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 21:04:35 +1200

That (Imperial Conference) I am going to spend some serious time on. Apopo. Thanks!

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 01 May 2011 20:47:16 +1200

Read the legislation, Rich.

Could you provide a link to this statute?

Because my understanding is that this is covered not by statute but by the Letters Patent and by convention. The G-G is appointed and dismissed “at the pleasure of” the queen on advice of the NZ government. Conventionally,…

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 20:40:02 +1200

Ahem – if this a possible mention of the fact that people of Maori descent (not to mention other ANZ groupings) tend to breed rather more often than people of Pakeha* descent…well, forgone conclusion-

Still a way to go there population wise Islander, but this is a strong positive IMHO.…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 19:25:50 +1200

Ahem – if this a possible mention of the fact that people of Maori descent (not to mention other ANZ groupings) tend to breed rather more often than people of Pakeha* descent...well, forgone conclusion-

*I come from both Kai Tahu and Pakeha(peoples of other origins born here) descent: I mean…

Sacha

Sun, 01 May 2011 19:20:41 +1200

the maintenance of the British/New Zealand relationship leaves other legal avenues open for New Zealanders

I'd say you're romaticising that, even beyond the now extinct Privy Council relationship. The monarchy didn't even send a representative for the funeral of our most trusted New Zealander. Though they do seem to have…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:49:51 +1200

As I understand it (person with a few units of an Ll.B from a miserably long ago time!) that is correct.
Every so often, a murmur arises about us having a high(er) appellate court with judges from jurisdictions with a similar body of case law (Australia – difficult: Canada, more…

Lilith __

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:40:16 +1200

Recourse to the Privy Council is no longer an option under our ANZ law.

It's my understanding that even before appeals to the Privy Council were abolished, they were useful in very few cases. This was because NZ legal precedents over the years have diverged from British case law, and…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:36:00 +1200

Weeellll – if it has general application, posseeebly...humanity always likes a party and future hope!But...quite a few of us prefer it to be something relevant to here. And now- cheers anyway chris-

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:32:09 +1200

Um, I don’t suppose there’s any chance I can backtrack to this strand:

That kiss(es) was a beautiful scene. I think social/ political investment in that moment benefits us as people and as a nation.

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:23:30 +1200

October 2003 – the legislation did not hinder cases already under appropriate consideration.

nzlemming

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:23:13 +1200

The G-G can be fired by the Prime Minister at any time, without cause.

Not without cause. Read the legislation, Rich.

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:23:10 +1200

Ah I see, sorry, I've been out the country a while, well it seems like New Zealand Republica be all systems go!

Now I guess it's just a case of whether those who would retain the treaty can keep up in the baby race against those who would abolish the…

nzlemming

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:20:31 +1200

Were New Zealand already a republic, for better or for worse such an avenue wouldn’t have been available to Bain.

That avenue was only available to Bain because his original trial fell within a timeframe where the Privy Council was still the top level of appeal. See Wikipedia

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:19:45 +1200

Since when? Ah, I see, well that's a shame.

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:19:20 +1200

Recourse to the Privy Council is no longer an option under our ANZ law.

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:15:38 +1200

“other legal avenues”?

Urm, which ones precisely?

the one I just mentioned.

[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bain#2007_Privy_Council_appeal|Bain served 13 years of a life sentence before successfully appealing his original convictions to the Privy Council in May 2007. Finding there had been a substantial miscarriage of justice, the Privy Council quashed his convictions and ordered…

nzlemming

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:15:27 +1200

I don’t think I know better than anyone here Islander. Perhaps I’m wrong, I simply worry that over 37% of New Zealanders want the treaty removed from New Zealand law, that if this number were to increase significantly, then the Governor General and the British system itself could be the…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:14:34 +1200

That avenue hasnt been available to Peter Ellis , chris- and I think it would make buggerall difference to his especial circumstances.

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:13:16 +1200

the Governor General and the British system itself could be the last recourse of mediation in such an instance.

The G-G can be fired by the Prime Minister at any time, without cause.

The British have zero input, except as one of 192 members of the UN. Even when the…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:13:08 +1200

"other legal avenues"?

Urm, which ones precisely?
Our relationship – currently- is that of sovereign nation states who – regrettably, currently – happen to share the same head of State.

You're possibly talking about an appeal to Elizabeth Windsor in person?

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:08:44 +1200

and what precisely makes you think that ‘the British’ would be coming to the aid of Maori if the Treaty was ditched?

Simply that the maintenance of the British/New Zealand relationship leaves other legal avenues open for New Zealanders.

