he bought up the mafia connections of I think it was warners who were bought up by a funeral home or some such story.

Steve Ross..Kinney..mafia, carparks and funeral homes. They bought Warner / 7Arts in about 68 and then gobbled up Atlantic and Elektra.

Universal has mob links in…

oh and simon if you're still there, peter hated the 4 majors as much as you.

hold on Rob...I've never said that and it's a huge misrepresentation. But I'm realistic about what they are and how they work. And much of that is not pretty but it's part of their…

There's a choice: play gigs, experience that peculiar bonding you get with fellow band members, feel that curious mixture of love and antipathy you get from an audience…

excerpt

People can download virtually any music for free these days, arguing that it’s OK, bands can make money by touring, instead. Which is like casually suggesting to the owner of an off license, after he’s spotted you nicking a bottle of…

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/radiohead-sales-show-fans-loyalty-to-illegal-sites-884239.htmlthe independent uk article

the nothing done about it yet might refer to internet providers being required to police content.

guess the honest box model ain't…

UK: tougher piracy laws, blacklists of pirates

Six of the UK's biggest net providers have agreed a plan with the music industry to tackle piracy online.

The deal, negotiated by the government, will see hundreds of…

labs produce multitudes of inventions every year and the tipping point on this was the fact that the clients that were vital to it's success knew from research that there was a resale value in the enforced obsolescence of the prior format.

acknowledged but not quite the same as "majors…

Of course the improvement in technology was a major reason for CDs. And of course it was pushed by tech companies, the Sonys and Philips, who were dead keen to sell us another hi-fi system- yeah, better in some ways, but very pricey in 1982.
The majors were not keen,…

Howard Knopf, a Canadian lawyer is suggesting the torturers at Guantanamo Bay may have to pay royalties for the music they play to make people go mad.

Babylon, the mild-mannered folk hit by David Gray, is allegedly one of the most popular torture songs at Guantánamo.…

It WILL make a different to what gets recorded and how it gets recorded- and why.

a friend recently commented on the impact that the death of john peel will have on the shape of music. no the fall = no pavement?
not having listened to uk radio for a…

I don't really care about sound quality...

That's cosin this day and age its predominantly reasonable, but why not have cd quality if its available.
128 bit mp3 is passable but compare it to 34 or 68 bit and you'd start to care. grainy and gritty.
look what our parents…

does creative allow for full res .wav files?

This is where the audiophile boys back slowly and suspiciously away from me: I don't really care about sound quality...

I would have stuck with Creative, but no one else can compete with that 160G of storage!

does creative allow for full res .wav files?.

I think I looked at an iriver years ago and it recorded in 44/16 and played back 44/16 files. obviously hard drive space becomes an…

Quicktime / iTunes fucking up both PCs' and Macs' CD drives is much documented online.

any word on what's causing it?
I have'nt experienced any such problems but I don't doubt they exist. if it did happen to me I'd be straight down to the shop I purchased my laptop…

Me, I find iTunes fills me with irrational rage. Always trying to play every CD, copy stuff, sync up this or that, wanting to link to i-store USA or trying to update to the latest version.

Word. I recently, reluctantly bought an iPod (I would have stuck with Creative, but…

Hasn't it always been near-impossible in NZ? Of the NZ musicians playing gigs around town and being played on the radio, what percentage have day jobs? 95%?

tell that to the nz music industry commission. they blew $5 mill on trying to establish a viable industry and all they had…

just arguing about the role drm- already, it seems, dropping out of the equation- has to play in whatever the road forward is.

I'm not really arguing about the bad vibe drm has caused, its obvious from irate comments all over the show.
simon's cd drive for instance. but I…

Me, I find iTunes fills me with irrational rage. Always trying to play every CD, copy stuff, sync up this or that, wanting to link to i-store USA or trying to update to the latest version.

And you forget..wrecking my CD drive. There are acres of web pages and forums…

But in NZ at any rate, CDs were sold for $4-10 MORE than vinyl.

Actually it doubled overnight. List price of an LP in 85 was $14.99 and a CD was $29.99 or $32.99 depending on the label. It was a huge royalty bonus for all labels too, especailly the…

Musicians may well stop recording music to make a living- because that may become impossible

Hasn't it always been near-impossible in NZ? Of the NZ musicians playing gigs around town and being played on the radio, what percentage have day jobs? 95%?