Were New Zealand already a republic, for better or for worse…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:02:46 +1200

2008? Mmhmm – and not a lot of other info-

and what precisely makes you think that ‘the British’ would be coming to the aid of Maori if the Treaty was ditched? Even if intervention was to 'their' possible advantage?

Paul Williams – +1

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:02:15 +1200

As the link says Islander; 2700 participants, but like any survey, it’s never going to give you a particularly clear indication of the feeling of the greater population, but it’s a high enough figure to cause some concern.

David Bain? Retried in an ANZ court – and what a fiasco…

Paul Williams

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:01:55 +1200

I’m unfamiliar with that poll Chris. Fortunately, neither a poll nor even for that matter a majority of electors of even MPs is sufficient to excuse the crown’s responsibilities under the Treaty. It is a matter for the courts, international courts if necessary as it was a Treaty between two…

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 18:00:36 +1200

David Bain? Retried in an ANZ court – and what a fiasco that was.
I emphatically do not think our court system perfect: the case of Peter Ellis remains as a kind of suppurating judicial sore...

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 17:58:10 +1200

That is an interesting take (word meant in both languages) on the subject chris-
one of the things that Kai Tahu have found over the past decade is that – education works. Working in the general community (of the South Island mainly, but also north)- works. Making our huiatau/annual meeting…

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 17:51:13 +1200

Paul Williams

Sun, 01 May 2011 17:43:01 +1200

Chris, becoming a republic doesn't necessarily disrupt any obligations under the Treaty, it might transfer them but the reality is that the UK offers no real contribution beyond access to higher courts... oh hang on...

Islander

Sun, 01 May 2011 17:39:30 +1200

I love the way you think you know better than other people here chris – and I’m saying that as patron of the (A)NZ Republican Movement.

Just go check out the Statute of Westminister eh?

Or, possibly, give some sites/references that might support your view?Especially the part that 'the British'…

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 17:34:35 +1200

Make no mistake, it affects the Treaty Rich of Obsevationz. Currently the original signatory (the British) still have a stake in the agreement, removing them entirely will certainly alter the dynamic of the relationship between the parties.

Why would you fire your Guardian Angel?

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 01 May 2011 17:24:32 +1200

I already explained why it did't affect the Treaty upthread at:
http://publicaddress.net/system/topic/3006/?p=211115#post211115

Or see the Republican Movement's explanation here.

chris

Sun, 01 May 2011 17:15:58 +1200

I believe New Zealand’s future can only be as a republic.

….thereby nullifying the Treaty of Waitangi. Bridge burning equipment on standby.

As for NZ becoming a republic, Russell–try living in one for a decade and you’ll soon change your mind…..Give me a hereditary monarch with extremely limited powers any…

Simon Grigg

Sun, 01 May 2011 14:31:29 +1200

I rarely agree with Nick Cohen but this time I'll go along with him:

When the 18th century English dissenter Richard Price, friend of Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, warned that fawning before royalty produced "idolatry as gross and stupid as that of the ancient heathens," he aptly…

Paul Williams

Sun, 01 May 2011 13:17:50 +1200

Lea, Russell's answered the question as I would have. The US republic is a particular arrangement and separates the legislature from the executive in a unique way. We'd not have to, or want to, follow their approach... which is federalist too. My preference for a republic is to simply replace…

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 01 May 2011 13:04:46 +1200

There is no reason why an NZ republic should separate a powerful executive (president/governor and cabinet) from the legislature

In fact, only a minority of republics (such as the USA and France) do this.

Most republics have a titular president with limited powers, with the head of government being…

Russell Brown

Sun, 01 May 2011 11:18:41 +1200

Far better to have a parliamentary democracy in which ministers, including the prime minister, have to answer for their actions to the people's representatives on a daily basis.

We'd be a Parliamentary republic with a mostly ceremonial head of state, like Ireland is.

Adzze

Sun, 01 May 2011 11:12:57 +1200

To the kitsch I add this work of genius.

http://guandongenterprisesltd.com/

Bahaha – and I particularly enjoyed the ornate detailing.

Paul Campbell

Sun, 01 May 2011 10:07:56 +1200

Anyone else think that Key going on about his 'greenstone suit' sounded like he was shilling for a client?

then there's this

Sacha

Sun, 01 May 2011 09:35:52 +1200

Far better to have a parliamentary democracy in which ministers, including the prime minister, have to answer for their actions to the people's representatives on a daily basis.

That's not the opposite of a republic. Changing the nominal head of state doesn't have to mean going the US route. We…

Craig Ranapia

Sun, 01 May 2011 08:41:40 +1200

I can see the argument there, but I'd rather do without a head of state who has to meet a religious qualification — imposed by a foreign Parliament three hundred years ago — that would not only be unjust but illegal to impose on our government.

Lea Barker

Sun, 01 May 2011 04:37:48 +1200

Here is a link that works:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/jan-june11/shieldsbrooks_04-29.html

Lea Barker

Sun, 01 May 2011 04:35:22 +1200

As for NZ becoming a republic, Russell--try living in one for a decade and you'll soon change your mind. There is absolutely nothing good to be said for a form of government that separates a powerful executive (president/governor and cabinet) from the legislature. Far better to have a parliamentary democracy…

Lea Barker

Sun, 01 May 2011 03:58:56 +1200

Craig might particularly like this exchange from PBS Newshour on Friday night between the host and two regular pundits:

JEFFREY BROWN: But what is it about royalty, and particularly British royalty, that grabs so many people, so many Americans?

JEFFREY BROWN: Didn't we throw them off...

DAVID BROOKS: Well, yes.…

Lilith __

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:13:30 +1200

I do wonder why it's taken me so long to cook aloo gobi. I made it for the first time yesterday and it wound up being the best dish of the lot. Simple and seriously delicious. The only way to eat cauliflower, imho.

Aloo Gobi is very tasty. But I…

Steve Parks

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:00:40 +1200

Please, please reassure me that there will be other people here NOT watching. Just when I thought PAS might be a royal wedding-free zone.

I wasn’t intending to watch it myself, but after the Breakers game I switched over to 3 for a “quick look” that ended up lasting till…

recordari

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:00:26 +1200

a very attractive young lady

..like that Liz Hurley..

Are you saying they're not?

;-)

Sacha

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:46:49 +1200

a very attractive young lady

..like that Liz Hurley..

Danielle

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:10:46 +1200

So... what exactly did Key say on the BBC about Kate?

I may have been slightly distracted by waves of powerful retching, but it was something like ".... and of course Kate's a very attractive young lady ..."

Michael Savidge

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:08:08 +1200

So anyway, it all wound up with me and my crazy-assed friends dancing to some funky tunes on the deck at 2.30am, which probably did not impress the neighbours. Sorry neighbours. We just had to boogie.

Ah yes....that damned aloo gobE...goes straight to your feet.

Sacha

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:22:03 +1200

Charles and Camilla

the cause of that tear-wipe in the replayed footage of his wedding to young Di

Graeme Edgeler

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:51:22 +1200

It's a fact that not only have all of Elisabeth Windsor's children's marriages ended in divorce

Uh, Edward and Sophie?

And Charles and Camilla.

Lilith __

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:14:32 +1200

It's a fact that not only have all of Elisabeth Windsor's children's marriages ended in divorce

Uh, Edward and Sophie?

And must we pour scorn on newlyweds for daring to get married? Who knows, it might even work out, they know each other well and seem well matched. They probably…

nzlemming

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:02:14 +1200

John Key let us down too. You don't get many occasions to dress up really fancy, and he declined to take it up

One has become accustomed to being let down by JohnKey

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 15:22:00 +1200

John Key let us down too. You don’t get many occasions to dress up really fancy, and he declined to take it up.

To be fair, the invitation was (by royal wedding standards) downright informal: "Uniform, Morning Coat or Lounge Suit.” While it would have been nice to see him…

3410

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:49:08 +1200

So... what exactly did Key say on the BBC about Kate?

Paul Williams

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:38:01 +1200

Ffion

Is it wrong that I think that’s a lovely name?

Look, Key is simply embodying the standard NZ male abroad experience of being invited somewhere and feeling like an under-dressed clod

Reckon you’re right. Also, and excuse my complete ignorance on these matters, does NZ have many “name” menswear…

Rex Widerstrom

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:28:22 +1200

So The Chaser lads gave up, sadly. Instead we got repeats of their "War On Everything" which relied for its funniness on the events covered being current. Jokes about John Howard... in 2011?

Sandwiched between, though, were the pre-records they'd done to drop into the dull(er) bits of the ceremony,…

Stephen Judd

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:46:10 +1200

Look, Key is simply embodying the standard NZ male abroad experience of being invited somewhere and feeling like an under-dressed clod.

Also, if he were to wear a morning suit and someone got a clear photograph, it would provide a great base for riffing on early 20C capitalist caricatures a…

Russell Brown

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:18:41 +1200

Russell doing a curry from whole spices – now, important question Russell – exactly where do you get the best whole spices from? There’s a local Indian “supermarket” with much things Indian in my neighbourhood, but I didn’t see a whole spice (all ground) anywhere there.