33 pages of people telling you that is my evidence, yer honour!

me

33 pages of periphery discussion

hopefully you read more in it than that robbie.
if anything i'd hope some people saw the issue in colours other than the black and white its tempting to dismiss it…

Rob, you don't seem to get the technical reasons drm is not feasible. I'll leave that.

:) don't I?
but if I did 'get' it would there wouldn't be 33 pages of periphery discussion now would there?
You don't need to tell me how easy it is to get cracks…

I'll try and remember that book on the recording industry's business history..it's a fascinating, if dry,…

best leave it.

you're bored and avoiding work just like me mate :)

can you flick me some links to this theory of replacement thing. I just read through the wiki entry on CD specs and development and they didn't say anywhere that it was motivated by the desire to…

I have to admit your story is definitely a much more exciting way of looking at it

Flawed idea or not Rob, it's the truth. Its hardly a controversial argument to make over the past two decades..until now it seems when you seem to be trying to re-write what is…

That was it's key selling point to the record industry and without them it was a non-event.

you got to remember that at the time the recording industry had already started its move to digital technology well before the compact disc was a twinkle in anyone record label exec's eye.…

and nothing to do with the advancement in technology? which is what you're saying.

No both but it was a dead duck until the idea that catalogues would be replaced was added to the mix. That was it's key selling point to the record industry and without them it was…

was a key driving force behind the CD's development and acceptance by the record industry.

and nothing to do with the advancement in technology? which is what you're saying.

I'd go as far as to speak for Trevor Reekie, and Roger Sheherd on that as well. Those guys were all thinking about the next new record they could make, never the old one they could re release.

You are confusing indies and majors again but I'd be suprised if…

This is backed up by…

Hardly an academic wish, Rob...go and track down just about any issue of Music Week, Billboard or Cashbox from the era (I subscribed to the last of those) the replacement philosophy was widely discussed in all of those

yeah I get that point and they can widely discuss it all…

It's an inarguable fact and to be honest, I've never heard it questioned before.

ok I'm not questioning it was 'an' issue/feature/factor in format change, I'm challenging the notion that it was THE factor, or even a driving force. logic and reason says it was a by product that was…

Maybe when CD came out.

yes, when the cd first started its reign.
not now though as you note.
minimum 24 bit and up to 192khz which is based on the 48khz standard. 4 x 48 = 192.
I personally think a conversion to a multiple of 44 from a…

Maybe when CD came out.

Today I believe the state of the art for digital studio stuff is 96kHz sample rate with 24 bit samples, right? CD is nowhere near that (44kHz, 16 bit samples).

Dogs can hear the difference...

Taking your last argument even further, there would…

sometimes a rock is just a rock.

there may well have been fringe benefits to putting forward a new format but…

its common sense, regardless of what picture some academic wishes to paint over the top of the events of history.

Hardly an academic wish, Rob...go and track down just about any issue of Music Week, Billboard or Cashbox from the era (I subscribed to the last of those) the replacement…

I'm suprised you are questioning any of this, it's not really obscure information

I'm disputing it cos it implies that some shady group of suits got together and decided to make the medium of CDs cos they were bored with making new album on vinyl, instead of the much simpler…

The plan was to kill the vinyl market overnight and then use the new players as a lever to resell all that pre-CD stuff to the same folks that had already bought it. And it largely worked.

and it would have worked too if it hadn't been for those pesky…

simon has a legitimate reason under the consumer guarantees act to return his purchase for a fully functioning one, or seek a refund. there are perfectly good laws already in effect to back him up on that one. no conspiracy or hatin' necessary.

Just checking to find out where I…

Most car CD players do the same thing in order to deal with the bumpiness problem.

I wish. My piece of shit cd player which isn't that old or shitty, doesn't appear to have any such clever trickery going on, it jumps on any and all bumps (and unfortunately in…

A "conventional" CD player, as envisaged when the format was launched, runs the laser past the music in real time, extracts a stream of bits and plays that as sound. Bumps and scratches either interrupt the stream (bad) or move the head…

Before long, of course, they remembered that they actually needed customers to pay them money ...

or,before long they actually realised that their technical experts had fucked up and that they needed to fix the problem by either getting copy protection that works and doesn't fuck the whole thing up.…

All their tunes come with Windows Media DRM, which imposes various rules on their use, requires online authorisation for them to be moved to another device, and most of all doesn't work on a Mac.