Really? The best place…

Sacha

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:14:52 +1200

McCully probably bullied him into it on the grounds that an ordinary suit would do more for NZ's foreign trade promotion. #righto

Graeme Edgeler

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:13:18 +1200

Sadly, Bronagh Key has let New Zealand down – Julia Gillard was wearing a much sillier hat.

John Key let us down too. You don't get many occasions to dress up really fancy, and he declined to take it up.

Jacqui Dunn

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 12:39:14 +1200

OK well how's this for missing the boat? Better late than never, and it's all Emma's fault because of her blog, which has made me exceedingly guilty about contributing when I'm supposed to be doing other things.

Happy Birthday, Craig, but I thought you were a Leo!

Russell doing a…

Jackie Clark

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:44:01 +1200

I did enjoy all the tweets. You did a fine job.

Danielle

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:39:57 +1200

I loved them. I like people wearing unexpected things. (Insert hashtag about being one of three people on earth who loved Bjork's swan dress here.)

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 11:01:45 +1200

It's a fact that not only have all of Elisabeth Windsor's children's marriages ended in divorce, so did her late sister's. And her own marriage, per Kitty Kelley, involves quite a lot of playing away.

I guess this may have a lot to do with their general wierdness. Expecting to…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:50:34 +1200

I wonder if the British bookmakers are running odds on how long it will last. I have nothing against either of them and expect they'll be especially motivated to keep it real but that's some serious pressure they live under.

Mind you, Wills & Kate seem many times the couple that…

Lilith __

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:19:26 +1200

Fergie’s daughter’s just looked gauche, didn’t they ?

Such a pity. Might have been OK without the moose antlers and the blue trowel.

Grant McDougall

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:11:20 +1200

Fergie's daughter's just looked gauche, didn't they ?

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 09:03:17 +1200

Sadly, Bronagh Key has let New Zealand down — Julia Gillard was wearing a much sillier hat. The ABs will have to win the RWC to erase the shame. :)

Jackie Clark

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 08:44:52 +1200

Well I hope you're all happy with your tweeting and your parties and your curries and your general frivolity. I had a completely bland and disappointing meal with friends and came home to 350 tweets, and everyone having had shitloads more fun than I. Bastards.

Yamis

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 01:31:37 +1200

Intended to tune in for a couple of minutes but in the end the Breakers and Blues absorbed me to the point that I saw .... 0 + 0 + 0 seconds of the wedding. What a shame. I wonder if the British bookmakers are running odds on how long…

Ben Austin

Sat, 30 Apr 2011 01:10:53 +1200

Actually, the fly over by the RAF was pretty neat

Ben Austin

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 23:56:20 +1200

Well, I ended up watching some IPL cricket instead of the wedding. Tomorrow I shall celebrate the Royal Wedding further by heading up north to Yorkshire for the weekend. God bless their majesties!

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 23:43:08 +1200

TV Three had Hilary Barry on the spot being all cheery and John Campbell heading what seemed to be a rather smart and effervescent panel including Jeremy Wells.

Yes, having a good old giggle at Ffion Hague’s broken leg was “smart and effervescent"… if that’s an euphemism for “crass and…

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:27:38 +1200

71-53
#result

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:56:50 +1200

In other news, 57-45
#nospoilers

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:56:09 +1200

smart and effervescent

no guarantee that impression would last :)

Danielle

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:41:54 +1200

Heh. The 'smart and effervescent' panel is driving me slightly mad. (But I often find panels irritating.)

3410

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:18:33 +1200

From the Herald's Breakers vs Taipans live scoring thread:

8:01
[Comment From Wills&Kate:]
come on, we've a busy day planned....

8:07
[Comment From Wills&Kate:]
Wills here, Breakers need to focus on winning each quater and the game will look after itself

8:10
[Comment From Prince Harry:]
Wills where are you?…

bmk

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:00:11 +1200

Breakers are 13 to 5 after the first quarter. Great too not to have to listen to obnoxious Aussie commentators.

When a NZ team is winning I always prefer to listen to Aussie commentators. The taste of schadenfreude can be so sweet. Same reason I enjoyed watching Obama’s victory on…

Geoff Lealand

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:52:05 +1200

Breakers are 13 to 5 after the first quarter. Great too not to have to listen to obnoxious Aussie commentators.