thanks for that clarification Russell.
so essentially you are trying to run your 91 octane…

are you sure its copy protection thats stopping it being playedin your car stereo. as an engineer I deal with these issues for my work. I burn cds on some burners and they won't play in car stereos, others will.

there is no reason through copy protection that a cd…

Selling people the things they thought they already owned is a cornerstone of the industry

what do you mean by cornerstone.
are you implying music labels in general get into the business of making and releasing music because they want to sell people a product they already own? you're an…

russell can you give me some more technical info on your vodafone issues as per an earlier question to you. I've no experience of the faults in their system so can't offer technical critique till someone does outline a real world example.
Cheers

All their tunes come with Windows Media…

the fucking thing had copyright protection on it and wouldn't play on that or my car.

are you sure its copy protection thats stopping it being playedin your car stereo. as an engineer I deal with these issues for my work. I burn cds on some burners and they won't…

The development of the compact disc was driven by the philosophy of replacement. It's been a cornerstone of the industry for decades.

and there I was as a consumer thinking it gave me a better delivery system than a 12 inch vinyl recording prone to scratching and not very portable…

Apart from all that; totally legit.

allowing for common sense though russell.
if copy right owners were opposing format shifting so they could make some extra dosh off you by making you buy a new format copy then we'd see policing and prosecution for breech of it well before now,…

why we haven't seen any law suits suing people who transferred their vinyl to cd and mp3. has anyone been prosecuted for transfering their cds to mp3 yet? its legal isn't it?

Only since the most recent Copyright Amendment Bill finally blessed format-shifting — until this year it was illegal…

DRM is not terribly helpful in this regard.

it doesn't have to be unhelpful either. its just software locks, you can port software ownership to new platforms now. I think its fair to expect that to be applicable to future platforms, in the future, but not to all platforms now.…

What's an acceptable percentage of users who can use the DRM content they paid for versus users who paid but get squat?

hold your horses sam, I'm just waiting for some more info from russell be forgoing any further.
I would sat that there is a zero percentage of failure…

The music you buy could commit you to that one player forever. Which given how fast technology is moving in this area is pretty unrealistic.

with all due respect kyle perhaps you and I shouldn't engage in conversation kyle, you remember what happened last time.

your points however are flawed.…

do you think it is just your computer they won't play on or is it all computers, so all people downloading from these sources can't play them on computers?

What's an acceptable percentage of users who can use the DRM content they paid for versus users who paid but get…

can you see why people might not want to buy music that can only work on a particular system which they then become locked into?

isn't that what we have been doing with CD (only playable on a cd compatible player), Vinyl (only playable on a turntable or with a…

If only. If I download DRMd music from Vodafone or Digirama to my computer, it doesn't play on my computer ...

are you saying all files downloaded from vodafone and digiama do not play on your computer or occasional ones, and do you think it is just your computer they…

Ah, but the reason we largely have two kinds of hydrocarbon-burning cars (diesel and petrol) is because those two fuels have been very convenient for several decades, and thus carmakers have an incentive to produce vehicles to a shared standard.

Also the fuel you put in your car only commits…

if you're downloading music with drm in it and you download it to your computer and it doesn't play on your ipod (itunes) or Zune (what ever they use) then you're buying the wrong product.

If only. If I download DRMd music from Vodafone or Digirama to my computer, it…

if you're downloading music with drm in it and you download it to your computer and it doesn't play on your ipod (itunes) or Zune (what ever they use) then you're buying the wrong product.

its as sill as saying I bought diesel and it doesn't work in my regular…

if you pay for a download its playable on the platform you down load it on.

Don Christie said

That is also incorrect. Try again.

But even were to to be right, consider this, if your main music system is not connected to…

I'm sure both the Zune owners will be well pissed off with that ;)

Hahaha, I thought that myself, I've never even seen a shop that sells them.

wasn't russell's original indignation re drm that he couldn't transfer his files between platforms?
I guess we can assume he's zune owner…

zune is installing a feature that will block unauthorised copyrighted video material from that player.
apple is still refusing to co-operate with blocking copyright material for itunes, although I assume they could do just that.

article

Hitler's personal record collection found, after over 60 years. The most astonishing fact about the records — essentially Hitler’s “Best of . . .” collections — is the presence of Jewish performers. Among the recordings is a Tchaikovsky concerto performed by the virtuoso Polish…

and a commodity too.

heh, we could keep twisting this forever.

well to be fair I hardly think categorising music and entertainment based films as information is accurate. They are quite different from the the news and weather. they represent skill talent and investment not intended for free distribution. like…

back to Robbery, his old mates the BPI stand up in his defence:

sam, I think you're trying to make a conversation here and I'm amuse, I really am, but my original reason for chipping in on this issue was to draw attention to the fact that people ill skilled…

its time to take your corners:

in Robberys corner esquire magazine:

Anyone Seen My $4.2 Billion?

__People didn't stop buying albums because they were philosophically opposed to how the rock business operated, and they didn't stop buying albums because the Internet is changing the relationship between…

They don't know that.

yep, they kinda do, there have been several peaks in sales in short periods after listings on certain private tracker sites. Its pretty easily measurable.
not that i am saying its the answer, but its not all rape and pillage out there. in fact its almost…

they know it will actually lead to more sales. its not the final point, but its getting better.

They don't know that. how many of your friends have stopped buy music altogether.
I'll tell you my friends have and they're not all evil drug snorting shoplifters. They're just normal people…

dubber didn't offer insight into anything but the one side of his argument.

he did, and a lot more than brag, no disrespect to billy.

there are a LOT of positives in this new world, while we are working out how to earn from it we may as well embrace…

and a different perspective to mr Bragg, with actual insight into HOW some goals may actually be achieved in this new environment

dubber didn't offer insight into anything but the one side of his argument. he has no answers to income stream, just that artists shouldn't worry,
I think that…

it aint over till its over folks,

more proof:

__CARPHONE WAREHOUSE refuses to cut off music pirates
4 Apr 2008

Carphone Warehouse will become the first UK internet provider to reject the music industry's plans to crack down on customers who download music…

Fighting for the little guy

this appears to be quite popular:

:senuti : its itunes backwards

of course, there are a few people out there who use alternatives to ipods.....

so you really weren't bent over a barrel as far as options go then.

no, but at the time PolyGram were on a buying spree. They'd bought Island, Go-Beat, Motown, A&M (which they bought for 500million and then simply closed it down..it was about the catalogue) and hundreds of smaller labels…

No, no problem getting a distro,

so you really weren't bent over a barrel as far as options go then.

Re your back catalogue. why were you having problems getting a deal with distribution for it? hell I've even been offered distro deals for my shit and none of them asked for ownership.

No, no problem getting a distro, it's just that I was made an offer. I think they…

There were a couple of bands from the 80s who tried to get their masters back from Universal last year in the US. Never issued on CD, and never sold, but got a resounding no.

yeah, comsat angels on polydor. having real problems getting their stuff available, but it did…

They're still in the same game, making money from distributing music. none of them are going to take a loss for an artist, or else they won't be in business long. leave that to the small labels and artists.

No they are not, one is a making money situation as…

I'm not sure how they'd take your suggestion that they walk away from that.

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm saying if you paid for your recordings then you own them. if they paid for them then they own them.
There are multiple cases of labels relinquishing ownership of masters. When…

if you think a major is gonna sign an international deal with an act that doesn't include those things then you are wiping away 100 years of recorded history.

sorry, you lost me there.
major label international record deal?

firstly I don't make the distinction between the big boys and…

So Mr Castle is saying that for the privilege of having a publicist, you should pay over all your income and hand over all master copyrights?

I didn't read that anywhere in his comments.
it would depend on what deal and your contribution to the cake as to how much…

Trent clearly needs to hire both a manager and a…

Don't miss lessons Radiohead, Trent Reznor offer

on Trent Reznor's recording and release of honesty box album for artist saul williams

A record company can afford to make bad bets once in a while, said Chris Castle, a music…

With all due respect to musicians, I put it to you that more kiwi's are negatively affected by this Supermarket duopoly than music piracy.

good thing its not a competition between supermarkets and piracy then.
personally I liked the big fresh chain and did notice and resent them being bought…

are there really only 2 chains?

Yes, there's Progressive Enterprises who own Foodtown, Woolworths, and Countdown; and Foodstuffs NZ who own New World, Pak n Save, and Four Square.