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:50:09 +1200

Accidentally encountered local tv coverage. TV One had their botoxed chief cheerleader braying from London about the weather. Endured all of 20 seconds before it got to me. TV Three had Hilary Barry on the spot being all cheery and John Campbell heading what seemed to be a rather smart…

Ethan Tucker

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:48:49 +1200

Top TV pre-royal wedding highlight: Jimmy Carr reciting one-liners on 10 O'Clock Live last night whilst dressed as Diana, wearing angel wings and floating on a fluffy cloud in heaven. Particularly the line about it being 'car-crash television', and the usual "If you see William, give my love to his…

Biobbs

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:30:00 +1200

Charlie's getting married at last
To a pretty girl without a past
Her Majesty's so happy
The Duke's a happy chappy
'Cause Charlie's getting married at last

Oh dear lord, was that the one with the oh-so-classy lines "Lady Di, Lady Di, said stick it in your eye/The only guy…

Robert Urquhart

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:22:30 +1200

I'm ignoring the royal wedding except as a historical footnote, but some quirk of fate has me tonight working on an (unrelated) wedding-focused website site based in the UK :-/

Sue

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:53:30 +1200

i shall be listening to the jay and silent bob commentary on ustream

Idiot Savant

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:47:33 +1200

[me not mentioning LARP :-)]

We tolerate all sorts of abhorrent things in fiction – murder, rape, genocide, feudalism – because they lead to interesting stories. That doesn't mean they have any place in the real world.

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:21:30 +1200

It's actually quite refreshing to see that on PAS, the indifference/hysteria split

I like to think I'm neither hysterical nor indifferent about this one. If I had to pick which I'm closest to, of course it's indifferent. If it's a stink wedding, I'm sure I'll change channels or put on…

Brenda Leeuwenberg

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:13:59 +1200

I'm going to stay in and watch The Hollow Men, which I started watching last night. It's sufficiently horrifying to be recommended viewing for all New Zealanders!

The Hollow Men

Go on, stream it from your iPad via your AppleTV and get the full screen mind-blowing wonder of…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:07:48 +1200

Sounds all very tasty.

We're going with homemade pizza, probably ham and pineapple (I kind of like knowing every Italian is in pain as a result of that pizza combo). Oh and I'm planning to open some Ata Rangi to celebrate the basketball.

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:44:27 +1200

It's the coverage every night on the news for the last two weeks and in the papers. Truly awful journalism, if it can even be called that.

Wouldn't know. Didn't watch it. Alex Jones was funny though.

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:42:57 +1200

Did the chana gosht from whole spices, the butter chicken from a paste (+ ground cashews). The aloo gobi smells fantastic. Got to fry a bunch of paneer soon.

Khyber Spice has great samosa for $1.50 each and big naans, 4 for $3/50. Also, a gloriously intimidating-looking garlic pickle and…

webweaver

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:29:11 +1200

I shan’t be watching any of it because I just.don’t.care.

When I became a Kiwi citizen we all had to swear allegiance to the Queen as part of the oath you take – which amused me hugely, as I’d not had to do that before – being born in England…

Rob Hosking

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:45:24 +1200

..b.y a group called the Men of Harlech. Its chorus went:

Charlie's getting married at last
To a pretty girl without a past

Modified, at my school, to 'Charlie's got his end away at last...'

Which showed a certain crude naievete, I suppose.

James Butler

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:28:09 +1200

fools thinking peasantry is romantic

[me not mentioning LARP :-)]

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:28:08 +1200

I agree that NZ's destiny lies with becoming a republic, but it will be a headache to get there. Do we just cross out the words "Governor-General" on everything and replace them with the word "President"? Do we directly elect the president? What would be his or her powers? At…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:17:38 +1200

the Treaty is a deal with the Crown

This is a common idea and one that is totally wrong, in the sense of the "crown" being the British Royal Family.

The "crown" in this case, as in others, is simply shorthand for the state. New Zealand has never been a…

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:16:47 +1200

Hum... I see a rather interesting argument that the British Government and the Windsors owes the Catholic Church compensation (and 465 years of interest) for goods and property alienated (or destroyed) during the Dissolution of the Monasteries.

Yeah, but then someone's going to start pointing out some of the interesting…

Idiot Savant

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:01:44 +1200

It’s not a projection. A VisitBritain study found that tourists spent more than £500 million visiting attractions associated with the British monarchy and its history in 2009. There were nearly a million visits to Windsor Castle alone. I don’t think there’s any doubt that royal tourism is a major earner…

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:04:59 +1200

The more I see of "ew, god, how could you" the more I want to get out all my grandmother's coronation badges and drink some fucking Pimms.

It's okay! I'll throw myself in front of you so it's me that gets totally judged and not you. Just keep running.