Progressive were able to buy the Woolworths chain because they convinced the Commerce Commission that a duopoly would NOT be created because…

The sooner I can download lasagne to my iPod the better, I say.

interesting details on produce there.I didn't know it was so marfia.
are there really only 2 chains? fresh choice, woolworth, pack n save, count down, new world, 4 square, super value, some obviously owned by the same…

about acts that had never recouped and hence not been paid a cent

yeah and you being one of those guys that makes records and knows the costs and losses understand why some of em don't get any money, and the plus side for those people is they don't have…

I wonder what percentage of acts never saw a cent from the labels system.

I think you misunderstand me on this point, i'm not pro label,
I'm saying laxed attitude to piracy based on resentment of the old system is clouding the issue.
all levels are hurt by it, and…

only one?
I can point you to hundreds that would have broken even who haven't in the current climate reputedly healthy or not.

I wonder what percentage of acts never saw a cent from the labels system. There was a good thread on the velvet Rope last year about acts…

reasonably extensive actually as I have several joint venture deals, am consulting on recording contracts in 4 countries and I talk to people all over the world in the recording industry daily..does that count?

sure does,
I consult with artists on a daily basis, extensively discuss how their making their…

But as I said Rob, this is going around in circles...I'm happy to leave it.

come on mate, page 30 is just over the next hill.

chat when you feel like it though, as you may have noticed I took some real world time at the end of last week,…

Paul McGuinness..no I'm talking about industry response..commentators, music industry forums and the like. It was fairly dismissive to my eyes.

I saw lots of people saying don't like it but I can see where he's coming from. I did see people being dismissive but they were from the why pay…

One NZ musician I know

only one?
I can point you to hundreds that would have broken even who haven't in the current climate reputedly healthy or not.

because vastly more music is being made

not necessarily a good thing, as I'm sure you're well aware. some really really bad stuff clogging the circuits that should never have got out of someones head let alone their bedroom and into the wider world.

That said the concept of label…

although I'm not sure of your current experience in it as the whole game has changed in the last 3 years.

reasonably extensive actually as I have several joint venture deals, am consulting on recording contracts in 4 countries and I talk to people all over the world in the…

it was a joke but I guess there is some substance in the claim that downloading is killing music is the rough equivalent to the claim that Saddam has WMDS. It's hot air to further an end

you're comparing a businessman's comments on the industry he works in, for a…

gee you really don't like mr McGuinness do you. was it just this speech or have you had a life long loathing for him?

a) it was a joke but I guess there is some substance in the claim that downloading is killing music is the rough equivalent to the…

I hear Paul McGuiness has evidence that Steve Jobs has been sourcing yellowcakeMP3s in Niger.

gee you really don't like mr McGuinness do you. was it just this speech or have you had a life long loathing for him?

so everyone is happy again...it worked

I think this is more of a case of somene trying to tag their music onto the name of radiohead in order to expand their own career and sell records, and radiohead were obviously not keen to have someone else profit from their brand…

yesterday iTunes said it would not recognise the file...

I have come across files that will not load to itunes that say they are mp3 files. they will however load to quicktime and export as a .mov, which will then load to itunes and can be converted to mp3.
not…

What version of itunes are you on? I downloaded some live Moxy Fruvous to 7.6 on my mac on Friday and they imported fine – file > import from itunes.

On a Mac, it's easiest to just to select all the files and drag them from the Finder to the…

Can't start a War On Anything without one!

I hear Paul McGuiness has evidence that Steve Jobs has been sourcing yellowcakeMP3s in Niger.

If not they're likely corrupted.

I just wasted alot of time downloading childrens party songs via Limewire, only to find you can't import the mp3 files to iTunes.

What version of itunes are you on? I downloaded some live Moxy Fruvous to 7.6 on my mac on Friday and they imported fine – file >…

It's good to have a boogie man…

I still believe it is unlikely to work.....

It almost doesn't matter anymore. It's tokenism as much as anything. Regardless it ain't gonna bring back the good old days that BPI etc would like to think it would, anymore than the RIAA lawsuits slowed down file sharing in the USA.…

War on music piracy

Rudd porn filter fails: experts

Web porn software filter takes biggest hit

I still believe it is unlikely to work.....

not if you're a radiohead fan looking for interesting treatments in the same vein as the band. this is just rap over backing tracks. "every breath you take" any one?

Actually some of these are quite well done and the reviews are have been very good. This sort of thing,…

so everyone is happy again...it worked

not if you're a radiohead fan looking for interesting treatments in the same vein as the band. this is just rap over backing tracks. "every breath you take" any one?

clarification, give away of a reworking collection of 8 songs which was done without consultation with the band featuring the original songs chopped up with embellishments.

main legal issues here are no songwriting royalties to the band, sampling clearance issues.
the band originally responded with a cease and desist order,…

Including Radiohead letting someone give away their album all over again.

clarification, give away of a reworking collection of 8 songs which was done without consultation with the band featuring the original songs chopped up with embellishments.

main legal issues here are no songwriting royalties to the band, sampling clearance…

actually there have been some pretty big developments

Including Radiohead letting someone give away their album all over again.

Danielle...My Love...in the words of the the great anonymous pop punter..its a choon....esp the DFA mix which was extended pop heaven

Could there be a more apt epitaph for this thread?

actually there have been some pretty big developments in the stemming of piracy, DRM etc in the last few weeks (british govt moving to require ISPs to address piracy, company adding DRM to pirated content, etc), but feel free to…

So they fill the air with noise, meaningless entertaining noise.

Could there be a more apt epitaph for this thread?

thunderously

smirk

you're far too difficult, its over.

Whether or not you would hypothetically date my 'gullible' and 'undemanding' ass is thunderously irrelevant to this discussion, dude.

Also, thank you, Peter!

it almost sounds like you are wishing for the collapse of pop music distribution yourself!

I'll leave it to the house music 'punks' to do that.
I personally don't have a problem with mass music, I just don't confuse the product with the at, not saying there isn't some art…

Lie to me, pop-music-makers. I'm cool with it.

wasn't that what I was doing?
why so irritated then.
you're far to difficult, its over.

It's not that I'm 'undemanding' – on the contrary, I'm very demanding of my music – but I think what I want from that music is rather different from what you want. Often, I'm about feel and beats…

the odd gem hidden within' the pop machine.

not confusing the machine with the ingredients put into it.

and just used the voice as an extra instrument

sigur ros and occasionally the cocteau twins have nothing to say in words so they do just as you said, use the human voice as a instrument.

not so much entertainment as moving and beautiful, which is a statement in itself,…

the authenticity is almost irrelevant. If you feel something when listening to it, then it's authentic for *you*.

you're such a romantic, we should date.

and that since popular music is, fundamentally, all artifice,

where'd you get that notion from. all pop music means is that its popular, there's no…

It should be noted that I find plenty to connect with in all sorts of 'manufactured' music (I once wrote a giant rant listing all the things I adore about Justin Timberlake's 'My Love'), and that since popular music is, fundamentally, all…

So they fill the air with noise, meaningless entertaining noise.

Robbery.....it almost sounds like you are wishing for the colapse of pop music distribution yourself!

I have to say, over the last couple of years there has been a real jump in the quality and innovation in new music. and…

Nor do they care, they just want to be entertained.

Then of course there is that other lesser known almost fallen by the wayside use for music...
to communicate, to connect,

Allegedly in some distant corners of the world there are remote tribes that still use music to convey a…

why oh why when she asked you "do you think my songs are any good I was in true bliss etc"

actually the second TrueBliss album was gonna be Carly songs, and produced by Tony Moran, big NYC dance producer for the US market but she decided she wanted to…

ain't that the truth..the house revolution encapsulated the spirit of punk absolutely and to a degree the bedroom electronic thing still does

I remember going into a music shop on Haight St up near Golden Gate Park in the early 1990's. It was all house music. Shop was painted completely…

so we sold her contract to Festival who had the bucks to let her do what she wanted to do

so its your fault she siphoned of mountains of cash from nz on air producing radio pap and video clothes horse nonsense.

why oh why when she asked you "do…

And the playing on those early, 2 hit singles and a bunch of filler albums, ain't too hot, I agree.

Hey, I know "five albums" kind of overstates it a bit. ;)

yeah sure she did.......
all by herself. no help from anyone, burnt them all off individually on her laptop too,

No, she was adamant, almost fanatical that her first solo album was to be her work. It was recorded by her with Chris Van de Geer and she had control.…

Oh, come on! They played all instuments (though mostly not very well) on pretty much all of their first five albums ('62-'64). It was only about late '64 through mid-'67 that the Wrecking Crew handled almost all of the studio playing.