Simon Grigg

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:58:38 +1200

Ooooo hard one. I doubt a King would be into selling off the family silver, that's what makes him King.

There was a great Larry King some years back – he had the Duke of Kent on and was clearly suffering from the sort of royal awe only Americans can…

Andre Alessi

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:57:42 +1200

The fabulous, extravagant MajelaZeZeDiamond, YouTube queen of dancehall songs about vaginas,

Of "Girls, Come And See My Vagina?" fame?

Edit: It appears not, although I don't know whether that makes anything better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3zLR2WhV4o

Also this is now a Friday music thread!

Jean Hughes

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:51:06 +1200

well we are having a wee party with fish n chips, eaton mess and pimms and I am really really excited about it all . Watching it live via UKTV (naturally) and commenting on frocks, jocks and shocks is perfect for a Friday nights entertainement.
I am not a royalist…

Simon Grigg

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:44:56 +1200

This isn't an argument for keeping the monarchy in Britain, just noting that the public investment in running it is relatively modest when you take into account the commercial return

That £37m is just the civil list.

The Guardian did a wider analysis a few years back – which I…

Jacqui Craig

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:44:38 +1200

I didn't really have much of desire to attend a party until I came across Boden's Royal Wedding bingo cards – I might play for myself and the cat tonight.

http://digitalcatalogue.bodenusa.com/1Y4d95f477ea437012.cde

uroskin

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:43:23 +1200

I see a rather interesting argument that the British Government and the Windsors owes the Catholic Church compensation (and 465 years of interest) for goods and property alienated (or destroyed) during the Dissolution of the Monasteries. They got compensated in children.

Pete Sime

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:21:49 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw

Lilith __

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:20:44 +1200

To the kitsch I add this work of genius.

http://guandongenterprisesltd.com/

Ummm...isn't that Harry?

Rich Lock

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:13:36 +1200

Please, please reassure me that there will be other people here NOT watching. Just when I thought PAS might be a royal wedding-free zone.

Oh God, they got Russell! And Ben!

We must stay awake, Geoff! Whatever you do, don't fall asleep! Don't fall asleep! They're here already! You're next!…

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:53:30 +1200

we are very different people

still top intellectual nerds, but

Neil Graham

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:52:22 +1200

To the kitsch I add this work of genius.

http://guandongenterprisesltd.com/

Fooman

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:39:17 +1200

. But the various palaces and land (5000 acres of Windsor Great Park for instance, worth perhaps GBP10bln) are clearly the property of the UK taxpayer, and should either revert or be paid for.

And checking the crown estate website, it is part of their 6.6 billion pound asset list,…

Jackie Clark

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:32:01 +1200

Please, please reassure me that there will be other people here NOT watching. Just when I thought PAS might be a royal wedding-free zone

Before a couple of days ago, Geoff, I would have sworn up and down that I wouldn't be watching it. But I have a dinner engagement…

Danielle

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:28:51 +1200

hours of turgid dress-ogling

I think it must now be noted that we are very different people, Sacha. :)

On the other hand:

The more I see of "ew, god, how could you" the more I want to get out all my grandmother's coronation badges and drink some fucking Pimms.

…

Robyn Gallagher

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:27:34 +1200

So, around the time of Charles and Di's wedding, there was a novelty song called "Charlie's Getting Married at Last" by a group called the Men of Harlech. Its chorus went:

__Charlie's getting married at last
To a pretty girl without a past
Her Majesty's so happy
The Duke's a…

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:22:14 +1200

drink some fucking Pimms

Now you're talking. I similarly just don't care much either way, though I'm definitely averse to putting myself through hours of turgid dress-ogling and horse-spotting.

3410

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:22:09 +1200

One wonders what they did before they discovered coitus? Fissioned?

Something about the mother sitting on a chair that had recently been vacated by the father, if memory serves.

Emma Hart

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:19:45 +1200

This is IMHO the funniest item of royal wedding memorabilia:

Brilliant. Though, given:

Includes a collectable portrait of the Royal Couple as they might appear on their wedding day

I think William and Kate might have... I was going to say "got off lightly".

I am a bit tired of…

Danielle

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:13:56 +1200

If a woman changes her surname to that of her husband, should she be prepared to sometimes be referred to Mrs [husband name]?

As someone to whom this happens even though I never fucking changed my name in the first place, may I say: NO.

You have to call people…

Lilith __

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:12:46 +1200

One wonders what they did before they discovered coitus? Fissioned?