Yes, overstating though I'm thinking of the crucial period,…

Carly made here own records of course

yeah sure she did.......
all by herself. no help from anyone, burnt them all off individually on her laptop too,

One of things I really liked about early House was the idea of a generic band name recorded onto white label vinyl. It was totally punk, remove the poncey 'look at me' artist personality from the recording and just have the sound.

ain't that the truth..the house revolution encapsulated the…

you can sizzle a drummer?

well yes you can but more importantly a drummer can sizzle a hi hat in which ever way you tell them too, unless the sizzle nathan was referring to was the vinyl stylus combination.

I wonder if Nathan would mind me sampling his albums. like…

The Beach Boys didn't play on their records until 1967 (although Brian did create them)

Oh, come on! They played all instuments (though mostly not very well) on pretty much all of their first five albums ('62-'64). It was only about late '64 through mid-'67 that the Wrecking Crew handled…

I was going to say carly binding but you did say they were credible so that rules her out

Carly made here own records of course but Truebliss was mostly Anthony Ioasa (with added vox).

Nathan was and is ever the perfectionist (and one of the most inspiring people I've…

3 The Hard Way?
OMC?
Others Requiem?

nope, and that's all you get. Others Requiem did it pretty much all in their own studio and just added vocals and mixed the mighty fine result elsewhere

to get just the right moment of hi-hat sizzle to sample...

has he never heard of a drummer and a microphone?

drummers are kinda like drum machines although you only have to punch the info into a drum machine once.

I know of at least one 'credible' NZ album that was made when the artist was not present for much more than a few overdubs and the photoshoot.....
can we have another clue on the faker nz artist please.

3 The Hard Way?
OMC?
Others Requiem?
[[http://www.simongrigg.info/huhcat.htm|see here for list of…

or even worse, Pearl Jam *spits*

Ill spit to that. loath that band

I mean, look at them...seriously....

next thing you'll tell me the women in the Robert Palmer video (RIP) aren't his real band.

Thanks for explaining the Farian situation. if only he'd been better looking he could have mimed to his own music.

Lets also not forget that there are thousands…

a testament to the validity of the grammies (which have a glorious history of getting it oh so wrong).

As we know, A Taste of Honey ('Boogie Oogie Oogie') beat Elvis Costello for best new artist, 1978!

I only recently found out that Young MC (of 'Bust a Move' fame)…

FYI, Milli Vanilli won the 1990 Best New Artist Grammy over Tone Loc, Soul II Soul, Indigo Girls and Neneh Cherry.

therein lies the real crime, and a testament to the validity of the grammies (which have a glorious history of getting it oh so wrong).

Farian should have got the grammy himself, he was a master craftsman and still is.

The thing that struck me about Milli Vanilli's Grammy being taken off them was that it seemed to imply that Grammys are not just about the music, but also the videos and album covers and…

Gotta disagree with Mr Grigg on this one. I don't think the 'people' know that when Kylie, Madonna, Britney, et all get a song credit it's because their contract demands it.

Yep, I think I misstated that. Of course the kid with the iPod doesn't know the contractual intricacies of…

who made the videos of the two miming to the tracks and who authorised putting their muggs on the front cover? Was that the record company too with out farian's knowledge? I'd find that a little hard to swallow.

The cover was changed completely in the US. Vocal credits were…

pirate bay

"its the artists that are walking the plank while the pirates are stealing their treasure"

surely they could have got a parrot reference into that sentence…

no, because it was the record company in the US, Arista, who changed, without Farian knowing, the credits to include fake vocal credits,

who made the videos of the two miming to the tracks and who authorised putting their muggs on the front cover? Was that the record company too…

no, because it was the record company in the US, Arista, who changed, without Farian knowing, the credits to include fake vocal credits,

who made the videos of the two miming to the tracks and who authorised putting their muggs on the front cover?

by the time a usable working model of digital music distribution/consumption exists they may well be way past youffhood

can't argue with that.

The masses have spoken,

I wasn't asking the masses, I was asking the peole here as denoted by the first 2 words 'who here'

The only concert I went to last year was Pink

????

.....

how am I supposed to react to this admission???

.......she makes the baby jesus…

the consumer very much does give a toss, which might explain the public outcry and ridicule of the 'band' that made them a worldwide joke.
__
It wasn't worldwide Rob, it was American outrage and self embarrassment. Everybody else knew. Just as they know that Britney doesn't really write those…

it is a commonly used argument in the larger world, most often made by youff and one worth addressing.

by the time a usable working model of digital music distribution/consumption exists they may well be way past youffhood

:)