They may have been too polite to mention it. :-)

Paul Rowe

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:10:52 +1200

Looks big enough for easy conversion into a coffin.

http://www.afgrant.com/images/kissonline/kasket.jpg

Geoff Lealand

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:10:41 +1200

But Geoff: as an Associate Professor of Media Studies, surely it’s your duty to watch the coverage?

I will watch the Breakers and then go out to see In A Better World (a highly recommended Danish film). That is doing my duty.

When they televise the Royal Divorce, I might…

Robyn Gallagher

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:09:59 +1200

The Prime Minister's wife will be there as "Mrs John Key" (better than "John Key +1", I guess).

I had a good look at the invite list and have figured out the naming conventions. It's all down to whether the partner of the dignitary is a woman who has taken…

James Griffin

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:09:12 +1200

Russell, when you say you'll be conducting "a sort of telepresence experiment" at your house, is that like what we used to call in my day "channel-surfing", except with the fun of ending up on a random channel taken out? And is 'telepresence' an actual word?

Fooman

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:09:10 +1200

Also, that Civil List number is a bit bogus. It excludes the income from various lands, including the Duchy of Cornwall, that the royals insist are personally held, but which were acquired through their positions as monarch and could reasonably be held to be state property.

As far as I…

Islander

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:08:25 +1200

England boasts some of the finest lovemaking in the world, with a tradition of coitus going back generations

One wonders what they did before they discovered coitus? Fissioned?

O, and Geoff – wedding and RWC-free zone at my place...

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:07:59 +1200

Only the English could find dingers romantic.

Danielle

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:01:53 +1200

Yes, I actually guffawed at that, Lilith!

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:57:38 +1200

with a tradition of coitus going back generations

roflnui

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:57:05 +1200

surely it's your duty to watch

I did wonder

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:55:20 +1200

Please, please reassure me that there will be other people here NOT watching. Just when I thought PAS might be a royal wedding-free zone.

But Geoff: as an Associate Professor of Media Studies, surely it's your duty to watch the coverage? ;-)

Sacha

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:52:41 +1200

please reassure me that there will be other people here NOT watching

Gouging my eyes out with a souvenir teaspoon seems more likely. Well, unless someone were to invite me to a party, naturally.

Lilith __

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:50:40 +1200

This is IMHO the funniest item of royal wedding memorabilia:

"Founded in London, England's historic capital, Crown Jewels Condoms of Distinction is the proud purveyor of an exclusive range of heritage love sheaths.

England boasts some of the finest lovemaking in the world, with a tradition of coitus going back…

recordari

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:50:11 +1200

Geoff, you are safe in my respect. I'm watching the Breakers become the first NZ team to win an Australian sports league in 15 years of trying and then going to see David Kilgour & the Heavy Eights.

anth

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:50:06 +1200

The Herald seems (unusually) to have uncovered a few slight overestimates around the Rugby World Cup (TM) for instance.
The RWC being the "third biggest sporting event in the world" is apparently for cumulative attendance at a competition between national teams, and for the 2.2 million who went to matches…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:49:10 +1200

Hum... I see a…

Geoff Lealand

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:46:53 +1200

Please, please reassure me that there will be other people here NOT watching. Just when I thought PAS might be a royal wedding-free zone.

recordari

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:42:39 +1200

Has to be done, doesn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeP220xx7Bs

And of course, this... dweam within a dweam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF9O6fne6nE

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:39:25 +1200

I don't think that figure bears any rigorous relation to the value in tourist dollars of having a monarch that's included in the UK constitution.

Did the revenues from stately homes drop when most of their inhabitants lost their right to sit in the Lords? Do less people go to…

Danielle

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:35:56 +1200

That’s fucking horrifying.

Yes, but in 30 years it's going to be kitschily AWESOME.

Robert Fox

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:35:10 +1200

Fortunately, the actual coverage will be direct from the BBC
Might be worth watching to see Prince Charles’ favourite BBC royal correspondent Nicholas Witchell manages to endear himself to the Heir of Sorrows again. Or you could just watch this piece of Morrisey Derek Jarman 80’s brilliance one more time…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:33:27 +1200

and thus isn't, in itself, a great argument for abolishing the monarchy.

Word...That's neolib thinking, abolishing it entirely on a cost/benefit calc. Surely the reason would be much deeper than that? Something to do with self-determination, multiculturalism etc. The great irony for NZ is that Maori leadership would most likely…

3410

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:32:54 +1200

My work is done.

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:27:14 +1200

Served from this, presumably.

That's fucking horrifying.

3410

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:21:15 +1200

And yet tonight, we'll be having a few friends over for a curry (proper British), a few drinks...

Served from this, presumably.

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:14:55 +1200

Yay for Jezebel: how to make your own royal wedding fascinator.

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:11:46 +1200

More practical reason for giving it a miss – birthday brunch

Happy birthday, Craig. Enjoy!

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:11:01 +1200

I shall be watching, because I enjoy my own poorly informed snarky commentary on frocks and hats.

Tell me you'll tweet those.

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:10:24 +1200

There has been at least one survey where most of the tourists said they’d have visited those castles etc regardless of whether the royal family were still treated as such. For at least some of those sites getting rid of the royals would be an improvement from a tourist point…

Danielle

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:08:48 +1200

I shall be watching, because I enjoy my own poorly informed snarky commentary on frocks and hats.

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:08:00 +1200

I won’t be watching tonight as my lukewarm republicanism overrides my desire to consume royal kitsch or watch British eccentricity mediated by the terrible presenters on TV1 and 3.

More practical reason for giving it a miss – birthday brunch, which will be so much more enjoyable if I'm awake…

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:07:47 +1200

I won’t be watching tonight as my lukewarm republicanism overrides my desire to consume royal kitsch or watch British eccentricity mediated by the terrible presenters on TV1 and 3.

Fortunately, the actual coverage will be direct from the BBC (on TVNZ) and ITV (TV3).

Seeing Springtime London in glorious Hi…

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:05:06 +1200

A relevant question would be what fraction of that money would still be spent in the absence of the monarchy? People still visit the palace at Versailles, after all.

Correct, and they'd still visit the Tower of London. But look at the ubiquity of the British royal family in the…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:03:56 +1200

whose side would you be on in battle between Good King William and the prospect of the Evil President Brash/Banks etc?

Ooooo hard one. I doubt a King would be into selling off the family silver, that's what makes him King.

Edit: King Billy is hardly going to sell off…

anth

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:01:23 +1200

There has been at least one survey where most of the tourists said they'd have visited those castles etc regardless of whether the royal family were still treated as such. For at least some of those sites getting rid of the royals would be an improvement from a tourist point…

Robert Fox

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:00:45 +1200

I won’t be watching tonight as my lukewarm republicanism overrides my desire to consume royal kitsch or watch British eccentricity mediated by the terrible presenters on TV1 and 3. Seeing Springtime London in glorious Hi Def certainly has appeal though so I may take a sneak peek between sporting events.…

James Butler

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:54:47 +1200

It's not a projection. A VisitBritain study found that tourists spent tourists spent more than £500 million visiting attractions associated with the British monarchy and its history in 2009. There were nearly a million visits to Windsor Castle alone. I don't think there's any doubt that royal tourism is a…

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:52:14 +1200

I’d go into town for the spectacle, if only I wasn’t allergic to bunting. Oh well.

To the pub with you then, sir!

Ethan Tucker

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:50:52 +1200

I'd go into town for the spectacle, if only I wasn't allergic to bunting. Oh well.

Russell Brown

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:45:57 +1200

I realize that that kind of economics … is a bit of an article of faith here, but there are those that disagree.

The Herald seems (unusually) to have uncovered a few slight overestimates around the Rugby World Cup (TM) for instance.

It’s not a projection. A VisitBritain study found…

BenWilson

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:41:09 +1200

I agree Russell. I'm not a monarchist at all, but that doesn't mean there isn't a sense of occasion around a royal wedding. It's still a wedding, and it's between famous people, and it's going to be a massive affair. That's watchworthy by itself. It doesn't hurt that, at least…

Graeme Edgeler

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:39:19 +1200

Middleton/Mountbatten-Windsor nuptials

Middleton/Wales, I thought?

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:37:43 +1200

The Herald seems (unusually) to have uncovered a few slight overestimates around the Rugby World Cup (TM) for instance.

As Hamish Keith has rather acidly noted elsewhere, what a delightful change from the time when the mildest question about the assumption these kinds of figures are always riddled with was…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:34:54 +1200

It's been particularly amusing watching the American media lose their collective tiny minds over the Middleton/Mountbatten-Windsor nuptials. It's like that Revolution thingy never happened...

the last-minute restraint of The Chaser’s planned alternative commentary on the wedding

Would have been nice, though, if they'd actually stuck to the issue (the BBC…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:31:13 +1200

The Civil List costs the British taxpayer £37 million annually, but the royals, by some estimates, bring in about half a billion pounds a year in “royalty tourism” revenues

I realize that that kind of economics __ (hey, we spent a few million, but it’ll bring in billions in tourism,…

Public Address

Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:31:13 +1200

Discussion from blog post.